Yesterday I had enough of the ongoing upgrades to run the 580 for a bit to make some repairs on the lane. After about one hour of work it blew a steering hydraulic line going to the control valve. It had rubbed though from contact with the frame. I moved it about 75 feet with oil spraying and I got it out of the way to a spot for the repairs. Lost about 3 gallons of oil. What a mess ! There is still plenty of oil in the Hyd. tank. Today I removed the steering control valve and all of the 5 hoses that are attached to it. The valve was leaking and I figured now is a good time to fix it and replace all the hoses. I used the metal caps and plugs I have to seal the removed lines from the hydraulic system. I thought I would start it at idle just enough to raise and lock the boom but there was no hydraulics at the BH Rear control valves. With the two steering lines removed and plugged at the Loader control and the one that returns to the hydraulic filter capped off, will this stop the Rear controls from working?? Nothing was leaking. It ran at idle for about 15 seconds and I shut it down when it would not respond. Hoping that did not cause another problem. Any thoughts??
I think capping the filter off blocked the flow to your valve.
OK, so all new hoses and the steering valve kit can in yesterday. I have the service manual and the section on the steering valve rebuild printed out. Did some studying and ready to dig in. Are there any tips or tricks I should know about?? Never did one before and have to admit... am a little nervous. Lots of little parts in there! It WAS working, just leaking.
HELP!! Today it was 70 degrees here and I went after putting the resealed steering valve and hoses back in the 580SL. As stated I was nervous because I worked on a somewhat similar system back in the late 70's. It was a struggle. I thought the repairs on this valve went smoothly and I was 80% confident it would work. I did not go too deep into the valve, just enough to change the seals. The service manual was clear but it did not address the small center hose or the allen wrench port outlined in by squares in the pictures below. These were not on the valve pictured in the manual either. Also no seal was supplied for this port in the seal kit. Part numbers for the seal kit and valve seem correct. Installed on machine and it is not function properly. Seems to need some adjustment but there is nothing in the service manual about adjustment. Has anyone done one of these and knows how to adjust it. Thanks, Roger
I don't have the SL service manual, but, the 580L manual has detailed instructions for checking and setting the pressure. If they use (a big maybe) the same unit I can send you the pages.
I have a cd service manual but did not see set up instructions or trouble shooting. I’ll look again. Thanks
Read further in your manual Highwayg. Under one of those allen bolts is a check valve assembly.
Yep, Had that out and new orings from the kit. Re-torqued plug to 100 in/lb. Messed with it today but no luck. Still the same. Looks just like my manual. Notice the manual pics, only has one Allen plug. Mine has two. I guess I'll have to call the factory or dealer. Hope someone there can help. Thanks BTW.. when I put the steering valve back in the rear hydraulics started working again. There must be a steering priority on it.
I found a section in the manual on trouble shooting that I had missed before. Actually, it is in there twice. Probably because these are double trouble! Didn't get time to study it yet. I won't be able to get back to it for a while, as I'll be away for work and with the weather..?.. I have the machine tarped over for now. I'm open to any ideas at this point. Thanks, Roger
Look at page 5002-16
Yes, #28 relief valve, "Do not remove Factory set" I Have a feeling that may be it. Unfortunately, I had to remove it as it was a source of one leak. Needed a new oring. Pretty simple, not much to it. A spring and cap/Allen plug. Nothing else. Need to figure out how it is reset. I can change things with it but still does not seem correct. As stated it worked before, just leaked, so it should work again if set up right, But how is the million dollar question? Thanks
Alrman, Melben and Coy will prolly be looking at this before long. If you are in a hurry send a PM to them. They will get an email notification with the message attached.
Thanks, No hurry, I'll be traveling a good bit for work over the next few weeks. I'll go through the trouble shooting to see where I stand.
The steering relief is adjusted at the inlet section of the loader control valve. (items #7-18) This is also where the steering priority valve (#2) lives. It is possible that the priority spool was sticking in the bore - thus preventing the pressure going to the loader hydraulics - & now is stuck preventing pressure getting to steering. However, the steering orbitals are very intricate & if it hasn't been put together correctly - well, it just won't work...... I am assuming your problem is that the steering wheel is heavy & there is no power assist?
