Well after reading some old threads and absorbing some great info there within, I decided to change out the belt and rad hoses. Ordered them though the local Case dealer, and then started to installing them. The belt was rough to say the least....might even be the original! Got the rad out and hoses off and noticed that the T-stat was broken. So ordered another 180* cummins T-stat....not a fan of the aftermarket T-stat's in cummins engines....the temps tend to start swinging once they get up to operating temperature. Took them over a week to get me the T-stat, when they said it would be here next day! And of course during that delay the temps have dropped down to -28*C or colder. While I was waiting I also installed a block heater while I had the motor drained. And pulled the old diaphragm lift pump and installed a "new'er" unit from one of my 5.9L cummins motors. Got the T-stat today and started re-assembly...outside (no shop at the new house yet), highs of -24*C at the house today..... Finished up and plugged the block heater in....works great! Let it warm up for an hour or so and tried to fire it off.....old starter does not like the cold (think it needs a rebuild), had to use my 1st Gen crewcab to jump it. Once I got it started it was running rough, but let it idle for about 10-15 min....then slowly and carefully ran the hyd system through their cycles a couple times. BTW I have not had time to service the Hyd system yet, was waiting for the Hyd filter to show up and it got cold during that time. So it looks like I have a lot of water in my Hyd system, the sight glass on the Hyd tank shows over 2" of white foamy contaminated oil, and the LH main drive motor will not turn....guessing it has water in it and it's froze up. So will have to wait for the weather to warm up a bit, then try and get it to move so I can get it into the garage and warmed up. Any advice on flushing the Hyd system to get all the contaminated oil and water out?
Thanks for the update. Sounds like a good job done. I wonder if a guy could attach a long hose onto a suction gun, insert it to the bottom of the hyd tank and draw some or all of the water out (on an above-freezing day) to get you buy until you can service it properly? Let it sit enough for the water to settle out before trying it. I've had to do stuff like that before on other equipment. Not ideal but works in a pinch.
Thanks for the advice...Might be worth a try. Doubt I will be getting too many "above freezing" days up here until spring though. Was talking with my boss about the hyd system last night and he suggested building a tent/enclosure structure around the machine with tarps, then use a tiger torch to warm the structure, and machine up. Think this is a really good way to get it thawed and hopefully be able to get the water contaminated fluid flushed from the system.
If you have enough water in the hyd's it's milky, you're risking your entire hydraulic system starting it in super cold temperatures.
The extent of the water wasn't visible before the start up, there was only a little bit on the sight glass, not enough to concern me. After start up and running though.... Thank you for the advice.....I will not be running it again until I get thawed and above freezing.
Best to drain it when warm, at operating temp. If you run it hard, get it hot, take a wrench, and just loosen the plug, you will find that the water will slip through the threads of the plug, and drip out, before you hit oil. I would do this as a stop-gap measure, till you get a warm enough day, to change all the oil...:idea
Thank you for the advice...but I don't plan on starting it until I can get it tented and warmed up to above freezing. Then will drain and run fresh hyd oil and filter for a little bit, then drain and change filter and fluid once more. I want to get as much water out of the system as possible. Rather spend a few dollars more on filters and fluid then risk damaging the parts and pieces in the Hyd system from water. Ahhh the joys of older equipment with unknown history.....
I'm sure you know this, but for the sake of others who may read this post later, the specified hydraulic fluid for this machine is 10W-30 motor oil. All the oils the machine uses under normal conditions is 10W-30, for simplified maintenance (except the gear lube in the 2 drive motors). Also, don't forget to go to the Case dealer and get the appropriate amount of HTO additive. One quart treats 5 gal of motor oil -- for the hydraulic system only. I've read that, among other things it does, the HTO inhibits foaming. I wonder if it's possible that was the foam you were seeing in your tank? Hard to say, not being there, oil generally gets milky with water in it. Foam on the top seems like low HTO possibly. I've always used it in my machine so I haven't been down that road but I've read a few old posts in other forums guys say it will/can foam up w/o it. Maybe that's all your system needs ...a shot of HTO? A lot of guys forget to add that stuff. Do some reading up on it. Good luck, keep warm!
