It appears that one of the previous owners of my 580B decided it was prudent to weld in the bushings in the dipper of the dipper to bucket connection. Anybody ever had to remove one that's been welded in? Suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks Glen
Grind? How bad are they? Got any pics?
carbide burr
I'm with Mike. A carbide burr in an air grinder. Use good eye protection ! Those things throw nasty chips.
& a rubber suit,{rain gear} so the chips bounce of ya..
I have some pictures, will post them when I'm on my computer at home. Security settings won't allow me to do it at work. Quite familiar with tiny hardened metal chips. Bad news. I'm not really looking forward to grinding it out. It would take hours, not to mention all the chips that would stick to my clothing, hair, skin, etc. I think it's welded all around the periphery, might be more than just a normal fillet weld deep. I really don't have an air compressor capable of driving my air grinders effectively. It's on the list, but will be some time before I buy one. I was thinking along the lines of cutting it out with a torch (buying one tonight) and re-welding the bore somewhat close, then installing the bushings with the pin inserted, then welding them in place. There was hardly any grease in the bore. I imagine if it were greased regularly that wear would be minimal for the 3 or 4 hours a week that I might use it. What would opinions/suggestions be along these lines?
If you are not an experienced user of cutting torches you can have a disaster on your hands if you gouge out the dipper bore. If you do burn it out, make a bevel cut all the way around the bushing. Don't cut real deep at first. Don't cut straight into the bore. I would use an air chisel to clean up the bevel cut. A large pipe reamer would be another way I would clean up the cut.
I hate to say it, but you might be heading down a dead end road. Chances are they welded the bushings in because the bores were destroyed, and IF you manage to get what's left of the old bushings out you will be in the same shape. So, will you just weld back in the new ones, or what? Might just want to let this one go until you can have somebody linebore it properly. JMO.
Tinkerer, I've been in the metalworking industry for 30+ years. Plenty experience on the torch. That doesn't mean I feel good about burning out a bushing! Shimmy, I believe you are exactly right about the original bore for the bushings. My thoughts are yes, I will weld back in the bushings. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. I believe I can weld up any damage to the bore close enough to get the bushings in the proper place and with enough bearing area, but somewhat loose, put them in place with the pin in the bushings, then tack the bushing in place. Then I would remove the pin and weld up the bushings a little at a time, continually checking fit with the pin. I'm thinking this would work. I don't believe for one second it will be as easy as it sound!
If you're competent to weld up the damaged bores so that new bushings can be installed hopefully without recourse to welding them in place in order to keep them there, why not go the extra mile and weld the bores undersized and then have them machined correctly so that the new bushes are a press or shrink fit..?
Eagle Alloy 188 chamfer rod works great for slicing out thin bushings or inserts with any decent DC welding machine. I was amazed the first time I seen it used in the horizontal position, how good it worked. works even better in vertical. Not as wild as the sparks from Arc Air. Simon
Thanks Ill have to try that.
If you build them up with nickel it is strong enough for the job but easier to machine.
Well, I guess the main reason would be $$$. This won't be a high-use machine, as I said, maybe 3-4 hours a week. I suppose I'd never wear out the bushings (pin maybe) if greased regularly. This joint looks like it was dry. Really, I'm not usually the kind of guy who does thing half-a**ed. I am, as I said, a machinist by profession and the thought of having it line-bored is appealing to me, but I don't really know anybody around here who does it and I can only imagine it's very expensive. Now, if I had a rig (cheapest one I can find to do the job is around $4500) I wouldn't hesitate to do it myself. No magic to it, it's a simple setup and simple machining operation. Unfortunately, I only have a torch and a welder and I'm going to give it a go with what I have at the moment. Thanks for your advice and I understand completely why you believe the way you do!
Where might one start looking for some of these rods?
eaglealloys.ca > Products > Metal Cutting > Eagle 188 > Found in Edmonton Alberta Canada Or ArcTec Alloys > Our Products > By Process > SMAW (stick) >88 Gouging Calgary Alberta Canada 1-866-272-8321 I have used both products , either on will do a good job. Simon
Someone posted recently about a DIY line boring setup with some flange bearings and a portable drill Tinkerer may remember who or which thread. The tolerances aren't so critical on such an old machine that gets little use. It's your fix so it's your call.
Take the dipper off and do it on a drill press.
That's why I suggested line boring. As you're a machinist I thought you would know someone local to you with the tooling. Delmer's drill press idea for machining isn't half bad either.........
How about an out of box idea … Weld a bench top drill press to the stick. Indicate the spindle to the stick for location and alignment. Use a fly cutter to bore it. I wonder how stiff the set up could be. Perhaps a bearing on the opposite side to counter the droop. Got a lathe to make a boring bar out of a fly cutter?
