Howdy folks, I have a few questions.. A friend of mine has a 955L, that supposedly needs steering clutches, the left side is good until it warms up, right side seems fine.. I found a guy that parted out a 955L, and he said the steering clutch packs and final drives were like new, so he kept them, and has them for sale (cheap, he said).. My question is could the clutch packs just be swapped out, or is there a whole lot more involved than that ?? Also, he cannot find the serial # on what's left of the machine.. Any insight would be well appreciated. Thanks, Chuck
Are you absolutely certain its the clutch packs and not a hydraulic issue? Have you changed the filter and done a pressure test? As far as taking the packs apart its quite a job. the whole thing needs be put in a press to compress the springs and all the keepers removed much like a valve spring keeper on a cylinder head. not saying it cant be done. as far as swapping the whole thing are you talking the ring gear also? If so I dont know about using a different ring gear than what the pinion is worn together with. Kind of like car rear end. If you change ring gear you change pinion to match. I guess the question is are you talking whole assembly including hubs, drums, ring gear and so on or are you talking just the clutch friction disks and steels? Also one other thing. this thread might do better in the track loader section and not tractor/ loader/backhoe section.
Thanks workshop, No, I am not absolutely sure it's the clutch packs, he was told that by a CAT mechanic, but I dunno what all has been checked for sure.. Could it be a hydraulic issue, only effecting one side ?? Thanks for explaining how the steering clutch assy. is configured....That means what I was hoping for is not feasible... Sorry if I put this in the wrong section, can I request a moderator to move it somehow ??
I think the best thing would be for one or more of our track loader experts who specialize in these models to chime in and let's do some testing to get to the root cause of the problem rather than assuming which as we all know usually leads to the mother of all fcukups ......
I was'nt real clear in my 1st. post..(Ijust re-read it) I'm thinking of buying the machine from him, so it's not here right now.. I'm trying to decide if I want to do this, knowing it has some steering issues.. The good thing, from the countless hours of reading/searching "955 steering clutches" I've not found that this is a common problem/issue......clutches, that is..
Don't panic yet. There are a number of posters on here who have years of experience with the non-electronic Cat track loaders like your 955L. One of them is sure to pitch up soon.
Thanks Nige, I sent digger a pm to have this moved to the right spot/thread...
Yeah. It's about time that guy started carrying his weight around here! :stirthepot
Need more info here. What do you mean, works fine until hot. Stops steering/turning under power or stops moving completely. One would be slipping clutch the other clutch not releasing. There is a probability the clutches complete on bevel gear shaft could be dropped right in if bearings and throw out cages are okay. Not for sure but is a chance. Later Bob
Hi Bob, He said, when it's cold, it works fine, but after it warms up it'll start pulling/pushing to the left..........like the clutches are'nt engaged any longer.. If that makes sense..
Ok heres the deal. When your tracking around it pulls one direction like the clutches are slipping. Of course at this point that diagnosis is just speculation and I agree one would think of the clutches first. Heres the thing. To get the clutches out you must remove the seat frame, fuel tank, battery box and a whole bunch of sheet metal so you can remove the top cover on the steering clutch housing to access the steering clutch shaft assembly. Hate to say it but you cannot do anything without removing the entire shaft along with the clutch, brake and drum assemblies. Point being it is a crap load of work that requires lifting devices to lift more than the mere human can. Its a bunch of work. So that being said it would be great to know for certain that the clutches are slipping. So now while you are tracking around and its pulling left what happens when you push the right pedal? does the machine stop? does it keep moving forward or turn right? If it does stop id say yes there is a chance that the left steering clutches are not engaged. Notice i said not engaged and not slipping cause we dont know that for sure right now. So where to go from here. Well again a pressure test would be good. normally one would think of doing this test to see if you are getting pressure when the pedal is depressed to release and disengage the clutch pack. but in this instance we would be looking for pressure when we do not want pressure releasing and disengaging the clutch or allowing it to slip. so what could cause this? a bad valve body? binding pedal linkages not allowing full release? a sticking bearing on the pedal shaft not allowing the pedal to fully retract and keeping pressure on the clutch? I had this happen to me on my 955L by the way. I think this is something you really need to look at before diving into the clutches. If the machine still will turn right then I dont know your clutches are slipping cause if they were you couldn't get enough bite to drive left track and turn right. Ok so after doing some diagnostics and trouble shooting ruling out the hydraulic controls and hydraulic steering system then the next step is to resign yourself to your fate and take a look at the steering clutches. at this point your into a full dis assembly even to just swap out the steering clutch pack. and if your steering clutches are that worn out there is a real good chance the hub and drum that the steel and friction discs ride in have real bad grooves worn in them where they engage one another. If this is the case then those must be replaced also. the deep groves can cause the steels and discs to hang up and not fully engage when they wear. At this point your gona start to spend some serious $$$$$$$. Rule out the simple easy to fix stuff first. Hope that it is one of these and not bad clutches. one of the simplest thing you can do right now with no tools is tell us what happens when it is pulling left and you step on right pedal. even just a little to disengage the clutch and not the brake.