Thank you for the advice Jeepwalker....I will look into it, the foaming or white was on top....so you might be right about the foaming. Still concerned that the LH drive motor wouldn't turn. Since I did not know what fluid to use in the Hyd system, especially up north here, I spoke with a knowledgeable individual who has been running machines up north for years. He recommended a general tractor hyd fluid (TGH) for my machine. Said it would give me a wide temperature range for safe operation.
As Jeepwalker said with the foaming at the top its not water, put in some HTO additive maybe 2 quarts. The left drive motor could be the motor itself or the controls. Steve
The LH motor was working fine until the super cold weather got here. You can here the main drive pump trying to sending fluid to the motor, but it just makes that high pitched whine, and no movement. Hoping it is water in the system.... ...And a good flush and new fluid and filter will solve that issue.
Well, how cold is it getting outside when you are using it (not the lowest temp at night)? A couple possibilities might be the motor getting foam not fluid, or, it's not uncommon for the chain to freeze up if there's a little water in the chain case on that side. Or maybe a sticky control valve. Worth checking the level of gear lube in those motors if you haven't already. I seem to remember a qt bottle was enough for both sides. Maybe a guy could run synthetic gear oil in the drive motors?? Just some ideas off the top of my head...
Well I just cleaned and put fresh (used) oil in the chain cases, and cleaned and "hopefully" sealed up the inspection covers. But with all that it is still possible that water has gotten into the LH chain case and froze up the chain.....I thought of that as a possibility. Guess no way to know for sure unless I pull the cover off. As for foaming....wouldn't the other circuits be affected in the same way? All the other rams and the RH drive motor all worked fine. Once I get it thawed and fresh Hyd oil and filter, I will see what happens then. I do appreciate the advice and suggestions though....always good to have lots of potential culprits....
Just an out of the blue question. Any chance the parking pin is stuck or out of adjustment on the left side? If the cable or linkage was not working it would cause this kind of problem. Maybe something as simple as a broken cable or the pin froze in it's guide. Have you tried to work the control back and forth a little to see if it will pop free. Many times if you only try to move in one direction the pin will be held tight and machine not move. There should be a spring on the cable that lets you move the safety lock out to the run position even if the pin is under tension. Then when you gentily rock the machine one way or the other the pin should pop out of the gear and let you move. Do NOT try forcing the machine to move if these pins are under tension. I have seen a couple where the bushings the pins are in have been torn right out of the frame! Maybe pull up the floor boards under your feet and remove the seat to check for dirt and mud/ice down in where these pins are located. Should be rubber boots with the cables going through them. I'm attaching a link that should take you to a page showing the breakdown on this parking brake system, note it seems to be slow loading tonight!: http://www.colemanequip.com/Case-1845C-Uniloaders-Skid-Steer-Loaders-Parts/Brakes-4c/PARKING-LATCH-SEAT-BAR-DUAL-JAF0040228-JAF0103651-nFYz/?&o=1#partdiagrams
That's a good suggestion (pins). They do tend to stick or get iced up in the cold. The nice thing about the pins is normally you can hear them 'click' when they disengage so ya know they're unlocked. But easy to miss.
The pins are good....I had the LH side all froze up earlier with water, so I pulled the boots and cleaned and lubed everything, and re-adjusted the linkage and cables....so they are working fine. That was my initial thought, so I pulled the seat and checked that the pins were moving. Thank you for the thought though.:thumbsup
Just an update on what the LH motor, and no movement problem turned out to be. I eventually figured out that it was most likely water in the planetary that was causing my problem. If I heated the planetary with a heat gun for 5-10 min it would eventually move. I decided that I didn't need to use the Case all that much over the winter so i let it sit most of the time and figured I would change the fluid out once spring got here and temps were more favorable for working outside. So the last couple days I got some work done on the machine. Yesterday I changed the Hyd fluid and filter....smelly stinky dark fluid drained out, with a bit of gooey water laced gobs.....who knows how long it's been in there. Then today I finally got around to changing the fluid in the LH/RH planetaries. The RH side the fluid was black as tar, and thick and smelly, and the LH side had about a cup of water in there, then gooey brown fluid drained out....smelly and stinky as well. I put some 15W40 in there to run for a couple weeks, then will drain that out and put some more fresh fluid in. Also crawled around and greased everything. What type of fluid do you guys run in the planetaries....my service manual says about 0.5L ( 1 US pint) of 10W30 per side.
