So last week my 2014 Cat 299D started giving me this error "Engine Fuel Leakage 1 - Error Code 1239-1". I immediately shut the engine down and did a quick inspection. I did not see any traces of leaking fuel, so I started it back up and within a few minutes it started showing the error code again. I was in the middle of grading part of a road, so I had to finish what I was doing so cars could pass. I found that setting it to 50% throttle allowed me to work without showing the error and I continued working for around 20 minutes with no problems. The tank was also about 3/4 full and I was mostly working on level grounds. I got the machine back to my house so I could inspect it. I did the following: 1. Inspected the pre-filter on the electric pump and it looked a little dirty, so I replaced it (About 200 hours on the old filter). 2. Inspected the Gas cap. I did find that it had a good seal, and I heard air rush past it when I lifted the lever (I thought maybe the tank may have been compromised by an animal or something chewing in it, but it sounds like it is still sealed). I also cleaned the cap, and inspected the orange vent, which seemed to be in good shape. 3. Checked all over the fuel rail and didn't see any leaks. I started it back up and it ran for a few minutes with no load before it started showing the error again. So I ordered a new main fuel filter that goes in the separator and replaced that. That had around 200 hours on it as well and also looked dirty. I started it up and it ran for around 10 minutes at full throttle, and I thought I was in the clear. I started driving it, and it wasn't until I put a bit of a load on it before it showed the error again. Just to add a little more info, this did start happening after I refueled the tank (about 30 minutes after refueling). Could this be related to bad fuel? I wouldn't think so because it seemed to run fine at 50%. I did replaced the small electric fuel pump about a year ago, so I would not think it was that either. In fact, when I bought the machine, that pump was broken and I had been running the machine for weeks without it and the failed pump only showed up to me when I replaced the fuel filters and realized it was not priming. Thanks for any help or advice you can give!
If you got a rush of air when you opened the tank cap them the breather in the cap is plugged. Also if this happened just after refuelling you can bet that it was the fuel or the container the fuel was in that was contaminated. Try draining the accumulated water and sediment from the fuel tank. There will be a procedure in the Manual showing how to do it.
Did you try putting a breathable rag over the top of the filler neck to see if the problem goes away with the rag just ty-wrapped on. Hopefully the tank is not to o full for the fuel to leak out. It could help to rule out the cap. Simon
You know that the tank has fuel in it so that rules out Step A below. Guess what the 2nd check is in the diagnostic procedure.? A. Visually check the fuel level in the fuel tank. Do not rely on the fuel gauge only. B. Ensure that the vent in the fuel cap is not filled with debris.
Thank you! I have been busy with my real job, but I am going to try this today!
Thank you! I will give this a shot today!
Well, sadly, no luck. I tried running with a rag covering the fuel cap and unfortunately that did not work. I was able to run the machine for about 2 hours at half throttle with only 4 restarts needed to clear the error caused by me over loading the machine. I did notice the small filter on the fuel pump was about half air, so I am going to try replacing some of the hose crimps on the lines feeding into the filter just to rule out air leaking in that way.
Have you looked in the head of the fuel filter(s) to see if there is anything stopped up somewhere by a "plug" of dirt or whatever.? Often when filter elements are changed the bit the filter bolts to is completely ignored. Without a Serial Number it's impossible to say what your particular filter setup might be - there are over 20 different models of 299D. Did you try draining water/sediment from the fuel tank.? How did that go.?
You can put air into the tank with a ball of rags over the hole with the blow pipe into the tank and give light air to pressuize the tank about 1 psi. Wear safety glasses while doing it and if you give too much air it will vapourize fuel out the sides of the rag. It takes 2 people to do and any suction line leaks will then leak out between tank and transfer pump. Also do as Heymccall listed and maybe you will have solved it. Please post when you find the solution for the rest of us. Simon
That is a good call. Since the filters are so low, It is hard to inspect that part, but I will go underwear it and use my phone to inspect it. I did replace the clips on the fuel line and I did blow compressed air into the tank from the feed line just to make sure something was not plugging that up. I then ran it again and once again was able to use it for about 10 minutes at full power before it started throwing the error code again. I powered it back to 50 percent and worked about another hour only overloading it once to the point of throwing that code and having to restart. Do I drain the tank from the feed line? If so, I drained about a gallon out, and I did not see any water in it. Thanks for your help!
Thank you for the info dump! I think some of these sensors are pulled pretty tight, I will inspect them in detail this weekend.
Thank you. I will try this after I try heymccall procedures.
No you don't. It drains from underneath. How exactly depends on the type of installed tank (there are various). To identify the correct procedure needs the S/N of your machine, unless you have an Operation & Maintenance Manual which will show the correct procedure that is applicable to your particular machine.
