Hello all, I recently posted in search for a few needed parts for a 49 D4 mainly the main clutch lever which I now have. Its been sitting approx 12 years. So my issue is, the main motor is locked up. Can't turn it by spinning the radiator fan at all. The main clutch won't engage and is currently stuck in neutral. It appears to move just a touch when I move the lever back and fourth but just wont move. I did pour some oil in all the cylinders through the injectors. The lower crankshaft compartment looks great when I removed the side inspection panel. I disconnected the interlock rod to see if that would make a difference and it didn't. Any thoughts and feedback will be greatly appreciated. My thoughts were if I could engage the clutch could I then engage the starter motor clutch and put a 2 1/4 wrench on the pony motor flywheel pulley and see if it could move the main engine to free it up. Jeff
Reminds me a lot of me in this thread from last year : HeavyEquipmentForums In my case, the engine was locked because the gears in the timing cover were rusted over, but it still spun about 30 degrees. Is the compression lever open? Does the pony motor spin?
How ironic, I saw your thread and saw your pictures not knowing your other identity. I have seen many of your posted videos. Thanks much by the way. Your first encounter is much like mine. In the weeds for 12 years. It was my uncles who recently passed away. When I went to visit their farm which they have leased land since 1978 I saw this Dozer and it intrigued me. Since i'm a Airline Technician I was up for the challenge to work on something I knew nothing about. Anyway, yes I have the pony motor running, compression lever open. Top of the engine looks great under the valve covers and so does the crankcase with inspection cover removed. There were parts stolen from it, one being the air cleaner assy. Which I believe how the motor got locked up. I have no real good access to the front cranks shaft. So will it work through the pony motor with starting clutch engaged which that wont do? I currently have acetone and brake fluid sitting in each cylinder as of 9/15. I have approx under two hour drive to the place where it is at rest. So any thoughts since you have become the pro? Thanks very much for responding by the way. Jeff
I don't know much about the pony pinion clutch cause mine didn't have one. If the main clutch is stuck in the disengaged state though, I don't think that affects the pony engagement. The pony uses the outside gear on the flywheel, and the main clutch uses the inside gear. Did you check to see if the valves were free? You should be able to move them all, but if the intake or exhaust was left open they might have frozen. If you can't get them to move you can tap on them with a deadblow after soaking them with penetrating oil to free them. If I recall, I remember trying to bar the engine over by taking off the clutch inspection cover and putting a pry bar in there to spin the flywheel. Might be worth a try if you can get the angle right. How much access do you have to the front of the engine? There might be a few other things to check depending on how it's configured.
Are you referring to the big square panel between your feet? I see the clutch there but I don’t know if there is another inspection panel to see the engine flywheel that would be in front, if that is what your referring too? I see inner and outer teeth that are meshed together. I can’t put a pry bar on the teeth for that reason. I’ll check the valve movement on my next trip. Access is very difficult on the front of this D4 due the unique nose it has. Never seen one like it. I wonder if I could get a local farmer to tow it out a bit and see if it could beak something loose. It’s lower tracks are becoming part of the earth
Yes that cover, if you can't reach the flywheel from there, there is a timing inspection cover on the right side of the bellhousing where you can reach the flywheel, provided you can get around the oil filter housing...there is also a drain plug on the bottom of the bellhousing where you can bar it over from. Hopefully you can reach one of those. Send me an email if you want the service/parts manual, I have electronic copies of them.
I did try that a bit but I will look for that other inspection panel that I know where your talking about. I think there is so much grime that I haven't seen it. What about that cover for the generator? Could you pry on that gear? ? Just thought of that a bit ago.Sweet on the manuals, I do have the service and ops but really could use the parts one. [email protected] is my email. That be great if you could do that. I was going to actually ask you if you had the p/n for that cover #12 for the shift assy. On page 47 of the service man. I brought it home to clean up and it looked like something out of the Titanic. I have the boot thanks to you already I plan on heading back to the beast in a few days. So where you at with yours? Last I saw starting to paint. How is that cool dog of yours. Thanks again Matt.
