Hello dear I have this dozer CAT year: 1986, model D4H, serial: 08PB00451, série II We have recently bought this dozer, upon couple hours I noticed the overheating in the transsmision, we have decided to replace the next parts, 3T8316 planetary transmission sn 1CE514-1675 : 6T8687 DISC FRICTION (5) 6Y7965 DISC FRICTION (17) 9P6799 PISTON CLUTCH (1) 3P7019 SEAL METAL (1) 9P7101 PLATE CLUTCH (4) valve selector and pressure control 9P3041 spring inner (1) 7G4842 spring outter (1) Control Valve Transmision Hydraulic 8P8984:. 3D2824 Seal o-ring (1) 6Y2349 Connector Special (1) 8M1322 Spring (1) 9S8008 plug o-ring (1) 3D2824 Seal o-ring (1) So after done the service and those parte replaced, we have placed in service and after 30 hours, again the temperature to continue overheating, And I went to check the oil filter and this was suctioned look like this did any vacum also, I already replaced. So now I am replacing the pump as well..
Did you run any pressures convertor in and out did you check the cooler sounds like you replaced a lot of parts without knowing what was going on in there
Dave Hello, We have stripped down the transmission after be replaced the wheel impeller, and wheel turbine, and there are some pieces were replaced because looked like damaged, So now we have the same problem with the temperature after 4 hours working, The pump was replaced and now the strong or power was lose the
See the oil filter picture was suctioned, so we have replaced the pump and one filter but the strong/power gone down....
I have to agree with Dave Neubert about checking pressures before just pulling the transmission out for overhaul. The older gentleman I started working with years ago always pulled the coolers and replaced them when installing a rebuilt transmission. I've done them and not replaced the coolers but always flushed and pressure tested them at a minimum. Anything that looked like a problem and they got replaced.
With that amount of trash in the strainer I would replace the cooler did you clean out the frame where the trans goes that is a lot of junk or is this the first time you cleaned the strainer
check the main P1 P2 convertor in and out and let us know what you have
Is that a genuine Cat filter.? Did you cut it open to look for particles inside it.? I agree with other posters above. You are replacing parts before doing a full diagnosis (e.g. p1, P2, converter pressures, etc.) The diagnosis should be pointing you in the correct direction but you do not appear to have done any yet. You will continue to replace parts until finally you will replace something that fixes the problem. That is very expensive for you and not how the process works.
Here is the pressure chart for the D4H II powertrain.
Hello Dave, and Nigel thanks by your response. The strainer was new installed CTP brands, when the parts were installed, but the cooler was not flushed or replaced. Please see the picture a lot trash in the strainer... Well I will go to replace the oil, strainer and flush the cooler, and run the pressure test.
If you would like a copy of the procedure for testing the pressures just ask.
Yes, Nige I would appreciate the copy procedure to run the Pressure test, Thanks a lot will be highly appreciated.. I not sure if you can send it from here or from your email here the mine [email protected] Now we are pulling down the cooler will be flushed and the tube as well..before to install the new strainer.
No problem. Attached is a file in Adobe pdf format. If you have access to a PC or laptop it will download fine for you. Also in the Test & Adjust are the details of adjusting the transmission control linkages. It would be a good idea for you to inspect them for wear and to check the adjustment, just to be sure.
Thanks a lot Nige, I will go to check the procedure...
Dear Nigel and Dave see the cooler's picture, I will go run some pressure test and flushed.
The outside looks pretty grim. I wonder what the inside is like.?
Its what is on the inside that you cant see that may be a problem did you check inlet and out wit a heat gun to see if it is cooling properly
Looks like there's a fair amount of dirt or bent fins on that cooler package. First thing I do for any overheat condition is make sure the cooler is clean, all shrounds are in place and that the fan is in good condition. Its the cheapest/easiest place to start.
Hello Guys. I am back again, I have more time to make more test, the cooler was cleaned and flushed and installed again. So I was doing the test in the A port Valve priority, so the pressure with the oil cold, were low Idle 390psi High idle 442psi. But after 45 minutes working the pressure were down Like 160psi and Hi 330psi. Any advice from you..? Thanks..!!
First question. What type of oil are you using in the transmission and what viscosity is it.?
The oil is new Nige we made services recently, but we are using according the CAT specifications, I do not have the name in my hands now, even was one oil with good and high viscosity,
Nigel Cat to-4/ to-2, , the oil was Alcat 50, because we have high weather temperatures here.
