A friend of mine who owns an automotive body shop and I rent a hobby garage from has a Case 580 xx backhoe. He took the windows off the cab to do some restoration work and realized he was in over his head. I have been waiting for him to paint one of my cars for two years now, with free time due to covid-19 I asked him all summer to paint the car so I could reassemble it before the weather gets bad. As winter got closer he started bugging me to repair the backhoe. He thought a few new pieces welded to the fenders would do the job. I told him the backhoe is worse than it looks and more needs to be replaced. I told him I need an 8'x4' sheet of 1/8" metal plate, he dragged out some 1/8" plate he had sitting behind the building, it was coated in white house paint and rusted under the paint, I told him I can't plasma cut painted metal so he sandblasted one side poorly. There was enough metal on the left rear lower horizontal beam to make templates and there was enough material on the front right lower horizontal beam also, the rest was rotten. I fabricated the left and right rear lower horizontal beams with partial fenders out of the rusty painted plate metal, it didn't cut well or weld nicely. Right side piece
Did you have a question? Curious why you're doing the work if he owns the body shop?
After welding the left side piece I told him the bottom of the fenders are rotten, both fenders where repaired with sheet metal, self tapping screws, seam sealer and urethane if he wants it to be safe the fenders have to be replaced, I knew the floor was also rotten but he wouldn't listen. After removing the left fender it was clear whats remains isn't enough to weld to. The right side was even worse I wanted to use a 4'x8' sheet of 1/8" and to replace the floor in one piece, I would weld new structure supports under the floor, cut out the inspection plate holes, wheel wells, lever linkage and coolant holes and lower in a new floor. He refused, I told him this would be the least expensive, best and fastest way to repair the floor, he refused. He wanted me to repair patches around the good metal, I refused, I also refused to work with any more rusted painted metal. The job required a sheet of 16gauge for the fenders, 1/8" sheet for the floor, 2"X1/4" bar for the floor lip, 1"x1" square tubing for the door sills and 2" L bracket 1/4" thick as sub floor support.
Floor supports
Right side
I guess you're showing your restoration skills. It certainly looks like you know what you're doing, I'd tell the owner how it's getting done period! If he wants to do it a different way, he can do it himself. If he's the paint expert he probably wouldn't appreciate you telling him how to paint. I'd also tell him get after your car. I've run into this before. Someone wants you do them a favor yesterday but when it's their turn to help you they have a zillion excuses and it takes forever. Many friendships have been ruined by this.
Really I am just posting to share the work I am doing on the Backhoe. The only question I would have is does anyone have any pictures of the right side fender interior, I have searched for a while but can't find anything helpful, looking for the location to mount the cluster and rear leaver (no I don't know what the lever does) it was bolted to the rotten fender with a homemade bracket, I will weld proper mounting points to the fender it can bolt to. The reason I'm doing the work is because we live in Quebec Canada, we can substitute body shop for collision center, they can swap and tack weld panels, rockers, box sides and patches, pull frames, they can fiberglass, bondo, sand, paint and swap parts. None of this will help them repair the backhoe. In his defense across the river in Ottawa one of the largest body shops refuse to change rockers or repair rust. I am not a welder or metal fabricator but I would rather fabricate or repair things than replace them. My last job under guise of an apprentice industrial millwright, working in large buildings I was an Hvac tech, electrician, plumber, pipe fitter, insulator, lab systems tech, tin banger, systems and controls tech, rigging and building demolition manager, welder, custom equipment fabricator, abatement, electric motor re builder... I didn't assist anyone doing this, I figured it out as I went, learned to use Oxy torches/ silfos braze and use a Tig with aluminum from a video, learned to cut 3 inch steel with a 2" range plasma cuter on site... I have worked on, customized, modified and repaired cars for many years and felt anything done in a building must be easier and it was. Did this for 16 job years until the company Xanth closed (small company, owner retired), the best part about the job was constantly doing something new and this kept me inspired to always do my best (within budget and time constraints), I feel how well you do things represents you as a person, a half ass job is never worth doing. I would plagiarizer the other work done in the building and make mine look better. People took pictures, loved our work, showed it off to their superiors, professional inspected it... I will be honest when you show up and have to guess how to do something for the first time and it's then scrutinized