I am looking at a drott 40 excavator with a 504 engine but has a rod knocking. After some research I see that it was also available with 4-71 Detroit. Does anyone know if I could put a 5.9 Cummins in it, and/or what problems I would encounter doing so? I have a goodcummins already and this excavator is in nice shape and the price is right if I can use the engine I have thanks in advance for any advice you guys might have.
You can do anything with a torch and a welder, go for it
Unless you have a machine shop or cheap machinist it will probably be cheaper to fix what you have
Ha. I used to have the torch and welder attitude but have since mellowed with age. If the bell housing won't bolt right in, probably too time consuming at this point. Don't mind making a few motor mounts or brackets but trying to reengineer the whole engine compartment would be out of my wheelhouse.
Is your 5.9 a truck engine or industrial? Industrial 5.9 take a quite a bit of modifications to use in a truck. I don't know if the reverse is true. Be a pity to do all that work if it doesn't work out. Someone here should know. I have a good running 4-71 power unit setting in the shed. Its runs well but was getting down on power when I changed it out. It is tired and needs freshening up. How is the center swivel on the old 40. If I remember correctly they became a chore when they got a bunch of hours on them.
What series is it A/B//D/E tracks or rubber on the ground. If it's a track machine you can snatch the pan and see what you have, crank or wrist pin. Could have had a pin hole in a liner and bent a rod or push rods bent also. Did you hear it run any?. They used two different pumps depending if it's a dd or case. It would have to be a real deal and a D/E series before I would invest time in a swap. The issue will be the bell housing, pump mounting cover, flex plate spline drive, pump drive coupler, and flywheel center bushing, fan shrouding.
My 5.9 was out of a pickup. Anymore, I would just be up for an easy swap and if there is going to be a bell housing issue, that would leave me out, not to mention all the other stuff. I have access thru the guy who owns the excavator now to a 4-71 but who knows if the bell housing is the same even though the detroit was used in this model. I have looked into cranks and other engines and the 504 is more common than I thought so undoubtedly its going to be cheaper to fix the engine thats in there. Sheepfoot: It is a track machine, I did not hear it run like this. A friend of mine has it and said he shut it down immediately because he wanted to be sure he could load it later if need be. What do you mean is it a dd or a case? It has both decals. drott and case. Why the d/e series? Is it better to get parts for or more reliable? I am not real familiar with excavators. i am on a farm with a lot of trees and thought if I could get in this thing for 5-6k It would be handy to have around the farm to push out trees and dig up stumps. He had spent over 5k rebuilding the hydraulic cylinders but i havn't asked anything about the pivot bearing yet. I read those can be an issue with this machine. Local tractor salvage does have a 504 said I can hear it run for a reasonable price.
It is a Ce model but what does that mean?
What I interpreted was that the Case and DD(Detroit Diesel) engines had different pumps on them to suit the engine.
quick pic would help On the cab rt front corner outside you should see a tag that has the model and s/n, this would help to id your machine your looking at. These machine were made under drott/case drott/case. I have see them listed as a B machine when it's a A and B machines listed as a E. Seen only one machine with a C in nc but the parts books do not list it. 40CE crawler/ e boom like a normal trackhoe boom. They made a Y boom, cylinder under the boom for the stick with a adjustable position, and a logger version that was a heavy stick used for cutter heads. The dd I said was a Detroit diesel. The pump drive is almost the same to the flywheel as with the case engine. The dd turns at 2300 rpm and the case at 2100 rpm giving it around 10 gpm more hyd flow. You can still find parts new, used and bone yards for them. They are a simple machine to work on with no big high tech issues to deal with. The reason I said D/E series was some of the changes that were made to them. The e had a single swing cab door, both had the option of two speed walking motors, power sensing of the hydraulic pumps, heavier final drives and pillar block bearings on the axle drives, the boom/stick/cylinders/pins/links were also heavier, better seating and joy stick controls. We had a 40bec at work up until three years ago, it was not a speed demon but would clear/dig/grade. If your working for yourself and can get in cheap, sound of no payments is good. Now that that's said lets talk about some issues, the 40E machines were last produced in the early 80's and that would be min of 35 yrs ago, with a A series 20+ years before that, we are at 55+ on a A. We keep hearing about all the drott issues with the finals and swing systems but overall they moved a lot of dirt and dug a lot of pipe in there years. If you don't grease the pillar block bearings, check the fluids in the final that's leaking out of the axle seals, check your swing bearing bolts upper and lower, check the oil in your swing reducer gearbox, check the tightness of the three bolts that hold it in place, lube the open faced gears of the swing bearing and grease the swing bearing them you end up with problems. Yes you can strip sprocket splines, break an axle, strip an axle also, putting a new sprocket on worn axle splines = new stripped out sprocket very shortly, those axle and sprockets can be keyed at a good machine shop also for a fix. I like the old girls after starting on a pull shovel.
Wow. Thats a lot of good info. Thanks! I guess i am going to buy it but i havnt given him an answer yet. I am thinking i can either fix the 504 or come up with another 504 easier than i can put the different engine there. I thought they would be more rare but there is a local salvage that has one. I will check on some of the things you listed and see if i can add to my collection of rusty (paid for) equipment.
Just a quick list of machines with a 504: Tractors-1070, 1370, 1470, 1570, 2470, 2090, 2390, 2590, 4490, 2094, 2394, 2594, 3594 (I'm sure there are others) Dozers-1150D, 1450B, 1450C, 1450D. Excavators- 1080, 1080B, 1280, 1280B. Engines are fairly reasonable to overhaul. Biggest problem they have is the bottom counterbores like to crack. They can be fixed, not sure it's worth it unless you're doing a restore. Good luck.
