Last winter I had an ice issues and it died as I was trying to clear snow for our housing area. I installed new fuel filters, tried heat, tried a lot of things and gave up and just got it back into it parking spot. Fast forward I finally got to it yesterday. I drained the tank of everything using the sump drain. Yes there was still water in the sump. I put in fresh fuel and I having the same issues. It starts and runs fine for a little bit and then losses power and then dies. It will start right up and then losses power and dies again. over and over. Sometimes it runs longer and loses power and dies, sometimes it is right away. I have done this for about an hour to include buying a new battery to try to get rid of any water left in the pump and stuff. When I open the drains on the filters, I getting fuel' I plan on checking the sump 1st to see it I have water back in the tank from the injector return... But this is kicking my ass. This last winter is the first time has started. Normal for this rig is that it starts right up, if not, small shot of "date in a can" and it is off and running. Once running it just runs. It is as if something is blocking off the fuel, the engine dies, whatever is blocking it moves, it restarts and gets blocked off again. I am thinking of using a spare gas can feed the engine to eliminate the gas tank. Could someone put something in the tank that is blocking the outline???? But it dies too quick for it to be in the tank... I think.
Sounds like you have a restriction between the pump and the tank somewhere. It sounds like it is letting fuel through, enough to get it bled and started but as soon as it starts running, it’s starving for fuel. I would start by disconnecting line at pump and blowing back through to tank with the cap off. While it’s disconnected, first look for any banjo fittings that could have a screen in them. The pump guy may come by to advise on the return line removal. Good luck. Be sure to post pic of pump and engine area. Might also make sure the fuel shut off solenoid is clear and staying open.
You've got to disconnect the return line from top cover to remove it anyway, so blowing out the return line back to tank will be no issue, but the plastic flex ring is more likely your issue. Remove 3 screws from top cover and remove. Most likely it'll contain small dark coffee ground/mouse turd looking debris, that's your smoked flex ring. This issue has been covered here extensively so won't go into detail. Sure pumpguy will be along shortly to explain timing and removal so you can send it to him for rebuild.
Its raining today so waiting on the pump guy?
Remove the RETURN LINE from the top of the pump.. Next unscrew the RETURN CONNECTOR from the top cover.. Now start the engine.. Fuel WILL flow out of the hole in the top cover so if that’s an issue, rig up something to catch it or re-route it.. If it stays running, u either have rust or pieces of broken flex ring clogging the RETURN CONNECTOR.. Remember, no fuel OUT, means no fuel IN..
If u unscrew the fitting that in the connector and try to look thru the connector, you’ll probably see it’s blocked.. U can try to blow it out with compressed air.. Remember, it’s a 1 way check valve (ball).. If u clean up the top cover with brake cleaner u can remove the 3 flat head screws (5/16 wrench) BE CAREFUL, the screws can and will break.. Have a look in the corners of the housing, that’s where the broken flex ring pieces like to live.. If they’re there, there’s no magic that’ll fix it.. the pump has to be removed and torn down..
Ty I'll hit it next Friday. Too late on a Sunday to rip into it. I will follow up here when I do get to it.
To be clear remove the line and then the 90 degree elbow. My top cover looks like to have 5 bolts. Thanks for the help.
Yes, u can remove the 90.. THEN THE FITTING UNDER IT.. THATS the return connector (Checkball) The top cover is held down by 3 screws in a triangle pattern. If u find 5 I’ll kiss ur azz.. U need to read and comprehend..
Sorry about that. No disrespect. My fear is causing more damage by doing something wrong. I can rebuild engines, fix airplanes, even write software code, but the one thing I have learned over the years... Before you start pulling something apart, make dam sure you can do it without pulling that one bolt that you can't put back in. I have too many hobbies My site of tools and toys Just4Fun RobBob Small Shop Just for Fun thisisjust4fun.weebly.com
I have the rebuild kit coming: Stanadyne Roosamaster FLEX RING FAILURE KIT for DB Diesel Fuel Injection Pumps | eBay These are made in Italy. 1x 29111 GENUINE STANADYNE Upgraded weight cage to prevent future failure. www.ebay.com Talked with Badger Diesel. The kit comes with 1x 29111 GENUINE STANADYNE Upgraded weight cage to prevent future failure. He explained that older diesel fuel had more oil in when it was refined. That lack of oil in the fuel causes issues. I would relate it to having lead in the gas in the 70s. I am just repeating what I was told. I did go with this Ebay kit as if I can't get it rebuilt, the parts bought, "would credit you back for any hard parts that would have normally been replaced minus any costs" Just waiting for parts now.
