Greetings, I'd like to know the meaning of this error code. The LCD screen inside the cabin shows "Implement - FAULT" next to the code, so I'm assuming it's a problem related to the bucket somewhere perhaps? It would be very helpful to know the specific cause and if possible a general troubleshooting procedure (if it exists or Cat provides it). Thanks in advance.
Can you provide a machine Serial Number please.
CAT0938KLHFW00899
This is the troubleshooting procedure you need.
I appreciate it. Do you by any chance have the electrical schematics for this serial number?
See attached
On the off chance that a notification could read any of the commenters here, this same machine shows this error as of today and won't work. Does anyone have some diagnosis file for this code and a troubleshooting procedure? Things like expected voltages or resistance would be helpful. Again, serial number: CAT0938KLHFW00899
So the E695 Event in your photos is not actually the problem, rather the programmed action of the machine is response to a problem elsewhere. There will be an Active Diagnostic Code (or Codes) somewhere else that is setting off the E695. These Codes will likely be related to the speed sensors for the transmission. Look for anything like 3565-x, 3566-x, or 3750-x
Got it! I'll look for those codes and report back with the findings
Looks like I won't be able to make it to the quarry to check the codes until monday. Could you perhaps attach the testing procedures for each error? Or just one of them if they're identical. It would help tremendously once I'm physically at the machine with multimeter in hand. The unluckiest part is that the error triggered while the machine was at the quarry, far enough from camp that starlink's router wifi won't reach there. I really have to go there properly prepared, otherwise it's a lot of wasted time and fuel commuting 2:30-3 hours to and from. Occupational hazards I guess
It appears as though you are in luck. It does not matter which of the 3565-x, 3566-x, or 3750-x Codes you might have, the testing procedure is the same for all of them. See the attached. Also see your message inbox for an electrical schematic.
In my case the machine doesn't move at all. This attached document appears to indicate a series of troubleshooting steps for when the machine moves. What is the difference?
It makes no difference whether the machine moves or not, the Codes will be the same. Find what Diagnostic Codes you have and do the relevant tests.
Alright, thanks for clarifying. Here's hoping I'll be able to get it working as soon as possible Electrical schematic will be very helpful as well, so I appreciate you providing it for me.
Just to make sure I understood correctly: the error codes for this particular problem will be the same if the machine runs or not. So if the error code is, say, 3750-2, I have to follow one of two procedures: If the machine moves, I have to test sensor and ECM for voltage and/or resistance, which the document explains. If the machine doesn't move, I have to perform a different testing procedure " Symptom Procedures - Transmission" to find why it's not moving. Does this second testing procedure involve additional steps prior to the ECM testing (which is the first step to follow if the machine moves)?
The bad news as far as you are concerned is that the procedure referred above does not exist in the system......... See the attached for determining Diagnostic Codes. I suggest that you do this first and let's see what Active Codes are present.
I'm at the machine. Here are the error codes that appear on the service tab, in order from top to bottom of the list. CODE OCC SYSTEM ACT E627 4 PARK BRAKE E284 5 BRAKE PRESS E1424 1 DRIVE MOTOR X E695 0 MOTOR SPEED DETECTION X E576 1 DRIVE MOTOR E350 4 TILT LINKAGE 351 62 IMPLEMENT X 70 127 PARK BRAKE 1250 1 PROD LINK COMPONENT E361 3 ENG COOLANT TEMP E232 0 FUEL SEPAR WATER X 3547 254 ENGINE COMPONENT Which of these could be what's causing the error 695-03? And what would be the troubleshooting procedure? Thanks in advance.
The only obvious one appears to be the E1424 for the Drive Motor. However when reading the troubleshooting procedure, which is the same as I uploaded in Post #11 above, it appears to me that E1424 is a consequence of a speed sensor fault, not the root cause of the problem. Did the loader have any reported issues of moving at reduced speed before it failed to move at all.? In the absence of any Speed Sensor Codes, active or not, I would suggest to test all three motor speed sensors. You will find them shown in Grid B-5 on Page 12 of the electrical schematic. they are marked as motor speed sensors rather than transmission speed.