The gear teeth in the timing cover are way too small to be prying on. You could pull that cover off though and see how rusty it is in there. It might be worth it to get one of those cheap borescopes off Amazon to look in there and in the cylinders. Most likely the cylinders have seized up due to the intake being open, but you probably already knew that. I would be careful about prying too hard on the flywheel teeth, it might take a lot of force to get a cylinder unstuck and you definitely don't want to be snapping any teeth off. Like you said, the best idea might be to focus on getting the clutch working so you can have someone else tow you. Get up to speed and then drop the clutch and hopefully the engine breaks free. I am getting read to reinstall my clutch and engine, then I can finally fire her up.
when the engine " breaks free" that can often mean broken rings. There is no walking that one back. I suggest keep adding oil to the cylinders and gently barring it over, rather than applying towing force to it.
Looks awesome I’m excited for you believe me! I knew there had to be a reason I haven’t heard anyone suggesting that. Makes sense. I was able to see down the injection holes ever so slightly and looks like some surface rust at the minimum on some of those cylinders. Hopefully the oil will do some help. I’ll maybe inspect with the cover off and see if I find anything else. I’ll keep in touch. Thanks much for the advice.
You have good point there is the risk. I’ll keep going with other means. It’s in neutral at the moment stuck I wouldn’t mind having it pushed out of the spot it’s in just to give the whole track a good look and a better spot to work.
My partner broke rings on one of the airplane engines by being impatient, so I am a little sensitive to that issue.
I think using a wrench on the pony to try to turn the engine is the best plan. I think you could work it both ways if you can get it to move. You will have the most mechanical advantage with that method. The pony clutch is an over center clutch. Try the adjustment under the plate with 2 bolts. You want the clutch to snap over center.
Ahh, I understand
I agree, I will be heading to it in a day or two. I was thinking of trying to adjust and see if I can get it to move. I’ll post my results. Thanks.
Certainly not a make or break, but if you do push/pull it out of its hole…I’d recommend rolling it up onto two (or three) 2x10’s per side, that will get you a bit more space under the machine to inspect/check (or keep it from freeze in, depending on where you are). Also helped my under-machine-access when I got my blade halfway up and supported… I spotted a number of “how the hell did that get up in there’s”! Cool old machine! Good luck…post up some pics so we can see the “fun”!!
I hear you. I was at it today and had no luck yet breaking it loose. I was trying at the timing inspection cover Matt mentioned. I spoke to the neighboring farmer to see if he had anything to pull it out a few feet. He said he give it a try. So hopefully I can get it into a better spot to continue on. Maybe later this week. So currently I’m stuck in neutral, clutch won’t engage and a locked up motor I get a bit deflated every time I leave it without it broken free. But I’m determined.
Hey Tom I’m a bit puzzled yet with the pony clutch. Currently it’s not anywhere near the brake. What has to happen to get it extended? Nothing I do with the lever makes a difference as it currently sits. I hear light clunk but I don’t see any movement.
Well Matt I did try the front small inspection cover like you suggested. I removed the oil fill and breather to help with access. No luck yet. I’ll keep trying. I have a very dumb question, where do you fill the transmission? I have a breather and a fill stick and those holes are way too small. My service manual never shows where? Jeff
You probably need to tighten the pony clutch.
Sorry it didn't go well. Did you ever crack the engine drain plug to check for water sitting in the bottom? The transmission fill is at the breather, you put a wrench around the square area and the whole plug backs out, it's like a 2" npt thread.
Okay I’ll look into that. I believe there are two adjustments? One with the counter weights, and your suggestion through the front inspection hole correct?
Nice picture by the way. Wow I wish the D4 I’m working on was that nice and fancy.
You might want to consider getting a bore scope for the next time you go. You can get one for around $40 that will sync with your phone and it will let you find out if it's a specific cylinder that's stuck or if it's something else completely (timing gears rusted, flywheel stuck, etc). Especially if you are driving two hours each way, it might be worth it to just keep you from potentially barking up the wrong tree as far as diagnosis goes. The hole at the bottom of precombustion chamber is 0.2", not sure if the cheap ones have that small of a tip.
Well Matt I did accomplish one feat yesterday. I got it out of its hole of 12 years !
On the pinion clutch, the pinion is probably not snapped into engagement with the flywheel ring gear. This is done with the horizontal lever to the right of the clutch lever, pull up to engage. The clutch is forward to engage, rear to disengage.
I’ll be back at it on Tuesday I believe and try a take a picture. I believe it is engaged at the moment since the horizontal brake handle? It’s not even real clear in the manual as far as what they call it.is not in contact with it. The pinion shaft is full forward. I believe and correct me if need be, to get it to come aft and disengage I would need to pinch the counter balance levers(2) and pull it back with my hand?