I got to work on the backhoe today. thepumpguysc is/was right. The flex ring was trashed. I couldn't see the crap in the top due to the color. The ring was clear and looked like sand after I got it drained. I have pulled the pump apart and cleaned it. It is back together. I believe I got it right. Things to know. You got to put the snap ring in, and the Governor arm goes on the engine side of the thrust sleeve. The later will stop the thrust sleeve from lining up. Things to note are the Cam arrow and the four-blade pump is CC or C out. Mine was arrow CC and the pre pump was CC. Now for questions: Timing marks... I put it back to were it was, Is that right or do I have to set the timing? (Link?) How long does it take to get the fuel up to the injectors to get it to run? I had to stop do to lack of light and storms. Fuel made it to the pump and I think it is coming out at the banjo fittings. Everything was getting wet as I bleed the system... I have more photos but they are on the chip in the barn. This is what I found left of the flex...
If it was running fine before u took it off the engine, it’ll be close enough to start and run when you put it back on. Just remember, the drive shaft DOT HAS TO line up with the dot inside the pump.. DOT TO DOT(flashlight) ITS SUPER EASY to roll the first seal going into the pump (pilot tube) so lube it well.. clean oil or Vasoline..
Tie the throttle back to the wide open position while trying to mount the pump to the engine..
It was running before the flex ring let go. But I thought it was water in the fuel. Bad delivery of fuel to my house I have been dealing with for the last couple of years. The dot was pointed outboard. 9 o'clock looking into the motor, 3 o'clock looking into the pump. It went back together with both outboard. I have not set the motor to ??? top dead center???. Not sure how. I am thinking it just getting the fuel up to the injectors. Storm stopped me as the intake was open and had to get things closed up. Working outside. My Ford 1310 only takes cracking an injector at the injector, and it will start spiting fuel and running in 30 seconds of cranking. I have about 5 to 8 minutes of cranking to get fuel to the banjo fitting. Again, I have only ran the Ford out of fuel... not rebuilt a pump. After the rain, I will try again. I am sure pulling the front cover on the motor, I'll find alinement marks That will align with the Injector timing????? If needed.... Just have to find that in the 800 plus page book...
The pump is at 3:00 so the drive shaft should be at 9:00.. There is a hole down by the starter, sometimes it’s easier to pull the starter to see the flywheel numbers.. Your pump is either set at 0. Or at 8* BTDC.. THATS where the lines come together.
U DONT pull the timing cover.!!
The pump is at 3:00 so the drive shaft should be at 9:00.. I know I got that right. So, at this point: I pulled the top and I have fuel there, reinstalled. I have the #3 and #4 injectors disconnected I have the return line to the cap disconnected. Starting for about 3 minutes total in 20 sec tries No fuel coming from the injector lines. If I loosen the lower banjo bolt on the pump it is wet but no flow. The pump ring is CC and the low presser pump is CC. Should I pull the pump back out and go thought it? What am I missing. I didn't pull the pistons behind the rollers, should I have done that? The bottom the only thing I saw that was questionable was the ?? power piston ?? with the ring was bottomed out but I got that freed up. Think about pulling it and going into the high pressure pump... I just afraid of #!%$ something up.
U know how to fix that dontcha.?? Box it up and send it South.. If I knew whatcha did, I’d dam sure tell ya..but seeing I wasn’t there…?? Did u take the fittings out of the top cover and try to start it.?? If not, do it.. & btw, 20 seconds is to long for that old starter to be humpin..
Will try that next. Since last posted I pulled it and pulled it apart. I think the pistons behind the rollers are too tight. I cleaned the cylinder nylon brush. Cleaned the pistons too. One slides in and out easily, but the other is still tight but now moves. I put it back together and in still no joy. So, the questions I have: 1. The pistons, should they move easily? I know they have to be tight enough for them to be pump pistons. But I thought they should be able to slide in and out by turning it on its side. Neither will move. 2. If they are too tight, what do I hone the cylinder with? Do I? 3. What size should the cylinder be? The video is after I pulled it, found the pistons tight and reinstalled. One banjo bolt is loose, barely anything coming from it. I am getting good and pulling and installing the pump. Thanks for the help.
I see the problem.!!!! Pull the throttle to wide open.!!!
And TAKE THOSE G.D. FITTINGS OFF THE TOP COVER.!!
I've done full throttle but will try with the check valve removed. Might be after work tomorrow. So the pistons should be that tight? I was thinking that was the issue.
U should be able to push them thru easily..
U don’t hone the bore.. U put lapping compound on a piston and work it back and forth.. then do the other piston.. More than likely it has goo on it and just needs to be cleaned.. Did u check the metering valve.?? THAT HAS TO BE FREE..
Metering valve is free. I cleaned the pistons and cylinder. They sat in the carburetor dip can. I'll pull it out and clean the hell out them again. I didn't think it was right to be that tight. I'll look closer for any water damage. Still dealing with that bad delivery... Should the piston pass from one side to the other? i.e. pass though the center? If it comes to honing, I would like to be able spin the pistons as I move them in and out, but I would have to bond a rod to one end. Use JB weld to mount a rod and acetone to clean the bonding. Or is there a better way? I have Grinding Polishing Pastes: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N896P4S I also have valve lapping compound but that is too heavy for this work.
How much fuel do you have in the tank? If not at least half full these can be horrible to prime. I use a syringe and fill the top cavity of the pump. It makes a big difference. I have a spare pump driveshaft and test the pump before I put it on the machine. That way you know it is good
Sounds like you don’t have that much compression.
