Hey guys I've been having a stange problem lately. When I go to start the tractor it cranks but won't get any fuel to start running. I have to go in and crack the fuel relief screw on the engine and I let the fuel from the line out and then I can start it up no problem. Then once I turn it off and try to start it again I get the same issue. I can't figure out what it is. There is no air coming out of the line either when I crack the bleed screw.
Sounds to me like something is allowing fuel to drain out or back to the tank when shut down. Fuel shut off may not be sealing full closed. Happen to see any wet areas when fuel my be dripping?
There was a leak in the fuel filter housing but I fixed that right before this started. Now I have no leaks but it doesn't like to start. It seems like the fuel is staying pressurized and something is preventing it from getting to the injectors. I can start it on ether and then it just dies immediately once the ether is done. Then I can crack the bleed valve and let the fuel out in the line then it starts up no problem.
Mine won't always pick up fuel when the tank isn't full. I believe when the fuel level is below the priming pump it struggles to prime. An electric lift pump could be added, or keep it full.
Test the check valve. # 10a
Bringing this back up from the dead. Still. Have not figured out the issue. Whenever I turn it off and then try to start it back up before letting it sit for a good hour it just cranks and doesn't even act like it's getting fuel. If I open the top air bleed screw a bunch of fuel under pressure squirts out then stop then I am able to start it right up like normal. No idea what the heck is causing this still. It happens every single time I turn it off then try to start it back up within around 30 minutes to an hour. If it sits for longer the pressure goes down in it and it will start normal without opening that air bleed screw. No air comes out by the way from the bleeder just a spurt of fuel.
Is the breather on the fuel tank open, maybe the tank is holding pressure?? Try removing the fuel return line.
My theory is a small air leak between the mechanical fuel pump & the "tank" (one side of the loader frame). It sucks a bit of air, forming a cushion so a pulsating diaphragm pump isn't effective. Is it better when the tank is absolutely full? Another theory: You pull a vacuum in the tank cause the cap is airtight, fuel pump can't overcome. Mine starts slower when the tank isn't full, or when I've been running it a while.
I said pressure, what I meant was a vaccum, ... Willie got it right!
Going to have to try to test that. I don't think there is a vacuum. It all started when I replaced the fuel filter gasket that connected the two filters to the cylinder head. It was leaking when it was on from large oring and after I replaced it that's when the issue started, never before that time.
OEM O ring ? Regardless if it is or not get a new that matches the old one that leaked. That is what I would do.
Just replaced the o-ring or o-ring with filter? I have seen more than one bad new filter over the years.
I've come across this problem before..... The fuel supply builds up pressure to the injector pump while cranking, - won't start. Once you release the pressure the machine starts..... Eventually the fuel shut off solenoid failed on this machine - it was replaced & the problem was gone ...... go figure Might be worth a shot
Ordered d a new fuel shut off solenoid. Only 45 bucks. Worth a shot. Coming next week will let you guys know how it goes.
OK put the new fuel shutoff solenoid in and it gets 0 fuel at all now to the injection pump even while attempting to hand prime. Put the old one back in and it starts and runs but has same issue. No God damn idea what this is now. With the new solenoid in the bleed screw on the injection pump doesn't produce any fuel from it at all. The one above the dual fuel filter pumps fuel out just fine. Am I missing something here? I don't get how the old one works but the brand new one blocks all fuel going to the injection pump even using the hand primer. I'm beginning to think that I should have left the little fuel leak I had before from the fuel filter head plate because all these starting problems started after I fixed that.
Also I did this yesterday. Put new solenoid in and no good nothing at all no fuel flow. Put old one back in and got it running. Used the machine this morning then decided to try the new one again and put it in and it won't run no matter what. It won't get any fuel into the injection pump it seems with the new one. Possibly it's faulty? It's a brand new one from broke tractor and the exact same part.
Some/ A LOT of pictures might help.??
For it sounds like the old shut off was not really shutting off, and could be wiring controlling it is also at issue
I would assume that if the old one was never really shutting off wouldn't the machine just keep running? Going to have to test both of these shutoffs tomorrow morning out of the machine.
It may be an injection pump problem with the shut off, and not the solenoid at all.
Are you sure the new shut off is 12v & not 24v? Have you used a test light to ensure 12v is at the shut off when ign is on & while you are cranking the engine?
That’s kinda the lines I was going thru.. WHAT P# sol. did u get from BT.? They say 12 or 24 on them. It’s also easy to tighten up the 1st nut to much & pull it out of the sol. AND when u go to change it, it releases & makes contact/ works again..
It's the J904630 shut off solenoid that I got from them. Exact same as the old one in there. Going to check voltage and everything tomorrow morning to that wire.
Sorry I thought it was a Stanadyne sol. w the 2 posts, held in w nuts & washers.. BE SURE to check the voltage WHILE CRANKING TOO.. I’ve seen them have voltage w the key ON & drop it while cranking.
