Greetings, I have an old 1450B crawler loader which has been sitting for a few years. I fired her up in the spring and early fall and she ran well those couple times. Now colder weather is here and she seems to be running out of fuel after 10-15 minutes run time. Changed out the primary and secondary fuel filters ran much better, but still seems to starve for fuel after 10 minutes... wont throttle up then eventually dies. I assume some junk is getting sucked into screens somewhere in the fuel system, causing this problem. Do any of you fine folks know, or have a diagram of where the screens are in the system? I was going to start at the tank and work my way forward, but I'm not sure what screens/pickups are in the tank and any help would be greatly appreciated. I see a large plug with a petcock on the bottom of the tank. I assume there is no lift pump on these? Unfortunately, I find myself having to do a small job on my property with it and cold weather makes troubleshooting troublesome. Thanks again for any help/advice/diagrams etc -George
I would suggest putting some Diesel kleen in the tank and blow air back to the tank
thx AllDodge, I put rescue 911 in the tank yesterday,that usually helps with the backhoe and triaxle dumps. I'm gonna try er out again shortly I had thought of doing the blowback thing, and will probably try that today, it may be enuff to at least get me the hour of runtime I need for now. Also instead of ripping in blindly, I would really like to find the location of any screens in this system too, up to including the inj pump-supposed to warm up here-I may bet ambitious and want to rip into them-probably not . The "list" is long, and winter is nipping at my heels-again-George
First, drain a little bit out of the petcock drain on the bottom of the tank and see what comes out. Water or dirt or just clean fuel? It shouldn't be waxing up at 30 but if you've had low temps closer to 0 then the filters can plug up with wax before the diesel warms up, especially with a large tank of fuel to warm up. I don't know Case, but every tank I've seen has a screen inside, that's where I'd start. IF there is a transfer pump, and it has a priming lever, you can use that to see if you can get it to start up again when it dies, and also tell where the blockage is by whether the priming pump is pulling a vacuum or pumping up.
You should have a drain under the fuel tank. You will need to remove the lower panel on the side of the injection pump. You should have a hand pump primer for the fuel system. You will find under it a glass bowl with a small screen and spring in it. more than likely it's full of crud. Take care loosening the bowl bail and tightening screw, more than likely the gasket that seals the bowl will be swelled and will be a pain to reseal after washing the screen. I will look in the shop later for a part number, (kit) from case that comes with the filter, spring, gasket. I think I have some in the bind. The adjusting screw on the bail will sometimes be striped, stuck, or just ready to break sometimes so have a plan to shut off the fuel if the shutoff valve does not work.
thank you all for the info- so far today I have removed the fuel line from the large fuel bowl-got some fuel from the line that I'm not too happy with and that bowl was crudded up pretty good. I have the fuel shut-off valve working,because it stopped the flow to that line. Tried to remove that small fuel bowl under the primer pump,and indeed as sheepfoot warned,it is being a real pain in the butt...that game was delayed until tomorrow due to darkness ,I sprayed a little PB blaster on the bowl tightening screw threads,got about a quarter turn back and forth but the bowl wants to spin with the screw. I assume it would loosen the same direction as the big bowl screw would?-I will get a better look in the morning. Oh yea, almost forgot tank drain petcock broke off in my hand, but the nut that holds petcock in is now loose and ready to drain-once I get a funnel/hose/holding tank rigged up. Anyone know the fuel capacity on these? I hate surprises with such things
oh, 1 more question, If I fill the spin on filters and the bowls are full , am I going to have a hard time getting a prime? I've heard these things can be a bear to prime after bowl drains. thanks again -George
The fuel tank holds around 65 gal. If the hand pump works you should not have a big issue. Does your machine have the pencil injectors or the screw in injectors?. You may have to bleed your injectors if it ran completely out.
That bowl kit is a 252793A1 bowl kit, it comes with the glass bowl, gasket, filter, spring. I pulled up Messick's and they sell for around $9.50 now. FYI if you needed it.
thanks for that part# sheepfoot I will pick one up , and thanks to everyone for all the help. I drained the tank, cleared the lines and cleaned out that front fuel bowl. She seems to be running very strong now..and not shutting off. It was warmer here today ...so I'm not sure if anything I did solved the shutdown problem, but she really is running much better. I would really like to believe I don't smell of diesel for nothing tho-my better half doesn't appreciate the fragrance Now for a couple questions. The hand primer is leaking where it screws into the casting , and it also leaked around the plunger top when I pumped it up. I don't make a habit off running stuff out of fuel, but I dont recall the leaking while pumping happening on my old macks(similar setup). What is supposed to seal the primer where it screws in? and can the whole primer be found for a price not requiring a secong mortgage? One more..while running is it normal to see a bit of air space above the fuel in that small bowl? am I sucking air thru the primer ? it occurred to me just today that even with all this equipment and trucks around me , I've never looked at the fuel bowls while machines where running. To be fair, most of them are well hidden. Let me know your thoughts on those leaks and solutions-thanks again-George
Sorry one more, on my machine, that front fuel bowl he tightening screw/thumbwheel is not attached to the retaining wire. It is simply a thumbwheel with a screw thru the bottom of it, and the straight slot of the screw just rides in the wire..making it very easy to disappear into the engine skid pan-esp if one is expecting the same arrangement as on the large fuel bowl. Is this a normal setup for those?
