Hey all, I could use a little advice. I have a 1990 Cat 416 and the brakes make a grinding noise when applied heavily. The closest to a description is that it sounds like the grinding of gears. Sounds the same whether going forward or reverse. The brakes do work, even the emergency brake, but I cringe at the thought of doing more damage to them. I changed out the fluid in the rear axle and expected to find chunks but found none. The fluid did have the color of motor oil and a sludge had formed at the bottom of the bucket. I'm assuming that the sludge is brake lining material. Is this normal wear and noise (wishful thinking) or should I start looking for a service manual? Thanks for any help, Shane
Those brakes will chatter and grind like when the oil gets very dirty or the wrong oil is used. The correct oil is the "Cat Multipurpose Tractor Oil". Those brakes and differential assemblys are supplied by New Holland. I have even got parts in a Cat box that had new Holland plastic wrapping them. There is a plug on the brake housing you can remove to look and see how much brake lining you have left.
OK, thanks Cobra. I replaced the fluid with the cheap TSC universal fluid (says its equivalent to Cat's TO2). I actually went by the local New Holland dealer after seeing "Ford" on the rear axle to get some prices but the parts guy said they could not cross reference the numbers. :beatsme He may have just not wanted to bother with it. I'll look for those inspection plugs tomorrow. Shane
It's most likely that your present brakes are worn out. If the original Cat oil and additive are not used, the brakes wear very rapidly causing a huge dump of abrasive debris into the differential and brake housing. This debris rapidly wears out the planetary gear sets and you will need nearly all new parts inside. Prepare for a rebuild cost of nearly $2500.00 or more depending on the damage. This damage occurs quicker with non-OEM oils I might ad, having learned from experience. The housing only holds a bit more than five gallons of fluid, and there is NO filter. There is no good way to clean old debris out of the housing short of taking the entire axle apart and physically cleaning every part. Parts you will need are the planetary gear sets and housings, the brake housings, the brake and steel discs, all new bearings and seals. The axle bearings and seals should be replaced as well as they are exposed to the dirty oil. The parts are the same as New Holland though I've heard that the brake discs have been up graded by Cat. Don't know this for sure though. The brake discs are available from another source and I used them for several years. They were a teflon product that although they wore at about the same rate as the original Cat or New Holland product, the debris they produced was not abrasive and did not wear the metal housings and gear sets nearly as bad as the original product. The disc sets were slightly higher in cost than Cat, but lasted nearly three times as long or more. The true savings was in not having to overhaul the axle assembly every time the brakes went bad. I no longer have the alternative supplier name or address, but originally found them by visiting their booth at a CONEXPO in Las Vegas. They advertised in Construction Equipment magazine too. I believe they were based in Cleveland. Their other product was clutch linings which I also used. I replaced ceramic-disc clutches with the teflon product and experienced much smoother clutch engagement and flywheels that did not have to be replaced every time the clutch was o/hauled. Other things you should do is change the housing fluid every time you change the engine oil (250hrs) I also oil sampled every differential change until I had all the original brake sets replaced. This helped me obtain considerable warranty from Caterpillar from Cat on axle assemblies. DO NOT road your 416 or 420 excessively. If it has to travel more than five miles, put it on a trailer. This will save you a lot of bucks in the long run. It is also possible that your brakes do not have the proper pressure being applied and that the discs are dragging excessively. Cat can check this for you. I only had the problem once in a fleet of about thirty Cat hoes. Good luck!
Lots of good info. I hadn't considered the abrasion potential of the fluid. I'll look for those teflon discs, but I just don't think I can afford an entire axle rebuild based on the limited use I have planned for the machine. Thanks, Shane
cat 416 brakes Hi, I have a 1986 Cat 416 2x4. The right brake and parking brake works properly, the left brake works but sticks down when applied and has to be pulled up with my foot. Is there any external rods or spring that I need to check. Thanks Jim
I have a 93 416 pedals way down ....no grinding...and p brake works
check your brakefluid and bleed the brakes, if you then see a leak fix that leak and you should get it working again.
just bought a cat 428. think id better check the brakes...
yep, the pins in the linkage that runs under the floor back to the axle like to seize and rust
Sprayed the brake rod pins under the backhoe with WD40 and PT Blaster and it did not help. Today went back out and sprayed them again and still sticking down. Then spayed the brake petal pin in the cab and started working a little easier. In looking at my shop manual noticed a pin that I need to pull the plate around the shifter to access. Will remove the plate and lube the pin and if that does not help I will dismantle the brake petals and clean the pin. My property is fairly flat and I don't use the brakes much, just put my bucket on the ground when I want to stop, but I would be nice to have working brakes. Thanks, Jim
spraying them no good. You have to clean the pins up with emery cloth, lube them and reassemble everything. The floor plate has to come up. Floor plate bolts are what you want to spray... they like to break off..
Check the brake fluid level and add as necessary. If the fluid is disapearing yet there are no visible leaks,than your brake linings are worn out. This allows the brake piston/pistons to move beyond the seals and the brake fluid then leaks into the rear diff.