I haven’t found quite the same post, if this has already been addressed please point me in the right direction. Completely serviced my 1840, all filters and fluids. This includes fuel filters. I filled he filters before putting them on. The machine will not start, I did got it started one time with ether and it ran for 15 mins without issue, but it wouldn’t start after I shut it off. I bled at all the points before resorting to ether. When trying to prime the lever is stiff for about 7 pumps and then nothing. After sitting for about 20 seconds it is stiff again and pumps 7 more times. I pulled the fuel line off and it holds suction when holding finger on one end and sucking on the other. I will be getting new fuel line tomorrow. There is no apparent fuel leaks around the filters or line. Could the filters be leaking air around the seals? Or is this an obvious lift pump issue. Does this pump usually only get 7 pumps on the prime or is the lift pump bad? Any other things to check or try before replacing pump or filters? Once started the machine will run indefinitely without issue.
I don't know what injection pump is on that, or how it's shut off, so I'll let the experts handle that. If you have a diaphragm priming/transfer pump, which it sounds like if you have a lever, the pump only has resistance when pulling against a vacuum, or when fuel is moving. Once it pumps up to pressure, the diaphragm is held away from the lever and the lever only moves the tiny spring on the side of the pump. You can check this when you're bleeding a filter, as long as the fuel is flowing, it will have resistance. Or, plug the fuel supply to the pump with the bleeder open, and it will get even harder to pump. That part sounds normal. The pump still could be bad, but that part is normal. The filters could be leaking air around the seals, you'd notice air when bleeding the pump or filters though. Usually filters are on the pressure side of the pump, so that shouldn't be an issue. I'd look at the shut off, solenoid? lever?
So you are saying one check to make sure the pump is good is if I hold my finger over the end of the supply line and crack the bleeder on the filter housing the lever will stay hard? Also you say it’s normal for the primer to only stay hard for several pumps then it goes limp? I can feel and hear the solenoid clicking and the machine runs no problem once you get it started so the solenoid should be feeding the injectors.
No, I'm saying that will show you how the pump works and why it doesn't stay firm when you pump it. The pump going limp is normal. Easier way to show this: pump until it goes limp, with your other hand open a bleeder screw, the fuel should squirt out and slow down, pump the lever and it should have resistance and the fuel should squirt with each pump, right? close the bleeder and the lever will go limp when the pressure is pumped back up. Repeat until it makes sense if you want. This doesn't prove you're not sucking air somewhere, checking for air bubble in the return, or bleeder screws will show if there's air.
Which bleeder are u using on the inj. pump.?? U should be using the 1 by the name plate.. Loosen it & pump the HPrimer.. it should squirt a city block.. NOW TRY IT with the engine turning.. it should squirt a lot also.. Now tighten it or I SHOULD SAY, snug it back down.. Pull the throttle wide open.. Loosen ALL THE LINES AT THE INJECTORS & crank the engine till fuel squirts out & tighten.. It should fire off now.. Good luck..
I followed something else I read on here. Loosen the one on the filter housing tighten up when it flows out, loosen the bottom one on the inhector pump. Fuel flows out the bottom of the pump, then the top one on the injector pump. All while using the prime lever on the lifter pump. No fuel spraying a mile. The injector pump should be fine being that it isles and runs out fine once it’s started. Maybe it just needs to run longer? Delmer said the pumping several times is normal. Maybe replacing the line will help. Just baffled why nothing else changed aside from filters would cause a big issue.
REFILL the filters.. and I'll say it again... Loosen the bleeder by the NP & pump the h primer.. IF ITS WORKING it will shoot fuel a city block.. NOW TRY IT w/ the engine turning.. & tighten back up once it squirts fuel.. DO ALL THIS w/ the lines LOOSE AT THE INJECTORS.. IF ITS NOT squirting fuel w/ the HP & filters full.. its bad.. & the reason it "works good" once its started is> the pump has a supply pump in it.. its probably pulling fuel from the tank..NOT GOOD. The supply pumps are only 30.00..