So bought it after all. Engine runs great for a short time with a definite knock. Once it gets warm it starts to seize up. Was weighing my options, rebuild this engine, adapt a 5.9 Cummins or find another 504 case engine and a guy calls me with a whole tractor (1370) with a good engine for $2500. Should be able to sell the leftover parts of the tractor and recoup at least half the money for the engine. Was easy to get the old motor out and should be easy to get it going again. Machine is tight, without much wear so it looks like I will be in it right. Now if only I had a way to move it. Oh well, I have 200 acres right here with dead oak trees to take out and a multitude of stumps to dig out and bury so I will cross the transportation issue when that is completed.
I like your engine hoist. I have a 1285, it's got a 504 as well, it's down for want of a hydraulic pump. Making replacement body from Dura Bar (got some machine tools). Shame to bust apart a good tractor for parts, but you gotta do what you gotta do I guess. Dad and I are big suckers for ** Case stuff. (Not sure why the forum is blocking Jerome Increase's initials).
I do hate to split a tractor that is working just for the engine but local salvage yard wants more for just an engine than I can buy a whole tractor for. If there is anything you could use from the 1370 let me know because I will be scrapping it. The engine hoist is an old bantam truck crane my dad and brother got for free for removing it from someone's property. I didn't think a backhoe would lift it high enough to clear the excavator.
Well looks like a 40E from the door and front glass frame. I don't think any left the plant painted like that, most were a drott orange boom and stick and deck and the cab and sheet metal was drott white. They did away with the raised engine hood with the 1080 series. Like that engine hoist also. You will need to change the flywheel more than likely to install the flex plate and drive for the hyd pump. Should be a fun project!!.
Just got the parts book from the guy I bought it from yesterday and it is for series E machines sn. 6271140 and after and this machine is sn 6271146. The guy I bought it from had spent 15 k on replacing one cylinder and rebuilding the other two. It has define toy been repainted at some point. A local bridge construction company had owned the machine and possibly purchased it new and all their equipment I have seen was always well maintained. I am leaving this morning to get the tractor with the 504 in it. Hopefully that engine is in good condition. I still haven't cracked the other engine but I need to get in there and see what happened. I expect that electralosis allowed water in the crankcase and then in spun a rod bearing. I don't know about fun but it is definitely a project. It is much easier than my last two major projects. One was a Michigan 280 wheel dozer that I bought for $1000 dollars and had to replace the clutch packs in the transmission and later replaced the 8-71 engine with one from a truck I bought. After that I bought a 955k track loader with a hole in the side of the block and I pulled a engine out of a scrap machine and put in it. Funny part is I paid 1000 more for the scrap machine but the engine is best one on the place. So this project is a cake walk
UPDATE: so I put an engine in this machine out of a 1370 case tractor. Just got it running last week and runs great. Moved it 100 yards or so and the area where the hydraulic motor bolts to the final drive was smoking and extremely hot. Looking at the parts diagram, it appears the dig brake discs are in there. Does anyone know how the brake is released? I hope that is all it is. Everything else looks clean and tight but if anyone knows how this brake system works please fill me in.
If I'm right on the vintage, look for a small valve in the cab, three small hoses to it, the knob is round and flat, you push or pull it about a half inch. Brake valve.
On the 880B and 1080B, they are hydraulic applied, spring released. The 1080's have an electric toggle switch to set the brakes, the 880 has a push-pull knob like Lanway describes. Possibly you just forgot to pull up on the handle? On ours it was backwards from a truck brake valve.
The brakes are spring applied. You should have a toggle switch on the dash, I seem to think around 7 or 8 switches and it should be the last switch. The switch sends the currant to the mono block, and the solenoid allows oil to flow thru the top little swivel on the main swivel, down the inner piping and out to the line going to the rt and lt brakes. Most machines still running, are more than likely gutted in the brake housings. The brakes have been removed, and the housing is just used as a spacer with the drive coupler inside, with the hyd line plugged at the tee. Operator places a small wedge pile of dirt in front of each track to stop the pull to the ditch when digging inline with the track, would not want to be digging on a hill side, but that's what most do in a jam to move and still work as needed.
I had a 50/50. It's been 15 yrs since I worked on that old 1080B. I remember though, a couple times a year if you forgot to flip the toggle to release brakes before you moved, you would stick the brake discs together on one track or the other. Then you'd have to pull the drive motor off, take the brake housing apart, and free the discs. Of course the compartment would always be full of sticky, oil and grease-soaked dirt. Oh, the old days. I sure miss them. NOT SO MUCH.
Thanks for the help. I spoke to the guy that sold it to me and he told me it was a toggle switch on the panel but he also told me he had to plug off the brake on the other side because it was causing problems. I can't get the two speed travel to work either so I guess it's time to do some wiring. I don't suppose a wiring diagram exists out there??? I ordered a maintenance service manual from eBay but I don't know if it will have electric diagrams.
I will probably not be digging a lot of ditches, mostly pushing trees out. I can see those things getting gutted like you say. I can't even get the wedges and spools that hold the shanks in the bucket so I suppose tracking down the brake parts would be a joke. Sure would like to get that two speed to work though!!! Low speed pretty slow and the dead trees I want to take out are not close together!!