Ok, I recently bought a new to me 580 SE which appears to be in pretty good shape. 3,500 hrs on the meter. Hydraulics appear to be pretty strong, few small leaks. The only thing that has me puzzled on it is when I pull a control lever, like lets say raise the boom with a pretty good load on it, the boom raises but some of the other hydraulic cylinders move as well!!!! Usually it will swing a little most of the time, but I have also even noticed the front bucket lift! Do have I have control valve issues or what? I would like to tackle this problem myself but hopefully its not too expensive to fix. It seems to dig fine but is annoying when doing "crane" work. Thanks!
You have what I call the ghostys. The seals on the load checks in the control valve are blown on a few or all of the circuits. The load checks are in the loader and backhoe control valve sections under the port relief valves. I would suggest resealing the port reliefs and load checks. It is not to bad of a job but you might need to make a tool to pull some of the load checks if they are tight. Would attach pictures but I cant get into the Case website right now for some reason. It would also be a good time to check the pressures on the port reliefs.
Here ya go Goose.
Thanks Willie. The seals you will find blown are item # 20 on item # 19. You will also want to replace # 22,23,and 24 on item 21. The section shown is the loader lift, which only has plugs # 21 but all the other sections will have relief valve in place of the plugs except for the extendahoe if you have it.
Here's a pic of tool to be made to remove load check valve - 3/8" x 3" It goes in to slot & turn 90deg to hook valve to pull out. The seals on this valve are different to yours - (later model), but valve looks same but has a single oring which is opaque/white in colour, very hard duro. You may need to purchase genuine.
Dang, the Case techs showed up big time tonight! :drinkup
I want to know why Alrman has pictures of parts and tools at the ready to post so quickly?
lmao!
If starwillie can do it so can I! :lmao
Naw, ya got me whupped on that one bro.
cfw3, I believe everything willie59 and alrman are telling you. I have a JD 310D that the loader would raise and the loader bucket would curl all by it self while I was using the backhoe. I replaced all the o-rings and seals in the loader control valve and the problem is repaired. Good luck.
Hey, don't forget Goose, he's the one who spoke up first.
Oh my dear. AND Goose for sure!!!
Wow! I know everybody likes pictures so here is one of the ghosty backhoe! Thanks guys! :notworthy:notworthy I am overwhelmed by the response! Also I am relieved as I was worried it might involve replacing pricey spool valves. Seals aren't too bad. I'm guessing it will be easiest to unpin the hoe from the machine to get to the valve body? This machine has an extend-a-hoe and it has an optional hydraulic accessory valve which has been disabled. There is a lever on the left hand side of the hoe controls which is only identified with "LOCK" with an arrow. Down by the swing cylinders there are two hydraulic hard lines which have been cut off. I'm guessing it was set up to run a breaker? Still trying to get used to the Case control pattern but getting better! Thanks again!
Sorry cfw3, my experience is on side shift machines - can easily be done with valve still fitted. Not sure about centre mount. What I do know is if you remove the hoe to do this job & pull the secondary reliefs to get to the load checks - the hoe will collapse if not supported properly. Be sure about what you are doing! - Goose will know how to go about doing this safely. BTW - don't mix up the positions of the secondaries as they are set at different pressures.
You dont need to dismount the hoe. You can get all the reliefs out pretty easy with a 1 1/4 socket and open end wrench with a little bit twisting of your arm to find how your second elbow works. Like alrman said make sure you have the hoe and loader collapsed and all the pressure relieved. I will usually unhook the supply and return line to the hoe at the quick couplers so you dont have oil running all the time the valves are out.
orings you will have to move the boom from side to side to access the secondaries and check plugs from the bottom but done with the hoe in place. The ghost movers are the ones with blown orings, do em all but get OEM Case orings and Backup rings as needed. they are in a high pressure/ temperature enviorment. Mel
OK- thanks for the info guys. I took a look and I see that removing the hoe doesn't help make this job any easier. One thing I'm not clear on still. Should I reseal the relieve valves when I pull them out? Can I do that without messing up the relief pressures? I want to make sure I get this job done right the first time. I am planning on pulling all the check valves and resealing them. If I understand correctly, there are 8 check valves on the hoe and 2 on the front loader, right? Thanks
Yes go ahead and reseal all the check valves and the outside of the reliefs. Dont bother taking apart the reliefs to replace the 2 orings on the inside. If you have extendahoe you will have 8 reliefs on the backhoe and 2 plugs on the extendahoe and a total of 10 load checks. The loader will have 2 reliefs on the bucket, 2 plugs on the loader and a total of 4 load checks. If you have a 4 in 1 bucket you will have 2 more reliefs and checks in that section also.
Thank you Goose and all the others who have been of great help to me on this. As I sit here on this snowy October night (8 inches and counting, its too early for this stuff) I have one other issue which I am not sure how to approach. The machine has wet brakes which work well, although I am not happy with the amount of stroke it takes to apply them. They grab approx 3 inches from the floor, with I guess 6 inches of travel before getting there...too much imo. Is there any adjustment here? They are firm and work well, just travel too far. Thanks!