This place has line boring kits for a mag drill but a hand held drill would work. I'd think a machinist could MacGiver something a little more low budget that would work. Drill the boring bar off center so the cutter tip is on the centerline. turn some centering cones for set up - could even be wood, plastic, or aluminum? Tack weld some flange bearings to hold everything in place and then remove the bar and weld it up. http://www.americanmachinetools.com/line_boring.htm https://www.thebigbearingstore.com/ucf200-series/
I remember reading somewhere that you were going to build one a couple of years . Maybe not. There were a couple of threads about home-made line boring set-ups. Here is one of them --> HeavyEquipmentForums Wes j is an experienced machinist and made his own set-up. A very nice one ! HeavyEquipmentForums
Call some heavy equipment dealers and see who they use.
You have Thompson Tractor in Montogmery .....
Tinkerer, Those are both good thread links but different from the one I was thinking about. It was just in the last month or so - someone doing a DIY repair on an old machine using a hand held drill for the power. It wasn't a dedicated line boring thread - just mentioned in a repair. I remember you commenting on his machining skills or knowledge. If it comes down to $$$, a pro is probably not in the budget. I did pick up a nice used mag drill on CL and still need to take the slop out of the main pivot on my dozer - right after I change those lower rollers. I was threatening to use it on my 580's kingpin bores but it wasn't the tool for that job.
Grady; I usually remember threads that I comment in but you have me in a memory lapse. LOL ! I think that homemade line-bore setup was in a thread about a 580CK that had the loader frame bushings broken and wore out. You know, where the rod goes from one side of the frame to the other side.
Right, I think that's the one. I won't be the one to say anything about memory. I couldn't even remember that much. edit: I found it. Thanks for the hint. page 9 of the thread, starts on post 169. HeavyEquipmentForums
"Cost about 75 dollars for the shaft and bearings"
YAY ! You found it. How could I forget it was in funnyfarm's thread ? I'm going to bookmark it. There is a lot of good info in it.
Great thread above. I've thought about doing something similar, but I kept coming up with reasons why it wouldn't work. I guess this proves that it will. I didn't think a 1/2" drill would be quite enough muscle to get the job done. I also have the exact same issue as this thread illustrates with my loader arm mounts. Also, the square hole sleeves would be great to use on a bar. MSC also sells Turned, Ground and Polished (TGP) round stock. It ain't cheap but it's good quality stuff. I think I'd have to add a screw feed to the whole bar in some manner. Of course a mag drill would be the way to go. Might have to start looking for a used one. I sure hope I don't have to go to all this trouble, but I will if that's what it is going to take. It will most likely be a month or two before I get to that point. Got other issues that make the machine inoperable at the moment that I have to take care first. Just ordered $427 worth in parts from Dale to fix those issues. I'll take pictures and post them in this thread when I get around to the job...
Don't forget to post pictures of your progress Glen. We love pictures and they really help others seeking help.
The boring set up I cobbled up worked quite well for the price. A mag drill would help speed things up but the extra work to mount a plate to stick the mag to was skipped after I did a test cut with a cordless 1/2 in drill. The battery died and instead of mounting a heavy plate to stick the mag drill to I just grabbed my corded drill and went about making chips. Taking light cuts ( about 10-20thou ) and trying diff speeds till chatter was minimal. Actually worked better than I had expected and once I had the cutter set up right and shaped right it gave a decent finish. The set up could be used on just about any bore that needs to be fixed up. On the loader arms side of my repair I had to torch out the old hard bushings that we’re welded in place before I could line bore them. Being careful to just cut the bushing and not the bore. Once the hard stuff was removed the holes could quite easily be bored and bushings spun up to get the bored back to whatever size u wanted to go for. Use as large of a shaft as possible as the heavier the boring shaft is the less urban will deflect and chatter during the cutting. It’s not a 4000 dollar boring machine but round is round and for the 150 ish dollars I spent building the set up I was more than happy with the results. Granted and power feed and speed control would likely have done a better job but my old machine isn’t worth enuf to warrant expensive boring repairs so I just did what I could to keep the repair on the cheap. Work well for me and I wouldn’t be afraid to attempt the same repair on almost any pivot on the machine. And to be honest I likely will do a similar boring operation on the swing tower bushings after my machine is running again and the front half is back in working order.
Nice set up - plenty good enough for these old machines and right in the budget. Round is round - I agree.
Nice to see you back and explaining your boring set-up Funny farm ! So, your 580 isn't up and running yet ?
I like it!
Hi guys. Thanks. Haven’t been on here in a bit. Been busy lately. Sadly no my old girl is still waiting for her engine transplant. Haven’t had time to work on it in a while. Hope to get engine back in real soon tho. Bought a gauge set for it the other day so I can monitor temp and pressure on the engine for the breakin. Had hoped to have her back together by now but been hard to find the time. I will get some more pics and update the progress when there’s something to post on my project.