Nice work Yren!!! more comfortable = more likely to work on it!! I highly recommend the portable Coleman canopy/tent- GREAT place to step back into the shade (or dry) and question one’s sanity!! Folds up pretty compact too
I like it Yes I have thought of that, and just may do that.
Well I have some good news, not the news on what I really want but I will settle for small victories! I did finally get the main clutch freed up. I was able to get access to the clamp bolt on the adjusting collar and loosen the bolt. It wasn't easy but finally broke it loose. Then I had to take a brass drift and hammer to loosen it up.So now it moves back and fourth Next, I was able to lubricate the counter lever on the pinion clutch and pinch them to disengage and pull it aft Its now disengaged, however when it was in its full fwd position, engaged how was I able to run the pony motor with a locked up motor? ? Shouldn't the gear make contact with the main flywheel at that point? Also was able to get a fairly good spot underneath from the drain plug for prying on the flywheel but after much persuasion I was unsuccessful. So current state is still a locked up main motor , and stuck in neutral. Jeff
On the main clutch, you loosened the collar that engages the clutch so you can move the clutch lever? So you have all the linkage free up to the actual clutch plates, but it's not actually snapping into engagement? Just trying to understand what you meant. On the pinion clutch just like the main clutch when you snap them into engagement, there should be an "over center" where you have to push hard and it snaps over and requires resistance to pop it back open. When you freed up the pinion clutch did you feel that? Perhaps it was pushed forward but not all the way forward into engagement?
Excellent questions. So yes the main is all free. However I left it loose and turned back for the time I was there yesterday while I was trying to free up the motor. Next time I will adjust it properly so it snaps into engagement. I did also free up the pinion but also need to adjust that maybe also. I was under the assumption it maybe was when full fwd. But always was scratching my head on why my pony motor flywheel turns if its engaged, but maybe its like you say, unless something is sheared off? Will be back at it next week. Jeff
So have you actually engaged the main clutch? I'm just curious if that's the part that is actually stuck. Or maybe it's so full of junk between the pressure plates that you have to back the adjustment off so it has enough play to engage. You should be able to reach into the clutch area and feel the teeth on the pinion and see if they are engaged with the starting motor and/or flywheel. There is an additional inspection port (under the floor plate) that you can peek into and see what the pinion is doing.
Yes I had that plate off and was able to lube the counter levers and pry them loose and then pull it back to disconnect it . I was unable to pull it back before because it was gummed up and stuck. whole time up until yesterday it was full fwd engaged (starting pinion) also up until yesterday the main clutch was stuck disengaged until I backed it off which required a brass drift and hammer for a good half turn. It was weird it was disengaged but it acted like it was stuck engaged? I think the plate ring was corroded. So I ran out of time due to the fact I was underneath prying away at the flywheel with no luck. My thought from the beginning was always to use the pony motor engaged to try and break the flywheel loose. But I need to make sure that is either misadjusted or something else? Make sense? On another note your machine is looking I saw your latest post.
I was trying to say your CAT is looking great!
Update!!!! All…. I’m happy to say I have finally got the motor broke free I got the pinion adjusted and engaged, then was able to use my 2 1/4 wrench on a breaker bar and worked it back and fourth and it finally went. I now have a motor free and the clutch free. I’m still stuck in neutral and will concentrate on getting the main diesel running and then focus on the transmission.
Congrats! Way to stick with it!
Nice! These old Cats have nine lives, sometime they need a little extra love, sounds like this one found a good owner, good luck and I'll be watching the project all along the way.
Thanks much.Looking ahead, whats your opinion on being stuck in neutral? Safety interlock related?
Yeah thanks. TLC is what it definitely needed. It amazes how well and long these machines last. They are built like tanks.Never would have thought I find myself working on one of these. Its been a great experience so far.
You just can't select a gear with the transmission shifter? Could be the interlock or just some linkage is stuck. You can disconnect the interlock at the linkage circled in red, then pull that rod with spring forward (or maybe backwards, I forget). Could also be that the shaft with the interlock teeth is stuck (green circle)
Yeah I did that awhile back. Disconnected the rod from the clutch lever and could move it back and forth but however not sure if that shaft was moving. I assume it would have if I can move the rod? Yeah the shifter goes from side to side but not into any gears. I had the shifter off and it looks okay light rust on some of the gears since the boot was in bad shape. But I lightly tapped on the slides on the rail and no movement. I keep thinking the forks on the safety interlock is the problem but I could be wrong. Fluid is reddish in color and at the full line. Definitely need to change it.
