Hi all, I have an early 80's 931B with a 3204 NA in it and about 6500 hours. I use it around my farm, maybe 50-100hours a year. I pulled the head because head gasket went between 1&2. I found these two gouges in cylinder 2. They are deep, can feel them easily with finger. When I pulled injectors, I found that #2 injector was a reman and the others still had the original cat part number. Now, do you think that tip went on #2 injector and gouged cylinder or is there something more serious? Its always kind of had some blow by and doesnt really use any oil.
Yair . . . Acceptable blowby, doesn't use much oil, fifty to one hundred hours a year? . . . I'd take a punt with new tips and head gasket. Cheers.
I'm with scrub 50-100 hrs a year for yourself ...put a head gasket on it and run it and if you have problems down the road you know probably what it is...In the meen time you can research some costs of overhaul and do it in your down time
Ya kind of thinking the same thing change gasket and run it. I'm worried wrist pin is walking back and forth though.
It does appear the pin has come loose, will knock a bit from time to time but should not affect the machine as few hours as utilized. Get to needing more and I would do an in-frame or if that head gasket pops again I would go out of frame overhaul. Check for deck erosion prior to reassemble with a good straightedge to evaluate if will hold or just pop again.
Sounds good thanks for the help
Don't forget to have the cylinder head checked for warp or other damage. Regards, Clark
Just a question , would it be advisable to pull the pistons and rod sets , hone the cylinders install new rings , check wrist n bushings and rod bearings while the head is off?
While not a perfect solution, that being an engine out overhaul, it would at least let one determine if there was a major problem like loose pin. Could also just pop out the piston on the cylinder in question and if everything looked good just slip it back in. Makes a big difference when a machine is only being used 50-100 hours a year as compared to one that HAS TO BE running hard for 40-50 hours a week 50 weeks out of the year. I also would be looking very close at the top of the block especially in the area of that blown head gasket.
Hard to tell from a photo but in that first pic looking down the hole it looks to me as though mice have been eating the top surface of the liner where the head gasket seals. It may be a trick of the photo, only the OP can tell us that. If it is corrosion/erosion/whatever then a new head gasket might work but not for long IMHO. Personally I would be worried that the wrist pin had been moving for some reason, so I'd drop the oil pan and pull that one piston at the very least, just to see what was going on. That may just be me being cautious but I'd rather do that than have a hole in the block at some point.
I never tore one down, but I was under the impression that the 3200 series did not have sleeves/liners, thus making in frame overhauls a waste of time in most cases. Am I wrong?
One reason for my post , these blocks are pretty hard to come by. My thoughts were while the top is off , check the other parts to hopefully prevent ventilating the block which they say is 4000$ from CAT. The parts would be relatively inexpensive just a little labor. And you will know about the bad hole.
I also thought there weren't liners. One thing to consider: what are you going to do if you pull the piston and the pin is loose like it looks? That's not going to hone out is it? Are you going to strip the block down and get it bored a size up for new pistons? Is there room to pull the pan off in place or are you pulling the engine out to take a look and then put it back together pretty much the way it is?
We ran in to a similar problem when in framing a 361 engine ford truck . One cylinder was gouged pretty good from the wrist pin . Boss had busted out letting the snap ring loose . Ended up boring the one hole 30 thousands over in the truck . Used a precision hone and mag drill . Yep 7 new standard pistons and one oversize . Rolled in new rod & mains & buttoned her back up .
The 3204 is indeed a sleeve-less engine. The common fix for a damaged cylinder is to bore it out and press in a standard I.D. liner. Our shop never did one in-frame, but that does not mean it cannot be done.The piston and wrist pin do need to be examined before starting a repair. Regards, Clark
I consider a sleeveless block a poison pill against overhaul. I call them throw away engines. The difference in cost between an in frame overhaul and stripping down to bare block is substantial enough to discourage most people from going that route.
I understand what your saying about knocking in a set of sleeves , rolling in bearings and having a solid build. Considering the limited use , my main concern would be is the wrist pin floating around. If it was no big problem to remove the oil pan , I'd give it a go remove the rod and piston sets put in new bearings wrist pin bushes and hone all cylinders install new rings and run it in well after the first initial heating. I do know these can be bored up to .040. Its hard to throw away an engine when your replacement is a throw away again. From my understanding some later b series cummins are parent bore as well. This is not meant to be an argument but reasoning to find the best solution to this guys problem. I have a 3204 running now , seems like I here a ticking like a watch even when its not running.
Just need to remember that even with a sleeved engine you can often run into problems like counter bores needing work or deck surface needing machined. A few years back I worked on a Perkins that was a dry sleeve engine, I figured no problem push the old ones out and slide in new ones. Well on that one the new sleeves only came "semi-finished" ID. After putting them in it had to be finished honed to spec's.
I had a Kubota tractor like that. Poison pill. They know few will go to the expense of stripping a block clean, so they sell more new tractors. Sorry about the thread drift.
Hi guys, well I installed a new headgasket. Ran it for over an hour and no more smoke! There is some mild blow by, the same as before. I would like to pull pistons and send it out for reboring and sleeves but the $$$ is just not there atm and its hard to justify giving the amount I use it. There is no knocking that I can hear so i'll just baby her and hope for the best.
Can fully understand. I'd just limit who I let run it because you know how it sounds and what the blow-by looks like. If it does start sounding different or there is a noticeable change in blow-by hopefully you will know enough to back off and get to the shop before it does blow. Good luck!
Please elaborate on the mag drill set up, its pretty cool, did you actually use the mag drill for the boring? My shop has two boring bars we use from time to time for boring/sleeving but there must be a better way for inframe jobs!!!!
Yaeh Brodiesel , we used the mag drill & hone to bore the one hole .030 over . Used rough stones for the first .025 and dropped on the fine stones to finish up . The second photo was after we bored to .030 on the Ford 361 . It took out all but just a small trace of the wrist pin damage . We called it good at that . The mag handles the hone fine plus it has a depth stop on it to keep me from hitting the crank . Use a garden sprayer with diesel fuel for lube . Not a real fast method , probably spent 3 hours on the one hole . .010 over would go allot quicker . I want to say the hone is a Blue Point model but not positive ? I added a 1/2 inch drive knuckle joint to the shaft , that was not factory LOL . It was an old trick I picked up from a farmer I worked for in high school . Only we did not have the mag drill back then . Many times he would have me bore a block .010 over and if the old standard pistons looked good we would install new .010 over rings and drop them back in on gas engines .
Ademero , these things are pretty tough , you know the deal , keep oil in it and run it.