The power train oil also feeds the steering clutches and brakes. You seem to have replaced/overhauled most of the parts in the power train (converter, transmission, & pump) so it probably might pay you to turn your attention to the steering system. Somewhere there was a thread where a poster had blocked off the oil feed to the steering clutches/brakes in order to test for leaks in the system. Let me see if I can find it.
Nigel thanks by you reply Yes I know some body has blocked the inlet of the steering but at the end he found the solution replacing the resonators so I have replaced it also.
Okay, so you are aware of possible issues in the steering. However what I was suggesting is to blank the oil flow to the steering system completely so that you can make a test to determine whether the power train or the steering is the cause of the pressure loss that you are measuring. It may be that you have leakage in the steering clutch pistons Did you actually blank off the steering system.? This requires the manufacture of a plate. See this thread, page 2. HeavyEquipmentForums
One question how is the procedure to check the oil level with the engine run and the temperature in operation normal? Or all in stop and oil cold.?
Can I check the steering leak with air test putting down the body valve.?
If you have oil visible to somewhere around the FULL mark on the dipstick when the engine is stopped and the oil is cold then it is safe to start. To set the level correct, the dipstick should be checked with all systems at normal operating temperature, engine idling, & transmission in neutral. Maintain the oil between the ADD and FULL marks. I do not think it will necessarily prove anything, because checking with air at maybe 100psi when the machine is cold is not going to show a leak that only becomes apparent when the machine is warm and from an oil supply that is capable of giving 400+psi. The accepted way of eliminating the steering system is to install a blanking plate.
Only thing that I don't have checked is the body valve, could be some dirty inside of the valve making the lost pressure in the power train.? Because it work fine cold but after 45 minutes, does not engage, or spinning. Today I have checked the pressure again Li 400psi and Hi 420psi
So, The oil level is in the blue small mark in normal operation and engine idling, so I could say that need at less 40 Lts more and less
I can see the ADD mark on the dipstick but not the FULL mark. Does the long blue line correspond to the FULL mark.?
Nige thanks again by your reply Not the long blue mark was the old level before to be filled with 20 liters, so it was after filled until the short blue mark, I suppose it need goes until the mark ADD...am I correct.?
Can you take a photo that shows both the ADD and the FULL marks on the dipstick.?
And how many gallons use the power train whole,?? I have placed 30 gallons, so it look like in the dipstick need more, and there is not leaking to the ground..
Yes I can, Nige...!!
And how many gallons use the power train whole,?? I have placed 30 gallons, so it look like in the dipstick need more, and there is not leaking to the ground..
blue mark: oil level currently on operation normal temp. Red mark: ADD line mark on dipstick. Black marck: FULL line mark on dispstick.
That makes no sense. The Full mark should be something like 2-3" ABOVE the Add mark, not below it like you show in your photo. Unfortunately the letter markings are hard to read on the photo. Is there another mark somewhere further up the stick.? The approximate system capacity is 28 US gallons, but even the manual says that this is only a guideline and that you should always work to the dipstick to set the level. Either way the oil level is above the add mark so everything should work.
I am still worried that the loss of pressure you are seeing could be in the steering and nothing to do with the transmission or converter. See the link in post #25 for more details. Until the tests have been made and you eliminate the steering as a possible cause for the pressure loss I don't see how you can move forward with the diagnosis.
Thanks Nigel by your reply. The oil mark is below the ADD mark, so I will go to complete to the FILL mark and check what happen with the power train.
Hello Nigel see the picture maybe a little more clear..
That is weird. Is there a Part Number stamped on it anywhere.? Hopefully someone else may comment.
They used to have two sets of level marks. One side was with engine running oil warm and the other side was engine stopped oil cold. Sometime in the nineties they stopped doing that on many if not most machines and only had the cold markings.
For a transmission where the level is supposed to be checked with the engine idling & warm wouldn't is make sense to have the markings for "Engine Idling: Oil Warm" if there was only going to be one set.? John, can you think of any reason why the Add mark should be above the Full mark.? That's what I can't get my head around.
The bottom of the stick is pointing up. Bob
The markings look a little suspect to me. It's like someone used an engraver to make those marks. I've been seeing the smaller machines with dipsticks that only have one marking and it was checked engine stopped, oil cold for awhile now.
That would explain it. Although from the orientation of the text it looks like the top of the stick should be at the top of the photo.
Agree!