It either has to be the interlock is not disengaging, or the shift fork assembly is stuck. Sending the rod back towards the rear should disengage the interlock. You can try to bang it into gear with the rod all the way forward and you should feel the vibration on the rod of the interlock teeth hitting the shift assembly, then when you slide it back you shouldn't feel it. I did encounter a situation where the interlock shaft could be moved too far over center and not disengage (since it's a cam on a shaft, and the cam can travel too far), but I think that was only when the transmission cover was off of the machine...hitting the teeth on the shift assembly should stop it from doing that. In this picture, the three circled areas are where the interlock teeth hit. When you try to slide a shift fork forward or backward, it has to bump over a detent, which makes those teeth try to jump downward against spring force to pass over it. All three of these forks are independent. I really find it hard to believe that the shift fork assembly is stuck since they are independent from one another. If they are though, I would take the shifter back off and hose down those shafts with penetrating oil, then spend some time bumping the shifter up and down on all 3 forks trying to work them free.
Thanks a ton for pictures and your insight.I know you have become a expert through your journey with yours. Your very helpful and I appreciate it greatly. I will take your advise and dig into it more after I get the main running which I’m sure will take some work bleeding air etc. Before I forget I was going to ask you about the availability of those bushings for the main clutch lever that the lever pivots on which you replaced. This is not a concern yet, but I have a lot of slop in mine.
I think I found mine on ebay by searching for their part numbers. CAT used really weird sized bushings, they are all like 20 thousandths off from off-the-shelf bushings. You can always buy ones that are close and turn them down in a lathe.
Okay cool I’ll keep that in mind. Thank you.
Short update. Trip#8 I believe. I have fresh diesel in the tank and fresh oil in the engine. Figured I pull the intake manifold off since the air cleaner was missing and thats how the water found its way into the pistons most likely. Good thing I did because it was completely packed full from mice. A habitrail if you can imagine.The two center intake ports on the engine was almost unrecognizable since you couldn't see the ports! My only regret is I didn't take a picture. All clean and reinstalled. Now I have a bit of backtracking to do by pulling the pony motor carb off and rebuild it with a new gaskets etc. I originally got it going just enough knowing if I got this far (engine unlocked)I have to completely remove it since it never produced enough high rpms. The carb is my next trip and new fuel filters and then start cranking!
Best of luck with it your a determined man glad there is another person keeping these old girls going
Thanks. It does feel like your restoring a bit of history. The more I work on it the more determined I get to reach my goal.
I enjoy hearing the progress, but like you said got to have some pics(!)- especially when it comes to those four-legged-machine-killers (mice)! I’m confident that was a serious WHOA moment But the real benefit of the pictures will be when one of the HEF members spots something to save you time/effort/$…plus it’s a great way to show the next guy it CAN be done (or atleast the level of effort one must put into it!). To be truthful I’ve seen some awful mouse ****/$$it damage over the years…wondering if some Marvel Mystery Oil (or something like it) should be poured down to soak before moving pistons?? Any machine/vehicle left outside my barn (even one night) they get into it…it’s us vs them! Great work! Keep up the effort!!
I hear you. And I’m kicking myself not stopping to take a photo of that “WHOA” moment. Lesson learned! On that subject I did try awhile back putting a video on but it would only take a picture? Any advice? As for the pistons not a bad suggestion. I had brake fluid sitting in there a few weeks before it finally broke free. Pulled the drain plug on the pan and it all came out due to the fact I didn’t have any oil in the main at that time. My time is closing in before winter and want this dozer running for awhile before shutting down until spring. It’s all down to the pony motor running good now.
Great progress, keep at it.
Sorry HEF, I used slang for urine (which I believe does more equipment damage AND let’s the “next guy” find the way in). Great idea using brake fluid, I bet the rust didn’t like that!! Regarding posting videos; you’ll have to posted to YouTube (which we all KNOW Matt can help you with!!), then link to that video in your message. Then either “segment” your YouTube video to allow folks to find certain sections; and/or call out the minute(s) you want folks to view/comment on. After cutting the padlock off, I too found a “colony” living in my storage area…but under all that “crap” I found the original tool kit.
