Looking for a 312 Cat Excavator, Currently have a Caterpillar 315B and a 311 and am familiar with these platforms. Service information is available, parts are available at reasonable prices. Financially could put together a 312E, but for me newer is not always best. I definitely want to stay away from Emissions. Is there a sweet spot that I am not aware of in a C or D over the B or are they just newer. I am not interested in Blue tooth and navigation or heated seats if that makes any sense. Also are there any major Issues with a particular model that would make you stay away from them.
In my opinion the C series machines is where Cat finally caught up with the rest of the excavator world. The electronics had the diagnostics in the machine and you could troubleshoot most everything from the cab monitor panel. The emissions were Tier 3 so no DPF and all that nonsense. Base machine was still heavy for its size it seemed. Negatives issues were boom cracking that happened all across the Caterpillar line. The other down side is that many are gray market so cabs and comfort items will likely not be covered by Cat dealers. Cabs are not ROPS so a dent doesn't mean the machine can't be run. Big problem is there weren't that many sold so they are a little scarce on the market today. The kinds of people that bought them were landscaper and small construction and clearing companies. The machines are close to twenty years old now so will be way up there in hours. Condition will be rated as a runner with lots of stuff that doesn't work and extra work has to be done to get them running and keep them running. Stay away from the D models as those were Tier 4 interim. Lots of emissions stuff with a DPF but no DEF. Somewhere in the E models they started with DEF as I recall which made most of the emissions issues go away. I don't recall ever seeing a 312E so can't tell you much on that. Cat started making the machines into reduced and zero tail swing around that time and the industries for the most part left that model size behind. Went from midi size 308 and jumped to 313 and up.
312D machines did not have DPF, The E machines were Tier 4 interim and the Tier 4 final machines (DEF) didn’t start until the F model machines.
I thought that too, certainly the ones I was around, although they were compliant with EPA Tier 3.
One thing worth noting here, the C machines had mechanical injectors and and in-line fuel pump where as the D machines had a common rail pump and electronic injectors. Can’t say I feel one is better than the other but the mechanical system would be easier diagnosed in the event of an issue and would not require cat ET to troubleshoot.
Thanks for the corrections. My statements on the C machines stands as them being the best. I also note that Tier 4 Interim machines are to be avoided. Your corrections reminded me of something. When the D series came out I routinely was checking crankcase pressure and note that the D series engine ran considerably higher than the C series machines. It showed up later when doing trade in inspections with the D series to be more likely to have obvious engine oil leaks.
That is true about engine oil leaks on the D series vs the C. I tend to prefer the D but either are good machines. In my opinion the D is as good as you get for operator comfort, reliability and power without emissions. It is easier to get the diagnostic information off the monitor then the C. The problem is as John C says is the ones around usually have a lot of hours and are getting a little tired. There are good ones, just have to find them.
With this size of machine, the tier 4 interim machines aren’t overly troublesome as the DPF is designed to last the lifetime of the engine and does not have to be cleaned under normal conditions. There is the occasional NRS cooler failure and NRS valve failure but since they use an exhaust back pressure valve (EBPV) instead of an ARD head to generate heat in the after treatment, they are more reliable and rarely have the hickups that the large machines have. Also to note, the DPF on E machines can be cleaned in the event of a failure but has to be cut apart, cleaned, then TIG welded back together. Cat says it has to be replaced.
All good information, C machines seem less common than B machines, D machines even less common. The E models are more plentiful than C or D machines, and seem to come at a premium still. I passed on a 312C with 10k hours last week. I have kept out of emissions machines pretty well over the years but it is getting harder by the year. I have heard horror stories mostly from Loggers of skidders being stuck in the woods due to emissions issues, prefer to avoid if possible.
Anyone familiar with the new 313FLGC ? It is 74 Hp so under the threshold for emissions, downside is it has a single pump, so must be like running a mini excavator.
According to a brief search of the 313F GC machine, it has a DPF filter and an NRS cooler though it does not have a DEF system.
My 315CL has been a pretty good machine. I purchased it new (back in '03) and it has about 9k hours on it currently. Still on the original U/C which seems as though it will last the life if the machine. I also had a boom crack which we repaired. The only real downside was that it required pump replacement at about 6,000 hours (YUCK!). We are also currently experiencing a pesky engine oil pan leak that CAT tells me would require engine removal to fix. When I bought the "C" model it was a marked performance improvement over the "B" series. I know that it's not a 312 but it goes to show you how one could expect a "C" series to hold up. I rented a 312C and felt that the size was so similar that I much preferred the 315 over it. The only thing I liked on the 312, over the 315, was that it came with a push blade (which, unfortunately was bent). For us, the 315 is the largest trackhoe that we can haul without over weight, or over width permits. Mine weighs in at 40,000# (reach boom, long stick, coupler, thumb, and long U/C) and is 8'6" wide.
I also have a 315B, and a 311, with some of the residential work we do the 315B is just to large, But we could use a little more reach over the 311, I thought the 312 was the same as 311 with longer boom and more counter weight. I am also limited by a tag trailer. Looking around machinery trader, a 312C with every panel bashed in is worth as much as a 312E. How do you damage every panel? I was offered a 314FL zero swing at a reasonable price, not sure how I feel about Zero swing machines. I have a 303.5CR so same concept I would guess.