Once it’s running is the injector pump capable of pulling fuel through the lift pump from the tank? Not arguing anything just trying to get a better feel for how this system works.
Never worked on this system, for the record, but remember the simple stuff. Check your old fuel filter(s) and see if one has a gasket missing. I have found out (the hard way) that they are hard to bleed, if they have 2 gaskets, where there should be one...
Don't take my word for it.. do the tests.... Dave> & no oring on the screw stem, happens a lot..
Yep, seen that a time or 2...
Crack the one NP? Is that the one on the filter housing? If so pumping the H primer, assuming that is the primer on the lift pump doesn’t produce a spray a city block. Mainly just a steady flow. “The pump had a supply pump in it ..... it’s probably pulling fuel from the tanks....not good” does that statement mean the high pressure pump has the ability to pull fuel on its own without the lift pump operating properly? I’m not arguing to let replacing the lift pump slow things down. Just trying to learn and have instances in the mental bank for future trouble shooting on other machines. I will replace the supply line and try bleeding everything again and sounds like calling the dealer on Tuesday. Thanks for the help. Any other insight chime in, it’s all a learning experience to see what manipulating abc does to xyz.
Thepumpguy said, use the bleeder screw by the Name Plate, NP, on the injection pump. Yes, the injection pump has a pump in it that pumps to medium pressure because the control of the injection is regulated by hydraulic pressure, pretty cool huh? it also will suck fuel and pressurize at the same time.
When priming the bleed screw at the injector pump - the ignition has to be in the run position.
Thanks alrman, I forgot that it has an electric sh/off solenoid.. Incase u didn't know, the electric sh-off solenoid shuts off the fuel entering the pumps pumping circuit.. SO YES.. THE KEY SHOULD BE "ON".. sorry for any confusion.. {like u needed any more,lol} 1 more note>> stop asking questions & go do it & report back..
Changed filters they both had the center o ring on them. Nothing. Changed line between tank and lift pump. Nothing. Changed lift pump. Nothing. Solenoid clicks when you turn key on and off. It wouldn’t run at all if the solenoid was bad or sticking would it? Anything on these wiring related that would cause this? Fixed some wires under the cab that were horribly spliced, just twisted together and wrapped in tape. So the only thing that was changed before issue started was fuel filters and wire splices.
You should check that you have 12V supply to the solenoid - while cranking.
12v with key on. 1v when cranking. Is this a ground issue then? If so any particular wire coming out of the loom to look at?
You could try testing with a jumper wire, to the ground of the battery. Also you could try same thing, with a hot to that lead of the solenoid. I would unplug the original harness, while making the checks with jumpers, though...
Yes, just hotwire it to see if it will start.
I will try hot wiring it. If it starts would I be looking at a ground issue? If so would that just be ground to the motor? Right now there is two grounds off the battery, one to the kickplate and one to the frame of the in front of the battery. Then a small wire from the frame to the motor. I always thatought that wasn’t a very good ground. I thought about putting a ground from the battery to like the starter mount bolts. The solenoid would only be ground through the pump and intern the motor believe.
I don't think this is going to end up being a ground, the injection pump is aluminum and bolted to the engine, just like the starter. If the starter had 1v it wouldn't be cranking very fast. Look upstream to the supply wiring to the solenoid, like any relays, cracked wires, wiring harness connectors, fuse holders, or the ignition switch itself. This is where I'd look, somebody might be able to tell you where they've had this problem on this machine. Hotwire it first and confirm your problem first obviously.
Welp. Feel like an idiot. Should have gone back to the wiring. Crossed two wires in the plug. Thanks a lot for all the replies appreciate the help.
She runs???
yep should have started going straight to my work. At least got an old crappy fuel line changed and a 25 year old lift pump changed while I wasn’t in the middle of needing it.