wouldnt you need to change pinion gear that matches the worn ring gear. I am not sure about changing one and not the other. I always thought they were a matched set just like any ring and pinion.
They are not a matched set but need to be compatable, tooth shape wise. Later Bob
Thanks for the help so far fellas.. I can buy this machine for dam near scrap price, so I think I'll get it, so I have it here to diagnose..
Good Idea! I'm sure there will be many here who once you have some more detailed information on what does work and what does not work. Also they will be more than happy to help you spend your money to fix it!:wink2 Actually I'm sure they will save you enough money to pay your subscription to this site many times over! What they didn't charge you to join!
If you'd said that before then the advice would have been instant and unequivocal. Buy it - what do you have to lose..?
The 955 is a lot easier than a 951 to work on, when the fuel tank comes off you can soon make headway if you are stripping out the steer case, the clutch springs can be removed with All Thread and a few bits of fettled junk, the cross shaft stripping is a but of work but doable without any fancy tooling other than a shop press. tctractors
Thank you all for your encouragement so far.. I'll get the machine, and we'll go from there.. I've never wrenched on anything this big before, good thing is I have a John Deere 410 backhoe if i need to do some heavy lifting..(I hope I don't)
Very cool and sounds like a good deal even with the problems. I would definitely pick it up for that price! Post some pictures of it. Curious if it has the d5 or d6 undercarriage.
I talked to my buddy earlier, he has the charger on the batteries, he said he'd try and move it outa where it's at this weekend.. I will post some pictures.......Once I figure out how to on this site >> This is the same machine that dug the basement for the place I'm sitting at right at this moment, I ran the thing back then,,,, it was 2001 when I built this house, 1st time ever on a machine like that.... Buddy said, "you think you can move that pile around the front to backfill ??"...... I said, "probably, how do you run it ??" He said "get on it, you'll figure it out, if you can run a backhoe, you can run anything".. I figured it out..
Dont want to hijack this thread but since we are on the topic of 955L steering clutches my 955L I has the LH pinion shaft and carrier out of it. entire steering clutch assembly had to come out to get to it. Also LH final drive disassembled. I need to get my LH final drive back together. If i check end play on the RH pinion shaft and flange it is pretty large or so I think. Does anyone know what this end play should be? I cant find anywhere in the manual where it would say whats acceptable. Its large enough the very outside friction disk has bent fingers on the splines where the drum has bent them over when being released and no longer lined up with drum splines. I think the only way this can be done is with this large end play. I need to figure out why this is causing this issue. Has anyone seen anything like this?
The top pinion should have a small amount of end float (in-out) from the pinion roller bearings, the B/Drum flange should also have only a very small amount of lift-tilt to it with good bearings on the pinion, the in -out float is usually around an 1/8" but more or less than this figure is not an issue, on the flange tilt on the outer edge it could be 3/16" as a max or around that spot but there is lift and float, its not much trouble to pop off the flange and pull out the pinion re-sealing the shaft as you go, as for the disc issue a picture would be handy to see. tctractors
I am going to start a new thread on this issue as to not hijack this thread. I will cut and paste your reply there. HeavyEquipmentForums
Just wanted to let some of you fellas know that I did'nt "fly the coop" on/about this machine.. He tried to start it last weekend, but fuel pressure would'nt build, and batteries went south trying to crank it.. Just saw my buddy a bit ago, he said there is an oil pressure gizmo that he did'nt know about that will not let fuel get through until engine builds oil pressure.. The machine has been sitting for 2 years, so tonight he got it cranked till she was trying to lite (puffing good) then the batteries ran outa juice... I suspect it won't be long till I have it here at my place.. Batteries were brand new when he parked it, he said it makes him sick, but the batteries might be shot cause he left em in the machine ??