SOMEONE give this kid a RoosaMaster rebuild manual, PLEASE.!! Take the “HONE” word out of your vocabulary.. If the plungers won’t pass from side to side.. coat ONE in 38-1200 lapping compound and push it in. Now get 2 punches that just fit in the bore and move the piston from side to side .. It doesn’t take long.. stop periodically and blow out the bore and clean the plunger and check your progress.. Redo as many times as needed.. Sometimes a plunger likes one hole or the other.. find which hole it moves better in and work on that side.. just be sure after u clean it up, the plunger goes in the side u worked.. U can go lighter than 1200 BUT NOT HEAVIER.!! Good luck, I’ve got work to do.
I can now pull the pump and take it apart in about one and half hours fighting off the wasps and not dropping anything in the grass or the bucket of diesel. I spent some more time on lapping the pistons. Frist time around I was worried about taking too much off. I can't put it back. This last time I could push one in and the other would pop out if not aligned with an injector opening. Starting I did fill the cap with diesel, 22 syringes. I left the check valve off till it started to come out. I put in the check valve and elbow and only hooked up the line till it spit again. I did crack the lines up by the injectors. After the fitting got wet, I tighten the fitting, and it started right up. It is idling high. Not sure if it is timing or I adjust the idle stop. I seem like it is missing some power. If someone could point how to set timing of the pump or is it adjust and try. Thanks all for the help. My fears of opening the pump were only fears of the unknow.
Glad you have it running now. Far as I know, As long as the timing gears haven't been messed with. You line up the timing marks on the flywheel. Then look under the side oval shaped cover on the pump to make sure the lines there are lined up. Hopefully there is still a line on the outside of the pump and the block and those should be lined up as well. The pump guy gave me a great tip about working in the wild. "PUT A TARP DOWN FIRST!" Thanks pump guy, That has saved me a couple times since I started following that advice
Happy to help.. Outlaw> did u transfer the timing line from your old weight retainer to the new one.?? Even if u did, it’s not going to be exact, like it should be.. We have a degree tool the ensures the mark is exact.. So trying to set the timing using the “timing lines” that you made and the flywheel degrees is a waste of time. Unless of course you had someone with that tool, put the mark on your new retainer.. AND you installed the retainer the right way on the head.. There’s 2 different timing settings for the 580..1 is TDC & the other is 8* BTDC..and u check or set it by, rotating the engine IN ITS NORMAL ROTATION, to either check/set point. (0* or 8*BTDC) and checking the lines behind the side window on the pump..& u line them up by rotating the pump.. But like I said, if the line wasn’t put on correctly, it’s a waste.. I’ve seen them off by as much as 4*..
The old weight didn't have a mark. I know the prior owner rebuilt the pump right before I bought it. When all the problems started, I reach out to him only to find he has passed. I'll look again at the old one, maybe there is a scratch I missed but I was looking hard.
I don’t know how you’ll set the timing then.. other than by ear..
How did you line up the timing marks in side window of pump before removing? That little tip has been shared with just about every Roosa/ Stanadine pump thread I have ever read on this site. Once again, you need to read and comprehend...Unless of course you're just posting this crap for a reaction.
Stinky64 Go back and read. It didn't have marks. If your not going to help GO AWAY
Thepumpguy I have been playing with the timing and it's getting better.
I think this has been mentioned before but, I believe you are not supposed to change the timing with the engine running.
^^^^ Why? How else do you time it by ear. As long as you keep the bolt snug and just make small movements. Curious because I have done this so many times and have never heard this before.
Not sure why but I am pretty sure it has been said in the past. Maybe Pump guy will chime in and explain
The “side thrust” WILL seize the head and rotor..& depending at what rpm u were running at, u might end up with 2 pieces of a pump.. I’ve seen it.. a guy came into the shop with 2 pieces of a pump.. snapped right behind the mounting flange.. I said, u tried timing it while it was running didn’t you.?? He said,”YUP”.. Ur “supposed to” run it, get the engine warm/hot.. check the smoke.. if ur not happy with the performance, check the timing marks at either 0* OR 8*..on the flywheel and behind the pump window.. Loosen the pump, move it AND THEN TIGHTEN THE HOLD DOWN NUTS.. run it again & check the smoke and power.. Repeat as often as necessary.. That’s why it’s important to time it before taking it off.. Just line up the lines behind the side plate on the pump.. and look by the starter for an access to the flywheel..
Thank you for that explanation.
X2 Thank you. I was chicken to do it running. I am on the third round of playing with it. It gets better each time. I figure one more time. I am still getting white smoke. Before I started this journey of learning, the Case had a light smoke after it was running for an hour or more. I am still getting more than before. I am sure the motor could use a set of rings but that's the next guy's problem. I sure it going to outlast me.
Ya know, if u had asked the seller of the solid weight retainer, they would have put the correct timing line on ur part.
Hine sight is 20/20 and crystal clear.