I extended my idler arm with grease. Now the yoke is rubbing on the wheel. Is there another adjustment or is my chrome idler shaft broken since it is leaning down? Are there any alternative repairs for this?
At a first glance I'd say that the pins & bushes in the tracks are so worn the adjuster has over-extended. Others may have differing opinions.
Well, the tracks seemed to tighten up nice but when I attempted to back up my shaft spilt. So it's almost broke in half and I need this machine to load on a trailer and unload at my shop so I can figure out how to fix this. I am thinking I need to attempt to weld the top of the break to limp it on the trailer. Any idea why the yoke touched is this a normal problem with these older machines? Trying to understand what why and how, I messed this up? Everything was working great till I tightened it up with grease.
I've seen this before on a 53B , which is different but work the same. The chrome rod has been extended out of the rear bushing and that lets it lean down. Also the yoke shouldn't touch the idler. It looks , which it needs to be measured , like the rails are pretty well shot. I don't know the measurement but you can measure across four pins and it will tell you how much wear you have. The positive , the pads look good , and if the rollers are good you can do a pad swap to new rails , new segments and rock on. About 3000 would catch it. I am currently putting a new set of rails , pads and segments on my 943. Also front idlers. I will post some pics here if you don't mind. Also I can direct you to a place to get the parts if you need.
I think it's possible that your idler bearing has collapsed allowing the idler to move backwards, grab the yoke and drag it downwards when you reversed.
Yair . . . Ignorance speaking. Does that chrome pushrod have a ball end to allow for misalignment as the pivot moves forward from new rails worn out rails? Like Cmark I thought about the collapsed bearing/broken shaft scenario but no sign of any oil? Cheers.
The yoke pivots at the rod end and also at the fork end to maintain alignment. The rod runs in a bush at the track frame end so it's either broken or come out. When an idler gets to the stage where the tread is rubbing on the yoke, the oil is usually long gone.
Yair . . . Gotcha Cmark. Perfectly obvious in first pic. (thumps head) Cheers.
You need to move the rock guards forward. there is another set of bolt holes in the track frame. unbolt it and move it until the edge of guard is flush with the track frame. Doing that will give you around another 1000 hours.
This^^
It looks like it has already been moved ahead. If the op can remove the cap on the adjuster valve and see if the block is close to the frame casting it has been moved. With the rob being pushed out so far it would lead me to believe its out of travel on the adjuster. Usually there is about 3 to 4 inches from the front of the rock guard to the end of the roller frame to allow the idler to be moved. I may be dead wrong , who knows.
Looks like it's butted to the roller at the back, should be one or two bolt holes forward still I think.
lantraxco , I see that now. If the idler is moved ahead , does the swing arms lay back so the adjuster works properly? I am currently putting all this on my 943 , With new rail and idlers I would start with the idler butted like this one is? I'll get some pics , but I got all the good and then some out of my u/c. The bushings were flaking and the segments had worn to the drive hub. Didn't get into it . Georgia Iron , the chrome rod should push back in against the tensioner if its like mine.
How is moving the rock guard going to fix the bad bearing?
He didnt say anything about a bad bearing. Just said yolk was rubbing against idler and track adjust was fully extended. Moving guard forward changes the lower mount for idler giving you about 4-8 inches of adjustment on track tensioner.
The round thing in the middle of the rock guard is the lower pivot for the idler, idler doesn't slide like a dozer, it's on the end of an arm that pivots. As you move the lower pivot forward, it moves the yoke backward, allowing for more adjustment, as ship660 said.
Yair . . . So what is the design philosophy behind the pivoting rather than sliding idler? Cheers.
Darned if I know, I always figured Drott or somebody built one that way so everybody else did too? It might be because of the front idler always taking a beating on a loader as opposed to the dozers, maybe the pivot deal reacts faster and with less wear than the sliding setup? Also I suppose the idler travels in a sort of arc when it hits a hummock so it has a little bit of suspension travel?
I'm still in a learning curve so to speak, but it looks like the way the rock guard bolts on and pivots is designed to hold the added weight of the loader. I know my dozer , the idler kind of floats up and down a little when working. We had Case dozers , and they had rubber springs that went between the top of the roller frame and idler mount. Looking closer , its really a pretty good set up as far as being solid and taking the weight , still allowing the adjustment of the rails. I have been around 955 ,but never paid any attention to how they were put together.
Yair . . . Gotcha fellers, I figured it had something to do with extra weight of the loaded bucket and constant digging. I have had little to do with diggers but I think Allis used the conventional system with their crawler loaders . . . some of the Allis's and Cat's had a high and low position for the idler . . . low position for blade work and high for agricultural and scooping. Cheers.