by an expert you get a bit nervous but when they ask you how you did the job that way instead of why you did it that way alleviates all stress. I had an advantage over all the other trademens experience and that was NO EXPERIENCE, no one trained me so I never learned a certain way of doing something I had the advantage of looking at the way all other things where done, using the best and replacing the worst. My skill is to visualize and test ideas and confirm or dismiss their possibility in my mind within 99% accuracy, that 1% is the unknown, the thing you missed or can't be seen, 1% is easily improvised when 99% is structured. Than I just follow the steps I visualized and often work on autopilot. Because of this he figured out of all the people who don't do this kind of work and charge proper prices for this kind of work, but could figure it out and do a proper job without cutting corners and he could nag, blackmail... I was the sucker. This is the first time I work with curved and rounded 3 dimensional shapes, and the first time I have to match existing anything, so I don't do this kind of work and have never done it before. In my defense I have nothing to curve and round metal with, he can't get the tires off and a jack on the tire bounces to much to roll metal over, he didn't care how the fenders looked and I'd been cutting, grinding, hammering and welding too long to argue. Oh and I ran out of construction paper and cardboard is no good for templates the fenders are made from several pieces matching the sizes I had left over. I am working with an old 120V Lincoln ark welder mig and 0.035 flux core wire, a powemax 30 plasma cutter, 1 angle grinder and a car trunk scissor jack. His shop has no vice or anvil, no English wheel, no sandbag, no metal brake and no portable lighting. So I think the job is coming along pretty well, I could do better but also feel I'm doing a better job than matters. I though I would share the effort with the only people I could think of that might appreciate it.
Looks to be coming along pretty nice. Not a simple job either.
My thinking is I am not enjoying doing this, possibly the most grinder dust and welding fumes I have ever inhaled, due to what I mentioned in my last post this is the minimum effort I will allow myself to put in to doing something. This is the first time I decided to do this work and most likely the last, because this backhoe replaces his snow plow that he hits everything in the parking lot with because he plows snow drunk, and the poor backhoe leaks oil and hydraulic fluid from multiple engine spots and all it's cylinders and the all the effort seems somewhat wasted, at least in the buildings when someone goes and replaces my work they will have to step up their game. I work on the backhoe following the mental planning focused and in the zone, stand back surprised at the results, pleased with the results. Wake up the next day coughing with a head ache wondering why I'm doing this the owner doesn't care about the backhoe and will drive it into the ground long before my work wears away, it will be used as a snow plow by a drunken idiot, I care even less about the backhoe. For the first time in my life (I'm 46) there is a feeling of pointlessness to my efforts, it only takes one person to appreciate something to make it worthwhile, that's why I think I posted this thread. I am looking to validate the effort, find purpose in it. I agree 100%, for 22years he has offered to paint on of my cars once I took him up on it years rolled by, after starting work on the backhoe and loosing patience, he put my car in his shop and moved it around for a month, when the weather turned it was to late to matter if he painted it, can't pull trim and harnesses in below 0 weather, so he painted the car last week, because he took to long to paint it I chose the most difficult color to paint the car, the color I wanted the most on this car, I told him how it was applied (the guy with the garage next to mine says he does worse work when told how he should do it), so I used reverse psychology for months asking him if he can paint this color and telling him it probably wont turn out like the dealer color does, combined with the work on the backhoe inspired him to prove me wrong, he had the whole shop prep the body for a full day and spent the next day painting it, it took him 9 coats of paint and more additives than he's ever used (pearl, metallic), he did his best paint job to date and managed to paint Lexus ultrasonic blue mica 2.0 dealer only exclusive better than the dealer. Achieving too much too late. But he surprised himself with the results of effort and surprised me with motivation and effort, he did have to look up the steps after starting the base coat and it not looking right.
Sounds like quite the idiot if he plows snow drunk.
Thanks for posting, everything, I own this model backhoe(L), I appreciate the work, and really like to see how you are doing the repairs. I also totally get the need(desire) to vent/share. I think many of the members who read here can appreciate that. also, on the right side, behind the loader control lever is the parking brake lever(If that is the lever you questioned previously).
