I have started a project with a buddy of mine to repower his CAT 910 , the 3204 engine put a rod through the side of the block and 3204's are impossible to find in this part of canada plus in my opinion they are not the best engine cat ever made by a long shot. no where near as reliable as the 3304 found the the 920 and larger machines. so me and another friend of mine convinced him to swap a 4bt, he's a cummins guy to with lots of parts around and I have a decent machine shop for a home garage so we both agreed to help with the 4bt swap anyway we can. I will try and post some pictures as we go but photo bucket and me never seem to get along. I have been videoing the process so if anyone wants to sit down and watch some shop video instead of the fake stuff that comes on tv nowadays here is the so video so far.
For pictures you don't need "photobucket" or any of that stuff. Just save pictures to someplace on your computer and look under the box you are typing messages to the thread and there should be three blue buttons. The middle one says "Upload a file" just hit that one and select the file with the picture you want to post and when it asks how to display select full size. If your pictures are way to big you may have to use some basic picture program to "resize" them. I personally use "Faststone" That does look like a well equipped shop so you should not have too much trouble with this project. Not sure if he ever finished the project but knew a guy who was working on installing a 8V-71 Detroit into a 980 Cat!
Thanks! I'll give that a try when I get them on my computer that sounds like an interesting swap, I like the old Detroit's , I was going to buy this 910 myself back in march and swap in a 3-53 actually, but the guy wouldnt budge on the price so I passed. then a month ago he wrote me asking if I was interested in it for $3500 less then what I offered him back in march but I just bought a 2001 yanmar this fall so I passed on it again and my buddy bought it back, he owned before the guy who let the rod leave the block.
Not sure what information you have available on the 910, I do have access to Cat SIS and with a full serial number should be able to access most of any information you may need. Just wondering if that 4BT is set up for a "Wet flywheel" seems like at least a double lip seal might be needed to keep trans oil out of the engine.
the second video I posted is part of the wet flywheel conversion adding in the oil return port that the cat engine had. new rear seal from komatsu should be here tomorrow, cummins was zero help here with that, unless he had a cpl number for an engine in a wet application they didnt know how to look up the seal for him. and our buddy that supplied the aluminum #3 housing (the one that came on the 4bt was iron) and the flex plate used for the flywheel cornerstone also had a brand new wet application starter sitting in his shop.
I know what you mean about Cummins at sometimes being of no help. Too many times if it isn't for an engine in a KW or Pete they don't want to hear about it! Way back in the 1970's I was working on a Hough 120 loader motor. That had a wet flywheel housing that was sealed to the rear main seal housing of the engine with a large oring. All the bolt holes that held the flywheel housing to the engine block had square cut seal rings around them. Called the local Cummins dealer and they said those things MUST be Hough parts! Called Hough dealer and they said NOT OURS call Cummins. After a bit of back and forth finally convinced Cummins parts monkey that being the seal retainer and flywheel housing both had Cummins part numbers one them that just maybe the seal rings between the two were also Cummins! That said in later years I found one parts man at the local Cummins dealer who was great. Chuck! Any time I would call for parts I would ask for Chuck. He always answered the phone with the snotty YEA! What do you WANT! I just say Hi! Chuck this is Ken! and his tone would change like magic to What can I do for you today! I'd give him a few casting numbers off some cooler housing or other parts and like magic he would be able to find the gaskets that were related to what ever odd-ball engine I was working on! I knew many people who hated dealing with him but that was their problem. Well you have too much work to be reading my ramblings, get back to work!
got some pictures to post up finally. here is the flywheel as it was from cat. here is the gear pattern cut into the cat flywheel which forced us to use he cat flywheel on the cummins engine back of the flywheel turned and drilled to fit a cummins b series crank and to use a modified flex plate as a ring gear. center cut from a flex plate normally used with an Allison 545 on a cummins.
here they coupled together here is the cat oil return port in the flywheel housing. this just sends whatever oil finds its way into the bellhousing back to the transmission pan. here is the one I added to the cummins housing. on the inside I could add a big lip to catch the oil like cat did due to clearance with the ring gear, but with the centrifugal force of the oil going outwards and the bevel on the edge of the hole the oil should want to escape through the port and not build up in the housing.
here is everything mounted to the engine. here is the 4BT the next part for me to make is make a cummins gear fit the shaft of the cat hydraulic pump. luckily both are an SAE B mount so the pump itself bolted to the gear housing, had to be bolted on upside down in relation to how it was originally due to clearance issues with the injection pump. and here is the hole in the 3204
Looks like an interesting project. Nice work on the machining and designing.