Don't know of anything like that. What's your the serial number?
I saw that. Something aftermarket maybe..?
The latter model D333 and D330 engines had something like that on the governor housing where it wouldn't allow the rack to come out of no fuel position till oil pressure released it. I don't know if the 55L had that or not.
That sounds like what he said.. Serial # is 85J534x..
Sure looks like we have the same vintage and mine doesn't have that. 85J5044
85J series machines should have a 3304 engine. I don't remember the 3304 having that feature but it is possible.
The compact Scroll pump has a rack limiter that lets the engine start and run at low idle until the oil pressure overcomes the peg around 15-18 psi it was common to see after market engine saver kits that shut the engine down fast on loss of oil pressure Centinal (sp) being a common 1 tctractors
That takes me back a few years! Seems I recall that if an operator mashed down on the governor peddle while starting it would hold pressure on that little pin and they would think there was something wrong. Tell them to let it up then hit it again it was like magic now it worked. Same kind of thing with the mechanical linkage transmissions in loaders. Guy would not realize it was in gear and start engine. Then sit there shifting forwards and reverse revving engine to get it to move. Had to tell them to put in neutral and count to five, not really needed that long but it worked. I think some never understood that was normal they seemed to think there was a problem I should fix!
How can you tell if the pump has this feature?
By posting a few pictures we can tell you if it has it and how to trick it into full rack travel. tctractors
Saw my buddy a little while ago, he said that for some reason the machine is not building fuel pressure, it has a little flow but not like it should.. Kinda like maybe the pump shaft in the fuel pump is stuck, "up"... If any of you guys have any suggestions how you would free up such a thing (if that's it) were all ears.. Keep in mind, this things been sitting for 2 years... Thanks..
Not that this is your issue but I had a hard time bleeding all the air out of mine after repairing and changing fuel system parts. Did not change the pump but getting all the air out took some time. Have you tried a small shot of either (very small shot)
It's not no fuel that is locked out but just held to low idle or close to it. IN the above picture the thing that does this is circled in red. Plunger #18 has a pin that holds rack back till oil pressure is enough to push it against the spring to the left.
Not sure if this was in this thread or another but someone was asking about the priming pumps on these older engines, some parts are available.
I might start by eliminating as much of the fuel system as possible. Connect a hose directly to the fuel pump and put the other end in a bucket of fuel then see if you get good pressure. If it has been siting for two years could be something in a fuel line or the tank restricting the suction line. I'm assuming new filter has been installed. Also have you cleaned the fuel strainer? That is mounted under the fuel injection pump? Actually this should be the first thing to check before the bucket of fuel idea!
Thanks guys, I'm gonna send him to this thread, rather than trying to relay all this info without missing something.. Hopefully he will join in on the conversation... I know he's cuttin firewood today, so maybe this evening.. Edit; He did mention something about a copper line that was kinked/squished years ago, but he said it seemed to run better after that happened.... so I'm assuming that line has something to do with the fuel system ??
We did'nt forget about this project fellas.. My buddy was off for a week and had some time to mess with getting this machine started.. Replaced 1 battery, new fuel line....he got covered in diesel, and is getting very frustrated.... He said he has good fuel pressure @ #4 injector line, but the others just drip.. ?? He tried to log on here but the site won't allow him, he thinks he was on here years ago and can't remember his password..
Can you elaborate on how to "trick" it ?? Thanks..
The 955L didn't get the 3304 until s/n 85J6247
Easy, go to post 38 that has the red ring on the rack travel limiter, look down from it to the blanking plug on the angle, remove this plug and with the throttle open poke a thin screw driver or pin up the hole and give the peg a prod, you will feel it give allowing full rack movement, sometimes this peg can stick after a long snooze that these older CAT's seem to get, once freed they usually seem to behave, don't do this with the engine running you are warned. tctractors
Thank you tctractors, I will pass on the info...