I don't suppose anyone might know offhand how to switch a pilot 225 from Cat to Deere controls? There are 8 pilot connections in the cab on either side of the seat at the bottom rear..... All experienced input is most welcome. Thank you - Lutjen.
225 what?
A 225 excavator.... By a Deere pattern I'm guessing its most known as "backhoe controlls" ? now I don't wanna sound rude but it might be cheaper all around to take your 225 out to a field somewhere and practice the other pattern I too started on "backhoe" style patterns and ever since I've ran excavators more and more its become more easier on excavator type patterns and honestly if I step into a backhoe now I look like a complete rookie. But if your dead set on it contact your local Cat dealer on possibly getting some pointers and advise on the change up or show you exactly what lines you need to switch and maybe befriend a good local hydraulics specialist to give you a hand if things get rough. Good luck
jd controls suck, why does jd think they are so cool they can have their on controls? i hate when people whine that they cant operate normal "cat" style controls like 99% of the rest of the world. i think your only option is to study the hose pattern and start switching hoses around
Plain and simple... if you can jump back and force from a excavator to a backhoe with out having to think about the controls or " retrain" your brain you are going to work more safe and more efficiant. I had a "I am a good operator" that ran ISO (cat) his whole life jump in our backhoe to go to a job and he was worthless!! The customer almost sent him home. I know here in north central pa and the general area most operators run SAE (john deere). We have pattern changers on all of our equipment now...even the backhoes. I am thankful I was given the gift to run equipment either ISO or SAE. Set the controls how you want them and like them. It is your machine.
I have no knowledge of cat 225s specifically, but I would think it would be easier to switch the pilot lines at the valve bank where they are pretty close together, rather than pulling the hoses around to switch them at the controls. the experts can correct me if I'm wrong. this year I decided to switch to cat controls from deere, I just find that more excavators have cat controls, and I don't run backhoes. so I thought it would be better to go with cat controls before the deere pattern was too imprinted in my brain, at first it was weird, but now its second nature.... I am glad I did it
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums lowboy driver. Nothing like starting things off on the right foot! Let me suggest you soften the tone of your posts in the future, you will be much better received here. John Deere is not the only manufacturer with a unique pattern, Case also has a backhoe pattern that is an option in other machines, as well as the old 4 stick pattern. I can sympathize with special tool, I can work much more quickly, safely and accurately with the J/D backhoe pattern than the Cat excavator pattern, no one should be condemned for that.
Where I work, the first excavator we owned was a John Deere 690E so our operators got used to those controls. We have since added Cat 325B, 330C, and a 385C as well as a Hitachi 200lc all of which have JD controls. I have switched control patterns on the 325 and on a few other hoes we've rented over the years, the Cat 300 series is fairly simple to change over, However, I have no experience with the older 200 series and I imagine they would be set up different.
Switch at the valve bank as said here.It might take you a couple trys and a little oil:usa,getting them in the right places.Good luck
That era 225 most likely doesn't have a diverter valve like the newer "300" series to switch back & forth. Your local Cat service department should be more than happy to fax you over a copy of the 4 lines you need to switch underneath the cab at the valve body to make the conversion. I obtained a copy recently for an older 307 and had to remove the panel underneath the operator's seat under the house, and switch 4 color-coded lines around. Very simple to do with the diagram, but if you don't have it and try to do it anyways, it could be a disaster. An outfit I used to work for tried it thinking the "mechanic" could figure it out, and 3 days later they had to call Cat and suck it up. They had it so fouled up, the swing was the boom, the boom was the stick, etc., and all they had to do was call in the first place to get the diagram. Call Cat with your serial # and they'll hook you right up. I just went to work for a new outfit that has 5 excavators...all Cats with John Deere controls. I would switch the valve and run it normally, then the other guy would switch it to JD and run it for 15 minutes, than I'd get in and AWWW...:Banghead back out and switch again. I was doing this with no exaggeration 10 times a day till I finally said I can't take it anymore...12 other guys aren't going to change for ME...so I retrained my brain one day when I was working by myself so I wouldn't kill anybody. Now I'm right at home again with the JD pattern, but I still say it's an un-natural act to run it that way. The boom on my right hand and curling the bucket at the same time with Cat pattern is a natural function to me. I was able to fine grade with Cat pattern easily because the stick was being worked with my left hand back then, but oh well... I still get in and have to think of the first "move" that first time in the morning, so I don't look like a moron. Hope that helped, good luck.
a topic close to my heart. i can rune a combination hoe with deere controls all day long and jump in an excavator with cat controls no problemo. put me in an excavator with deere controls and i am lost.
