Iam trying to find the cause of high soot levels in our 2013 built D6R, S6T00779. This is a tier 2 motor.. we had some discussion about it here... HeavyEquipmentForums The dozer had new injectors and heui pump about 200hrs before we bought it. It had 5400 hrs on it at that stage, but before working it we had our Cat dealer give it a 6000 hr service...so changed every drop of oil, coolant, filters etc. as well as checking valve clearances. We initially worked it for 40 hrs before changing oil and retesting. The machine uses next to no oil, has very little blow by and runs very cool regardless of ambient temperature. I later had aftermarket undercarriage fitted and while it was there I got them to check boost pressure with ET which came back within spec. Certainly doesn’t lack power. Fuel usage is around high 20s to mid 30s litres per hour. Machine constantly blows black smoke, might not be considered excessive but it’s always there, particularly at low to mid revs. Last suggestion on the test result is to check engine data..wondering if it is possible that horsepower has been lifted beyond the 195 advertised.
i would check the accuracy of the atmospheric pressure sensor with ET as it sets the base line for all the engine pressure sensor readings including boost I would also perform a timing calibration with ET
Check your air cleaner .
was mentioned in the first thread
Thanks Mark, I’ll definitely do that... providing I can resist the temptation to just whack a new one on. It’ll cost me more than the price of a new sensor to get someone to make a special trip.
Also have a good look at the precleaner.
Haven’t delved into the precleaner yet, but I did run it briefly without the outer filter and cover on the housing. Admittedly, only at idle but didn’t improve the smoke level at all.
It smokes at idle?? Who changed the injectors? I would want to confirm the correct part number has been installed. Also a long shot. One-time, and one-time only, I had a C9 in an excavator with the turbo wastegate stuck open causing smoke at all RPMs.
Not sure about injectors, apparently they were replaced first and pump shortly afterwards by Hastings Deering. I do have the serial numbers of the injectors from the PSR that the undercarriage mob did for me. Wastegate “appears” ok, I gently put air to it and it freely moves about 90 degrees.
Fair enough. If HD replaced the injectors then they should be right. Next question is why were they replaced? Has this smoke issue been a long-term problem? Back to Mark's comments above.
I should have been more careful with my answer above. I don’t know who replaced the injectors, but I do know that HD replaced the pump, possibly up to 200 hrs later.
Well then that should be a fairly simple check. Pop the lid off and check the injector part numbers. Does the PSR list the part numbers? I'm not sure.
I can see the problem, it does not have 3306 stamped on it.
Only a serial no. as far as I can see.
I have a naturally aspirated 3306 in a 12G grader.. that thing will certainly outlive me, possibly my grandchildren as well.
See the column saying tattletale? That's the number of times the trim files have been changed. Someone has been having a good old fiddle with this engine. I'd be even more curious to see the part numbers now.
It’ll be at least a week before I’ll have it home from where it is working. Just thinking out loud.. if I were to get HD to organise the correct injectors and bring them out, along with an atmospheric pressure sensor and anything else you might suggest.. what do you are my chances of success might be? If those particular parts aren’t at fault they could take them back but at least we could get a computer on the machine and do some investigation/calibration etc.
I don't see why not. The only problem could be that there only appears to be 3 reman injectors in BNE, the rest are in Cat Yatala so they would have to be ordered and you may be hit with a surcharge if you return them. You need to speak with a service advisor about it. Where are you based?
If you get HD out remind them to bring the timing probe. Not sure how your guys are set up but we didn't carry the timing kit as standard in our service vehicles and would have to book through the tool store when needed I ended up getting my own gear and still have it
We are north of Chinchilla on the Western Downs and deal with HD out of Toowoomba. On part numbers.. are you getting 20R-8063 for a reman injector? Seems to be a choice of two numbers for new. Also seems to be two engine sensor groups, neither of which list the S6T prefix.
