Well we fianlly got the backhoe running on all 4 and it sounds great. Thanks to all who helped. Now that it is running a couple of other problems reared their ugly head. We checked the fluid on the front planetaries and found one dry and rusty, how it didn't blow up when I was driving it is a big question, but all parts were unbroken and some were reuseable. I took the outside part off and cleared everything replacing the needle bearings and pins, gears were okay, got lucky there! However, I can't seem to get the sun gear off it's splined shaft. Tried heat guns, penetrating oil etc, guess it will just take time and patience. I am afraid that a slide hammer puller will do damage further inside, but I don't know. Any other ideas about this sun gear will be appreciated. I have a feeling Case won't let me buy just one of those gears. Secondly, as I was trying to get the boom pulled back and into the lock, it stopped about 3 inches from the lock and the bucket started to curl? I called Case about a new spool for the valve, sorry not available, but they would happily sell me the single replacement valve for $1600+USD. That's not for the whole valve to run the backhoe, just the single going to raise and lower the boom. I know I shouldn't be surprised when I talk to the dealership parts guy, but that price seems close to robbery. Is there anyone who sells an aftermarket spool? How about anyone that can rebuild it? Or is it just out of adjustment and I can fix this in 10 minutes (please)? Thanks again for all the help and information, Most of our machines are painted a different color than yellow. These yellow machines have a personality all their own, but I'm learning.
Boots, Say I'm not the one to give you any advice on your sun gear but maybe on your boom locking problem I have an idea. You probably already know this but I need the typing practice. When locking the boom on a case backhoe, the operator needs to raise the boom at half throttle plus and at basically the end of the travel for the boom lift, push the boom lift lever into the down function rapidly and boom will ( go over center if you will) and lock. If memory serves me correctly, there was a thread on this very problem but I can't find it. Good luck. Joe
sun gear/boom lock Never saw a sun gear that tight in a D, would soak it some more with pena, may have some spline over run on the gear, migh. try large brass drift tap alittle on each side of the gear tooth, I would tho use a puller /slide hammer also, where was the oil leak planit cover or in the steering side,have seen alot of leaks do to loose wheel studs/nuts. As far as the boom lock there is a method to lock it in transport mode as well as release it!! rpm around 1/4, raise boom with speed,it has to travel just past your area where it is stoping, then reverse lever two change the oil flow to bring it over center to lock, to take out of transport push lever to lower it, boom will raise, release handle and hold, move lever control back boom will go to the over center point, release lock to normal , control levers will be at reg pattern, takes some work the first time then you can do it at idle most of the time. I would do more checks before the valve replacement, did the bucket curl only when the boom stoped or was it moving while boom lever was moved, long cotter pins, linkage binding, load checks, tash in system, are the cylinder barrels damaged on the boom cylinders
The boom lock/unlock procedure is the Case operator's equivalent of the "secret handshake". If the only control input was to the boom, and the bucket began to curl though, I would think there's some problem in the hoe valving. I'm not mechanically sophisticated enough to say whether it's just in the boom valve, or something common to the whole assembly, or something just in the bucket valve, but I think I'd nail it down before spending money swapping out just one part of the whole thing.
The overcenter on the boom is a bit of a trick till you do it a couple times, then old nature, as the other man described, use some throttle, bring the boom up rapidly, just as it gets to the top, throw the lever the other way and it will come over center. As far as the bucket problem, I would replace the secondary relief valve orings and the o rings on the check valve plugs under them. Please use oem orings as they are special material. There are secondaries and check valve plugs top and bottom. You have to make a special tool to remove the lower plugs, grind a 3/8 capscrew head thin, like 1/16 inch appx. and flat two sides of it so you can drop it down in the slot in the check plug ,turn it 90 degrees and lift the lower plug out and see if the o ring is even there any more. make the bolt 3-4 in long as you will be reaching down in the valve. All the sections should be checked top and bottom for gone orings, there is more of a chance of this than a bad section, while at that age anything is a possibility, especially if something foreign went through the valve and marred the interior lands. The bucket section is the first one to look at since that is being affected by high pressure in another circuit. Mel
when I have to explain how to store the boom I tell them to bring it up until it touches the lock up teeth and then push the stick forward
Yeah, the boom lock takes a little getting used to. Feels like the boom is gonna come though the back glass and smash your face, but it never does.
Thanks for the very interesting info Melben. I'm definitely going to save that text. I have a B that swings a little when the boom is raised. Phil
Thanks for the input. The previous owner showed me "Case secret handshake", (funny digger242j). I've tried that, but the boom doesn't travel far enough or fast enough to get over center. The boom comes close to the lock, stops and the bucket starts to curl. I will try it again with more rpm. I think I'll have to dig into the book and find out where the secondary relief valve and start replacing "O" rings. I do have a follow up question for Melben, if I can't buy spools, how can I buy OEM "O"rings? Does anyone rebuild these valves? Checked with Case about buying a new Sun gear, when will I learn. Case wants $500.00 before freight ointhead and it is not a large gear;guess they want people to buy new machines. I think we will have to take off the whole end of the axle from the king pins out and put it in a press. It is really stuck, and that seems like the best idea so far.