Keep in mind a 314F is a tier 4 final machine that has a DPF and an SCR requiring DEF. Many of the DEF system issues are dealer serviced only as they typically require “factory passwords” to remedy issues. Also, DEF system parts seem to be highly affected by the current parts shortages we are experiencing. Machine has a high pressure common rail C4.4 engine which is known to have the occasional high pressure fuel leak caused by the injectors dumping fuel to the return. Things to keep in mind when doing a cost analysis on this machine.
I've got a 314CLCR, a 314DLCR, and 2 314ELCR machines. The blade and tight swing radius are big plusses and outweigh packaging (serviceability) issues. Performance wise, I'd take the D or E. The E operates at a lower RPM, so it's quieter, and seems to burn less fuel, even with the DPF system. The C is definitely slower. But, on the LCR machines, the counterweight must be removed on all 3 for starter, alternator, or AC compressor work. And, the lifting lugs are different sizes between the models. My 12k crane will lift any of them. I have road liners over the triple gousers on all of then, so counterweight removal requires a machine that'll still rotate or removal of a few grousers to get the multiplier on the outer bolts. On all of them, 5 to 6k is all is seem to get out of their undercarriage. But, it was less than 6k in parts for any of them. No real troubles on any of them, though. The C has taken a starter, alternator, front crank seal, AC hose, hydraulic hoses from main valve to swivel (that's a fun one), AC compressor and a muffler in 12k hours. The D had a harness in the cab rub through giving travel and coupler faults, a muffler, and a crank position sensor in 10k hours. One E took an exhaust bypass valve, and that's it, and they have 6 and 8k hours respectively. Biggest irritating expense is roof hatch gas shocks.
I've heard lots of complaining about the E models being slow when a load is applied. I looked at two machines in the four to five thousand hour range that were traded for other makes because of this operator complaint. They felt pretty fast to me when doing cycle times but the operators said that when they digging and cycling for say loading a truck, these machines were significantly slower. All I can imagine was the torque curves were changed for better fuel economy. Anyone have any comments on that?
I've got a bunch of crybaby wanna be operators and a few good ones. They all still grab the E first, when available. I fielded tons of power complaints on the E machines, when new. Never did the machines fail cycle time or performance tests. We even went so far as to put a D and E side by side to prove it. Once the they got accustomed to "less vibration and noise", the complaints went away.
One thing I came across regarding operator perception of how hard a machine was working, "slow" in other words, was when a new engine software reduced engine speed to around max torque RPM when the machine was filling the bucket. This gave the impression that the machine was not working as hard purely as a result of the reduced engine noise. In actual fact there was no measureable difference in bucket filling performance.
Nige- Had similar complaints when the JEL tractors came out. No black smoke under load = no power.
Fielded so many power complaints on my 325FLCR that we almost didn't buy a second one. What a bunch of, well, ... Now they fight over it. Only issue with both 325FLCR is what seems to be excessive DEF consumption, but, do you think any of them would even try putting it in ECO mode?
The last time I suggested eco mode to a machine driver he laughed and said thats for learner drivers
A bit like the "hold my beer & watch this" syndrome......
Going to look at a 314D Tomorrow, has some traits of a zero swing machine but not totally zero swing, not 100% clear on that as of yet. Has a blade, never wanted a blade, thought those were for mini excavators so they didnt get drug around, but maybe there is some advantage that I am missing, being a mechanic the thought of running an excavator undercarriage back and forth makes my wallet tingle.
Does the blade have a cutting edge. If not, factor in a new bottom edge welding job every 500 to 1,000 hours.
Depends on what you do with them. All 4 of my 314 machines are on original cutting edges.
Around here they use them like battering rams and full dozer blade to work on stumps, asphalt and concrete. It was a common problem with trade in machines. They were broke up at the push beam welds to the back of the blade and/or the bottom edge of the blade was worn off the blade was packed full of dirt. I didn't find that to be the case on machines with bolt on cutting edges. That went for all makes.
Hopefully you will find a great machine to buy when you go see it. Personally, I've not been a fan of those due to small over all feeling but specifically tight quarters in the cab and ingress/egress. I do like the baldes for that size machine though. Especially for a compact radius.
After looking and looking and looking, I found and bought the White Whale. Good thing because the better half was going to have me committed. 312CL, 5000hrs, not a ding in any of the panels, long stick.
Pics or it didn't happen.
Oh it happened, technical difficulties, working on it.
Congrats! That's a nice looking 312. First full size hoe I bought new was a 315CL and it was a great machine.
I am a simpler is better kind of guy, Cummins diesel trucks with manual transmissions, never bought DEF. I paid all the money but have been shopping for a 312 for 2 years, B or C would have been fine, looked at multiple machines hundreds of miles away that were trashed. Have a 315B, 311, 307CL, 303.5DCR. We do a lot of septic systems, found the 311 to work well but needed a touch more reach. Working on adding the Aux circuit for a thumb, but Cat discontinued, and have to use aftermarket or fab something up.