I was very careful when rebuilding the valve and did not dismantle the orbital. I only removed it and replaced the seal (#22) on the end and reinstalled. I have pressure at the steering valve. Felling heavy is one way to put it. When input is added from the steering wheel to the valve to turn right/left it will fight back the opposite direction until the steering wheel is released, allowing it relax and go to a neutral. If that makes sense. Thanks
Not that this is going to help but, I learned a long time ago that those orbitals aren’t worth resealing. They always seemed to be a pita afterwards.
That sounds like the commutator isn't timed right.
Nothing in the parts diagram. What is the commutator and how do you time it?
Help Please? So any other ideas?? I can't find anything on a commutator that seems appropriate. Is it like a frabisator or a muffler bearing?? Would air in the valve/lines cause the failure? Hydraulic dieseling?? In hind site I wish I had purged the lines. With 400+ views here, has someone had an experience with a steering valve? The manual has a rebuild section so they must figure they can be repaired. The dealer is $800+ for a new valve and I can't be sure it will fix it. Plan 'B' is somewhat drastic. Thanks
Maybe go back to the basics and make sure that all hydraulic lines are going to the right places?
Thanks, Was very careful with lines and rebuild. Used colored tie wraps as you can see in the postings. Took pics and videos of line placement with the colored ties before removing. Checked, double checked and triple checked the lines.
The orbital is basically a hydraulic motor. Do you have the correct pressure at stall?
Can't turn the steering wheel to stall as the valve will fight back. It seems to me that some sort of check valve in the circuit has failed or an adjustment of some sort that would allow more input pressure from the steering wheel. Just guessing at this point
Well, don’t buy the dealer part unless you have to. Google Charlynn distributors in your area and give them that tag number on your unit. It may save you some money. There are so many of these orbitals out there and several different types of builds depending on application. I would say at this point you have nothing to lose by going ahead and retracing your previous steps. As long as you have oil flow to the orbital, it should work providing there isn’t leakage in the system. I’m of the opinion you have low flow to the orbital or some type of leakage internally preventing proper operating pressure. If you can check flow to the orbital with a flow meter would be ideal. At least you would know what you are working with which would lead you in the proper direction. I will tell you from experience with these. I have in the past attempted to reseal or rebuild 3 of these......with ZERO success. I pulled plenty of hair out doing this same crap your doing. After the last one, I replace them without a second thought, even if the only issue is leaks. It always ends up being cheaper......and healthier. If you decide to replace the unit. I would go ahead and tear down your old one. It is a great learning experience you won’t get again.
Is there any chance that the ball(#10)and / or retainer are not installed correctly ? Also did you notice in the parts list, item #28 says ---> Do Not Remove. If you did, . ?
Thanks, Looking for any and all ideas for when I go back to it. I do plan to retrace all If done, including taking the valve back apart to check.
I am sure the valve was put together correctly. I was VERY careful and went by the manual to the letter. Those pins, springs and balls are anti cavitation valves. I am thinking that air in the lines may have caused a malfunction in this or some where else. Yes #28 was explained in previous post. I think it's the adjustment they are protecting with that statement. Pulling the valve for repair is a PITA as requires all 5 hoses to be removed at there source and come out with the valve. Install requires a helper to install the bolts from inside the cab while the valve is held in place from the engine compartment. Can't move it so working outside and weather is not very friendly right now. Thanks
I would agree that there are many out there and while different variations, I suspect the basic function is the same. That's why I am surprised that there isn't more feedback on this or previous posting on steering valve repair. Do they really have that little trouble??
My experience has been that it’s not cost effective to reseal/rebuild those units......that may be most others feelings on it. The orbitals are very fickle and have to be perfect to operate correctly. There is little room for error.
Your right on the cost effectiveness considering labor rate these days. Parts changing ends up more common than repairing. I don't need this machine right now so it's turning into that learning experience. Education is also expensive! I know, and have a Masters from the University of Hard Knocks . Even have the T shirt!! https://www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/3...ViJ6zCh2h5gt7EAQYAiABEgJKEfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds I like a challenge and maybe I can learn and help someone with this down the road. I have a few things to try before I throw in the towel.