It's a rather quick motion, once the boom gets to the lock you should be pushing forward which will bring it back and lock it. If the bucket is curling then that's a no no, it's not supposed to do that at all.
Yes you will have to get the bucket curl problem fixed first. Do you have a service manual? I had an E once and it was very difficult to lock the boom on it until I fixed the badly worn tower bushings. Had to find a steep grade to back it up on. Phil
Boots, the spools and their bodies are machined together to provide the close tolerances to keep the systems from creeping down. To light a spool fit will allow oil to seep by and cause the drifting down, The spools are almost without exception not available without their bodies. If you have a dealer closeby just go ask for secondary relief valve orings and backup rings and check valve orings. There is a whole lot of difference between the spool and rubber parts for the valve. If you don't mind paying shipping charges I will fix you right up, we use only case supplied O rings.Send me your phone number. [email protected] .
Update on the on the never ending story..:Banghead Took the whole axle end off. Took out the kingpins and put the whole thing in the press and got the sun gear free...now outer hub us stuck to inner hub, bonded by yet another splined gear. Problem now is I can't figure out how to get any of this into the press. and I truly believe it will need the press. Thing is on it's end bathing in penetrating oil right now, but I haven't had any luck with the penetrating oil so far. Worried about damaging the outer hub in the press,if I can figure a way to get it in a press. Due to recent experience, Case will probably want $30-$40,000 for the hub casting. Any ideas on pressing the two halves of the outer hub apart without damage? Thanks
Boots I have read your posts and have to agree with you on prices of parts. Since there is little or no source for most parts other than OEM they can get away with charging aerospace one of kind prices for mass produced items. They probably sleep very well at night!
I've never worked on a Case 4X4 front axle. I think I would be taking the whole assembly to someone who has worked on one of these for advice. I have found most service managers will shed a tear sooner or later and let you talk to a mechanic who has experience in that area. Even if you have a pretty good idea how it comes apart, these parts sound too expensive to be taking chances.Picture? Phil
I checked the price of the sungear, you dealer is helping himself to a cool 25% over list if he quoted you $500.00 The hub is shown in the service manual being pressed apart as you assumed. To bad you have that kind of a dealer, we are content with list on sales of that dollar amount. Mel
I got quite a few planetary parts for a Rockwell axle once from these people. Sun gear was cheap($61.00) as were the other gears. If you knew who made the axle for Case, maybe all they need is a description of the gear. Phil http://www.lmpowertrainparts.com/home.html
Finally got the 2 halves of the hub apart:thumbsup thanks for the advice. Now lots of clean up and new seals and bearings. Can now see the light at the end of the axle. As soon as it can move under it's own power again, I'm going start on the curling bucket. Thanks so much Melben about the cost of parts. I found a dealer in Texas that I will try next. I wish I had found out about the parts supplier in Denver a few parts orders ago. Case should set some guidelines, those kinds of prices will send people to Cat to get the bargains
Boots, please drop your e-mail and phone # to my juno account. [email protected] . Thanks in advance. Mel
580K Backhoe Bucket Problem The backhoe bucket on my case 580k doesn't want to curl. It will only move about one foot in each direction. I unhooked both lines to the cylinder and ran the engine at a high rpm. Fluid shoots out of each line and seems to have plenty of pressure however, when I hook the lines back up I still have the same problem. HELP! Does anybody have an idea of what could be causing this problem and how I can fix it? THANKS! Charlie
Have you checked to make sure the area's of the hinges are clear of debris and the frams are not bent? Also check the pins and bushings to make sure they are well greased and not causing what would need to be alot of stress?
580K Backhoe Bucket Problem thanks for the suggestions. Have tried all. Any other suggestions?
HK Check cyl. for damage- dent in body. bent rod Be very careful of pressurized oil & exposed body parts Connect one hose and see if will work- this is messy as cyl. stores oil in which ever end is not under pressure
K965312 sun gear Hi booth if you need a good used gear I have one for sale. jc [email protected]
580K Backhoe Bucket Problem Fixed Thanks to all who tried to help out with this problem. Ended up having to take the cylinder in and have all the seals changed. They also found a loose bolt inside. $300 later everything works great! Thanks again.
thanks for the nice word Phil nice to hear from you jc marleau
The nearest Case dealership is about 60 miles from me, so if I need a part and don't want to drive I just order it from Messicks. They have an outstanding online parts store, shipping is reasonable, and you won't pay any state sales tax if you are outside of Pennsylvania. Don't expect any screaming deals, they do charge full retail. Hope this helps you out on your 580, it saved me some trouble last winter when I tore down my craptastic Case 1835C skid steer to rebuild the engine, replace some lines and fix a few other problems. http://www.messicks.com/tractorparts.aspx Also, if you have not done so already I would add CASE to you favorites. All parts manuals are available online for free. http://www.casece.com/services/NAE/services.asp?RL=NAE&id=33