On top of each brake housing there is a slave cylinder with a green rubber boot. Remove the boot and you will find the brake accuator rod and adjuster nut and jam nut.
Thank you again, Goose!
Brakes adjusted up real nice today just like you said goose. Only a few turns left on the adjustment nuts but the way I am going to use the machine I bet I wont ever have to put new brakes in it.
Well, i just finished changing out all of the check plug o-rings as everybody here recommended to do. No more ghost controls!! I would say about half of the checks were missing the o-rings entirely and the other half were old and brittle. Once I figured out how to re-seat the check plugs the job went really well. With all the oil pouring out it was hard to get everything back together. I tried at first to reseat the checks by turning in the plugs which ended in disaster as I got a check seated incorrectly and it jammed the t valve in the plug. A little work with a file and frill and I had it working again. I finally realized that a few taps of the hammer was all that was needed to seat the check plugs and then the relief valves could be reinstalled. I think I still have one problem. When I lift the machine in the air by having the front bucket partially dumped (resting on the front edge) and dig with the rear hoe, the bucket will eventually curl back until it is resting flat on the ground while digging. I don't think this should happen. When I lift the bucket up after it does this the bucket simply falls to where I originally had it like there is air inside the cylinder. I rechecked the check plug on this circuit and it was fine. I'm wondering if I have a leaky cylinder? Maybe the relief valve need adjusted? Any ideas? Thanks
Could very well be a piston seal on a crowd cyl. You could test it by putting the front bucket in the tilted position - WITH NO WEIGHT ON IT - then with the engine off, cap & plug the lines going to the cyls & then trying to dig with weight on it. That isolates the leak to cyls only - they would still need to be hooked up both together for the bypass to show. If you cap them off individually the good cyl will probably still hold the weight. If you don't have caps & plugs - strip the cyls & inspect them to see if they are OK. Try that first & come back with results, then you'll have to look at the valve.
I ordered a Service manual download which was $16 I think from... http://bestmanuals.net/zencart/ If you get it, don't expect to find ALL the answers to your questions. Experiences from folks on this site are priceless. But the manual does have 1300+ pages broken down into sections. Lots of photos. And the guy selling these seems to be very respectable, responding to emails etc. The download is huge taking 45 minutes even with a 3K DSL connection.
got almost some problem on my case 695 super r wery slow hydraulic i cheked here is soleinoid wich turn 1 or 2 hydro pumps and any position i switch no changes i think solenoid valve stucked in slow position dunno what to do
if i remove this solenoid and close hole maybe then wil stay in fast position
btw new oil and filters already
Hey Goose would you happen to know the part #of the load check orings and the relief oring part #?
@87 580 super e Here's a link to the CNH online parts listing for the BH dipper & bucket cylinder section for a guide - the orings for the load checks & outer secondary relief cartridges are the same for each section.
@alrman , could you explain this again? I have the same problem in that the loader bucket won’t stay down when digging with the backhoe but I’ve repacked both loader cylinders. I get that by capping the exit of a cylinder that had pressure on it would test if it’s leaking around the piston seals but I don’t understand how you’d cap it and then move it so as to get pressure on it to perform the test. Thanks.
It could be done by raising the the loader and positioning the bucket to a 45° dump position. Put a jack under the cutting edge to hold it in that position while you remove the hoses from the tilt cylinders and cap the ports. After doing that remove the jack and lower the hoist to the ground. You would still need to uncap the cylinders one at a time to determine which one is leaking internally. There are other ways to do it. I would extend or contract both cylinders all the way. Doesn't matter which way. Remove the hoses that are closest to the rod piston and then try to extend or retarct the rod further with hydraulic pressure. If oil comes out of the open port on either cylinder you have found a leaker.
Ok , thanks I think I got it. Would this also work?: - tilt the bucket down to 45 degrees and press into ground. - on one of the bucket tilt cylinders, crack open both hose connections. The other cylinder should hold the pressure by itself(?). But if the bucket moves then the leaking is happening in that opposite, closed cylinder. - if bucket doesn’t move, tighten hose connections and repeat test on opposite cylinder. - if bucket still doesn’t move then the leak is in the valve ? Then I wouldn’t need to go and buy caps.
Man than would be messy and dangerous. Both tilt cylinders are connected vie one hard line, extending and retracting. You will need to separate them. You should have a cap and plug kit anyway for any blown hoses or working on seals. In my box I have jic 4,6,8 plugs and caps just for emergencies. After re-reading you could do this looking for blow by but not sure I would trust the results as simply capping them off and seeing which one moves. I rebuilt my tilts last year and made the mistake of getting off Amazon and the pressure seal was some kind split ring piece of junk and now need to redo as I have lost power in one or the other.
Going to visit Mr. Parker ! Thanks.
Don't angle the bucket and put it on the ground and have any of the loader weight on it or, like HH said you will get a bath. I would roll the bucket all the way over in the dump position. Put the hoist in float position. Remove the two front hoses on the bucket cylinders and then apply pressure to the cylinders as if you were going to dump the bucket further. Oil will come out of the cylinder(s) if the piston seals are leaking.
Now I got it, makes sense, thanks for explaining it .