Hello, my first post here and my fingers are crossed for some help. I have a 1986 D3B that we have been using around our farm for almost a year. Fantastic little machine. Long story short I had a sizeable oil leak coming out of the governor shaft seal that I figured I'd attempt to fix. I went to remove the cover plate where the seal sits and accidentally pulled the governor shaft out far enough for something to fall off inside. Now I have a governor that is separated from the injection pump and I am looking for options/advice other than taking it to my local cat dealer and writing a large check to get it back together. I'm very aware of the risk of runaway which is why I'm posting to see what options exist. im local to Greensboro NC and am wondering first if there is a resident expert on here that is close by that may be able to help. Second question is I'm having trouble locating the correct parts diagram for the governor. I need to identify the shaft seal so I can replace that and the governor housing gasket. Machine numbers are below. machine SN 27Y03986 Engine SN 45V54147
Diesel Equipment (fuel shop) is in Greensboro.. Calm n press 5 for the service dept... or just show up w the gov and they’ll put it together.. they’ll have the breakdown and parts. Good luck
Great! Thank you. I will take it there before I finish removing the injection pump is there anything I need to be concerned with on the timing? I would presume the engine needs to be at TDC for #1 cylinder prior to removal. Once I go to reinstall will I need to go through the timing procedure or no?
If memory serves me right, there are pins the need to drop in.. 1 on the pump that’s on the max fuel cover..
Might be something here that will help see attached file:
Any chance you can post the file for these procedures as well? These are both referenced in the document you posted. FUEL RACK SETTING AND GOVERNOR ADJUSTMENTS in TESTING AND ADJUSTING INSTALL ACCESSORY DRIVE HOUSING Thank you very much for your help!
To be honest I don't think you need both those for what you want to do. For one thing the Fuel Rack Setting and Governor adjustment is included in a 157 page manual, at least on SIS. Second I would not suggest removing the Accessory Drive assembly unless you have access to the 5P143 timing plate to retime the drive. I will attach that just so you are clear on that part. Do you still need the breakdown on the governor showing the seal numbers?
This pump and governor is a difficult one to nail down some things on! I've been going in circles trying to find the seal for where the shaft come out of the side cover. Any chance there are numbers on the pump and governor?
Think I might be getting somewhere. Does this picture look like the pump and governor on your D3B? If so then the seal you are looking for should be item #10 in the page attached below. Also if that is the case then I need to do a little more work to find the correct install instructions for the pump as that style pump does not need the tool I mentioned yesterday.
If anyone else is viewing this thread does anyone know if there is a way to see the drawings for Cat FT1538 and FT1823 or other "Fabricate Tools"?
I've attached some pictures below of the setup. Your diagram is the closest I've seen to what my hardware looks like. The seal that is bad is the shaft seal which sits in the cover piece that the governor shaft comes through. You can see the dried cracked seal in the picture below. I think I'm OK on the seal piece as I'll take the works into Diesel Equipment and have them check the governor out and reassemble it. They can replace the seals and anything else that might be worn out. What I'm most concerned about is ##1 making sure the fuel injection is timed to the engine per specs and #2 making any final adjustments to the fuel injection system once its reassembled. I'm anticipating that it won't run perfectly right out of the gate. On #1 I'm pretty confident I have it right in my head I would just like to lay eyes on the steps for setting the injection pump timing utilizing the pin. Although I could have the shop preset the timing for me I'm sure. Let me know what you think or can find? Thank you again SO much!
Have an 86 931B loader. As far as the governor shaft seal, there is enough room to use two seals to seal the shaft from leaking. Tip from late Bob/Ont you can take to the bank. Still has to be put back together properly.
well if you are only taking off the governor like in the pictures above then timing should not be an issue. But if removing the complete pump then you will need to do the timing steps. Unless I'm missing something the gear that drives the injection pump stays in the engine and has to be pulled off from the front through a hole in the front cover of the engine. That is what the two "FT" tools are used for. To be honest I have never worked on a 3204 but have done the same job on a 3306 with a very similar injection pump. On that engine there is a bigger cover that comes off and I recall being able to use a standard two leg puller. From reading the instructions for the 3204 it appears that the access is much smaller and a special tool set up is needed. Sort of wish I was there to see the set up first hand as often Cat will claim a special tool is needed to do a job but with a little ingenuity one can get by with what is on hand. Maybe I'll try starting a new thread just on the FT1537 and FT1539.