Yep, 20R8063 seems to be the latest and greatest, BUT in cases where I'm getting the dealer to install new components I avoid telling them the part numbers if possible. Mistakes in the documentation can and do happen. If you just quote the serial number and let the dealer work out the correct part numbers, it avoids a he-said/she-said situation if there is a screw up. The two sensor groups you can see in SIS are referencing the engine serial number which you can see in your PSR, TXD4047.
Thanks Cmark, there’s a good chance that I’ll be passing through Tba on Friday so I can drop in and talk to them in person.
Bit of an update. The dealer is nearly four hours away but they do have a tech seconded to a large earthmoving outfit that are less than half that distance. As our tractor is still working OK, Iam happy to wait until he has a spare day to save some travelling..should be next week sometime. Meanwhile, I pulled the outer air cleaner element and gave it a blow out. The colour of the dust should match the colour of the country the machine is working in, but on this occasion it had a definite black tinge when, if anything, it should have been almost white. Venturi in the exhaust stack appears to be fine and the tube across to the precleaner is spotless.
If you leave the connecting hose between the muffler and the precleaner disconnected is it sucking hard at medium-to-high RPM.? What did the secondary element look like.? Do you have a new primary element you could put in it, even just for a trial.? A turbine pre-cleaner might also help if you are constantly working in conditions of heavy dust, as would an Ultra-High Efficiency primary air cleaner element.
I just circled back and looked at the PSR for the engine. Fuel settings (FLS & FTS) are the ones it left the factory with after being dyno tested in Oct 2013, so nothing has been changed there. Flash File Number (434-9513) is correct and also is the latest update. Full load fuel consumption on the dyno was 42.7 l/hr. Depending on how hard you run it I'd think that around 50-60% of that figure ought to be a reasonable estimate for the fuel consumption in the paddock. Next step I'd agree with Cmark's suggestion and pop the rocker cover to see what Part Number injectors it has in it. Has the turbo ever been replaced.? Is there a Part # on the data plate..?
I get the feeling that the precleaner is working fine, at least at removing dust. There was a lot less dust in the element than I would expect with a cyclone type pre cleaner. The secondary element was perfectly clean. Just thinking... the black colour of the dust could come from the fact that the engine is breathing on smoke at least some of the time. As I mentioned up thread, the smoke might not be considered excessive, but it is always present. In this clip you can pick up smoke on the rhs of the canopy..was only lightly loaded, running pretty well flat out, decelerating to about half revs. Just as bad or even worse at lower revs. Turbo looks to be original, but can’t read the data plate yet.
Awesome video. The owner of the land needs to rip it on the contour now with something like a hydraulic break out Yeoman or Gessner or TTQ ripper. It will make those bare patches fill in. Wasca wing ripping gets the absolute best results (makes the land as rough as guts to drive over though), but is pretty expensive as they take a lot of pulling. A contractor here https://www.facebook.com/Mcleanscontractingcq/posts/973066569559970 has taken over getting them made them as the inventor of them retired awhile ago. Although I personally think they need more design work done to them. Sorry to be off topic.
The fact that the turbo appears to be original pretty much rules that out, but get the data from the plate if you can just to check the box.
Cat mechanic came out Friday but found nothing conclusive or concerning. Ap sensor is fine, as is timing calibration, boost is fine, injectors are within spec with no appreciable variation between each. He watched while I worked it for twenty minutes to get it warm enough for the injector cut out test and didn’t think the smoke was excessive. I think Iam happy with that, the dozer is performing as it should, runs cool, uses no oil. We’ll monitor soot levels going ahead and see what happens, but I guess the question remains, how much is too much?
96 @ 250 hours on oil is way too much IMHO. Ask them what units they are measuring soot in though. Did he check the installed injector Part Numbers while he was there.? Can’t get them from ET, have to pull the valve cover.
After the injector test I didn’t see much benefit in pressing him to check part numbers, but I can do that myself when I get a chance. Both he and his boss seemed to downplay the significance of soot levels and suggested more monitoring before delving deeper.
