Hello, I've got a 1997 Cat 416 C backhoe with 1450 hours on it. The front bucket is a standard bucket.(non-clam shell). When I go to raise the front bucket it will not raise. It has plenty of "power down", enough to easily lift the machine off the ground. Bucket roll is done with the same lever and operates normal. I changed the resolver seals and had no change in symptoms. I took it to a very highly referred mechanic. He took the front control valve assembly off and went through each valve bank looking for broken springs, trash, etc. but couldn't find any problems. He noted that it all looked brand new. He then checked the packing on the two front cylinders and said they were in perfect condition as well. I also changed the filter. The rest of the hydraulic system is working good.(down riggers, rear boom controls). Any ideas or help on this would be GREATLY appreciated! I'm at a total loss on what it could be at this point. I also bought a shop manual for it to no avail. Thank You!
Does the engine load up like its trying to lift?
No, not really. When I first crank it will raise 4-5 ft, but as soon as it warms up after 2-3 minutes it no longer responds to bucket raise. Short of any other ideas, I'm thinking there may be a problem with the linkage that connects the handle with the valve. The mechanic said he pretty much checked everything from the valve assembly to the cylinders...
Check the linkage out. But i would think if it was in the linkage hot or cold wouldnt make a difference. If you can swap your up and down lines and see if you still have same problem.
Just to be clear you checked resolver seals in both locations in the lift section, and checked resolvers on sections next to bad section? The ball didn't fall out when you did the resolver on the side?
Did you try to operate another function and them at the same time boom raise ? If it is the resolver network this will allow the boom to raise because the pump has been signal'd by another function. For example hold bucket tilt back and then try boom raise and see what happens Next if it's a straight hyd pilot system try swapping the pilot lines for the boom raise and lower to see if the problem moves to lower or stays with raise.
Could someone post the parts diagram of the loader valve for a 416C , s/n 5yn6433 , and point out which part is the resolver. I have the same problem and looked on the parts diagram and can't figure which is the resolver I need to order the orings for. Hey Nige ?
The part numbers for the one on bottom of control valve are, all quanity of one for each section; 8t-2361, 1p-7363, 3j-7354. The numbers for the one on back side of valve are quantity one; 7j-0204, 8t-2360 and the ball number is 5b-9318.
Here is an exploded parts diagram for a typical valve. This one is for your machine DickJr, the diagram shown is the 130-6520 valve for the Lift function. The parts you need to be interested in are listed below: - Ref: 9 - 4B-9782 Ball 24 - 7J-0204 O-Ring 25 - 8T-2360 O-Ring 26 - 5B-9318 Ball (there are 7 of them. 6 in one location, 1 in another) 27 - 8T-2361 O-Ring 28 - 1P-3763 O-Ring 29 - 1J-7354 O-Ring
Thanks Nige , from what I'm seeing this can be done without removing the valve from the tractor or is that a bad idea?
If you're careful and make sure everything is clean before you start, and that you don't drop anything into an inaccessible location, I don't see why it shouldn't be possible.
I would recommend removing the right rear tire as there are holes in the frame to access the resolvers. Have you done any pressure testing to see if it is stroking? Have you watched the linkage to see if it is pulling the spool up? If the spool does pull up, run the tilt circuit and see if it operates.
Do what Big Ben said first. It will eliminate a lot of things.
When lifting the front bucket , it will raise about 6' then slow way down. When this happens you can actuate another function and the bucket will raise like it should. I don't think these parts will be that expensive , so I think I'm going to try it week after next. Mostly I use the hoe function but it gets aggravating when I need the front bucket and its slow or doesn't lift at all.
I picked my machine up from the mechanic today. Still broke. He checked everything from the handle, including handle linkage, the entire valve assembly, and packing one both cylinders. I'm at a total loss now. I have to ask him tomorrow whether or not he tried swapping the lines around. While trying to lift the bucket operating another function does not change anything. The rear boom and down riggers still work normal. No Idea what to try now.
There was a Cat TLB machine in the dealer's shop with the similar problem....the shop crew after checkin literally everything was thinking the turbo was weak so they took it off and wanted to throw a new one at it. This was happening at the end of the day when the field mechanic came in, took one snoop of the situation and went into the parts room for a new relief valve for that circuit. The shop men said hey we should bench check that to see for sure and the field man said change it, it taint worth fiddlin with .... wa la the machine was fixed! the loader lifted and all there was a big shop bill for all the wasted time to settle up on. I dont think they changed the turbo either. Maybe?
Wow they thought it was a turbo. Sounds more like pin the tail on the donkey then actual troubleshooting.
I once got involved with a 994 after alleged mechanics had spent the best part of a week trying to diagnose a low power problem, they messed around with injector rack control linkage (it was A 3516 MUI engine), the Woodward governor, injectors, and turbos. I must admit the first words out of my mouth when they called me was "why did you wait this long to ask for advice?". Anyhoo, after they described the symptoms over the phone I simply said to them "replace the converter, the freewheel mechanism isn't locking the stator properly". I got loads of mileage out of that one..........
I am working on cat back with this issue. Is there anywhere to get a schematic for this . Also exactly where is this resolver you guys are talking about . I am guessing it’s a load sense shuttle ?
With a Serial Number, probably…. There are two of them in each section of the valve bank. See the diagram in Post #9 above. Again a S/N gets you info specific to the machine you are working on.