Moving the lower pivot forward before you bend/break an adjustment shaft is much easier. I was in the same boat last summer. Getting the bolts out of the master link is the hardest part of replacing the adjustment shaft. The bolts holding the pivot mounts to the track frame were no peach either. I suggest getting the torch bottles filled so you have plenty of heat. Then buy new bolts to put back along with a big can of anti seize. You will know immediately if the last guy anti seized the bolts or if he just threw them in the holes. I moved my pivot mounts forward using two ratchet boomers and short chains off the bucket teeth once they were unbolted, it went pretty smooth. Good luck John
Yair . . . The bolt together masters were just coming in as I was going out. There were (I think) three types. One had a series of small "alligator" teeth, one (I think from Berco) had a single large tooth and there was another with two uneven sized teeth. I thought they were micky mouse, the ducks guts or any other way you wanted to say marvellous . . . it beat the crap out of a jelly gun or flogging master pins in and out of eights and nines with a FBH. I see on various machinery sites reference to issues getting bolts out which puzzles me as I recall no issues. There were no such things as impacts and all trackbolts were tightened with a couple of blokes swinging on eight feet of pipe. Coming off was the same and I loved how you could heat the link cherry red in line with the bolt and they'd crack loose real easy and you could often back them out with a half inch ratchet. For us trackies they were the best thing since sliced bread. Cheers.
Hopefully the op will see the bad bearing when he breaks the track.
I managed to get the tractor back to our shop. Took my backup machine and picked up this one. 320 mile round trip of hauling loaders. Lost one 17.5 tire, and cracked another tire. Lucky I had one spare. Got 2 miles to the gallon. I welded the track adjuster rod back together and that held all of about 10 feet. I ripped another ramp completely off my eager beaver trailer and turned a 1.5" steel bar into a pretzel and ripped all the hinges in half. Then of all things the ramp wedged in the tracks and tried to roll back around and jamb between the tractor body and grossers. Making it almost impossible to get off since the machine was still just barely balancing on the rear of the trailer. But I got the 200 lb ramp loose and home we went. The rock gaurds do indeed have another set of bolts to move the idler forward. Which is what the service manual tells you to do also. I have located the alligator master link and I will be in the process of breaking the tracks apart. Cat track adjuster rod cost is $300.00, cat classic aftermarket adjuster rod is $115.00. I am unsure of the quality difference. Any ideas if it matters? I am unsure of the idler bearing as of yet. Will post repair pics as it occurs.
Sounds like my luck. On my 943 which I have back running now , If I had moved the idler forward it wouldn't have lasted long. Maybe a couple hundred hours. My bushings were worn to the point they were flaking metal off. The pins have heavy wear as well. Yours may be in good enough condition moving the idler would get you a lot of time. I'm curious to the condition yours are actually in. Look at my thread and check out the pics of the bushings and segments.
I made it down to Cat today and was able to view both brand track adjuster rods. Cat brand and the cat classic part brand which is an "aftermarket part". Cats was $300.00. and the classic was $115.00. Can you tell which is what? The seals were another $15.00.
I also did a little prying with my 10' pry bar. I lifted the broken adjuster up from the bottom. As it moves up the yoke moves away from the idler and the tracks tighten accordingly. It appears that the only reason the bar broke is because the idler bound up when it touched the yoke due to improperly over extending the adjuster bar too far vs not adjusting the rock gaurds/idler brackets forward to compensate for wear in the under carriage. A friend I spoke to told me that once the wear exceeds adjustment, the rental company he used to work for has a second set of track adjuster rods that have been trimmed approximately 2"s in length. He stated they moved the under carriage adjusters back to start, then gas axe out one link in the track, saveing the alligator master link. Using the shorter adjuster they then run the under carriage to destruction.
Glad to see your on the way back to digging dirt. I have shortened some tracks on 953b&c models before. I would just cut out a pin and link. It is hard on the final drive segments it would also mess with the phasing of the rail. Instead of 40 links now 39 made more noise and occasional popping noises. The last one I did the guy ran it for another 1500 hours. Do the math at $100 an hour.
I'm guessing the cat classic was the one with no paint on it. Got to save where you can. I have used cat classic with good luck on certain items. I'd use a cat classic for this in a heart beat. It seems to me that taking a link out could cause a whole other host of problems to come in the future. I would think it would be hard on the final drives. I guess if it had enough wear the pitch would agree with new segments because of the stretch. G I are you planning to short track your machine?
Cat Classic parts are made by manufacturing subcontractors and are not held to the same metallurgy as true Cat. Unless you are literally abusing the crap out of it,which I do not think is the case, the classic aduster will work fine. Good luck, Sounds like you are on the correct track. No pun intended.