Yeah isn’t that crazy. Looks very familiar, so does the shop vac I see barley to the left. I have removed that the clutch dry bay and under the radiator etc. At least you had a gift under all that stuff
At least you don't have to worry about them getting into the wiring!
It’s nice to work on something without wires for once yes!
Have the carb at home on the bench with new kit. It actually snowed today here in Minnesota My time is getting short for reaching my goal.
Update, and any ideas? Well I have the carb reinstalled since rebuilding it. I still don't have enough rpm's supposedly to keep the main turning. Adjustments don't seem to change anything.It will do a couple of revolutions and die. The carb seems to be better but still have to play with the choke and throttle to keep it going. It also seems to get worse just a tad as the pony motor gets hotter over time. I have the right#2 cylinder running hot/lean and the #1 cylinder running rich it appears. Gas tank is clean, I have spark on both. The #2 cylinder has always felt hotter to the touch since the beginning. I'm pretty confident the carb. was good and clean when it went on. Wondering if I should swap the plug wires at the mag. And could I possibly have a governor issue. Maybe needs adjusting and cleaning? Its a simple two cylinder single carb standing in my way now for getting this thing going Oh yeah, my push button start switch on my old 6v starter pretty much disintegrated. Napa had a new one, I will need to get it installed on my next trip. I have not even checked yet, but has anyone found a replacement starter in a 12volt for these old Cats? Jeff
A rebuilder can make a 12V if you don't get a part number.
Hi Yrens, Stick with that pony motor (for now), you’re gonna get it… I’ve only fooled with one pony motor (on old grader) and it is quite a juggling act, so I appreciate the frustration!! It’s an awkward “dance”…like Steve Martins “rhythm” in the Jerk! items to verify in your pony: Compression test each cylinder to know where things are at. Set pony motor carb adjustments to their baseline setting (1 to 1.5 turns out?); then know when pony is under load (turning big engine) it will act different than no load. I’m not sure about governor, certainly could be holding you up?? Double check ur ignition/points are clean and opening correctly But biggest item to make sure is working is the decompression lever for the main engine I doubt you’ll be able to just engage the pony and let it all spin…I’d suspect you’ll spin the big motor one/two times (since it’s sat so long), then disengage pony (to keep from stalling), then go again, etc…eventually big motor will start to get oil pressure, heat, fuel flow, and hopefully more revolutions per pony engagement…THEN when you think your in position, close the decompression lever, build more heat, then introduce fuel and hope she starts. If you haven’t watched some of Squatsh’s stuff…highly recommend it!
If only one cylinder is getting hot the other has low compression. or ??
Thanks for the encouragement. I have done most of what you have suggested except checking the points. Carb adjustments are set, but when I tweek them I don't notice a diff.? The main jet(long needle) has a very small hole on the end ? Looks to be too small. Its not plugged but its smaller then any other jet on the carb. I saw a new one on ebay and the picture of it looks to have a bigger opening? Go figure. The compression was about 65 on the rich cylinder #1 and 72 on the lean side #2 so seems to be okay. I believe the decompression lever works I have had the valve cover off and looks to function like it supposed to. And I have been trying to engage and disengage like you said. Sometimes I get lucky and it wont die. The original spring on the governor was not on the pony motor originally, so I put the original spring on so it could need a adjustment since the one on there was incorrect. Counter weights could be sticky??
65 and 72. I believe that should be fine. I had the head off the #1 since it had some sludge and water in it back when I first was evaluating the dozer. The cylinder was surprisingly in good condition after I cleaned it out. There was no rain cap on the pony exhaust.
Did you pull the plugs after running and inspect? That usually gives a decent clue on what's going on. How old are the plug wires?
Yes new plugs and solid core wires. Picture is below. The left cylinder tends to get more fuel then needed and the right seems lean and hot. Single carb you think it would be less trouble but not so on these.