Cracks knuckles* Let me tell you! I just had this issue last week on my 299d2. The goddamn intake line that goes from the tank to the lift pump pre filter was clogged. You can hear the pump knocking, this means there's suction. I was in a hurry so I just hooked up my air hose to the dump truck and blew the line backwards, it clogged again 30 minutes later, cleared it, and hasn't been back since. But I definitely need to clean the tank. Pull the hose and blow on it with your mouth first. Bubbles should be easy. That is a generic code that senses that the fuel rail dropped some % below what was commanded. Therefore the main high pressure pump is pulling a vacuum on the "what was supposed to be" pressurized fuel line. Hope this helps.
Thank you for the info! Still trying to find my cause, I am going to try and get into the tank hopefully this weekend. I have run it now at about 50% throttle for 4-5 hours so I could finish jobs in progress.
I still don't think you shared a serial number. If your machine has one of these take it off and disassemble it. Remove the pump by rotating the black ring ccw, and lift the pump and retaining ring off as a unit. Now verify that there is zero debris blocking any passage in the filter head itself.
Ah I'd much rather have the old style pump and filter like mccall posted. That one never gave me problems. Try blowing the line out back into the tank and reassemble. Good luck and get us your serial number!
Oh, I am sorry GTC01014. So yesterday I took all the fuel lines off and made sure they were clear all the way to the High Pressure pump on the engine. I also removed both filters and made sure the in/outs on the filter holders were not blocked. I blew air back into the tank as well. I did find one of the clamps was a little loose, but it was on the output side of the second filter and was not leaking. This should have been pressurized anyways, so I am not sure that would solve it. I haven't had a chance to run it again yet. I was still going to try and drain the tank, I just need to find something to put all the fuel into.
Thank you, I have the older style Pump and filter.
Here's the as-built filter setup. More hose clips than you can shake a stick at. Make sure you didn't inadvertently miss checking just one of them, because that will be the loose one......!! Loads of 90-degree fittings (Ref #2) in addition to the famous narrow diameter passages inside the filter head itself. If you didn't remove the filter head from the machine and blow out/inspect all the internal passages you really ought to do that. Ref #3 is a check valve. Make sure it is operating correctly.
You have a common rail fuel system. There isn't any external leak that you will find. The computer is detecting lower common rail pressure than commanded. Thus it triggers that code. A few things can cause this. The low pressure fuel that is feeding the high pressure pump is restricted and not supplying adequate fuel. it's been too long since I dealt with cat engines. But I think there is a fuel control valve that controls the flow of the low pressure fuel. In there could be a overflow valve that is failing. Or the pressure relief valve is failing. And lastly one or more injectors are failing and returning to much fuel. Without intimate knowledge of your fuel system it's hard to steer you in the right direction. You will have to perform a injector fuel return test and check how much fuel is returning through the relief valve on the common rail. All will need to be isolated. You will also need Cat E T to run other tests and see pressures. I forgot to mention the simplest thing. You could simply have a bad pressure sensor. Extreme care needs to be taken when working on the high pressure side. Pressures are anywhere from 1000 psi to 30,000 psi.
See the bold bits above. The common root cause appears likely to be issues in the fuel supply lines, especially with all those hose clips and 90-deg elbows.....
Wow, that sounds awful! Thank you for the help though. I really hope it doesn't have to go that far, but who knows. Also, I work with waterjets, so I have a healthy fear of high pressure liquid!
Hmm, so good call on the check, maybe? I took the line off the tank and blew into it and it blew into the filter housing. I am assuming this is the wrong direction?
Again he asks...... Did you remove the filter head and ensure that all the passages in it were free of any obstruction.?
That would be the correct direction. The function of the check valve is so that fuel can’t flow back to the tank.
Sorry, I thought I answered that. I pulled the filters out and blew through the lines with no resistance. I used my phone and looked though all the in/outs, and they all seemed free and clear.
So it this a backup to suck fuel in if the boost pump failed or something?
As I see it the valve functions as a non-return to prevent fuel draining back to tank via the suction line when the engine is stopped should there be an air leak somewhere north of the check valve, for example in an o-ring in the filter assembly. If you want to double check it, remove the valve from the filter head and try blowing in the direction the fuel should flow, then sucking in the opposite direction. In the reverse direction the valve should seal completely and not allow anything to flow through it.
mmm, tasty Diesel Fuel...
hi did you fix this problem?