In post #3 look at the swing arm on the idler. You notice that it has gone past vertical toward the end of the roller frame. Anytime you see this there is internal wear on the pins and bushing in the track. Pumping your tracks out extends the rod out too far and there is not support for it so sometimes it breaks. As far as taking a link out it has no effect on the final drive. The pitch on this chain is 6.91" and it should be 40 links long. The pitch is from the center of one pin to the center of the next pin. So making the chain 39 link long you still have the 6.91 pitch. However the pitch does start changing as internal wear increase. What happens then is your bushing start riding up on the teeth of your segments causing them to wear the tips thinner and then eventually breaking them off. Taking a link out is the common thing to do for most smaller contractor as they can usually put off buying new chains for a while if money is tight. Hope this info helps. James
Thanks for the info James. I didn't know for sure about the pitch. I just knew they made a lot of noise and would pop on the segments from riding up on them. The rails where very worn on the ones I took a link out of. The guy I did it money wasn't the problem it was always time. I could take a link out in about 2 hours compared to changing the undercarriage. He would run them until time was available to change it out. All of the guys I work for seem to be in the time crunch mode more then money crunch.
I located the alligator link and broke the tracks. 1/2 drive sockets would not cut it. I needed a breaker bar with 3/4 Drive and a 15/16s socket to get the bolts out of the pads. [ ATTACH]157014[/ATTACH] Of course the bolt that holds the adjuster rod to the yoke broke off due to corrosion. This left some of the bolt in the yoke which held the pin in from coming out. I had to make a home made threaded puller to remove the side pins which held the yoke on. Then I was able to get it off and bore out the broken bolt to remove the pin. I have not been able to get the rest of the broken shaft out of the bushings it rides in. Any tips?
The broken shaft should have nothing holding it in. You may have to weld something to the end so you can get a grip of it.
When I worked on my 43 , the shaft moved easily in and out. I wonder if you can get a big pair of vise grips on it and pull it out. Have you found your new adjuster rod yet?
Yes I bought the cat classic aftermarket rod. The shaft that broke actually had some significant wear in the bar. It also appears the break took some time to occur. It is possible that it is bent a little in the bushing. For any one that is breaking a track for the first time, make sure that you stay clear of the track when you pry the alligator clamp apart. The track weighs enough to break your feet and legs when it flops towards the ground. This is the first time I have split a track. I was surprised because my pins look really good. They have been turned but they look to have very little wear. Yeah, me. The guy that sold me the machine told me the under carriage was about 45% life I guess he was not giving me a sales pitch. Second question. My next task is to rebuild all my lift cylinders. I bought a chain wrench at harbor freight but it is no where big enough to loosen the caps. What do you guys use.
GI , I can recommend one thing for sure. Take the cylinders off and take them to a hydraulic shop. I tried to do this on my backhoe. The piston is so tight I couldn't pull the rods out of the cylinders. Those cylinders are heavy and the retaining nut torques upwards of 5000 ft lbs. It will cost some but its a convenience to drop em off and pick them up fixed. Those guys have the proper tables required to hold the cylinders while rebuilding. It can be done the way your doing it. I've heard people say they heat them cherry red to get them loose , I'd hate to do that to an expensive part. BTW to answer your question I used a BFP , big freakin pipe wrench.
Well, My track adjuster rod was one stuck sob. I ended up buying a 5 ton pull back ram and welded a big chain to the broken end. The bar was corroded and bent and crammed full of rust and dirt. Broke my weld twice and pulled a smaller chain apart. Ended up taking 2 7018 sticks to get the weld and big chain to hold. This $50.00 ram payed for itself. Got it at harbor freight. If you have ever had a high bill from cat for this kind of work, I can understand why. Everything takes so much time.
Looks like you will be up and running soon. I picked up my replacement final yesterday , dropped it off at the shop this morning. Your 19Z would not fit my 03Y , my tractor is a narrow gauge. We still might talk later on about it. Looks like your idler mount rock guard bolts came out ok as well. Post up some finished product pics.
GI when you start back together remember to apply anti-seize to every bolt you touch. I was never a believer in it until I tore my 53 down for an adjuster rod. Anti-seized bolts back out, the rest of em twist off. If you don't do it for yourself do it for the next poor fella. John
If there is any one on here that has Mr. Murphy as much as do... The dang bore the track adjuster rod slides in is pretty much shot. The bearings and sleeves that it rides in are broken all to pieces. The new rod does not want to go back in the hole and the entire track roller frame needs to be removed to repair it according to the service manuel. To top it off my 3/4 breaker bar and 1.5" socket is not up to the challenge of removing the bolts. My cheater pipe proceeded to bend my drive bar. Do you guys put new parts in the guide area also?
You're right. To remove the equalizer bar trunnion which contains the adjuster rod bearings, you will need to remove the track frame. But it's not such a big deal. I see you have the lifting capacity. Having the tools that are up to the job however is a different matter because there's really no substitute. You'll probably have to borrow or buy some 1" drive stuff.