Just my opinion that if the book calls for 10W30, if you don't have that the 15W40 should be fine. I'd just try working it good and hard and drain while warm a few times. Or another option if it is taking some time for all the water and thick stuff to come out fill them with fuel oil and run around a bit to stir it up and then drain. Do this a couple times till it comes out clean then put the 15W40 back in.
A lot of guys run 80W 90 gear lube in them. I believe on the older ones that's what they specified. When I drained mine that's what came out. Mine looked pretty good and clear, but one side was a little low. Anyway, I've been running gear lube in mine (1989 machine).
10w30 goes in the chain cases. My manual calls for 80w90 gear oil in the planetarys. That's what I've always heard and used.
OK, I dug out my 1845 book and it says: JI Case part No. B53983 or Amercan MP Gear Oil Did a Google on "American Gear Oil" and found this: Product Description : MP GEAR OIL is a multi-purpose sulfur-phosphorus type hypoid gear lubricant meeting requirements of API Service Classification GL-5. GL-5 is just your basic gear oil like 80W-90 But if it is a bit contaminated I would still start with the fuel oil flush followed by say 15W-40 flush and then once it looked clean go with fresh 80W-90. What I always liked doing when flushing chain compartments on skid-steers was to raise machine up using the bucket and put large blocks under the frame and then lift bucket up slightly. If done right this will get all four wheels of the ground at once and you can spin wheels with no load on anything while using the fuel oil to flush things out.
Just curious, is that for an 1845 or and 1845C?? My 1845C manual specifies: Case Gear Box Fluid, Part No B53983 SAE 90 EP Low Foaming API GL-4
Thank you for the information and advice. I had not thought of running some diesel/oil mix to help clean things out. I will run the 15W40 a few more days then drain that, then add a 50/50 mix of 15W40 and diesel....then run up and down the driveway a few times, if it looks clean then I will add the gear oil.
One thing I did think of after posting the ideas of flushing. How did the nasty stuff get in there in the first place? Point is you may have some bad seals that are not keeping the nasties out. Might be something to think about and if there is a time when you don't need this machine I'd be thinking hard about removing and resealing the drives. A bit of work and money but might save in the long run.
Well the nasty black that came out of the LH side is most likely due to never being serviced.....I had a 727 tranny in an 87 D250 truck that had never seen a service dept, or had been decades since the last service. The fluid that came out of there was rusty brown and thick and chunky, and was the worst smelling fluid I have ever drained out of a piece of equipment. The black goo was a close second. I did several fluid and filter changes on that 727 over the following year and it never missed a beat. The water leaking in on teh RH planetary is most likely due to the several gallons of water that were mixed in the RH chain case with the white lithium grease. Must have Worked it's way past the inner seal. Once I have a heated shop/garage, building one this year so hope this coming winter....I will probably pull a bunch of stuff apart, drive axle assemblies, planetaries (now) and clean, repack, and replace seals, bearings etc as required.
Yes the manual I have is for the older 1845/1845S, should have noted that in my reply.
Well I was using the Case today to pull cut trees out of the bush, so after a few hours of work I decided to drain the planetaries and see what the fluid looked like. Bit better....the RH side which was black tar-ish before, flowed out good but was still black as night. The LH side which had several cups of water in it when drained the first time was now just oil, but was "coffee with two cream" colour. But some clean 15W40 in it again and will run it for a couple weeks and drain again. Also installed a seat belt, since the original one was long gone. Just a lap belt for a 80's dodge ram. And then spent several hours trying to get the gauge cluster apart....the machine thread screws were just slipping in the weird rubber/brass inserts. Eventually had to drill the heads out of the screws, then install clips for regular screws. While I was in there I pulled apart all the electrical connects, cleaned and lubed everything and re-assembled.
Like it says on the bottle of shampoo, wash rinse and repeat! Might take a couple time but sounds like you are gaining on it!