Definitely a cool project! I’m enjoying the videos and pics. Keep them coming!
I got the hydraulic pump drive gear done and the video is up, I don't have any pictures because its just a gear on a pump. the original gear didn't work work out but we got another and made it work.
Lookin' good! So what is next?
I think Wednesday we are installing the engine in the loader. i'd hold off because the only real issue now that we know of is the injection pump has an electric governor where the 4BT was originally on a generator, so it needs a different injection pump which would be much easier to change with the engine sitting in a shop instead of outside in the snow when its -30C/-22F, but my buddy is pretty set on installing the engine this week.
You mean you have trouble working with fur-lined mittens on? Agree it would probably be a good idea to wait till the correct fuel pump is available. Unless you just want to hang it in place to begin fabricating the motor mounts. I'm assuming if this is like most Cats the engine mounted to the transmission so you will just have to work on the front mounts along with some plumbing for that pump and coolant lines.
engine mounts are built just have to drill new holes the frame a little wider then the factory because the front of the cummins is a little wider the the 3204, lines for hyd pump have to be made becasue cat had steel tubes coming off the pump for a distance then connects to hoses so my buddy is just using all hose now. the rad hoses actually might fit as is maybe a little trimming but the ports are in roughly the same area and they are the same size as well.
well we got the engine in the loader yesterday, it was below -30C and F, and the wind was gusting 35mph/ 60kmh so we were pretty cold but it got done and i even got a little video surprisingly.
I give you ALOT of credit for doing that in those conditions, I'm so cold from watching it that I'm going to go have a whiskey to warm up now too, cheers! Great job all around!
Why would you want to do it when it's -30?
we don't have much choice but to work in the cold and honestly I'm used to it and don't mind it to much. Jan and Feb are always very cold here, its odd if we get a day warmer then -20C/-4F , we had that day unfortunately on Wednesday it was quite nice out by our standards but we didnt have everything ready to install the engine so it didnt get done. so we did it yesterday which was mostly because my buddy wanted it done asap but also because it was even colder today. the wind last night drifted in my driveway pretty bad and in order to get my loader started which is always plugged in I had to setup a frost fighter under the engine for half an hour.
Dang, you quit before you had it running? I almost had to put mittens on just to watch the video and I'm sitting maybe 8 feet from a wood stove loaded with some good hardwood!
well yesterday we finally got the cummins running in the cat, all is good so far! exhaust isnt hooked up yet thats why so much smoke from the engine bay but the turbo elbow and the original stack line up pretty good so a bit is going up the exhaust stack.
Y hope you support that hyd pump the weight will break the engine plate
Agree on having some added support for the hyd. pump. Also I'm guessing you might be planing on adding some shroud from the fan to radiator.
I know we talked about the bracket for the hyd pump and I thought he made something while the engine was still in his garage but I'm not sure honestly if its there yet or not, there will be one though these B series love to crack that gear train housing. the third guy in this project who supplied the flywheel, bellhousing and pump gear and owns the dodge with the Hiab boom used to install this engine has a John deere 544 we put a 5.9 cummins in 5 or 6 years ago and that has a cracked gear housing that I need to weld up some day. the plan is on our next days off, 3 of us work the same shift, to travel the loader back to the owners house so he can work on it in his driveway in front of his garage instead of out of his truck like we've been doing. there the wiring will get done, injection pump changed ( found one last night actually) , fan shroud extended , exhaust hooked up as well as the air cleaner.
Any update on this project? I wonder how well a 4BT would do in say a 943?
loader worked well and still does, My buddy sold it while he had no use for it, regrets it now as he lives off grid and said a few times wishes he still had it. should be a fairly similar swap into the 943. not sure if the flywheel housing on them has the same oil return port as the 910. if not it makes the swap that much easier. same goes with the hydraulic pump. I Might be swapping my 920 yet, it does not have the port or the hydraulic pump so Id just have to do the flywheel machining same as this 910. find a B series air compressor or a belt driven unit. and figure out a transmission cooler. one problem I see with going from the 3304 to a 4BT is weight, I'll be using the 920 with forks a lot so its lifting capacity is something I'd like to keep. Finding weights on the 3304 was conflicting but the 4BT dressed is only 800LBS and the 3304 I've been seeing 1800ish. so I'd need to hang around 1000LBS of counterweight.
Commendable job well done! Keep up the Great Work! ~ Respectfully Orangeman