i just reinstalled a injector pump on my D4H 3204 engine. Before i removed it, i pinned the flywheel while also pinning the injector pump. This way when both were lined up and pinned i knew that the pre pinned(timed) rebuilt pump would be aligned when reinstalled. As far as removing the pump, you will have a 3ish inch access cover that allows you to unscrew the bolt holding the gear to the tapered shaft of the pump. Loosen the three bolts(two of which are a bitch to get to) holding the pump to the housing just till slightly lose. Break loose the bolt holding the gear to the pump shaft and unscrew 2-3 turns. Tap this bolt with a sizeable dead blow hammer or brass hammer and it will break loose. BE CAREFUL removing this bolt because it has a sizable washer that needs to come out with it. The LAST thing you need is to loose that washer in the timing gear housing. The force needed to break the injector gear off the injector pump tapered shaft is not that great. A couple of raps with a hammer will do the trick. I didnt use any special tools for this. Also there is not alot of room to swing a hammer to do this because of the fan blade cage housing so this will testify as to the ease in which the gear came loose from the pump shaft...(on my dozer anyway)
So a new wrinkle just came about. I put a call into Diesel equipment here in Greensboro and they are no longer repairing cat pumps. The service guy said their old timer that repaired them died and they have no one else able to do it. ThePumpguySC - are you able to repair it? I don't mind driving it to you since you aren't that far away. The only reason I'm taking the injector pump off is to allow the governor to be properly reassembled. I don't think there is any other way to get it reassembled than on a bench. If I'm wrong here let me know. Pevo - thanks for that procedure - that appears to exactly match my injection hardware. Once I figure out whos putting it back together I'll get it off and on its way. Again you guys are awesome and I can't thank you enough for taking the time to help me out.
IMO, you're making more of this than necessary. You already have the governor housing off and there's nothing that you've removed so far that can't be reassembled with basic hand tools. The governor shaft keys into a couple of levers which will be what got misplaced when you first pulled it out and it's impossible to reassemble it wrong. Use the opportunity to replace the tacho shaft seal as well, as this is a common leak location. Only if the tacho shaft has a groove where the seal runs do you start to need special tools to replace it. The hardest part will be identifying all the gaskets and seals, but everything will be available from your dealer. Don't disturb the adjusting screws in red circles.
You might be right now that I have learned a bunch from the help here. Just trying to see if an option exists to have it done by a pro. Barring that I'll give it a go at my bench and post if I get stuck. It's nice to have access to experience that is willing to help.
From memory, the only place you can go wrong is with the governor spring seat. There should be the seat, a wave washer and, I think, a plain washer. These have to be in the right order, but if you noted their orientation at disassembly then just put it back the same way.
I was thinking along those lines too but thought it looked like you already had the pump loose from the engine and were committed to pulling it off. Assuming this pump and governor is very close to one I worked on years ago on a 3306 the main thing is to make sure the riser and weights are in the correct position when slipping the governor back on.
I agree with that entirely, however he isn't even that far into it. Literally has just the back housing off.
If you pull the governor control shaft out, levers 18 & 19 in cross section C-C and view C-C fall off the shaft. Looks like adjustment screw/s #13 have been mangled!!!!
Snowman1019, Just for a little information I would suggest if you have not looked at it yet that you check out the thread named Cat Fabricated Tools FT1537 and FT1539 There are some picture showing the tools used to remove the complete pump. But still I agree that you should not need to remove and upset the timing if you have not taken any more off than the back house as shown in your pictures.
Had a good day today working on it. Got the governor assembly back together and got my seals and gaskets on order. I do think it will go back on without having the pump removed. Once I get my seals installed in a week or so I'll post an update with some pictures in case anyone else needs this info down the road.