So yes and no. I was waiting to officially post something about this until I completely confirmed this, but it sound like you might be having the same problem. I was running my CAT on Sunday cleaning up the dirt road that feeds my house when it died right in the middle of using it. I was trying to burn up more fuel before I drained the tank since it seemed to run fine at about 50 percent throttle for hours at a time. I was leaning towards something wrong with the Fuel rail or injector since it was running fine at lower speeds. When I tried starting it again, it started and ran for about two seconds. I tried again and it just cranked with no hint of life. I could hear the fuel pump and it didn’t sound normal. I took off the fuel line and something was looking back at me stuck in the line. I pulled out a huge chunk of slim. I then tried to blow into the fuel line and it was blocked. I had to use a portable compressor to blow the blockage back into the tank. Once it was clear I connected the fuel line and it started right back up. So now I really think this was due to contaminated fuel. I have a 35 gallon black plastic fuel tank in the back of my truck. It had diesel sitting in it for about 3-4 months in the sun, which probably promoted bacteria growth. My next plan is to drain the tank and inspect it with my small camera and try to clean it the best I can. I have been watching some videos about some diesel fuel tank additives you can use to neutralize the bacteria and break it down into smaller particles that get trapped in the fuel filters. I will probably use one of those as well.
Easy for an outsider to say, but I think you’d be better off removing the tank completely then pressure clean the inside. Whatever fuel you drain out of it use for lighting bonfires or whatever, it’s not fit to burn in your engine.
Haha, wait, I think you are serious... I would have to take everything out of the engine compartment including the engine to do this. That is kind of a crazy thing to do.
Sorry didn't realize that. But having previous experience of fuel algae and how difficult it is to get rid of IMHO you are going to have to take some pretty aggressive action to get rid of it. If you can't get the tank out then you may have to resort to draining it from below then pressure cleaning the interior of the tank while the drain is open and allowing all the cr@p to fall out of the bottom. Once you have done that then you might be in a position to start treating with algicide.
Thank you! I spent all day on this today. Drained all the fuel, and Inspected the Tank. The fuel looked extremely clean. Only a couple of small bits of sludge. So I am guessing this was introduced from my storage tank and was not from the tank in the CAT. I put about another 5 gallons in and drained it out. I applied light air pressure in the fuel pick up line forcing fuel out of the drain plug as it just slowly dribbled out. I reversed this and took turns blowing back and forth between lines just to make sure I was loosening anything that could be stuck to the intakes on the lines. For good measure I treated the fuel with a Biocide to kill anything that might be growing in the fuel system. What is interesting is that I had a new error after starting back up. "157-4 Engine Injector Metering Rail #1 Pressure Voltage Below Normal". Now I did pressure clean the engine after all the fun with the diesel fuel. I let the engine dry for a bit and then reseated the plug. That seemed to work and the error never came back, but it might be something that I will circle back to if I can't figure this out. I put new fuel in and started it up. Ran great at full power for about 5 minutes and then BEEP, same error again. Ugh. I am going to let the biocide work for a couple if days with the hopes that maybe something is on the intake that needs to die! So one thing I have a question about, is about the pickup line in the fuel tank. Does the line connect to a small strainer that could be getting plugged? The parts manual does not show any of this detail. Can you even get this out? I was not expecting a fuel line to be connected to the drain plug inside the tank. This was screwed from the inside, so I am guessing the fuel pick line is the same way? Just wanted to say thanks agin for all your help!
They are saying sub this For this
Oh, Interesting. I replaced this pump about 2 years ago and have maybe 200 hours on it, but it is the old style. I'm willing to change it though. Does this new one have no built in filter? Also do you happen to know about the fuel pickup tube? Thank you.
After going back in my history. I did replace this pump with the new part number, but it is still the traditional square pump with the screw on filter shown in your first picture.
Top new Bottom old I think
There is nothing by the way of a strainer on the end of the fuel pickup tube inside the tank. This is the new one. Not a very good photo but enough to identify it I think.
Ya, that is the one I am running! Here is a picture of the pump and the fuel I removed.
New Part Number visble on your photo......
Thats what I love about CAT Parts! Even the o-rings have the part numbers on them.
So I was thinking the next course of action would be to attach a separate tank and try that. If that doesn't work. then I am going to assume it is the High Pressure Value on the fuel rail or the Pressure sensor on the rail that has gone bad? Sound like a good plan?
#5 says "tube assembly". Have you removed and inspected it?
I honestly didn't think I could get this out based on the fact the drain tube assembly didn't come out. If you think I can remove it, then I will give it a shot!
Surely, it has to come out. Above lists the torque spec and here is a picture.
So just a quick update. I spent the last couple of days working on this again. I noticed a bunch of junk in the filter this time. I think the Biocide really loosened things up. I ran the machine 3 times for 10 minutes each. After each run I pulled the small filter out and cleaned it. It was full of junk each time. Then I decided that I should try cleaning it a different way. I pulled the filter and used a suction pump to pull from the fuel pickup line. This method pulled out a bunch more stuff and probably one of the main culprits… bits of HAY! I then filtered this fuel and put it back in the tank so I could suck it back out again. I kept doing this till I was no longer picking up “chunks”. I also pulled out the pickup assembly, but it also appears it is inside a rubber tube the was installed from inside the tank, so I still can’t get to the end of the line and inspect it. I ran the machine for about another 10 minutes and I did not see the error code. I will report back when I know more!
