So my Cat 416B does this thing: If it sits for longer than a few days without being started, it will start, but will run for only a few seconds before it dies. Then it takes several minutes of cranking (and potentially killing the battery, which I've done a number of times) before it finally catches and then runs fine. Here's the interesting thing: If I park it on an incline with the rear end up (backhoe end) elevated, it will go a week or more not being started before this problem occurs. Clearly this is some kind of fuel delivery issue, but I'm not sure where to begin. any ideas?
I bet there's a check valve with something stuck in it possibly on the lift pump
The fuel lines use rubber ferrules to seal. That’s where problems can occur allowing air in and fuel draining back to tank.
That would make sense, where the fuel is slowly draining back down.
Sure sounds like a “drain back” situation.. If all the fittings are tight, I would look towards the supply/lift pump.. If there’s some way of getting into it, try it.. check the valves inside..
Might be as simple as the fuel filter assembly, with a small air leak. Maybe the lock ring didn’t get snugged up or the o-ring twisted.
There is no way that a machine of that vintage doesn't need the fuel line ferrules replaced...no way.
So I've got an official parts manual (an older one, 1992) for my machine, and lo and behold NONE of the part numbers I've been looking up---like the fuel line ferrules---exist on the Cat parts website. I can understand if they changed part numbers over the years, but shouldn't their system be able to cross-reference an older part# and direct the user to the new one? Is that really asking too much? What did I even buy this manual for?
Yes, the part numbers should automatically update. Which ones are you having trouble with?
I have a Cat 426, built in the late 80s, and I have found just about every part is still available. My local dealer almost always has the parts in stock in one of their location. You are using Cat's parts page?
Seconded. parts.cat.com/ shows everything in that fuel system as far as I can see. What Part Number is shown for the ferrule in your paper parts manual.?
It shows in all my digital literature.
I assume I'm using the official CAT parts page .... parts.cat.com? A couple of examples: My manual shows a kit for the lift pump, ...and then this was the only part number for ferrule it shows: If I plug either of these into the "Enter part#, keyword, etc" box, it comes up with "FOUND: 0 Results". I tried other part numbers from the manual at random, and some do come up. The Lift Pump assembly itself (6I0571) comes up, and cross-references to a new part number. But not the kit (I'm assuming a rebuild kit) part# or the ferrule part #. Perhaps I should abandon my old-school paper parts manual and just go full-digital to look these things up?
Put a Zero in front of any 6 digit, numeral only, part number.
Hey! That worked!
And, if a Letter is in the part number, such as 6I-0571, do NOT add a zero.
That's a good trick to know. Thank you Seems like it would be pretty simple for them to add a note about that on the webpage, for those of us still rockin' the old paper parts manuals
Those are a fairly common part also, there have been a couple of different threads on various fuel line fittings. Cat didn't make those seals, Perkins engine? doesn't matter even. Look at the style of injector and piping and order based on what those look like.
But, then, you wouldn't need us
and to add to heymccall's advice, you will sometimes come across a short alphanumeric part number, for example 5S-3. in that case, pad the numeric part with leading zeroes to make it 5S-0003.
Hey Cmark, which website are these screen grabs from?
And maybe a bit more explanation. "Old-style" Cat Part Numbers (developed back in the days when JC was a carpenter) are always in a 6-character format xX-xxxx. Where the lower case are digts 0 thru 9 and the upper case is a letter. Example 2P-4004. At one time you would get different results if you left out the dash when searching, today not so much. A Cmark pointed out with his 5S-3 example, if you have a number that doesn't fit that style, add zeros after the letter until it is 6 characters. Then when the old-style format numbers were exhausted, the format changed to all digits. The first go round was 6-digits like in your parts book. That fitted in nicely with the old-style numbers in that both old and new formats had 6 characters. Then of course the 6-digit numbers became exhausted at 999999 and the switch was made to 7-digits, starting with 100-0000. This was somewhere in the mid-90s. And there is your problem. From what you said above your paper Parts Manual is dated 1992. This was before the 7-digit numbers were released. If you had a later version of the same document it would probably have the numbers printed in the latest format. Just out if interest what is the reference number (SEBPxxxx-xx) in the top RH corner of the cover of your parts manual.? Is the 8SG printed on the cover the correct Serial Number prefix for your machine..? It's worth noting that there are now two different Parts Manuals for the 8SG-prefix 416B. One SEBP2850 is for machines up to 8SG11999, the other one SEBP2903 for machines 8SG12000-Up.
That's Caterpillar's online Service Information System, aka SIS.
aksherly, it's from SIS2. The future is here...........
You obviously have better contacts........ and don't call me Shirley. I don't think SiS2.0 has reached Latin America yet.
Can you post a link to that? The official CAT parts website I'm finding looks different.
uh .... note: my s/n is 8SG05798
sis2.cat.com is the link, but it won't work without a login.
How do I get that?
You have to buy it from your Cat dealer. Probably around $1200 P/A.
Ah What's the advantage to SIS2 over what us mere mortals can look-up on the normal website? Does it also have the service manual stuff?
Whether it’s the original SOS or SIS2.0 it will have literally everything. For your machine the list below is a snapshot of the information available.
Here's the bad news........SEBP1980 is cancelled. Replaced by either SEBP2850 for machines up to 11999 which obviously includes yours, and SEBP2903 for machines 12000-Up. There might be a significant amount of good information in it but personally I wouldn't like to rely 100% on the Part Numbers. I hope you didn't pay much for it. BTW you can get a brand-new SEBP2850 Parts Manual (version 56) direct from Cat for $115 as either a pdf download or on a CD. Most of what is listed on eBay for the 416B is either the same cancelled SEBP1980, or more expensive than a new one and they're 20+ years old.....!!!
Heh, yeah ... EBay It came with a used Service Manual of similar vintage. I paid $500 for the pair. It was what I could afford. Think the Service Manual is worthy? Hopefully better than nothing .. Live and learn, I guess
Well the upside is that your Service Manual is the correct one.....and if the individual publications in it (check top RH corner of each cover page) date from anywhere 1994-onwards (YOM of your machine) you can bet they won't be far away from being correct.
Some are 1994, one is 1993. But most---about 2/3rds---are 1992
I think you should be OK with those. At least they aren't dated too far away from the YOM of your machine.
You'd be hard pressed to find any parts discrepancies in that parts manual. I've had or have A,B,C,D, & E 416, 420, and 426 machines. Same with the service manual. @$500, you did well on the literature.
While I have you guys here: The tilt on my loader is getting weaker and weaker, sometimes doesn't work at all. I'm thinking to start by replacing the o-rings on the primary and secondary check valves (resolvers) and probably just do it for the entire loader control valve group, since I'll be in there anyway. It is a pretty old machine. Just the o-rings themselves appear to be available, but I see the primary check valve part has changed. It's about $70 for the new valve. Without having opened it up yet, any reason why I should think the valve itself---as opposed to just the o-rings---might need to be replaced?
There's been an upgrade to those resolvers. This thread should tell you what you need to know. HeavyEquipmentForums
Not sure how kosher this is. https://autosoft.group/products/cat...-service-manual-online?variant=33655425532043 I had a paper parts manual and a PDF version. I ended up selling the paper copy. I made the PDF searchable and it is much easier to find stuff.
Indeed. Thanks Seems like the thing to do is get in there and see what's what. If any balls are stuck, I might be looking at replacing the resolvers instead of just the seals.
I think that would be a good idea.
Also bear in mind that if you do have to replace resolvers with the latest Part Number that you then have the added benefit of being able to use the new backup rings behind the O-Rings on the resolvers.