Finished up the install of my shuttle yesterday. Full rebuild. I blew out the tranny cooler before hooking it to the shuttle. When I first started it after putting in as much fluid as it would take there was no movement in any selector position until I got about a gallon and a 1/2 in it. Then the shuttle seemed to work fine. I had the wheels up off the ground. Had good forward. neutral and reverse. So, I put the rest of the fluid in until it was up to the full mark in neutral at idle. Now when I put it in either forward or reverse there is no movement. SIGH Any thoughts on what is wrong? My first thought is the control valve. TIA for any help
Make sure your clutch disconnect is installed properly. It is also supposed to be in 4th gear and warm when chec oil. Did you get a reman tourqe converter or have it cleaned?
The clutch disconnect is installed correctly as far as I can tell. I got this machine with the shuttle out. The shuttle that came with the machine had a rag inside all wrapped around the output shaft. Why 4th gear? It is supposed to be in neutral though right? I got a reman converter with the complete kit from broken tractor
It’s supposed to be in neutral because the book says that. Lol Its got the pump moving in the shuttle but not the output. The stalk goes in neutral, brakes on or stabilizer down against a tree and in 4th gear. I ask about the clutch disconnect solenoid because if that out or not working, you’re not going anywhere. It is a pretty straightforward rebuild and the tourqe converter is usually a shortcut. When I bought mine from BT 5 years ago, they were 500 bucks, just noticed the other day and they were like 1200.
How much oil do you think you got in shuttle so far?
I have the full 8-1/2 quarts in it now. I had the fwd/reverse in neutral and the 1-4 trans selector in neutral too. Weird thing is when I had about 5 quarts in it it had good fwd/ reverse with the wheels up off the ground but once I put the full 8-1/2 in it doesn't move the tire in either direction off the ground. I can turn the tires by hand so no brake locked or stuck Doesn't seem to load the engine at all now in either direction. I will check to see if there is any voltage going to the disconnect solenoid tonight. If I don't blow it up that is....
So, New information. I started it tonight and it had good forward/ reverse for about a minute. Actually moved the tractor and then it stopped again. Checked the fluid in neutral once warmed up and level is exactly where it's supposed to be. Unscrewed the disconnect solenoid with it running in gear. (Tractor up on stabilizers) The disconnect plunger was sticking out. Pressed it in and it made no difference. Seems like the plunger might be stuck inside maybe? I am thinking of removing the control valve.
Took the control valve out and there were some bits of stuff in it and the plunger was stuck inside. Cleaned it all up, put it back together and... No different.
Is there any chance that the "O" ring in the sump screen tube is leaking or maybe a crack in the tube of it ?
I suppose that's possible but I didn't see a crack when I had it out. The o-ring "Felt" ok when I slipped it back in. Guess I have to find a pressure gauge to "Gauge" what's going on
Sigh, Hooked up a gauge and MAYBE 5 psi. Draining the shuttle now. Oil looks fine, no signs of water , or metal. Probably going to pull the control valve one more time just for good measure and see what I see
Did you drain and flush the torque convertor when you did the rebuild ? It could be part of the problem. Especially if it is failing and contaminated the shuttle. There could be crap in a oil gallery. I'm curious how you got a 580G that was, I think made in France. I think it is a clone of the US made 580SE except for the David Brown motor in it. IMHO of course.
The torque converter was a rebuilt one. It was a couple towns over from me. I did some research. I found an article that claimed that when the "G" was being made. Due to the exchange rate on the dollar to wherever they were made it was cheaper to buy the "G" and import it than to buy a US made one. It has a david brown engine.
I would be looking in the pressure regulator to verify it is spotlessly clean and the springs in it are ok and where they should be. I have seen some strange things in control valves. One was a spring missing because someone wasn't paying attention when it was worked on. He must have lost it when it was being disassembled. It took me a while to see that it was missing. From the 580se parts book-->
I would also verify that the oil sump filter hasn’t become dislodged. Was this the G over in Raymond? There was one in Nottingham for a while.
It came from Newbury mass when I got it. Wasn't running. It needed a valve job and head gasket Dropped the oil last night so I can drop the pan and check the screen. REALLY hoping I don't have to pull it back out but we will see.
I didn't realize until today that I had a 580G parts book (PDF) buried in one of my laptops. So, I am posting a better image of your shuttle control valve. You may want to take yours out and make sure everything is in it and in the proper position. Especially the little ball bearings on the springs. It would be very easy for someone to have put one on the wrong side of the spring. Another thing is the voltage supply to #48 switch. There could be a problem in the wire harness.