Good luck, I have a few new Cat fuel filters I’d sell half price if you need any more, they won’t fit the newer machines and CAT won’t swap them so surely somebody can use them. I also have a new CAT transfer pump If you end up needing one.
Good evening, have you had any luck in quelling this issue? I’ve got a Terex PT110F with a Perkins engine that keeps throwing a 1239-0 code for fuel leakage just a month or two after going full throttle with a mulcher, but can’t find anything. All lines seem to be clear, I’ve changed filters and blown out the lines.
That is supposed to read “Just a moment or two after going full throttle with a mulcher”.
So it turned out to be fuel contamination in my case. Somehow a bunch of alfalfa hay got into the fuel tank, and the fuel lines are so small that every once in a while it sucks up a chuck of it and causes a blockage. I have completely purged and cleaned the tank the best I can, but it still throws the error code about twice an hour. I can shut it down and restart it, and it runs fine. I figure I am just going to keep running it until it has sucked all the hay out of the tank into the filters, so I just watch the filters closely for captured contaminants. I also added a fuel fungicide when I refilled the tank after cleaning. In your case, I would look into the sensor on the high pressure fuel rail. Check the wiring to it as well. There should be a way to test it with a meter and make sure that it is reporting correctly. This sensor was the next thing I was going to replace before I found the hay bits.
So far, haven’t found anything in the fuel lines of my Terex. Had a bad primer pump on it. They don’t have an electronic lift pump like the CATs. It’s at a shop now. Replaced that primer pump and both filters, no change, they first told me I needed a fuel rail/sensors, then told me that was all okay, but need a high pressure pump and injectors. I’m waiting for them to give me the estimate of fixing all of that plus where we are on diagnostics and they also had to replace the throttle body, as it was locked up.
Well, ****. I am sorry to hear that. That is what my fear was going into this. One thing you might also want to ask about, is there is a pressure control valve / bypass valve that is on the pump (At least on my CAT). It is what keeps the pressure constant in the fuel rail and allows excess to return back to the tank. This can potentially open too early and allow the pressure to drop in the rail and cause the error.
Just curious if you ever solved this?
I wanted to say that my issues have almost cleared up. I still get something once in a while that blocks the small fuel line and a restart clears it. I ran a couple of tanks of biocide, and now I replaced both the fuel filters and I am running a full tank with fuel injector cleaner just for good measure.
Yessir had the injectors taken out and tested after cleaning the rest of the fuel system. They were full of gunk and rust from bad fuel over the years. Sent them off to have them cleaned and rebuilt. That solved the fuel issues.
Glad you were able to get that resolved. Also good to know that can throw the error code too. The error code leads you to believe it would be before the fuel rail.
I'm just curious, did you also take at the fuel rail and high pressure pump? What does something like this cost if you don't mind me asking?
It is starting to throw codes again! Ugh. So I am not sure if that tube may be clogging up again or if something else further down is causing issues.
Well, the shop stuffed me with a $14,000 repair bill. Once I got there to meet with the service manager, spent about 2 hours with him and calling the company president on their BS, I had about 85% of that bill reduced. They had just run time on the clock and didn’t really do anything. I believe the quote was about $5,000 parts and labor for the HP pump, which we didn’t need, and I think close to $3,000 parts and labor for the fuel rail, which I didn’t need. They did say it was best and most economical to buy a whole rail with sensors included (for that particular machine) vs the cost of the sensors and pop off valve separately. I ended up paying them for a new throttle body, some diag and labor for that and the injectors, and putting on the new fuel water separator and hand pump assembly. I did all the leg work to get the injectors rebuilt at a third party shop, and paid for the rebuild shop out of my own pocket, which was about $16-$1700 then if I remember correctly. The rebuilt injectors seemed to fix the problem, without replacing the HP pump or the rail.
Wow, really sorry to hear that. Thank you for the info though!
Well the problem has returned! This time, I tried changing the fuel pump, fuel filters, and even blew into the fuel line to make sure it is clear. Watching the fuel pre filter, it appears I have good fuel flow. I can run the engine at full throttle and drive around a little without issue. The problem seems to appear when the engine bogs down or is loaded up. So I am wondering if this can be caused by a clogged injector? I noticed that when the engine first starts up it runs a little rough at idle. Throttling up seems to smooth the engine out and after a while it idles fine. I did notice the engine main fuel filter that I just replaced about an hour of run time ago had a small film of stuff on it. I’m wondering if this is algae working its way into the system? Thanks for the help!