I found a hystat troubleshooting guide for wheel loaders that may be of some use.
These would be the same testing steps as in the troubleshooting document for sensors you attached previously, correct? I tried unplugging each of the three sensors and measured the supply voltage, which was at 10V for all three(normal readings, apparently). But I haven't done any testing in the ECM side of the wire.
Does measuring the voltage with the sensors connected change anything.? I would suggest you look closely at the number of components fed by the +10v wire 799 WH. There are a few on there that could potentially cause issues. For example it provides pwoer to the joystick position sensors and also (quite weirdly I thought) to the resistor for the A/C switch.
UPDATE: I ended up going back home without success getting the machine fixed. There was some stuff in the speed sensor troubleshooting guide that involved getting my hands on resistors and just the ECM as a whole, which I wasn't sure how to do. Later this week, I'll be having another crack at it, but I want to go with a bit more certainty. The electrical diagrams show a rough location of the ECM, but it's not clear to me how to access it in order to perform the appropriate tests on the J1 connector and the speed sensor resistors. Should I remove the screws holding the cover outlined in orange? Or should I access from inside the cab? If it's the latter, is it necessary to remove the driver's seat? From my interpretation of the diagrams I would have to do both. I found an operators manual for CAT938K online though not sure if it's appropriate for my serial number. In any case, it does not have any instructions for accessing the ECM and physically interacting with it. The other doubt I have is about the meaning of "spoon into the back of the ECM". This is just a language barrier thing obviously. Is "the back of the ECM" accessible from the outside of the machine or from inside the cab? Does "spoon into" simply mean "insert the multimeter probes at the appropriate contacts"?
Also, for what it's worth, the implement doesn't work either. Raise, tilt, nothing. The operator of the machine said it didn't show any odd behaviour in the previous days, jerky movement, slow speeds, and so on. He was just starting to drive up a slope when the gas stopped responding and the machine just retreated a few meters back down with its own momentum, similarly as when it's in neutral gear without brakes on. It's been stuck there since. One of the techs at justanswer has answered the questions of a user with a 930K with the same errors that I have. Unfortunately part of the answer is locked to me, but the part I can see indicates that it's most likely a mechanical issue in the drive train, rather than a speed sensor thing. The main tell is that the machine does not move.
If the steering system is also not working (can you confirm that.?) then that indicates not only no drive but also not a single hydraulic implement system is operational. Under those circumstances my first suspicion would be on a failure of the coupling between the engine flywheel and the hystat/hydraulic pump assembly. Both small Cat hydrostatic-drive dozers and the skid steer product line have a similar type of coupling and they are known for failing with higher hours. How many total operating hours does this machine have.?
It has about 10000 operating hours
The steering indeed does not work. If it's evidence of anything, we also kept the engine running for 5-10 minutes and the hydrostatic pumps were cool to the touch. They did not seem to get any warmer. Do you know which part in the coupling assembly tends to fail more often at higher operating hours? Whether it's the coupling with part number 385 2754, the flange or even the bolts.
I would bet money that the coupling has failed. You can find the Part Number of the coupling in the 332-3638 attachment above.
I've been looking at that attached file, and our nearest Finning shop has 385-2754 for about USD 750 and 346-8615 for about USD 390. I'll ask other dealers in the area, but I wouldn't expect a significant pricing difference. EDIT: Apparently the part number is now 598-1700 and the illustration shows the whole rather than the separate parts. Thanks a lot for the help so far. It's pointed me in the direction of the problem being coupling related, confirming one suspicion we had. Plus there are similar cases as mine available online and they too point to E1424-02 + no working hydraulic system being caused by the hystat train and the coupling. I'll ask local Cat techs for quotes for the repair service as well and try to share them here for reference. Based on your experience, is this typically a field repair or does it require getting it to a workshop? Disassembling the flywheel housing and the other parts looks like it could be tricky, but I can't be certain as I don't know the typical procedure.