Thanks for that. I do have the parts book and the operators manual for it but I don't have a service manual with a wiring diagram. I have a service manual for my 580C and have been using that for the shuttle. Pretty sure there is no voltage going to the #48 switch. There are 2 wires coming off the plug for that and one of them has a ring terminal that I don't know where it goes to. I believe #48 is just the neutral safety switch
The 580G service manual would have the only schematics I would trust to be accurate for your tractor. #48 switch is the clutch cut-out. It should be fuse protected. (I'm guessing ) There should be a floor mounted switch and one in the gear shift. They both need to be working correctly. Page #73 and beyond in the parts book shows the harnesses and where they go. Harness connectors are notorious for getting loose and corroding. I would remove the valve and apply 12 volts to the switch to see if it is working. You could then determine if the valve has enough force to operate correctly.
Your belief is correct, clutch cutout solenoid is most likely pictured in power shuttle electrical system section, similar to your manual for C. Pages 66 & 67. Also wanna make sure the brake pedal cutout switches behind the dash are working correctly if so equipped. Don't know how different the G is wired.
So, My selector valve clutch cutout solenoid works as so. When the solenoid is de-energized it is supposed to push the shaft in to engage drive. When energized it is supposed to pull out and release the shaft. I tried removing the solenoid and manually pushing in on the disconnect shaft with the motor running and no difference. I took the selector valve out again this weekend. Cleaned it out really well and re-assembled it 100% according to the manual. Put it back in and put most of the fluid back in. Same results. Very little drive. The weirdest thing to me is that the shuttle never goes into neutral now or reverse. It always rotates the driveshaft (Weakly) in the forward direction. Thinking I have to pull it back apart to see what's not happy in there.
To eliminate any electrical guessing unplug the solenoid, that is a disconnect solenoid and the unit will work fine, just no disconnects from the buttons. I would be looking at the pump.
I went even further, Removed it and manually pushed it in. You can remove it with the motor running and then there is for sure no electrical guessing. But, still no go I don't see how the pin that pushes against the pressure valve can seal to make it work with no real sealing surface but that's how it's supposed to work. You would think there would have to be something to make it seal
Have you dropped the pan yet, to look at the suction strainer?
Going to do that next. when I put the control valve back together it "seemed" like it was working differently than before I took it apart. got me hopeful so, I put it back together and hoped and prayed to the evil cruel tractor gods it would work
If there is no joy in the oil pan then unfortunately you’re going to have to pull the bitch. When I did mine, the manual and one video I found on U-tube were very specific on sizing the ring thicknesses when putting back together. Were you careful there? I also think it’s a pump issue. How well did the ears in the tourqe converter go in? Did you force it with the bolts at all?
I don't have a G. The G a friend owns was built same year as the K I had. They share a lot of parts. My first K was prone to leaking from the torque converter, then it'd slip if not topped up fully. Second K got the torque converter rebuilt at the dealer. It never leaked. New owner said it wouldn't move one day. I checked it, it was 3.5 quarts low on fluid. Then it worked fine. Another thought; have you used only Hy-Tran from Case? Other fluid could foam, give you a false dipstick reading. Mine is tricky to check. You have to follow manual instructions exactly, or you get a false reading. I find the dipstick very hard to read. Pour fluid down the same tube as the dipstick, you get a false reading.
Took the time to pull the pan last night. Well it can't pump the fluid if it can't GET the fluid! I am guessing the oil cooler has residue from the rag that was left in the shuttle from before I got it. I am thinking of bypassing the cooler for now just to make sure the shuttle is good as I think that has to be where this "Stuff" came from
Good grief ! What a mess to clean up. By-passing the cooler is a good idea. It may be plugged as badly as the sump screen. I wonder what that crap did to your rebuilt torque convertor.
Told ya, lol
Well the stuff was soft and everything that I found in the drain pan was soft too. I put a paint filter in a funnel and poured the drained oil through it. Hoping for the best
I expect it will be fine. I would clean the crap out of the oil cooler though. Might think of draining the tourqe converter also, you never get it all out though.
I did drain the converter once already. Thinking of pulling the cooler if I can get to it. Might take it to a trans shop and see f they have a way to flush it properly. At least that sounds like a good idea.
Filled the shuttle up tonight and I am happy to say this thing has SERIOUS power now! I still may flush the cooler but, for now I am satisfied the shuttle is fine.