I just started having this issue on my 272d SN b5w00526 today, the error seemed to only pop up when I idled down from full throttle. Although the last time it popped up on me I was roading the machine back from a field and when I turned a corner the error came up. I checked the clamps and did find one that had worked loose, but the error still keeps coming back. I was able to finish what I needed to do today. Not sure if it would keep running at full throttle as I was only running full while loading bales onto a truck for 15-20 minutes then would throttle down waiting for the next truck and that is when the error would pop up, a restart and I was good to go again, until I throttled down. I also attached a picture of the fuel filter, and was wondering if this should be fuller, and it looks like there might be a small bit of debris on it.
That's a screen not a filter and yes it should be far more full of fuel than your photo shows. Investigate back in the direction of the tank methinks.
This issue still continues! Just when I think the issue is gone, it comes back! I emptied the fuel tank, pressure washed it, and let it dry for a week with forced air. I then replaced the pump again with a brand new one and it worked for a day, then the issue came back again. I am starting to wonder if maybe this is the sensor on the fuel rail? Maybe a clogged injector? I also tried running seafoam through the engine and it worked for a while, but the issue keeps coming back. If I keep the RPMs below 1900 it does not show the error. Only seems to happen at high RPM or when I load the motor up.
What does the sight glass on the pre filter going to the lift pump look like? Also I had a blockage on the inlet coming from the tank. I would blow the fuel back into the tank, and it would be cleared for usually at least a year, then occasionally it would just plug back up, I would blow it out and knock on wood. It's been about 2 years and I haven't had an issue, but nine times out of 10. It's that pre-filter being clogged up
Ya, that's what started this problem! I did have contaminated fuel. I would blow it back and it would work for a while. When I washed the tank, I pulled the feed tube as well and it was clear. When it went back together I put a new filter on it with a new pump. The pre filter looks good and clean now.
So the pre filter is clean. Did you pull the suction line from the tank and see if it's flowing? I had an issue on my old 277b (Perkins) where the pickup tube was rusted and when the fuel get too low, it starts picking up air.
The pickup tube is a straight metal tube, only about 6 inches long. When I pull the line off the bottom of the pump, fuel pours out.
Oh, so make sure fuel is being pumped out of the lift pump, and then just go from there, could be something as simple as the primary fuel filter is clogged lol
I changed the primary element too and blew out all the line on to the high pressure pump. I bought a fuel pressure gauge and I am going to install that so I can see where the drop is. I just need some free time to dive into it!
I think it’s time to stop messing around with the piddly stuff and have the injectors tested.
You are probably right. I need to find someone who knows how to do that!
Not sure where you’re located, but I sent mine to Triplet Diesel in Waco, TX.
I’m out in California. What should it cost to go through the injectors?
Did you ever figure out if it was the injectors? I’m having the same problems.
I have a 299 d2, mine was just a clogged pre-filter, it's the one that is located on the lift pump, mine was full of rust, and looks like other debris, no idea how I got there because I always run clean fuel, but I rinsed it out, put it back together and it's been fine ever since
Yes and No. My problem seemed to only pop up once or twice an hour when running it and I just got used to that. Well, now it is back with a vengeance!! What is strange is that it will run fine for about the first 10-20 minutes when things are cold. Seems like once it warms up is when the problem shows. Now it will show up at idle and almost constantly. It is to the point where the machine is pretty useless. I looked at the filters and I noticed the filter/screen on the lift pump appears to be dirty and had no air in it. My understanding is that you want to see a little air in it as that means the fuel is flowing well and not pulling a hard suction. Keep in mind this screen only has about 10 hours on it in the last 6 months. To me, the dirt appears to be algae(?) growing in the fuel. I swapped this out with a new one as well as replaced the primary element just to be safe. When I pulled off the fuel line, I notice fuel was not flowing again. I used a compressor and blew back into the tank and then it started flowing nicely again. I also treated the tank with BioClean if it is algae. I was feeling pretty confident and got everything back together and ran it. Once again it seemed fine for about 10 minutes, then the error started showing up constantly again! UGH!!!! I did buy a fuel pressure gauge and put it inline after the fuel filter right before the high-pressure pump to verify I am getting good pressures. What I forgot about, is the 1psi pressure relief valve in that line that lets the fuel back into the tank. I put a valve on that so I could turn it off. I was not sure if I would do damage to the high-pressure pump. So I would just quickly turn it off, and when I did, I consistently saw 11-12 PSI. When I did this, I thought for sure I would see the machine throw the code, but it never did. I took a step back and got busy with another project, but in a couple of days I am going to try the following… Reconfigure the fuel lines so I can close off the pressure relief valve and let the line build 2-3 PSI to feed the high-pressure pump. Possibly pull out this relief valve and test it. If it is stuck open, then I could see that being part of the problem. I am going to do a seafoam treatment on the injectors. During that process, you are supposed to allow the injectors to heat soak with the foam. Now that I know how the relief valve works, it means that my previous treatments were mostly wasted, as you are supposed to fill the fuel filter with it and let the engine run off it. I now know that the seafoam was immediately getting pushed back into the tank and the engine was not running off seafoam like it should be. I am thinking that because my fuel seems to be growing stuff, that there is a good chance that it got into the injectors and have fouled them. I would think the machine would be smart enough to know the difference between the high and low-pressure side, but maybe not? Very frustrating to say the least. If this does not fix it, I’ll probably call area diesel service and see what they recommend.