The test with ET only tells him if the injector is working properly compared to all the others, it doesn't tell him if the squirters are the right ones for the engine. It might pay you to do a bit more digging into the operation of the precleaner and establish that the dust ejector is sucking as it should. The last piece in the puzzle is to get the injector Part Numbers before deciding how to proceed. If you can also get the units in which they are measuirng soot that would help.
Bit of an update on this issue… Although, never entirely happy with the smoke and high soot levels, it was performing great so continued to work it until we had an oil sample come back showing fuel in the engine oil. After discussing with Nige, we reckoned the most likely source would be leaking injector seals. Found two newish injectors… other four were corroded on top, although the motor wasn’t…likely transplanted from a donor motor in the past. Numbers on those four didn’t match those listed in the PSR. Had CAT replace all six injectors, run trim files, fitted new muffler and ejector. Now purring like a kitten with barely a hint of smoke.
Looks to be a tad dry there as well.
Good to hear. Have you had any oil analysis results back since the injectors were changed.?
No, no oil sample yet, haven’t done fifty hours yet but Iam quietly confident that we may have solved the soot problem. Without the constant whif of smoke it just “feels” cleaner. Sounds better too.. Iam sure it had a slight flutter before.
Sure is dry. Following one of our wettest years ever last year, this would have to be close to our driest ever. Six inches so far in a twenty six inch rainfall area.
TBH I’d be looking to pull samples at 50 & 100 hours, so you’re almost due the first one.
That is pretty woeful, and cattle are worth nothing as well. And feed is as expensive as hell to buy in. Lucky things are not too bad here. I am finding it hard to fathom how everything has gone tits up so fast. Who would have thought cattle prices would drop 50+%. Especially when you see what they are getting in the US. Going to give away some steers to the meatworks next week. Their mates last year I was averaging $2700 a head. I will be surprised if I get $1300 next week. Then you look at what they are getting in the US at the moment. Just saw a price in the US for slaughter cows. Comes back to roughly AU$6.80/kg carcass weight. Current prices here about AU$3.35/kg
Wow! I'm afraid you know something we haven't figured out yet. Sorry to go so far off topic.
All I know is our abattoir owners are screwing producers over a huge amount.
Of all the highly paid industry analysts we have, I doubt there would have been a single one that forecast we would be seeing these prices after the highs of last year.
We're selling deacon bulls (half angus/half Holstein) at weekly auction for $400‐$450 each. Just over $4/pound live weight. Some of these calves aren't even 24 hours old. Two or three years ago, we got half that for the crosses, and even less for a straight Holstein. We sold one load of straight Holstein bull calves (5 head), and averaged $45/head in 2020. It's truly amazing how fast the market can swing from one direction to the other. Corn prices have gone from a $5.92/bushel on May 15th when we planted our current field, to a current of $4.22/bushel today at harvest. Significant difference in projected income from when the seed was planted to when you actually harvest.
Just sold some steers,only a small mob just under 40. We fatten or try to fatten everything on grass here just to generic export markets. So these steers were about 36 months old and drought affected since there has been SFA rain in the paddock they were in for most of this year, but they dressed out at 330kg (730lb) and I got just under AU$1400 (US$890) each. A mob last year dressed out at 355kg (780lb) and I got AU$2870 (US$1844), which we knew were a bit unsustainable prices, but shows how far back it has gone in a year in a half. Five months ago I sold a bit over 40 that dressed 373kg (820lb) and I got AU$2200 (US$1400) That is where I feel today's market should be. Wait and see though the prices will rise now (indications are already headed that way) as I am a great financial advisor. Do the exact opposite that I do and you will be a squillionaire in no time, but I simply could not hold onto these any longer.
Results of 50hr oil test look promising. Certainly solved the fuel dilution issue and soot levels are greatly reduced. Fairly expensive exercise but glad to have it running properly at last. Just reinforces my opinion of the value of oil testing, not unlike the blood tests we have to have as we get older. Thanks Cmark and Nige, you were on the money as usual.
It is a good feeling getting a niggly problem sorted even if it costs a bit. To make things better cattle prices are heading in the right direction finally, not at what I would call decent money yet, but it is a start.