I'm a newbie who's impressed with the sharing on this site. You guys are great. I just purchased my first backhoe a 580B. It appears to always have reverse power regardless of shuttle-control position. It has a power shuttle. When I picked up the hoe, the seller told me that it starting having trouble going forward - moving slower/weaker than normal. A week before he had the same issue. It had been sitting for a year. He removed the shuttle control valve and said that a port was partially clogged. He blew it out with air, reinstalled, and the issue improved. When I came to pick it up, the machine was moving slowly in forward again but fine in reverse. When I got it home it refused to move forward more than a 8-10 inches. Takes off strong then just locks up solid. When you press the clutch (dump) it rolls back - demonstrating that it had some forward pressure. I removed the shuttle control valve, but couldn't find anything that was clogged, nor did I find any screens that would clog. The pressure regulator channel was marred up (badly), I reamed it and now all spools move freely and seem to have tight tolerances. I put it all back together. Pressure gauge on dash seems to show proper functioning, but no improvement at all. I lifted the rear off the ground with the stabilizers and found that in neutral (on the shuttle) or reverse it has drive power in reverse. When shifted forward the tires move forward <1/8 turn then stop - locking solid regardless of engine RPMs. If tranny is in neutral the machine is in neutral - rolling freely. It's acting as if there is reverse power any time it's in gear, with shuttle forward, neutral, or reverse. And as if when in forward it's fighting against itself and not moving. When the tranny is in gear and the shuttle is in neutral it will drive in reverse uphill. When you shift the shuttle-control to neutral you can hear something whining/whirling around the shuttle control valve (sounds a bit like a turbo). So something is changing even though reverse is staying engaged. With my limited experience, it doesn't make sense that this is an issue with the shuttle control valve. I'm thinking that maybe the reverse clutches in the power shuttle may be stuck together or perhaps an issue with the output from the torque converter. If this is a possibility is there a way to check or run some solvent through to free them - anything preliminary splitting? Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
I'm no 580B expert and our resident 580B guy has, sadly, disappeared. But my thoughts, if you had it up on outriggers, had it in neutral, and the gauge showed no pressure, yet the wheels still turned in reverse with power, I'm thinking you got a problem with the reverse clutch pack. I once worked on a 555B Ford that the operator had a tendency to shift fwd/rev while machine was still moving, bent the components of the reverse clutch drum, had to split tractor to fix it. I hope you have some better success.
I agree with Willie, if you get reverse drive in neutral you can pretty will bet that it's the reverse clutch pack unless there is a serious crack in the shuttle valve housing or a broken spool but you have already had that apart.
Not the answer that I was hoping to hear, but thanks guys. (Was that Phil who disappeared from the forums, Willie?) Is it possible that the reverse clutch pack got some rust while sitting or some other foreign material that is hanging it up? I'm hoping for anything that I can try prior to splitting it - filter and fluid change, a flush, perhaps a solvent flush, or like my buddy told me to "shift it back and forth between forward and reverse a bunch of times" - anything you know that would be prudent to try?
Willie, you said This isn't precisely what is happening. Here is exactly how it behaves: By "drive sound" I'm referring to a whining/whirling sound near the shuttle valve. (Possibly the torque converter?) Trans Shuttle Clutch -- Description N N In -- Seems right. All stop. Tires turn freely by hand. N N Out -- Drive sound starts. Left rear tires begins to turn slowly reverse, but not fully driven. There is no torque to tire. Easy to stop by hand. Also intermittently (not often) makes a grumbling sound - possibly (larger) gears trying to mesh. Stops as soon as clutch pedal is pressed. 1st N In -- Seems right. All stop. 1st N Out -- Not right. Drive sound starts. Power to tires in reverse. Can drive backwards in this state. 1st F In -- Not right. Drive sound on. Left rear tire fully powered in reverse. 1st F Out -- Not right. Drive sound stops. Tires lock-up solid. 1st R In -- Not right. Drive sound on. Left rear tire powered in reverse. 1st R Out -- Drive sound on. Left rear tire powered in reverse. Hopefully these details help shed light on the situation. Please let me know if this confirms or changes your thoughts on this. Thanks again.
On a similar note- I'm looking to buy a late sixties 580ck which starts and runs good but won't move. The guy mentioned it had lost either forward or reverse first and then lost both. He also mentioned he drained the drive fluid and it did contain water eventually giving up on it and wanting it gone. Was wondering if anyone can give me any ideas on this- weather it could be as simple as flushing the drive system fluid and new filter- or what a typical worst case scenario meaning $$ for parts to split it might be. I will be performing all the work myself as I'm pretty brave LOL. Thanks for any help
Gents: I had a 580B ..........had a very weak hyd. drive clutch, was problem from the day I bought it............had to split the tractor to fix it, 15+ years ago it was,$2000 to do it.........don't know now............ Beware of this thing...........its going to cost alot to fix it!!!
Welcome satohwner! Oil & filter change rarely fixes a drive problem. There is a wealth of info here many of them covering drive problems on early Case hoes. Seek & you will find! Here's one to start - it's re a 580B, should be similar - HeavyEquipmentForums
I've done quite a bit of research on transmission remedies for this machine. I'm not sure if the older 580 ck as mine is (mid sixties to 71') has the same "innards" as the later B series. I haven't had a chance to go over this machine in person to know what I may be up against. I do know that sometimes these machines have only been neglected their basic needs and are subsequently "handed over" to someone more willing to take a little care with them and possibly extend their life expectancy. Tell me if I'm wrong but the first thing I intend to do is drain all "converter" fluid and change the filter in the front, also there is a drain in the filter body. Supposedly the torque converter can only be flushed by several fluid changes. I also found that there is a passage between the two driveline casings which can with a defective stop allow fluids to pass unwantedly between the two and may need to be addressed. As this is a "power shuttle" I am under the impression that I need to check in order to diagnose my trouble (assuming a fluid change doesn't remedy my problem), the pump pressure, the converter pressure and the control valve pressure, I know there is atleast one more. I also understand that there is an oil pickup tube that can become clogged. I assume that after these tests are performed you can diagnose the culprit by operating the controls whilst testing pressures thus knowing the issue before "splitting" it. Please let me know if you have any other ideas and if I'm on the general "right" track to diagnose her. Obviously I want to run as many tests as possible to narrow down the issue before I even consider "splitting" the machine. Thanks very much in advance for any info and help guys. I'm hoping to "restore" a few more of these rigs. My dad keeps asking me to find one for him.
What did you have to give for your backhoe (as a project no doubt?)