These machines throw the leakage code for everything fuel related: bad injectors to a fuel filter at its end of service life.
Did you ever test the relief valve and if so how did you do that?
Ok so now my machine won’t start without a small shot of starting fluid but once it starts it seems to run fine.
It’s pretty hot in California right now, so I have not be excited to work outside. It is supposed to drop by this weekend and then I will try. My plan is to remove the line and then blow into it and see if I can feel it open up. It is supposed to open at 1-2 psi. Looking at the gauge I installed, it is opening way before that. Are you able to verify that your lift pump is making pressure? These things seem to go bad every couple hundred hours.
Macres Acres in post #82 you said that you blew back into tank and fuel ran again. To me it sounds like you have a piece of clear plastic or something plugging the tank fuel outlet, unless there is something else in line between where you applied air, to the tank Outlet. Fuel runs non stop unless something is plugging it off. Do not throw cash at this thing with some kind of blockage at tank or in line. I had exact problem once with a big tank, Blew it back and forth and finally it flowed free. Just saying that fuel does not stop flowing unless breather is plugged or if obstruction in line. Simon C
Did you ever get it resolved?
No sadly.
I can not run the machine over 1600RPM or load the machine up or it will show the error code. This is still causing me great frustration. I think I might have a couple different issues showing up. If I remove the valve that opens at 1/2 PSI into the tank, it seems to work ok, but I did not want to run it this way for any period of time as I am not sure what damage that might be causing to the high pressure pump. The next thing I noticed is that the engine oil level is increasing. I am guessing this is fuel getting into the oil. I thought maybe this is something related to the fuel pump, but it also appears that the injectors use oil in some part of the injection process, so that makes me think maybe a seal has gone bad there? Should I try and order new injector seals and replace those first? I tried calling CAT and they really don't like you talking to the techs. They said it is $218 an hour with a 4 hour minimum and a 1 time travel fee of $399. (I live 5 miles from the CAT dealer). That's before they do any repairs! This just seems too outrageous and frankly out of my budget. Thanks for any help you might have!
Back to post #87, does the fuel just pour from the line from the tank going to the filters. If not, what's the matter. Does the return fuel go back to tank with minimum breath, unless it is returned back into the fuel inlet. If it returns back to fuel inlet, it could be bringing bubbles with it. Have you tried running this thing with a jerry can of fuel, and revved it up and run boom up onto the stops to heavily load engine and watch the return hose for bubbles through a clear hose. Takes some time to Hook all up, but can identify the real problem. If nothing shows up, someone else may suggest something. Simon C
So I did have a tank contamination issue at one point. I finally dumped all the fuel and pressure washed the tank for hours, then filled the tank and drained it till no contamination came out. Then I let it air dry for a couple weeks to make sure that all moisture had been removed. I did run this off of an external fuel tank when that was an issue and that seemed to point to the tank being the cause. After I cleaned the tank the machine ran fine for about 8 hours, and then the issue appeared again. Now I think I am fighting a new issue or maybe they were happening at the same time. The fuel now does flow nicely when I remove the hose, but back when I had contamination (bits of hay and sludge were constantly blocking the lines), I would have to blow into the hose and then things would start flowing nicely. I really hoped it was just that simple, but now that I think I am seeing fuel in the oil, I am thinking maybe injector seals? I am going to send off an oil sample to verify.
Yes, sample first, then action based on results. The clear return line test can be done for cheap, parts wise, then you will have better idea. If when revving up and loading the hydraulics, the bubbles come heavy Then you know something is bad at injectors. Those are the tests I woud do along with rechecking your filter housing port entrances for junk that piles up inside. Not sure how grass got into your tank. Simon C
Thank you! Will test next! I got all the stuff to do the clear line test, but never did it years ago because of all the sludge I found in the tank. As far as the grass in the tank, my fuel truck is also my hauling hay truck for the animals. My external tank vent is too small for the pump, so I normally have to take the tank filler cap off while pumping fuel. One time I did this, I forgot to put the cap back on and hay made its way into the tank. The tank now has a pickup screen on the pump as well as an inline filter and the cat now has a mesh screen in the filler tube. It was an expensive and painful mistake, and I learned from it.
Our machine gave this code.. caller the dealer and he asked how much fuel did the machine have.. I said 1/4 tank, he said fill it up because they were having issues with fuel gauges not being accurate.. he was right, it was about empty causing air to get into the lines. Filled it up, no more codes.
