Backhoe being used to clear snow . Worked fine until there was no reverse, in First gear. Then realized no forward in first or second. When in 3rd gear it seems good . Transmission not slipping, Transmission oil not low
Whats the serial there's atleast 2 different transmissions
1WR09044
According to the system that particular machine has a powershift transmission (as opposed to a direct drive). Is that correct.?
Nige , Sorry about delay in responding , I was away from internet yes you are correct , it has power shift transmission
OK, that settles that doubt. Your OP is not 100% clear because first you talk about no reverse then about 1st/2nd forward. Which gears exactly are you missing.?
no forward or reverse in FIRST gear on shift selector no forward in SECOND gear on shift selector while in THIRD on shift selector it has both forward and reverse ( MAY ? be shifting into low gear because it does not stall engine)
That points to Cluitch #1. See table below. To confirm your suspicions regarding 3rd Speed, try raising the wheels completely off the ground using the stabilizers and the front bucket. Then cycle the machine through each gear in turn and watch the wheels. To attempt to identify where the problem is located requires some precise information.
Thanks Nige with the machine OFF the ground wheels will not move FORWARD in 1st or 2nd on the gear selector will not move REVERSE in 1st on gear selector It WILL move in REVERSE in 2nd on the gear selector It will move both forward & reverse if gear selector is in 3rd or 4th
Based on the application chart you have an issue with Clutch 1
I agreee, but is it electrical (external) or hydraulic/mechanical (internal) in the transmission.? Question to the OP. How good are you with tools and do you have a reasonable toolbox.? Because things are about to get really interesting and if you don't feel competent to do it yourself now is the time to bail and get someone else in. Here are a couple of illustrations that identify which solenoid valve on the powershift transmission controls what. The first illustration is from above. The arrow indicates the front of the machine. The second is of the RH side of the transmission. Again the arrow indicates Forward. The numbers on the illustration refer to the following solenoid valves. 1 - Clutch #2 2 - Clutch #3 3 - Reverse Clutch 4 - Forward Low Clutch 5 - Forward High Clutch 6 - AWD (Front Axle Drive) Clutch 7 - Clutch #1 Fortunately for the OP solenoids #6 & #7 are the same Part Number - 121-4036. I would suggest that the first test should be to disconnect both #6 & #7 solenoids from the machine harness and measure the resistance in the solenoid coil of each one. They should be the same resistance - around 10.5 ohms.
Nige Thank you very much for your assistance as I stumble through this In your second illustration #6 appears to be upper & #7 is the lower I did not get to measure resistance While attempting to clean corrusion off it I noticed that the wiring from # 6 appeared to be very loose I moved it more& (see photo--------well it's no longer good! Now I do not have ANY GEARS (FORWARD OR REVERSE) So this was not the defective one , but it is now ! Should I order TWO 121-4036?
Well at least you have found the problem.... You are correct, the upper one activates the front axle drive and the lower one is for the #1 Clutch. Believe it or not but the 121-4036 solenoid valve has serviceable parts in it. See illustration below. #3 is a 130-0013 Coil Assembly. It comes complete with the wires and the electrical connector and will be much cheaper to buy than a complete solenoid valve. The coil can be removed by first CAREFULLY removing the large nut on the end and then you should be able to slide it off. It may be an idea to hit the nuts with some penetrating oil first, you don't want to shear the threaded part of the centre shaft of the valve trying to undo the nut. I would suggest that you only replace one coil at a time, then there will be no chance to get the electrical connctions (top LH corner of your photo) back together worng.
Parts on order will advise THANK YOU for sharing your knowledge
As I said above, be VERY careful when removing the nuts on the end of the solenoid valve to avoid snapping the shaft. Do that and you will be up for a complete new valve instead of just a solenoid.
Re # 7 solenoid that has wire broken from coil ----I have applied penetrating fluid over past 4 days , but that nut does not want to slacken . I moved it a tiny bit , but it seems that the coils is also moving . I am afraid to pull harder ! any suggestion ? Re # 6 Solenoid ,,, suspected problem source --------- I have checked the coil and it has 10.3 ohms. what should the voltage on the wire going to the solenoid coil be ? Should it have power only when gear selector is in 1st ? or 1st & 2nd?
Is the centre spindle also turning with the nut, as well as the solenoid coil.? If not, the nut is probably stuck to the coil and the two of them will come off together. No harm no foul because the coil will get thrown away anyway. Give the end of the spindle threads a good scrub with a wire brush before you start. Try using a big set of vice grips to get hold of the solenoid while you try to turn the nut. If the nut is not moving on the spindle you have bigger problems. Try using a hammer and chisel to tap all the way around the circumference of the nut in the direction of the arrow (not anti-clockwise) to try to break it free from the coil. You might also need a bit of heat. Should be machine voltage AFAIK. It should be energized any time the gear selector in the cab is in a position that uses #1 clutch - So 1st & 2nd Forward and 1st Reverse.
Nige I do not have any diagnostic info , so I am completly indebted to you ! Re # 7 solenoid --- wire broken from coil----I used your suggestion of tapping clockwise (I had tried counter clockwise!) on the nut with cold cut. Instead of the nut coming loose the complete valve loosened in transmission. I have not removed it since I am still waiting to receive new coil. It is free to unscrew when ready. except for cleaning around it what do i need to do before removing it? Re #6 solenoid --- suspected problem source ----the coil has 10.3 ohms. Wiring harness to solenoid has 4.5 volts with gear selector in all gears( 1.2.3.or 4) (for & rev) to access the harness is almost impossible Can you offer suggestions on where / how to check for machine voltage which it should have?