The compression difference between the two is not too far outta bounds (especially for where you are in the project)…overall I suspect they are both low (Shooting from the hip, I’d think new should be about 90-100). You might have some carbon in the head/valves playing games with you (but does sound like you’ve investigated that); I’ve had very good luck with SeaFoam cleaning carbs/engines as they run (and sit). Which just a reminder, getting heat/temperature into an engine is a good thing, obviously too hot is bad, but I bet you’ll find with each run that pony motor will get better and better (rings might unstick too). Make sure it's good and "warmed-up" before putting it to work on the main engine... I might have missed it, but did you verify the points are clean and adjusted? Ignition and carb issues can act a lot alike
I have not checked the points. I plan on that next trip. Squatch253 on YouTube had a new rebuild and his compression was approximately 75psi if my mind is correct? So I felt pretty good with mine at that point. I want to double check the governor also. Could possibly holding back the rpm’s just maybe? Also recheck the compression both cold and hot just for piece of mind. I have added some SeaFoam once, and will do it again. I only had the head off on #1 since #2 looked normal from the plug hole. So I have thought maybe pulling it off just for precaution cause you never know. The lower cooling jackets on #1 were plugged good with rust scale etc. I’m sure it’s the same on #2 I appreciate all advice as I have gone over and over what to do and check next week.
I have 50 years experience with these ponys. I recently chased carb problems for a long while and found it to be a restricted air intake (pony air cleaner).
Crazy. It’s funny you say that. The upper holes of the air cleaner housing were plugged pretty good. I cleaned it all out when I rebuilt the carb. Hopefully I will figure it out in a couple of days. Thanks for sharing. I’m taking it all in.
We are pulling for you. When you got it free without going medieval on it I had new hope.
I hear you thanks. Coworkers at work are asking every time I go up, Well??? I can't even imagine what it could feel like once this beast starts. I know the feeling of being deflated. I don't like it. I wanted to add in regards to the pony motor, I do have a oil leak at the main seal behind the crank starter pulley. Is there a new bearing seal available for that? Is there also a separate parts catalog for the pony motor?
It's the same parts catalog as the one for the entire tractor. Looks like 1B2245 is the seal part number, and it's easy to find. Only run across a couple seals that were CAT specific and nearly impossible to find.
Yes that’s the one! Got one coming Thanks much. Will be heading up to the machine tomorrow. Maybe it will be the day. Awesome video your last one you posted. It’s looking darn nice. I’m patiently waiting for your first start Good luck, you do a great job showing your progress.
If that crank seal on the pup engine is leaking, then the bearing is likely loose. It will also probably have a lot of endplay
That’s interesting, I did check that and it didn’t seem to have that side play that you need to watch out for. So maybe I’m lucky in that sense? So for my update today is that I went up to the site to hopefully get somewhere after double checking a few things. My compression is 70psi on both cylinders. The start run decompression lever looks to functional. Governor seems to be working as required linkage etc. checked the mag, points and gap was good, lightly cleaned the points but nothing physically defective except the cap needs to be replaced due to some eroded damage that happened long ago at some point. However today wasn’t a good day, or maybe it was okay depending on how you look at it. I never even got the pony motor going today due to no spark It apparently decided to take a crap. It may be related to some of the issues I have been having. While I was standing in front of this machine today I’m embarrassed to admit that Im getting my but kicked by a simple two cylinder single carb motor! I’m guessing the next step will be a mag kit with a new cap and condenser. Sound like a plan? Jeff
Magnetos need to be grounded to shut off. Your shut-off wire wasn’t bare and touching anything metal was it?
Nope all good there. The wire was broken from day one. I did remove it all together. Hoping the kit with new cap condenser points will solve the issue unless the coil went bad?
Fantastic update Great news today. With the pony motor being the weak link prior to today, I’m happy to say it appears to be running better then ever with a new cap, condenser. But it wasn’t fixed until I installed the new points that did the trick. All this time it acted like a fuel/air issue prior to no spark. But it turns out to be the ignition that must have slowly going that created the head scratcher until finally it went.So I immediately started with engaging the starting pinion and worked on getting air out of the fuel system. I got close with some black smoke but no cigar just yetI’ll try and post a clip, but I have a big question?? I had one fuel line from the injection pump to injector that was leaking at the nut. Turns out it appears to be missing a spacer which looks to be part of the fuel line. Any ideas on how to get this? Picture shows one end good the other missing. Jeff
I may need help on the YouTube clip. I pushed the film icon on top and embedded the link however I don’t see it posted?
Lol, I just had that same exact issue with that little ring missing on my injection pump and the line leaking. Fortunately I found one off a spare line that broke into 3 pieces, but I stuck it around the line with some grease and it sealed up. If I had to make up a new one, I'd look at the hardware store or at McMaster for a spacer where the inside diameter matches and cut it in half to get it on the line. Others here might have a better idea though. Sounds like you are close!