UPDATE TIME!!! Good news / bad news. Well, it took a little more than a month to get everything done. I drained the fuel tank and found some contamination in it. I spent weeks flushing and using a tiny camera and small vacuum nozzle to clean everything. It was a very difficult and time consuming process because of the very limited access to the tank. Probably at least 16 hours on my back using a scope and maneuvering the small suction hose. The worst video game I have ever played!!! I found all the fittings were very rusted out, so I replaced all metal fittings, pick-up tubes, and fuel lines. I pumped hot air into the tank for 3 days to make sure it was completely dry and verified with my tiny camera. I removed the valve covers and what the hell CAT / Kubota engineers. Why would you put an exhaust pipe across the rear 2 valve cover holes. This was a very difficult part to remove with the very limited access in the rear of the engine. If I had to do this again, I would drain the coolant and remove the radiator. I fought so much with the coolant lines and trying to reach in and contort myself to get where I needed. I pulled the injectors and sent them off to Area Diesel Service for testing; and 2 out of the 4 tested bad. They still worked, just not within spec. One was delivering too much fuel and the other too little. @Nige convinced me I should probably just replace all of them. I ended up buying 4 new injectors from a Kubota dealer directly for $700 each. I replaced all the injectors and o-rings related to all fuel lines including all the aluminum crush rings/washers. I even replaced the metal fuel return line that lives under the valve cover to be safe. I flushed and cleaned all the high pressure lines that fed the injectors and the high pressure fuel rail. While it was like this I did all of the valve timing and they all needed adjustments. I changed the engine oil exhaust recovery filter. It is the filter on the engine case oil tube? Not really sure what it is for, but I am guessing it is emissions related as I have never seen this on another engine. Cat charges about $100 for this tiny filter unfortunately. I also completely drained my external transfer tank and then rinsed and flushed till it too was spotless. Then I replaced all of those fittings and added a fuel water separator and a secondary filter. Got everything back together and she fired right up. Let her warm up and then changed the oil. The next few weeks I put her under load and she ran like she never did before. So much power! I helped a neighbor take 3000lb pallets of block up a 20-30% slope and she barely knew she was going up a hill with all that weight. Didn’t bog down at all. I put about 15 hours on it and everything was running perfectly…… and then she started the throwing the code again. Restarted and it was fine for a few minutes and then the code again. Checked the filters and they were clean and fuel is flowing smoothly and freely. Ran it a couple days later and put about 4 hours on it and it started throwing the code at the end. Had to limp it back home because it kept throwing the code almost immediately when going to full throttle. Went out again yesterday and she ran fine for 2 hours and then started throwing the error again. Ugh. So now what? Where does one go from here?
New HP fuel pump I would suggest. All the rust (caused by water in the fuel) and contamination will have had an adverse effect on the pump internals. At least that is my opinion. Unfortunately once that damage has occured there is no way of healing it. Obviously all this happened before you became the owner.
To create rust on the inside of fittings is a good indicator that the previous owners had some fuel issues. Water and the high pressure pump are enemies as Nige said. Wondering about something else that I have seen a couple of times in my life. A fuel line flapper, innner wall of suction line that has a skin that blocks off. Leaning more towards the pump that as it starts to get hotter starts to fail. Hope it gets resolved. Been reading your story for a while, and thanks for posting so someone else can learn from. Simon C
Unfortunately, it is my fault for the fuel issues. These fittings were clean the first time I looked at that parts years ago. There is a low pressure bypass valve right after the fuel pump before the high pressure pump that this could be happening too, but the fuel pump generates so much flow, I don't think this is an issue, but you never know. -Bobby
Recently a client had a case: fuel injectors (new or repaired) worked for several days and then failed. The problem was rust inside the fuel rail. Replacing the fuel rail solved the problem
Did they have to replace the injectors again?
Repair
S/N BX901783
I am having the same issue with my 299D. Throwing the code any time my machine gets loaded. I have checked everything up to the HP fuel pump. My question is the LP relief valve going back to the tank. There is constant fuel returning back to the tank. Is that normal? I would like to bypass this and try it but unsure about damaging something. Thanks.
Is this the JST01153 machine you posted about previously.? Do you know if your machine has a Tier 4 Interim or Tier 4 Final fuel system.? The reason I ask is that the way the fuel systems operate is slightly different. What you may not be aware of is that there is a transfer pump inside the main HP fuel pump. That transfer pump is what supplies the fuel to the HP injection side of the pump. The idea of the LP relief valve is to ensure a constant supply pressure to inlet port of the transfer pump, therefore it is quite normal for fuel to be spewing out of the return-to-tank line.
Just found the info. It's Tier 4 Interim. See the attached.
That’s great information Nige. Thanks. So where do I troubleshoot from here? Is it ok to temporarily bypass the relief valve to verify it is not relieving to much fuel?