Quick update. The track adjuster rod rides in an assembly that contains 2 bearings / 2 seals on the inner bore. The outside of the bore has two seals and another race and bearing. If you let the adjuster rod wear through the bearings it will egg hole the housing and you will need custom welding and boring done to fix it. Mine hopefully was caught in time with slight housing wear. In order to remove the adjuster rod carrier, you need 4 3/4" x 10 nc forceing bolts to press it out of the roller track frame, I used some home brew water pipe bolts since they have long threads. A short threaded 3/4 bolt is not long enough to use. The roller frame weights about 2K lbs and is a pia to move around alone with out a crane and remote. I used a fork lift. In order to press out the rod carrier, the roller frame must be pulled off the front equalizer support which means the whole roller frame must come off. The 1.5" bolts that hold the carrier on took a 1" drive breaker bar with a 10' cheater/extender pipe to break loose. A 5' pipe would not cut it. The parts to rebuild one assembly cost $350.00 at cat. So you can figure 500 to 600 total parts. I am into 3 days foolin with this and it is still all apart, cat did not have the bearings in stock so they were special ordered and it will be another week or so before assembly can occur.
Apologies for the diversion Georgia Iron ....Only just reading through your thread now. A contractor that had been working here, years ago, left behind a jelly gun that was neatly split in two. Must have been scary stuff firing one of these Scrub?
Yair . . . Queenslander With care they were okay and very effective. From memory I used about two inches of jelly. The best one was a piece of 12''x12'' steel about two feet long with a couple of pieces of one inch pie for handles . . . I just got every one clear and hunkered down in front of the blade, mostly used electric flashed across a Dolphin torch battery. They were pretty good on whistling ducks when loaded with a pound packet of half inch by eight gauge self tappers. I think my best shot was approximately twenty whistlers, four wood ducks and a poor old blue heron. Cheers.
Iam thinking these blokes used four inches instead of two. It was about 10 inches round, nearly two foot long, split perfectly in half. An equal portion of the holes, one for the bolt and another perpendicular one for the fuse/det, on each half. How did you secure the thing against the recoil, another tractor perhaps?
Yair . . . Queenslander they just sat there, moved of course but nothing drastic, mostly lined the pin up as low as possible on the idler Cheers.
what the heck is a jelly gun?
jelly as in gelignite...... usually a thick-walled steel tube, blocked at one end, that you fill with a certain amount of explosive, anchor it to a difficult-to-remove pin, light the blue touch paper and stand well clear. We used to use them on the big draglines to get the pears out of rope anchors. Bearing in mind the wire ropes were probably 4-5" diameter it was far easier than banging away at the pear with an FBH, even a 28-pounder.
That explains it pretty good Nige . Guarantee I will never see it done in a landfill.
Digressing but I once blew the collets out of the A Pins on a 992C using det cord fed through the centre bolt hole into the gap between the collet and the pin. Must have got a bit excited with the Primacord because when she went off the outside collet landed 300 yards away from the machine. Ooooops ...........
Quick update, I got my track adjuster rod repaired and both idler assemblies adjusted foward. I went ahead and spilt my other track to check out my second adjuster rod. It was in good condition and freely slid in and out. Night and day different from the broken rod side. After the complete rebuild, I realized a past repair that was preformed on the seized adjuster was the cause of my failure. A bearing was pushed into the center of the adjuster housing. Which blocked the grease holes which in turn caused it to sieze up and break.. so don't push the bearing into the middle of the housing if you rebuild yours. Only two bearings are needed not 3. I was able to remove and repair the assembly with out removing the adjuster housing retainer, which is what sits on the inside of the roller frame near the grease fitting. I left it in and took extra care to torque down the adjuster assembly so that the 4 bolts lined up with the retainer ring. Saved me some extra work...
Excellent thread. I am thinking of picking up a 953B and this info is invaluable.
So your up and running now? I'm still in the process of final drive rebuild , its built just have to have it installed.
Hard at it. I celebrated labor day by myself, doing this.. Tractor is up and running clearing a new house site and a 500' driveway on a mountain side. 20 - 30% grades 4 x 4 only driveway, customer is only putting down gravel. Tracks have been working much better and I might have them a little to tight but I have been turning and working some sideways on the slopes and I feel better like hopefully I won't loose a track.
Looking good , at least your headed back to the plus side of things. That's a pretty nice looking 53
GI, if you run at book tension, you won't lose a track. I know they seem a bit top heavy compared to a dozer, but your backside always thinks you're ten degrees steeper than you are.
Nice work and hats off for persisting! I went back and re-read this thread again as I'm planning a track adjuster rebuild this weekend on the 175. It won't 100% the same, but gives me a good idea. Hoping not to run into any surprises like you did.