Pony motor sounds great…congrats on getting past that hurdle…extra credit for pics AND video!! if your pulling fuel from original tank and lines, have a couple fuel filters since you’ll likely catch a ton of crap in the first one/two filters. Not sure how to handle that line fitting…but I think you have the problem identified (air leak). Keep digging man, you’re going get it!!
funny! Yea I was even wondering if I could put a few rubber o rings around it and that might seal it.
Thank you. It was a huge day for sure. There is a aftermarket inline fuel filter which I just replaced prior. I will definitely keep my eye on it.
O-rings wont work, it needs to be something solid to help that nut clamp down on the flare fitting. If it's leaking there, then the injector won't be putting much fuel into the cylinder. Assuming you hit the 3 air bleeding spots in the correct order (lower tower, upper tower, injection pump nuts), you shouldn't even really have to bleed the lines to the valves, but its a good way to check that fuel is getting all the way up there. Don't be afraid to give it a tickle of starting fluid once you get all the injection leaks sorted...
I hear you. Take a look at the pictures. I used a grommet which is pretty solid and a tad thicker then the original spacer. I’m confident that it should give enough fill to push down good and seal tight
Although you have been there before me so I’ll trust your opinion. Jeff
I doubt that will work. It needs to be metal. The pressure in that line is probably over 1000 PSI. Something like a bushing cut down and split in half would work.
Well I was planning a backup plan of making a bushing like you said. Also I have a guy just south of me approximately 40 min drive who has a parts machine and had the line. He’s a bit hard to get a hold of to swing down and get what I need.
I hear a happy pony motor and see some black smoke, man you are close !
I don't know if anyone has suggested this yet, but you really need a Parts Manual - or at least access to one. I don't know if they are still available from Cat but with a Serial Number I can certainly have a look. I did have a poke around and found The other option is to register on the ACMOC web site - www.acmoc.org/ - and look in their library of old manuals. you can have access to them once you pay the subscription.
You are correct. I have been planning on doing one or the other. Meaning the ACMOC or find a manual. What do you think? My serial number is 7U3349
This is it - covers all 7U machines from first built up to 27569. I don't know how the prices compare to subscribing to ACMOC and using their resources. I don't even know if they have a Parts Manual for that Serial Number range in their library, and unfortunately no idea how to find out.
I believe they do. And it’s $40.00 per year. So I guess it’s worth a try.
I’ll look at both options today and figure it out.
I'm an ACMOC member. The scan quality for the 7U and 6U parts manuals isn't the best. It's really something that's nice to have a physical copy of, and the eBay reprints are decent quality, very easy to read all the numbers, and cheap. The service and operators manuals are good quality at ACMOC, those are worth the price of admission. You can also get the service manual for the D315 engine there too, which you will need. There is nothing engine related in the 7U tractor service manual.
Okay I’ll probably get a hard copy then. I have the other two (service/overhaul) which were a must for sure. Thanks.
That doesn't surprise me. Back in the day the service & parts manuals for the engine were generally separate from the machine.
I meant to say I have the service and ops manuals.
That was usually because the same basic engine was used in multiple applications
Well I did get a parts manual coming. It was long needed.
Wow I just saw your recent Video on the first start. Incredible and excellent jobI saw the fuel line leak which you and I both had. Too funny. I’ll hopefully have my first successful start next Wednesday. It will be most likely be my last trip until May. It’s going to be a long winter. I’m going to tarp it up and mothball it the best I can. If all goes well have it hopefully moving in June.
Good luck! Looked like you were pretty close to get it running in that video you posted. Gonna be a long wait to June
Yes it will be, but not much choice due to where I’m located and where it’s located. The winters here are a bit insane at times. Looks like I’ll be working in the rain my last day if the weather man/woman is correct. One thing that perplexed me just a bit was how fast you selected the compression lever and how quickly it started. With the pony motor you let it spin check oil and fuel pressures then engage then disengage if need be and so on. But with direct start it seems to act like different animal? Getting back to the video I posted, I apologize for the quality etc. I’m definitely not a pro at that. Maybe I can get a bit better on the next one.
It builds oil and fuel pressure after about 2-3 seconds of cranking. After the first time you crank it, waiting for oil pressure to build isn't really as big of a concern since the engine has been pre-lubed pretty well (in my opinion). Obviously if the engine has been sitting for awhile, you might want to crank it over for longer so that the oil can get all the way through the engine and up into the valves, but I had been cranking it a bunch the night before while priming it. Also (in my opinion) if you are using ether, it's best to spray it in early on and get compression enabled to prevent a situation where you have a lot of diesel + ether in the cylinder.