Note that I said above that it had machine voltage AFAIK. Can't see anything to the contrary but the explanation of how the system operates is not 100% clear. I could be wrong. Seeing as for all 6 clutches the power supply comes from the same control unit then why not try testing some of the other solenoid valves and see what voltage you get.? If you don't have easy access to the solenoid valves on top of the transmission then you could always open up the dash panel and get into the back side of the transmission controil unit.
A good clean of the area around it before removing is all it should need. It's not the end of the world if you have to remove the complete valve to get the solenoid off it. It mean you can put the big hexagon on the back side of the valve assembly in a vice and then a wrench on the nut. I wasn't suggesting trying to tap the nut clockwise with a cold cut. I was saying to tap the nut in a direction parallel to the solenoid valve, as per the arrow. With the nut corroded to the coil that might well have jarred it loose.
Nige I made an error in above posts CORRECTION # 6 has wire broken from coil ( upper solenoid) #7 was the suspected problem ( lower solenoid) which has 10.3 ohms on the coil & has only 4.5 volts on the wire
I checked voltage going to solenoid #6 ( top with wire broken !!!) it has machine voltage 14.1 I do have the floor board removed but did not check voltage on any other solenoid
I got that. Either way I suggest measuring the voltage at all the other colis and see what voltage you measure. That would confirm that all the coils operate on machine voltage.
wire to solenoids #4 and #5 both have 4.5 volts ( key on , engine not running) same voltage as #7 which was checked with engine running solenoids 1,2& 3 not accessible
I understand access can be difficult, that's why I suggested getting into the control on the cab and measuring there if the checking at the solenoids was not possible as a result of limited access. I would suggest measuring the voltage with the wheels up off the ground, engine running and with the transmission engaged in a gear where that particular solenoid is used. It's not necessary to test in all 8 (F & R) speeds. The list below includes everything apart from #6 wihch activates the FWD. In 1st speed forward you can test solenoids #4 & #7. In 2nd speed forward - #5 & #7. In 4th Speed forward - #5 & #1. In 3rd speed reverse - #2 & #3.
with the dash opened I see switch's, relays & something that i do not recognize ! on far right of the panel, is that the transmission controller? i'll attach a close up of it If this is not the controller, what should i be looking for ?
Looks to me like you’re noise maker for audible alarms
My bad. I thought it was behind the dash panel and should have confirmed before giving you that info. It's actually mounted in the RH "battery box". See attachment. Use the electrical schematic to compare wire numbers.
Thank you for the information on controller location and schematic , I have not checked further on the wiring situation because I was waiting to receive the new solenoid that was on order Removed solenoid #6 from transmission , put it in bench vice , heated the nut & worked it loose. worked it about 1/2 way off before the shaft twisted off !!!! ( I had ordered coil only plus a complete solenoid) Install the new solenoid , it screwed in easy with fingers for only maybe 2 turns , then it became stiff to turn . I worked it out & in until it was in and seated. Proceeded to install the coil on the solenoid, it seemed to be not tightening any more . though I had stripped it , so left like that . Started engine , no forward or reverse gears , saw oil leak from transmission . used a rag to wipe & see where oil leak was The new solenoid was broken off---- guess I overtightened it and broke the solenoid shaft ! NOW I HAVE MORE SERIOUS PROBLEM I used socket to unscrew the solenoid , but only the nut part came out . The plunger part of the solenoid is stuck in the transmission. can not pull it out with fingers. should i put vise grip on to pull it out or is there a bigger problem ? ( the old one had no resistance to go back in but new one did have resistance to screw in ) Sorry to be going on & on with details , but if anyone can get me out of this I think it is you !
You're going to have to get the broken part out as best you can. Just try not to drop any parts inside the transmission.
Finally have the spool valve from broken solenoid removed from transmission . I put the nut on the grinder and removed all external threads from it. That allowed the nut to screw in using the internal threads and again attaching to the spool valve. With #7 solenoid removed I was able to pry from top and bottom and get the jammed piece out. NOW FOR THE CONFESSION The new solenoid was a replacement that I bought on Amazon for $265 . It looks same as the CAT solenoid ($336), except the taper at the end is slightly less. I now have a CAT solenoid which I have installed to replace the damaged # 6 solenoid . I now have forward and reverse , except in 1st &2nd ( same as when i started) Will proceed with diagnosis and advise THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP
Go back to my post above and check the output voltage to all 7 transmission solenoids at the control when different gears are selected as per below. All tests should be by back-probing the relevant connector(s) with the transmission wiring connected. You will need the wheels off the ground supported with the stabilizers and bucket, and the engine running. In 1st speed forward you can test solenoids #4 & #7. In 2nd speed forward - #5 & #7. In 4th Speed forward - #5 & #1. In 3rd speed reverse - #2 & #3.
Sorry for my delayed response (again !) After installing new solenoid had an oil leak from steel line on side of transmission after waiting 2 weeks for parts I had the line welded yesterday. we now have all gears working in F & R As per your original diagnosis the problem was SOLENOID # 7 , controlling clutch #1 I am greatly indebted to you for your diagnostic information & especially your patience while we worked through it Previously looked for assistance on this forum with no start issue . but never got such great help as with my transmission issue maybe I'll repost that one ! THANKS FOR A SUCCESFUL DIAGNOSIS
Thanks for the update. It is unfortunate that you had so many setbacks while doing the diagnosis & repair but unfortunately that is the price you pay when working on older machinery. At least the fix was cheaper than what replacing a transmission control unit would have cost. Regarding that my apologies for steering you to the wrong location behind the dashboard when in actual fact it's in the battery box. You should. There are a number of electrical experts who I am sure can offer help. Just be sure to include as detailed a description as possible of the symptoms.