I think this is the parking brake, I mentioned above.
I have a old 480c. My metal is in good shape, but I pulled the floor up because I had brake and parking brake issues. That was a job I do not want to repeat, the floor is not going back in one large piece. I am going to divide it up so I can pull sections and make it much easier to work on, and even be able to keep the cab heater in place while still be able to pull the floor up in the front to work on the brakes.
Thanks, yes there are a complex set of steps involved doing this with limited equipment, the right side is taking far less time than the left because I started at the floor and worked outward. The lever I'm curious about is the one pictured here floating on the back of the fender
Could it be for a boom lock?
This model has a large inspection plate in the front center of the floor, large in regards to the floor size but it would suck to have to work through the hole lying on the floor. The guy with the middle bay in the building does rust proofing and is willing to crawl under the loader and spray the floors with oil so I told him to spray them with paint, he told me he doesn't know how to paint, I said "you know how to spray oil and coat all the metal, do it with paint first", he told me his painting wont turn out nice and he would rater just rust treat it. Spraying oil on bare metal on the bottom side of a loader used in the winter vs painting the metal first would shorten it's life span by 80% or more, it would probably start rusting within 6months. Painted metal only starts rusting after the paint stops protecting it. I insisted and it will be painted. I hear you on not wanting to repeat certain jobs. During most of this job the backhoe had to stay mobile and got moved all over the place, I would show up in the late afternoon to work on it and it would be in a new spot crammed in the crowded garage, one weekend it was stuffed in the small central garage, single car bay with a hoist, the loader just fit, the door opened 14" before touching the hoist post. After getting the left floor piece in and half the fender, the next day everything was covered in mud from moving cars around in the rain. I gave him **** so he wiped it down with a rag. He though I was going to cut and weld the right side floor without having to remove the seat. When I asked him to have one of his stooges remove the seat he tried to show me where I had room to cut and weld under the seat, I told him he's an idiot and had to remove the seat myself the next day, he figured if he didn't remove it I would work around it. The constant stupidity and lack of adequate work space have made this far more challenging than the task actually is or needs to be.
Yes I think that's it, someone welded a plate to it with two wholes in it, cut (butchered) another 1/4" plate and bolted the bottom plate through the fender to the lever. If I could find a picture of it's location I can weld mounting brackets to the loader for it and a better bracket on the lever and also figure out where to mount the utility panel on the fender. Does anything go between the floors lower lip and loader frame behind the wheels, like a rubber strip or mud guard to keep stuff from building up under the floor?
OK, so that looks like the throttle control cable , used when facing backwards using the hoe. There shouts be a lever that goes up through , next to(and rearward) the gauge panel. The key is directly above the throttle. The boom lock is a short lever actuated by your foot. It’s next to the lever control station, used with your right foot while facing backwards.(using the hoe)
After just looking closer at the pictures, I think this is a model M, not L. A picture of the front hood would help with positive id, not hat it really matters. Also, I think I see a curved bottom edge on the gauge cluster, that would make it an M, the L has a rectangular gauge panel.
Ok, so after looking at the Case parts online, and looking at the M series. I think the cable in question is the boom lock. I did not know it was different from the L. Sorry for the confusion. Here’s a pic from the Case site.
The inner fender
A few more pics.
Sorry, not sure what happened there of how to edit the duplicates.
Rust proofing or spraying with undercoating or box liner might be better than painting. Would have to do some research to see what works the best long term.