That's all wonderful other than this fellas engine don't have an accessory drive. Bob
Curious as to how this turned out. I have a 3204 in a D4B, it is a or was a popular engine and I did run into the "this engine is old and our fuel injection people don't know how to work on it" issue. Also found out that different SN engines had different ways of timing the pump. Mine uses the 5P013 plate but other models use a pin slid into the housing where the mechanical lift pump is. One reason I bought the CAT is that they have good parts support for older machines. It would be nice if some group like ATHS would compile a list of people who would support the older machines.
Hey Gents, I'm embarrassed to have to revive this post but I made the same mistake as Snowman and pulled the throttle shaft out on a D4H. My question is if I need to remove the governor or if there is a way to get the inner parts lined back up while it's still together?
Isn’t the D4H fitted with a 3300 engine series? Namely the 3304? Does anyone here know any other timing procedure besides the pin style? Something a litle more sensitive like drip method or with a strobe light? How does the fine timming tune is done in this engines? Or there is none besides the pin method? In this governor anyone know where the fuel increase/decrease control is? Thanks
My 8PB06217 D4H has a 3204 engine.
The late series III look to have a 3304. All the earlier versions had a 3204.
my mystake then... sorry for that
You didn't make a mistake as some D4H did use a 3304. This is where the serial number is important.
So just in case someone else makes the same mistake Snowman and I did there is an inspection plate on the side of the governor that if you remove the two bolts and pop it off you can access the two levers on the inner end of the throttle shaft. There’s a slim chance you could get your finger/magnet/pick in there and realign things. I had pulled the throttle shaft out all the way and managed to get it back together while still on the motor but when I started it the engine would fire for a second and then die right away. Turns out the inner most lever had pulled up and out from behind the spring and was resting on top of it. If that happens you’ll have to pull the governor off. Don’t bother pulling the lift pump (per manual) as the two bolts next to it are easily reached to remove the governor. The gaskets needed and the lip seals for throttle and tachometer will cost you about $40 Easy job to put back together, no special tools needed.
Do you happen to have the complete parts list for this style pump. Mine is leaking oil and needs to be resealed but I can't seem to find this pump in the manual.
Machine or engine serial number is required.
The machine is a d3b , sn 23y02525. I'm not sure the pump or engine is origonal to this tractor it looks like alot of hands have been in the cookie jar on this one, the pump on it is stamped 7w0189. And that number pulls up a pump that looks correct but im unable to actually get any part numbers or a decent brakedown. Thanks for the help
The online parts catalog for the 23Y series D3B is in the link below. Click on "Fuel System", this opens a drop-down menu in bold type. Then click on "Pump GP (Group) - Fuel Injection" - then when the diagrams appear, click on the diagram that contains your correct fuel injection group part number, and the correct engine serial number range. D3B TRACTOR / POWER SHIFT / 23Y00001-UP (MACHINE) POWERED BY 3204 ENGINE Caterpillar SIS | AVSpare.com spare.avspart.com
Awesome, thanks for the help
So where exactly is the timing hole on this pump I need to time the same thing?
It might help if you gave a little more information about what you are working on. Most if not all the technical information is derived based on the machine Serial Number.
Can I jump in here for a second and ask WHERE….do you pin the pump on the 3204 DI? I’ve been all over everything possible ..and, even had two pretty good diesel mechanics come by and take a look….nothing!!! Also…why are there two different 3204 DI engines. Mine is the one that the lines run up across the top/center of the valve cover and go through the “adapters” in the side of the head, right under the valve cover. MOST pictures you find of a 3204 DI are of the ones that the lines run to the right, off the pump…and around the front of the engine. I’ve been 3-4 months now…just trying to find somebody that knows…that can steer me in the right direction to set this pump timing. Ether….you can’t get your finger off the starter button quick enough and it’ll fire right up….run all day…as long as you are feeding it from a can, bottle or rag. I’ve cleaned and replaced everything from tank to injectors…get fuel to injectors in 2-3 pumps on the transfer pump. Cleaned adapters..lines…new injectors. It simply won’t stay running on its own.
Would you like to post some photos so that everyone else can see what you’re looking at.
You could have a plugged screen on the fuel line going to the lift pump. It's inside a longer hex fitting about 3/4" long. Gave me fits on my 3204DI until I finally figured out where it was. Can be removed with an allen wrench to clean. Engine would idle but die when throttle was applied. Finally got where it wouldn't even idle.