Why not have Cat or your self install a diverter valve so the pattern can be changed at will?
Over here We !!!!! Over here they have standardised all excavators from a.5t robot to what ever on the other end move the left control left to right excavator slews left to right move the left control forward or back dipper/stick moves in and out move the right control forward or back boom goes down or up move the right control left or right bucket crowds or opens so any trac excavator I put my bum in is the same setup Stock
Us old dogs can't change control patterns after 30 years, it's an easy change out at the valve bank like lowboy says. For my 2 cents worth, boom and swing on the left and bucket and stick on the right makes sense although the kids will argue with you on that. It's nice to see the new stuff with the pattern changers so you can have it your way.
i got into a rental kubota mini the other day that was setup with cat controls and was like learning how to walk all over again...i determined that i should be able to run both tho so after about an hour of looking like a new born giraffe on discovery i got the hang of it and i am better for the time spent
Hey thanks for all the replies, guys. Well of course some of you are right I should just practice the Cat so I can run both. Problem is (and this is honest) that I really enjoy having my old man (waaay over retirement age ) occasionally stoop to help me out on one of my jobs.....and there is no way in heck that I would get HIM to change, so I have an excuse for myself also. Lowboy - thank you for those suggestions, they are good.
That is also good thinking, thanks.
I didn't think of it quick enough as Dwan Hall had said...you could have a diverter valve installed easily enough so all you have to do is flip the lever every time a southpaw jumps in the cockpit, only thing is, (I just went through this until last week when I retrained my grey matter to JD again...)the next guy's never as courteous as the first. It's been a week since my rebirth, but I still have to think about the first initial move when I get in the saddle. It's an un-natural act----this John Deere deal....:thumbdown
Hello, special tool. I know I'm looking right at it, but it's just not sinking in... Give me a little help on... It can't be the the hour meter or the grab handle... and I can't tell what's laying by the seat... :beatsme Sorry for the bother... Regards, OCR
Or... is that handle with the round knob, on the seat pedestal, a pattern changer??? OCR
The handle with the big knob on the seat pedestal OCR is an adjuster for the seat. They didn't have all the creature comforts we have nowadays in those 200 series unfortunately. It was back & forth, a little backrest tilt, and a little tension adjustment for weight, that's about it. Now you get in them and the last dude has it reclined back to the window like he just finished watching My Big Redneck Wedding on his DVD player. What's laying by the seat. Under the hour meter, a grease gun. To the left of the gun, that little round knob pertruding up from the floorboard, I'm drawing a blank on. I want to say it's the master switch, but I can't recall. Been a couple years since I've sat in a 225/235.
I was responding to redlaker1's quote. The picture is just to show the line group behind the seat. The thing by the seat is a grease gun.:drinkup
Copy that, LowBoy. Thanks, rather obvious now... duh... OCR
And, thank you special tool. OCR
That's an easy one to miss, buddy. Say, are you near Great Falls? I've got a cousin in Great Falls, Mt. that I keep threatening to go out and visit one day that I only met as toddlers in the 60's. We got introduced again by our uncle and now we constantly email and call each other occasionally. It'd be a trip like on National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation for us I'm sure. I was in Denver last January after delivering an oversized crusher plant, and was within a 1/4 inch of renting a car to make the drive from Denver to Great Falls, but the passes were closed due to the white stuff and I aborted the mission.:drinkup
No, LowBoy... kinda the other way... about 25 miles from the Wyoming border, about 6 miles East of I-90... in the hills. OCR
Okee Dokee. This is the greenhorns 3rd reply. Does anyone know if a hitachi 270 excavator has a diverter or will I have to suck it up and re-learn the cat controls? About 10 years ago I borrowed a friends Link Belt for a couple of months and was able to reorganize my brain, however that was a l-o--n--g time ago.
225 cab The button that looks like a dimmer switch is the horn.Master switch is located on the guage console on the lower right side(at least it was on the 235 I operated).