I asked him today and it's the throttle lever. The model is 580 SM. Finished welding up the right fender and welded nuts under the floor for the rear inspection plate and made a new plate. All that's left to do is weld a small patch on the left side fender, weld two support brackets between the floor and rear pillars, weld in the bracket that holds the shovel controls and handbrake, mount the rear throttle lever. When I showed up today in an effort to finish the job so I can get some work done on my car, he asked me do to more work on the backhoe, he wants to change the valve cover gasket, belts, remove all the hydraulic cylinders and install new seals... I felt like kicking him in the nuts, he doesn't want to pay what the work is worth. I did the work on the backhoe at 30$ an hour + materials, supplies and consumables a bargain anywhere. I am not doing mechanical work on a backhoe for 30$ an hour. Anyone change the seals in hydraulic cylinders before? He found a place that will change them for 300$ + seal kits, If it doesn't require special tools or equipment and I can rebuild 2 a day, that would be a job worth doing. The car is stripped down to the body, the rear triangle glasses are out, the tail lights are off, the mirror are off, there are no door moldings or trim next to the windows, the handles are off, the car is outside and snow is coming. I did coat the floors, trunk, engine bay, wheel wells, rad support and more in POR 15 after bringing everything down to bare metal but I still don't want the car to fill with snow.
Actually painting first would make any three of those options last longer. Rust proofing/undercoating evaporates and dries, it also builds up dirt that will absorb moisture and cause bare metal to rust. Gravel guard is almost the worst thing to put on bare metal, once moisture gets between it and the metal it's held their and rusts faster, it's great at protecting properly painted surfaces from abrasion but good paint is required to protect the metal from the gravel guard, the same with rhino liner or hypo roll on liner, a small uncoated spot can spread moisture a few inches every year. Mostly these options are to protect paint form abrasion. The best thing would be a two part epoxy industrial paint, 2nd would be POR 15. But more important than quality paint is proper preparation before application. Marine clean degreaser and metal ready acid etching spray before paint would prep the unreachable metal for paint properly. I have not found any paint product in a spray can that holds up to abrasion and binds to metal properly, the only thing I have seen hold up somewhat well was Duplicolor (terrible paint) caliper paint, the guy I used to rent my garage with did his front calipers rusted with duplicolor caliper paint, I sandblasted a set, out gassed them, chemically cleaned them and put two coats of powder coat on them, the duplicolor on rust almost lasted as long. However I latter started using super durable clear powder coat and baking cast iron parts longer than aluminum or steel and it became much more durable. But I doubt much will stand up to the liquid sodium chloride (salt brine) they now spray on the roads. I have seen it corrode through aluminum, stainless steel and copper quickly.
For $300 just have HIM take the cylinders in and have them done. If he's trying to cheap out on everything why keep doing more work for him? Cylinders can be a pain if you've never done them and the gland and rod nuts can be extremely tight. You aren't this guy's personal servant. It sounds like he is kind of blackmailing you. Is he working on your car while you are working on his backhoe or his waiting for you to finish everything (while adding more stuff) on his backhoe before he gets to your car? He certainly doesn't sound like much of a friend and maybe it's time to look for a different shop to rent. He can find someone else to fix his backhoe. As far the bottom of the cab Endura would probably have a good option but it requires very specific procedures. Very durable when done right though. Endura Paint - Leading manufacturer of epoxy and polyurethane
It is quite easy doghead ! Just click the edit button on your reply and each image will be in it's own pair of brackets. Click your mouse on one or as many you want to delete and highlight them. Then hit your keyboard backspace key and they are gone. You can also (after highlighting them) right click with your mouse and select delete or cut.