It all depends on the facilities (including lifting equipment) that are available on site, the weather (although I know it is coming into summer right now), altitude, etc, etc. I can tell you that doing it "by the book" the first step on the procedure is that the cab has to be removed. Draw your own conclusions. Personally I have never replaced a coupling on this model so I really have no idea what are the details of the job. As you said the design & Part Number of the coupling has changed and I can also see a number of Product Support Programs for replacing that coupling. In those circumstances I think it is fair to say that the coupling is/was a known weak point in that machine.
Tough luck. Well, you gotta do what you gotta do. We have an old 931B skid steer laying around here, which we replaced with the 938K. We're considering just shipping it to the quarry in the meantime so that the workers can keep working normally. It's an old piece of steel, but it works. For a makeshift solution, it's probably the best we got.
Update: the people over at Finning got back to me with a quote today for a replacement of the torsional coupling of my 938K, to be done at the nearest Finning workshop. It totals at around $13k before taxes, including labor cost for disassembling and reassembling the machine, spare parts and a few other extra services like replenishing refrigerant, oil, etc. Is this reasonable?
First question. Do you know FOR CERTAIN that the coupling has failed.? Unless you have new informatiion since you last posted it was only suspected at that point that the coupling had failed. If you don't knw for certain then it is a lot of money to remove the cab and disassemble everything only to find that the problem lies somewhere else. Effectively you would be writing Finning a blank cheque because once the machine is in their hands you are not going to get it back until it is fixed one way or the other. From your previpous posts the cost of the two pieces of the coupling was just over $1k from Finning, so by logic the rest of the $13k (+ taxes) is labour cost. Are they including any other parts in the quotation apart from a new coupling.? Do you have no machinery available to you that could be used to remove the cab, even if it involved having the loader transported to the nearest large town.? A large forklift or even an excavator would remove the cab pretty easily. Where exactly in Argentina is the machine located.? I have never done one of these couplings but it appears to me that once the cab is removed the job is relatively simple to do. See the attachments for the R&I of the cab and the coupling. there are two types of coupling. I suspect what you have now is Type 1 and the replacement coupling will be Type 2. I need to correct that information. See below from SIS. The 385-2754 Hub & 346-8615 Coupling are replaced by a 596-1788 Coupling Gp.
The quote lists a cost of 10k for labor(5k for dismounting and another 5k ish for mounting). It doesnt include the replacement part (whose part number you posted). Im not 100% sure it is the coupling that needs replacing, though there is a good amount of information pointing me in that direction. I would need to run more tests somehow. Earlier you posted an exploded view of the hystat pumps train. Would it be a reasonable/feasible idea to try removing or displacing the last pump mounted on the train (which I believe is the lube pump) so as to see if the shaft has a spinning motion when the engine runs?
I don’t see any reason why not provided that there is enough space available. It would have to be done carefully though, literally flicking the starter for a second or so should be enough to tell whether the pump is turning or not.
I'll look at some schematics to get a better sense of where that pump is and its surroundings. Hopefully it's reachable without messing with too much stuff. So far, the lack of hydraulic functionality coupled with the active error code makes me lean firmly towards it being a problem somewhere in that hystat pump train. Having the confirmation that there's no spinning movement from the shaft would be helpful.
So, hello again and happy new year! We went over to the machine again, slightly pulled back the gear lube pump(not disconnecting any hose) and didnt notice any motion from it. I didnt want to pull it back even further cause oil came out and I didnt want to make a mess. The oil level did dip slightly, a couple milimeters or so, when starting the engine, then reset back to the previous level. Not sure if that indicates that the pumps are working or something else. We follow the troubleshooting procedure for the speed sensors and everything seemed in order other than two of the sensors being switched around (motor1sp1 and motor1sp2 if my memory serves). The wire colours that is. Brown where it should be orange and viceversa. But once again, the resistance and voltage looked ok. I dunno, I'm still thinking it's more likely a mechanical problem rather than electrical, and that it is located somewhere in the hystat pump train.
Back to that pesky coupling again........
Last week we finally went ahead and disassembled the machine. Indeed, the coupling was busted. We installed the replacement and the machine was working normally again, thank goodness. Praying there are no more issues related to that for a while... Thanks for the insight, tips and technical documents which have all been very useful. Hopefully this thread helps someone else in the future.