Thanks I will keep that in mind this Wednesday. I’m still learning about Diesel engines. My mind tells me you need to generate heat with glow plugs or a pony motor. Direct start no glow plugs and it starts just fine without the heat process???
Precombustion(indirect injection) diesel engines need either pup engine exhaust heat through the intake manifold or glow plugs or other starting aid. It doesn’t matter if it has a pup engine or electric starter or if the ambient temp is warm. A direct injection diesel engine usually does not need starting aids unless the ambient temperature is low. On those engines they may retard the injection timing or have an excess fuel position in the injection pump
Per the CAT manual for this engine (D315), no starting aids are needed when the ambient temperature is 50F or above. I will put it to the test on mine once I get my buggy electrics sorted. It is almost always around 50F in my shop. That being said, having an intake heater will be a much better option than hoping the battery is perfectly charged.
Okay interesting. Well it’s going to be a bit below that early Wednesday for me but I have the fuel line ready to go and feeling like it should start. It would be the perfect ending for my goal and the season. I wanted to ask, did you leave that one floor panel original for a reason on your freshly painted CAT?
Take some starting fluid. An engine sitting that long will be tough to start without it in my opinion. Just a wiff will probably do it. Don't use it while using glow plugs!!
Noted. I will do that
SWEEEEEEEET !!!!!!!!! Well it finally happened gang! After 18 trips with a total of 4 hours drive time each, with tools generator etc. I reached my goal on my last trip for the season. I got the old beast started. I almost thought it was not going to start and I would head back home with my tail between my legs. Finally after approx. 45 minutes of continuous engage and disengage of start compression she finally blew and started. The feeling was incredible. I have some video to post. (3) clips actually.My GoPro Sd card was full right when it started But I got a clip right after. The pony motor for some reason gave me a bit of trouble again at first. It would fill up with fuel and flood out. It would just pour out of the head drains. Not sure why that happened. Maybe a stuck float? oil checked good aside from the massive leak from the crank seal. But once I got it going it did its job!
There's a reason they say cats have nine lives! You get an A+ for perseverance!
Thanks I’ll take it. I’m thinking a C- for my videos! Not sure why they are not available? They were for a short time. Plus for some reason I can’t get the third one posted.
I just see them now on the desktop? I have one more short one with it running smooth. I will keep trying.
so here is my clip I can't embed?? any ideas? https://youtube.com/shorts/45na886l25c
I get this message "The specified URL cannot be embedded as media."
Wow, sounds good enough to make a person think it was running strong just yesterday, Have you tried to move it or anything under it's own power yet?
So no I haven’t. It currently is stuck in neutral. The shift boot was in rough condition and there is light surface rust on a couple of the gears. Thought maybe it could be a issue with the safety lock but Matt was thinking more of just the forks stuck. I feel that with plenty of WD 40 and light tapping I think it will break loose.
Congrats! Sounds pretty good! Go to studio.youtube.com, click on content, click on the video, scroll all the way down, click on "show more", scroll down to this section: Also make sure you made the video public and not unlisted
Well that’s helpful. Thanks again I will give that a try for future clips. I was very surprised at just how good it sounded. It did take some time before it went. And it goes back to how quickly yours started. I don’t see how I would have gotten it going without the pony? I went through a tank of gas and then some.
Your engine was left sitting with the intake open. I would imagine there was a fair amount of rust around your valves that was probably causing them not to seal very well. Spinning the engine over while heated by the pony for a long time probably cleaned them up enough to get good compression. Also, I cleaned out my entire fuel/injection system of all dirt and old diesel. Don't remember you mentioning if you drained the fuel tower before putting new fuel in, but that thing holds like at least a gallon of (in your case) 12 year old diesel.
Yeah you went through everything. I’m still impressed. Mine was completely dry. The line was cut by the left floorboard where I believe some sort of a shutoff valve could have been? I’m guessing because about 4 inches or so was missing. I spliced in a new 1/2 shutoff with some rubber fuel line and clamps. Tower was dry probably due to the leak I found from a bad lower gasket. Only old fuel I found was in the after market inline fuel filter when I changed it. I cleaned the injectors and blew the lines out. I would agree like you said though with the valves. I wish I would have taken that picture of my intake valves and manifold. That was quite the nest.