Me too!!...and mine has been good for me too! So far, that is. The meter is indicating about 9,000 hours now. I used her just the other day and she still works well!
In my opinion the "C" model machines are much better performers than the "B" models. I think you did well to have found one that clean and only 5k hours.
Our 321DL has 8K plus hours on the clock and I'd just as soon run it as our 325FL. Had to put a can of freon in it a couple of weeks ago and now she's cooling nicely.
Local Cat dealer uses this company in lieu of OEM - http://www.hkx.com
Yes, My local Cat dealer quoted me an HKX Kit. $8500 I am torn between buying the HKX kit from Cat, and being done with it, or coming up with another option. They pulled the listing for cat aux lines so I cant look them up on SIS. Assuming Cat made the lines at some point, so there is a part number for them out there.
HKX is here in Washington State and it used to be that you could order the kits direct from them. http://www.hkx.com Looks like you still can.
Call USA attachments in king nc. They build progressive link thumbs as well as standard and fixed. I Plumed there first progressive link for them. It was a very nice thumb.
As John said you can order direct from HKX. Thought about putting aux lines our 321DL in order to run a hammer just haven't gotten around to getting a quote from them.
Spoke with HCT today and they sent me a quote. Lets call it $6000.00. I guess I am picky, I want the pedal from Cat that matches my other machines, I have a set of relief cartridges from a 312B new in the box, (may or may not fit my 312C) from there it is 2 lines over the boom and 4 hoses, I would think I could get it done for less than 6k. This is a pain in the neck. I am apparently not good with SIS, cannot find aux lines, they must be in a paper book somewhere. Did Cat make lines for these machines back in the day? There must be a part number for the 2 lines up over the boom? SN:CAT0312CKCBA02928
Everyone just bought hydraulic tubing back in the day and put ends on. Tubes were bent in place. The ends could be ferrel type, swaged or welded. I don't know if the kits come with the tubes but it would be tough to try to ship them with them complete. I'm sure you can order the pedal from Cat. No one in this area uses a pedal for the aux circuits anymore. All are solenoid operated from a joy stick handle.
Search SIS for 1972249 and 2536452. Just use your serial prefix CBA.
I ordered my '03 315CLC with a thumb so it came with an auxiliary circuit. When I bought my first crusher bucket I had to buy an additional auxiliary kit that would engage 2-pump flow so that I could meet the hydraulic demands of the attachment. I had heard good things about HKX so I sourced it from them. It cost me about $8,500 and this was back in 2016 (maybe 2015?). It was not a complete auxiliary kit as much of what I needed was already on my machine (including -16 tubes to the stick). It did include parts to make the circuit select-able (albeit manually) between bi-directional and mono-directional. The -16 tubes and valves came to plumb the stick, and retain thumb capabilities (again, manually switched). It also added parts to the pilot circuit to enable the 2-pump flow when the circuit was activated. My son, and I installed the kit and I would say that the directions were pretty good. I was not overly pleased with the fact that certain parts were absent, or incorrect, and the pressure switch failed (2 times!) before they sent one stout enough to handle the circuit pressure (on the low psi pilot circuit no less). They ended up sending me what I needed but it still caused me a lot of grief (and a machine that was disabled for a long time) to work through getting everything that I needed to complete the install. I would not have rated HKX customer service very high. In the end we got what we needed and still have a lot of fittings that we don't really need. I'm not sure if I would recommend them anymore, and I may go back to them if I had to. I know that they have been around for a long time and I feel pretty confident that they should be able to take care of you in the end. All of my newer machines came equipped with attachment management software, and all the required hydraulics to run any number of attachments so I have don't have any solutions from other sources either. This is one of the issues with buying used equipment. Not only is it a struggle to find a low houred machine, it is twice as difficult when you need it equipped a certain way. In my opinion, it is always a struggle to fit those aftermarket parts onto those machines, if only due to the much greater cost to buy the new parts for a dated machine. Anyway, that was my experience with HKX.
Fueling up the machine the other day noticed the pouch behind the seat was bulging, score, full parts manual behind the seat. Called my cat dealer with the part numbers for the auxilary lines, none available. The lines for the bucket, dipper and boom are available. Looking at my 3 other machines in comparison, we are going to the hydraulic shop and have tubes made.
So Problem #1 solved, found a hydraulic pin grabber on Craigslist with lines and the control valve for $2500.
we actually make some of the piping kits for the Cats, the connections themselves are pretty easy to do. Let me know if you need any help have loads of pictures etc and all the clamps etc (original ones used by Cat). I can give you the following: Original Cat type stop valves all clamps for the piping all the fittings and adaptors for the piping steel piping for the aux circuit (6mm wall thickness seamless TIG welded) Can do the hydraulic hoses as well if needed with full assembly pictures Let me know if you need help with the assembly I have a couple of machines I can take some pictures to show you how to install it. You don't need relief valves usually as the aux circuit is fitted with them, but if you do want some we have them as well. We've installed a few dozen aux circuit across Cart 312/B/C/D, quite straightforward installation compared to some other makes.
some more of the hardware you need