Its a 5 line... the 5th being a signal line to the priority valve? What do you have at the inlet compared to the signal output when its fighting back? Can you steer with the axle off the ground.. engine off ... engine on
Thanks for the reply. I don't have answers to your questions right now and I'll be away for work all this week. I'll do my best to check that next weekend and post what I find. I appreciate the help! Roger
There are 2 restricted fittings on the steering orbitrol they go to the steering cylinders make sure you did not mix them up, also this is a pass thru orbitrol so fluid from pump passes thru to help power backhoe, or also referred to as power beyond.
Work and the weather have not permitted me to get back to this. Thanks to all, I have a few more ideas to try. Hoping to get back on it a day this week.
SO... It's been a while, but I finally had some time to work with this steering some today. It was sugessted to check the steering cylinder for internal bypass and it checks OK. I don't have a flow meter, but with the orbital valve return line off at the hydrauilc filter, RED arrow, the orbital valve is flowing pass through at a reasonable rate without any steering operation. At engine idle, there is not excessive pressure noticed on the open line from the orbital valve draining into a bucket. I suspect low pressure, have a test kit and will do some presure checks after the Holiday. With that line off at the filter, at idle, oil gushed out of the open filtting on the filter housing, 10x the flow rate(and seemingly more pressure) than what is coming from the open orbital valve line. The diagram seems to show a check valve there, RED circle at arrow . Should there be any oil coming from this open fitting of hydraulic filter housing?? I don't think this is the whole problem, but one step at a time. Thanks!
Do not know if this machine is the same as my 580D I resealed the orbital just the shaft seal, but pulled all the fittings out to put new rings on. Realized that 2 of them where restricted by design. Reading the manual, I found out the 2 restricted are for the steering cylinders, Found the correct port and everything was good. If I had not noticed them and placed them elsewhere it would have been a nightmare trying to figure it out.The orbital is a pass thru design to allow the steering pump to add to the backhoe function for fluid volume. The little steering cylinders require very little flow. When not steering the flow goes to the backhoe.Check all the basics first.
Thanks, I will double check the hose fittings. If they are restricted fittings then they are built right into the original hose ends. The hoses screw right into the orbital, no adapter, makeing the valve a PITA to remove as the 5 lines have to be removed at their origin and removed while still attached to the orbital valve.
Long overdue update……. Problem fixed….. I’ll try to summarize this thread here. I had a steering line blow and had to take the steering valve out of the 580SL to replace the line because they were not removable with the valve in place. Since the valve was leaking I decided to reseal it. Didn’t go too deep in the valve, just what was leaking. But one of the places it was leaking was an adjustment for the valve pressure that the manual says ‘Do Not Adjust’. I had to remove this adjustment screw to put in new seals so I counted turns in and out thought I put it back in the correct position. I was nervous about this because previous experience on something similar let me know that the adjustment is critical on these type steering valves. A quarter turn either way makes all the difference. Well I had all kinds of problems with steering when I put it back together and the machine was unusable. Asking everywhere for help, the only answer that really made sense was to replace the valve. I suspect that would have worked, but at $1400, my retirement finances held me back and I wasn’t really sure that it was going to fix the problem since the valve worked previously. So this project sat for a while. Last fall I ran into an old friend and we were talking and he recommended a local shop, Cryile Industries, that I had drove past many times but I didn’t know they did hydraulic work. They are also apparently the supreme machine shop of the area. Super friendly and helpful people there. I spoke with Andrew in the components department and he assured me that could handle this. I dropped off the valve with all the hoses attached and in 10 days I picked it up ready to go, dismantled, inspected, pressure set and bench tested. Andrew said the only thing that was off is the pressure setting. And all for only $157! I was elated! I recommend them highly! I didn’t have the means to pressure set and test the valve. And note that the valve adjustment cannot be done with the valve in place on the machine. I had talked to many locals to get some help and no one ever mentioned Cryile, but several did offer to buy the machine. Seems a little suspicious. Needless to say I took several cases of beer as a gift and one to consume for the visit as a thank you to my old friend! So far the steering has been working perfect. Thanks to all that helped on this, and I hope this is beneficial to someone in the future.