Your hand pump should be a 278866A1 pump around $30.00, and the copper seal 625550C1 at $3.00. Those hand pumps go to leaking once they have not been used in a long time and you use them, they will also suck air if they don't stop leaking. My other half has a joke when I get home, what's that new fragrance? Diesel #2 at $3.70 a gal and applied at $95.00 an hour, you keep saving my money!. And yes to the bail screw, some have a crimp to keep it with the bowl bail and many will not have a crimp and just have the slot and disappear out of your hand to never be found again. I would keep spare parts years ago when I did repair full time, I have made the screw before off the truck in a bind also.
The replacement pump from Case will be a self-contained little unit that you don't have to unscrew the top to pump it up and down. You just push on it. They seem to pump a lot better than the old style. One thing I liked about those older Case engines was the little plugs in top of the fuel filter housing. No question as to whether or not you had everything full.
Do you think it's a safe bet to order those part numbers,or should I call? I've been looking for my bill of sale for this unit for a few days now, so I can find my S/N-found info on everything I've ever owed..except that. It is an inline bosch pump . I was going to order the bowl kit, bail/screw kit and primer pump. Is there anyone online that has electronic parts catalogs? I tried Messicks online catalog , it doesn't seem to recognize 1450B. Man,I hate not having manuals and parts catalogs for this thing.....
Just go to your local ag dealer and ask for what you need, tell them to look up a Case 1370 or 1570. I could list more models(1070, 2470, 2290, 2390), I could go on and on. Case used the 504 in everything for years and years, ag and construction. I'm pretty sure the parts are the same on the 336, 401, and 451 engines, but to be sure just use the models I listed.
good to know. Looks like my local case ag dealer is 50mi away-ugh. Hoping to order online and just have it delivered. In the 2-3 hours it takes to go get that part in a nice warm car, I could be freezing my butt off and getting greasy and diesely working on something else-hmmm...
Please do not try to cheat and prefill the filters before installing, you stand a chance of putting dirt right into the area of the filter which has direct flow to the pump. Not all containers are clean and the fuel nozzle may have been dropped in the dirt the last time it was used. Install the filters dry and prime them with the normal hand pump procedure, that way all the fuel must flow through the filtering medium. This was stressed while I received my Case service training at the Racine training facility and makes perfect sense. You may get away with the other method most of the time but if you don't it could cost thousands in injection pump work. Your mileage may differ.
thanks melben. I have however already filled the filters and fired her up. I understand the logic completely, and have though about that in the past when changing fuel filters. I do always have designated new, fresh ,strained fuel when doing this, and a clear container to dispense it from (not my normal fuel containers or transfer tank). Hopefully, this at least minimizes the potential for catastrophy. If you don't mind me asking,What part of PA are you from? I'm in SW PA, about 30miles south of Pittsburgh- George
Near Williamsport.
The BOSCH P# for the HP is> 2 447 010 038 and comes w/ a gasket.. Try "DCPCART.com" click on "industrial" on the left hand side.. its 10.00 [aftermarket] I replace them 100% on an overhaul and have 100's of used ones.. BUT I wont be back to work till next week or 2..
thanks for the info.Sweet price and I assume you've had good luck with them. Since you are a pump guy, I have to ask-do you happen to know of a hand primer that will work on a V-8 Mack('85 998cu in)? I have a mack Magnum here, and its a little tuff to get started after she sits a while. There is a plug in the "v" of the fuel pump where a primer should go. I cant think of the pump name at the moment abac? ambac? abscam ?its the v shaped one with 4 inj port per side. Sorry for going off topic moderators, but I just had to ask-George
American Bosch [AMBAC] and Robert Bosch {Bosch] are 2 different companys.. I DO have the P# of the HP for the V-8 but not off the top of my head.. But.. I DO remember they are NOT cheap..
Sounds right, nothing for that engine has been cheap yet . Any after aftermarket available I wonder? What would the fundamental difference be in any of the hand pumps/primers? to a layman such as myself, they all seem to operate the same and look the same...other than thread size/count. Anyway, if you find that part number at some point let me know-if you'd be so kind. many thanks for all your help-George
OK finally got my hand primer and copper washer. I do NOT have the other gasket though-the one that looks like it fits into the bottom of the handpump assy its item 19 part# A45342 in the online Case construction catalog. Does anyone know if that is supposed to be an o-ring ? or could be replaced by an off the shelf oring? if so, any idea of what size? Cant really tell from anything I have here. Cant believe I missed that. Thanks-George
Found the HP# for the Ambac V-8.. MP404760.. $59.05 list price from Ambac Are you talking about the oring seal between the glass bowl and the body?
thanks for that ambac HP#-No, its not the fuel bowl gskt ,the HP looks to have a copper gasket where it screws to the casting and they show a o-ring looking gasket down in the hole (bottom of the HP threads)where the HP screws into the small casting attached to side of the inj pump (same casting which the small fuel bowl attaches to the bottom of). I see a diagram that shows the HP screwing directly into the top of the inj pump also, but mine is on the side screwing into that separate little casting which is bolted to the side of the injector pump. Hope that makes sense -thanks