He asked me six months ago to rebuild the cylinders, I said no. Now he wants to pay me to pull them off so he can send them in for rebuilds. I figured I would rater rebuild them for 300$ each and do all 10 in 5 days than get paid 30$ an hour to remove them. I prefer piece work (by the job) to an hourly rate. I am good at planning and working efficiently allowing me to get more done without working any harder or moving any faster than others. Really I don't want to work on the mechanical or cylinders on this loader. I have made him go elsewhere to have work done many times, he had me install new baseboard heaters in his house, I charged him 30$ each and swapped all ten in 2.5 hours, he bitched and whined that I overcharged him. When he had them swapped in his rental home in front of the shop I refused and he had to use his electrician at 100$ an hour, he swapped 6 in 5 hours, he wined about the cost and complained I didn't do them, I told him after the last time I did baseboard heaters for him he went on about the price for weeks, he can keep paying his electrician more to do a worse job. Than he claims I charged more than his electrician per hour for baseboards even though he paid less for more work. One of his employees moves like a slug and the other gets stuff done, he pays them both the same salary, he states an hour is an hour, I told him to fire the slug, find someone who's really good and pay him twice the slugs salary for 3 times the work. As far as the car goes he has painted it as mentioned on page 1, he had everyone in the shop spend a full day on it, him and 3 employees, I know they cost 160$ each a day + his time, electricity, material, no income for a day... The painting was free, I pay the paint. He really did surprise me with the paint job. All the paint booth lights on with flash: Most paint booth lights out with flash: Most paint booth lights out no flash: View attachment 229574 It's a different color blue in every light shade. Looks even better outside. As far as changing shops, well I pay 500$ a month + 75$ tax, I have 12 cars there (2 are in the garage), I used to rent the small bay also and have a 12' x 14' storage room for 750$ a month, He purchased a moving truck so I could store parts in. He has been offered 1600$ for my garage and turned it down. The guy renting the small bay pays 1000$ a month. 8 of the cars I have there are parts cars but I am out of room to store the parts, I have been searching for a deal on a 40foot shipping container, he will let me put it there for free weather or not I rent a shop from him. Besides 30$/hour cash is about 45$/hour on the books.
Finished the work on the backhoe last night, everything but the rear throttle lever. He pulled out the plastic molding for the right side of the backhoe, I was hoping this would help me position the lever, it didn't help and seems like the lever doesn't go on the fender at all. This is the lever and under bracket that was on the fender: This is the molding sitting on the fender: This is about the spot the lever was bolted to the fender: It really doesn't look like it should go on the fender at all.
A few pictures of the finished job:
To Welder Dave, Doghead and everyone else, your help, suggestions, diagrams, info and feedback is much appreciated. Finding a place someone might appreciate the effort gave the job some purpose. Lots of the things I have built/fabricated have been boring like building a sandblast cabinet or fabricating a wall mount quick remove jib crane, but I see it as an opportunity to make something that's more functional or durable or that suits the application better than anything available. With this backhoe that reason was not there, all I saw was lots of rust, metal dust and welding fumes. Leaving one last reason, Do a good job because that's what I do. My plan was use a bodywork dolly to a steal rod, weld the central fender piece to the outer piece and curl the metal over the dolly until it meets the inner fender, but he couldn't then wouldn't remove the wheels. He didn't care how the fenders look, but I do. The quality of my work reflex me not him. Then he put the backhoe in a crammed space that made doing any kind of work on the backhoe more of a challenge than doing a good job with adequate work space would have been. Out of frustration and disdain I let the inner fender warp and just welded whenever the two pieces made contact no longer caring about the shape. After that night I felt like the only reason I had for doing the job was taken away. And although I remained focused the work seemed tedious. Posting the work here gave it some meaning no matter how insignificant this thread is and that made the job easier, of course by then I had to match the parched wavy left fender when doing the right side even though I had the room and the opportunity to do a much better job. It's scary how simple state of mind can make things go from easy and smooth to requiring more effort and work to achieve the same or less results. I can focus and still do good work when angry, stressed, sick or tired but it's so much nicer when things flow instead of having to push them. Or I'm subconsciously making excuses for doing a ****** job on the fenders because I know I could have done a better job.
Can't the owner of the backhoe do anything himself? I bet he likes operating it, repairing or maintenance not so much. I still think he's taking advantage of you. You'll end doing thousands of dollars of work for him to save a few hundred on rent. Why can't he take the cylinders off? How do you have time to do any of your own stuff?
I was thinking why you put up with this *******. Cheap rent I get but it is costing you a ton of your time. You could pay full price and do this type of work for hire and use the money to pay rent. Then you wouldn’t be a slave to your so-called friend.
Mazda, I know first hand how big a project you bit off. Check out my project 580K that resembles yours HeavyEquipmentForums I couldn't imagine doing all that work even for someone else who appreciates it...let alone for someone who doesn't. I did it for myself and had enough trouble staying motivated at times! I totally understand wanting to do a good job if your name is going to be on it. Mine is in the woods on my own property and I wanted to do it the best I could.
Mazda, what part of Quebec are from.