So I tested voltage to the solenoid has 12volts. Took of new one and bench tested it and of course the new one doesn't work. Bench tested the old one and it works fine. Put old one back in and it started right up. Go figure.
And yes the new solenoid is exactly the same and says 12v on it. Tested both the exact same way. Figure brand new parts would actually work correctly.
I have wasted hours laboring under that assumption. Disgusting, ain't it?
Lol.. it only takes 1 or 2x for THAT to happen before u start testing “new part” before installing them... We ALL learned THAT way.. lol
But now it goes back to my original problem of me having to release the fuel pressure in the first bleeder valve again when I turn it off in order to start it. Ruled out the shutoff solenoid now. The second I open the bleeder and let the pressure out it starts right up but if I don't it has to sit for an hour until it will start up
Well, you didn't rule out the solenoid, until you put a good one on.
I bench tested it and it works perfectly fine. Strong pull in and releases fine too
Well, ALRman is one of the most experienced Case guys on here, and you thought enough of his experience to spend $45 and change it. Now you are getting another one for free, I'd sure install it before I declared it not to be it.
WHAT inj pump is on this thing.?!!! Bosch VE.. Delphi DPA..???
sounds like the return line and fittings from injector pump to fuel tank is not opening to relieve pressure KISS KEEP IT SIMPLE SIMON
I honestly think that is what it is the return lines. When it doesn't start and I crack the line open there is alot of pressure then it stops and then it will start right up. I wonder if it is going to be an injector pump issue or a clogged line.
COULD BE LINE IS CLOGGED/ LINE PINCHED OR THE BANJO FITTING THAT CONNECTS LINE TO FUEL SYSTEM GOOD LUCK TRY WITH LINE LOOSE AT WHERE IT CONNECT TO FUEL SYSTEM NOT THE FUEL TANK,,,,,, BE CAREFUL WHEN TAKING THE BANJO FITTING OFF,, PROBABLY HAVE BALL AND SPRING IN IT
Exactly what I was thinking Steve but I gotta know what inj pump to help w pinpointing..
Not totally sure. I want to say it's the Bosch? It's a 580k phase 1
Pull the return connection off the pump.. if it’s a Bosch VE then the banjo bolt is a restricted fitting.. blow it out w compressed air.. It’s possible that the return line goes back into the filter.. If it’s a Delphi DPA.. the connector that screws into the front flange of the pump has a check ball in it.. Lots of problems with them.. They stick & pressurize the pump housing & usually blow out the front seals..
OK Thank you will look at it in the morning. Hopefully it's something relatively easy.
Which line here would be the return line that might be clogged?
It is the line that goes from one injector to another and has the tees in it.
OK so that small line on top. You suggest just taking it off the injector pump and just blowing compressed air through it?
That looks like it says Lucas Cav on the side of it, and that's the style of pump, so I'm not sure if Thepumpguy's suggestion on the return fitting on the bosch still applies or not. If it does, take the FITTING out of the top of the pump, and clean that out, in addition to the line. Post some more pics if you can, they don't have to be high quality, 1meg or less if plenty, a couple angles on every component in the fuel system will go a long way toward good answers.
usually, a clogged return line will give you a machine that starts, runs a second or 2, and shuts off, over and over. I've never seen a machine run with a clogged return, that doesn't mean it can't happen, but I've never heard of it.
Yes it says Lucas cav pump.ill try to upload them in better quality
Here is more
Ok it’s a CAV DPA PUMP.. The return connector is the 1 closest to the front of the pump.. w the larger 9/16-14mm line nut u need to remove..
OK so here is my update. I took the large return line out, blew it out with air and cleaned up the little ball and spring that is in the fitting going into the pump. Also have the old shutoff solenoid on still and it seems to be good. Tested for a little while and it starts right up even after it being in high idle for an extended period of time. Thank you for all that have helped with this. I am hoping that this fixes the issue. So far so good!
YOU ARE WELCOME! GLAD TO HELP REMEMBER KISS=== KEEP IT SIMPLE SIMOND lol
Glad it seems fixed.. Dont forget about that return fitting w the spring & ball in it.. Theres a lot of them out there that "no longer have that spring & ball".. {wink} There may have been something in it somewhere down the line & u blew it out.?? Happy Tractoring..
Is there any point of that spring and ball in that valve?
its a check valve to prevent back flow from tank fuel from injector hits the ball first spring keeps ball close when not using,, try without ball and spring
I ran the machine today for a while to take a tree down and clean some stuff up. No issues at all between starts and stops to when I would 100 percent have had to open that line up every time in the past. I guess I will leave that ball and spring in for now since everything works great now. If I have an issue again in the future I will be taking it out.
It needs to be there a functioning properly.