Deere in an excavator for me is a scary thought. I can only run cat in an excavator but I run Deere only in a Backhoe. If I tried to switch the 2 Id be screwed. Even more strange, I can hop in a 690B Deere and run it fine because the controls are in front of me like the backhoe. And with a backhoe with pilot controls I can only run Cat pattern. Ive worked places 2 were me and the foreman would go back and fourth all day with pattern valves, he hop in for 5 mins switch to Deere, Id get back in and have to switch back cat. It was annoying but gave me an excuse to not have to run the 307 that was beat to hell.
Well, I believe that the Cat controls make more sense because the entire right stick has the same functions as a control would for a backhoe loader or track loader. Back raises the bucket, forward lowers it, left curls in, and right curls out. Now just add the other functions that are picked up by going to an excavator on the left stick (this really becomes sensible when left swings left, right swings right, forward is stick out and back is stick in.) Just think of the right stick on a Cat machine to be the same as a joystick in a backhoe.
Well, I see your point. But consider that the Deere controls place both minor (finesse) controls in right and and both major controls in left. The Cat controls seem to "skip" the stick (because they do) on your right hand.....the stick control is "skipped" over as your right hand control goes from bucket to boom. But this is moot, I am going to practice with those backwards-*** Cat controls and see if I can do it - like I should anyway.:drinkup. Kind of sacrilige to have a Cat on Deere controls, my old man will just have to stay on the other stuff.
Didnt john deere produce the first 2 stick control pattern and have a patten on it, that being why Cat swithed only 2 functions so they could use joystick controls in their equipment?
I never heard of this, but it does make sense. When I first started operating, I learned on a JD pattern. I too thought it was the mosst sensible, as all the major functions are on the left. But once I learned the Cat system and became proficient with it, it really is a better pattern. WHen pulling the crowd in with the bucket in the ground doing digging, at the end of the stroke your right hand must do a "half circle" with the contol to get the bucket rolled in and throw the dipper back out away from the machine. On the cat controls that large movement with one hand is spread across both controls
Learning the Controls I've always heard that if you would change patterns about an hour before quitting time, run about an hour and go home, that you could run it the next morning. I don't know, I run John Deere controls. :notworthy My part time guy is a cat man and he won't change for nothing. It grips my butt when we have a backhoe job. :Banghead
leave them the way they are. It isn't that hard to jump back and forth.
oh, yea it can be
only if ya wanna make it be.
Well, I decided I am going to switch it. For the sake of the archives of this site, I will illustrate with pictures how to switch the pilot controls on a 200 series Cat. There IS a very convenient junction block behind the cab. Below the cab it is steel tube, but these go to the first beam which has all rubber lines on the other side.(first pic). Was getting dark, so these pics are not so great, but I will post better later along with the 4 correctly identified hoses (the hard part) for switching. By the way,this is a 51U in very near perfect mechanical and cosmetic condition. :drinkup
:Banghead:Banghead
Well, the dasdardly deed is done. For some reason, high side plunger left has to go to LOW side plunger right, and visa-versa....just to confound me, I believe.:Banghead And I know some of you guys will think about that....but both stick back are piston EXTENSION....go figure. I'll a have diagram this weekend, for whom it might concern.
nice lookin 225
225 I agree, very nice. 3304 or 3208 powered? Spent many quality hours in a 235 s/n 32K3094.It was updated with pilot controls from a 235C at one point in it's productive life.Very smooth and strong,tougher than todays machines by far-toughest on the planet imo.
Thanks.:drinkup
It does have a 3208, but its a new Cat engine with only 600 hours on it. Pilots too - they're not as sensitive as newer pilots, but you get accustomed after 5-10 minutes. I wouldn't go from a new Cat or Komatsu to the 225 back and forth all day though....
I have a 215 D with a 3304 and love it to death. would not trade it for one of the new ones either.
That's a good engine in that one.
Darn right. Will be even better in a few days. Tearing it down for the first time with 10240 hours on it for overhaul right now.
where i work we run to patterns and we put qick relece fitings on the pilot connections and thay work good
Seem to be a lot of work for nothing,a little practice will get you used to the new pattern and like riding a bike you will never forget it.
Hey there. I know this past is super old, but did you ever get a chamber to put the diagram together? I need to do this to my 225 tomorrow. Would love to see anything that'll help