My father in law passed away recently and had this Case 580. The starter has always been sketchy for the last 20 years, grinding once and a while. Now it grinds a 100% of the time when trying to turn it over. Cannot find a year anywhere in this machine in order to grab a starter online. Any thoughts?
Wlcome toHEF, kramerv ! It was made in 1970. Is it a gasoline or diesel engine ? Take off the old one you have and carefully coubt the number of teeth on the pinion drive. It will have either 9 or 10 teeth. It is super important your new starter has the same number of teeth.
Hey thanks. I did find some info here on the forum after I posted so thanks for not blasting me for not searching the forum 1st. It is a diesel and I think my problems began with letting it run low on fuel...now I have air in the lines and then killed the starter trying to start it. I probably qualify for a prize on the forum here. I will pull the starter and check the tooth count. Thanks.
Also, I charged up the battery just for thr heck of it and now the starter just spins instead of grinding. Wonder of its the solenoid not pushing the starter gear in place.
Most likely the solenoid. Anyone near you that rebuilds starters ?
I'll pull it this week and see if I can find a shop. I've seen some replacement starters online but it's tough to nail down which one fits my tractor and they're priced awfully cheaply so I'm concerned that they're garbage.
Ok I got it out and I ran it on the bench. Pinion is thrust forward with significant force. The shaft moved in either direction when I spin it by hand and it's smooth. However, the pinion spins on the shift freely and in both directions. That's not normal is it? I thought there were clutches in there to prevent that? Good news is flywheel rung looks fine.
It needs a new Bendix Drive. I would advise you to replace the solenoid also.
Thanks. I found a shop locally and will be dropping it off today.
Ok got it in today and .... it works...sort of lol. I connected the battery, turned it over and it started on the first crank. And then kept cranking until I disconnected the battery. Connected it a few more times and it sometimes does it and sometimes it's normal. If I disconnect the negative the cranking stops and the backhoe will run. Two possibilities? The starter solenoid is bad ( not the new on the starter) or it's connected incorrectly. The new solenoid on the starter has two large posts and two small. The old starter had only one small post. I connect the starter with the ignition wire going to the post which was in the same orientation as the old solenoid that was replaced. Any thoughts?
Wrong solenoid. It should still work. There should be letters by the 2 small posts. I and s. I is for a gasser ignition. Make sure it is hooked to the s. Sounds like bad solenoid or low battery/ bad conection.
Which solenoid is bad, the one on the starter? Thanks
Whoa ! Are you saying there are two solenoids in the circuit ???? Has one like this been wired into the circuit ???
Yes there is a solinoid like this towards the rear of the block and the one mounted to the top of the starter. Is this bad lol?
Similar to the solinoid at 2:53.
Yes it is bad, if it is wired into the starter circuit. The one in the video is ok for energizing the intake manifold air heater. That is how they came from the factory.
Ok I think I may have found the problem. I split the solenoid when I torqued it too much. I have a spare so we'll see
I have never seen that happen. Could you post a picture of it ??
Yeah so that other solenoid is for the intake. Not related. So I think I either damaged the starter solenoid of it was bad from the factory. When I pull the battery terminal it stops cranking and if it tried to crank once the terminal was reconnect (with the key off) it would be a wiring issue. So sounds like the solenoid is staying energized. Here is a pic
About that prize............ Joe H
I knew that was coming lol.
Thanks for the photo. Yes that is a lost cause for that solenoid. There really isn't any need for that nut between the the base of the stud and the cable. The cable will be less likely to rotate without it when tightening the outer nut. It is a good practice to hold the cable from rotating when you are tightening the nut on it. It also eliminates any twisting forces on the stud. Could you post a photo of the end of the solenoid that would show the wire connections on it ?
Front and top.
The cable/wire terminals need to be shined up when you replace the solenoid.
Yeah some if the wires are not in the best shape so I'm going to replace them tomorrow. The good news is I had ordered a new starter online before I had this one rebuilt and it came about an hour ago. Threw it in and we're all good. No issues like the rebuit. One thing I did notice when putting this one in is that the steel power steering lines were touching the case of the solenoid. Just barely so I put a plastic sleeve over it. I didn't notice if that was the case with the rebuilt one. Or maybe the new solenoid on the rebuilt was just bad? It's fine when I bench tested it but I'll replace the solenoid I broke and see if that does it. The newnone I bought does seem a little cheap and smaller so ill get the rebuild squared away at some point. But for now I'm good. Thanks for the help.
A lot of shops are rebuilding with cheap Chinese parts, and I have had issues with solenoids being bad new, and acting like this.