Not unless you want to potentially blow the transfer pump to smithereens and have to replace the entire HP fuel injection pump because spare parts are not sold separately. Try pricing a 377-6956 Pump Gp from your Cat dealer. The only thing I can suggest if you are in any doubt is to replace the relief valve with a new one. It is #3 on the attachment.
I absolutely do not want to grenade anything in the fuel system. This is why I asked first.
There is no point in reinventing the wheel. I suggest that you should go back to Page 1 and carefully read this thread in its entirety and do whatever @Makers Acres did, because it’s 99% certain that you will end up doing exactly the same.
@4G Landworks You are probably going to need an HP pump at the end of the day anyway. Here is a link to a brand-new Denso pump at around half the Cat dealer price. Denso make the fuel system for that engine and it is clearly indicated as being equivalent to the 377-6956 OEM Part Number. NEW OEM Denso Injection Pump Fits Caterpillar Part # 377-6956 New BRAND : Denso COMPATIBLE EQUIPMENT TYPE : Combine,Tractor,Skid Steer Loader,Wheel Loader,Excavator MODEL YEAR : Unknown NUMBER OF CYLINDERS : 4 COMPATIBLE EQUIPMENT MAKE : Bobcat,Caterpillar,Denso,Kubota MPN : 377-6956 COUNTRY/REGION OF MANUFACTURE : Japan PART TYPE : Fuel Injection Pump NEW... whd-parts.com
I have had good luck finding a Kubota dealership and ordering parts from them. They are about 1/4-1/2 the price of Cat. For what it is worth, I don't have my issues 100 percent solved yet. I replaced all the injectors, completely drained the fuel tank and cleaned. Replaced all the metal fittings on the tank including the fuel pickup tube and drain plugs as some of them showed extreme signs of rust. The machine ran the best it ever had for about 2 weeks, then it started doing the same thing again. I am Incredibly frustrated, but not in a position to be able to take it to CAT and drop 10-15K on the issue.
Thanks for the reply. Mine just spent three months at cat for an "electrical" issue with the track speed sensors I couldn't figure out. 17K$ and 3 months later I got it back with this fuel issue.
How much stuff did they change for $17K. That is $25000 Canadian and would change a lot of harnesses. With a 5 amp light bulb I could test every pin in a harness from the controllers to see if there were wires grounding out, or if the harness was too weak to carry proper voltage or signal to ground or back to the controller. Simon C
I put electrical in quotes because for three months they told me they couldn’t figure it out with there diagnostics but they knew it was electrical. Ended up replacing the hydraulic charge pump and a track motor and they called it good. Now I can’t run it long enough to see if they actually repaired the problem because of this fuel issue.
Wow, that is the nightmare that I am afraid of. I am semi retired and can’t drop that kind of cash at the dealership. I understand they have to make money, but sometimes it is a little ridiculous. Make your money on the large corporations that your service, not us little guys. They want a 4 hour minimum charge to reprogram my injector codes. The service guy even told me I could leave it on my trailer and it would only take 5 minutes, but the company policy was a 4 hour charge to work on anyones machine. Last time I checked it was $285 an hour. I am sure it is more now.
I can understand the 4 hour thing if it's a call out, but $285 p/h? That's $440 p/h down here... damn.
That dealership is trying hard to scare people to go elsewhere. If a guy can do a job in even 15 minutes but still wants 4 hours, not a good scene especially if sitting on trailer in dealers lot. Simon C
Unfortunately I live in Los Angeles and that seems to be the way that most people do business here. I was from Northern California where people used to care about the customers. Coming down here was a real shock. All of these companies are used to very large industrial customers that can come in and drop 10-100K on repairs and not blink an eye. I really would love another resource down here, but CAT has these machines on lockdown. I am working on a Genie rebuild that had a fire and Genie had to send a truck out to recalibrate the throttle pedal after I installed a new engine that they sold me. They made it sound like they were going to take care of it. It took him about 15 minutes and then he handed me an invoice for $1850. I sad you mean "$185" and he said "No, 4 hour minimum plus millage". I told him no way. We went back and forth and I agreed to pay him $750 only because the tech was nice, but this seems to be the way people work down here and it is very aggravating.
Can you not find a local independent tech who has Cat ET.? It’s not limited to dealers only.
I haven't had much luck when I tried looking. The only people that seem to have this type of equipment around here are large companies doing major construction projects. Not many farms in Central LA
Ask on Facebook or Craigslist or somesuch.? There has to be someone out there close to you that does not work for a dealer.
Just an update from my end. My fuel issue was in the wiring harness. Luckily, I bumped a wire when troubleshooting with the engine running and the code triggered and would not go away. I then traced out the wire and found the issue. Saved me a lot of money when I was fixing to start pulling injectors and possibly replacing along with the fuel pump. I have not had a code since.