Ok the title seems right we have a d9h its on a job and the relief valve for the radiator pops off its sat for 6mth thru the winter just dry enough now to work it where its located I seen this before I just let it do its thing and settle down, i only did it a couple times for me and i have put over 300 hrs on it I just did 37 hrs on it now i have a guy on it and he is telling me its spuing out antifreeze thru the relief i never have to add oil or coolant to this tractor however i did top off the radiator overfilled just before he got on it he is 500 miles from me i told him to see if bubbles are coming up and out he said it looks only like a little foam such as when you run you faucet in the sink I have a box of receipts on this tractor newer engine rebuild and new radiator make that a second new as 1st was damaged in land clearing stick stuck it. that was over 300 hrs ago. any suggestions oh and its not over heating and no oil in radiator or coolant in engine
My 9H's are all too far away to look so I'm guessing Does this have a reservoir? or just the radiator and cap? If there's no reservoir, then the top tank of the radiator is the expansion space and you can't fill it all the way to the top, typically you want the level an inch down from the bottom of the neck.
yea i will have a look tomorrow headed down to see it it has no reservoir
Those machine have a great big radiator cap and not a small one like a car. There is a relief valve right on top of the radiator with a little hole out the side. You can take it apart and replace the parts inside. A lot of time they are just old and never had any attention.
What is engine temperature running at
I fired it up and took it for a short test run, I have a heat gun and have shot it all around and it was 148 to 190 but mostly below that's shooting all the radiator, all the different temps are from top to bottom and the head - thermostat housing and the sending unit areas The lower engine block was 210 maybe a 214 Here is what the gauge was reading its just a color gauge green upper green upper yellow then red I ran it for 45 minutes and it was reading close to the yellow we do blow the radiator out with a air compressor I was not running it real hard never have to as its just cutting trees with a v/sheer blade I parked it with it running and broke the radiator cap loose slowly as it had pressure and it sprayed out with suds-foam then I had the helper open the throttle it all lowered and was flowing but I was not getting big type pop up bubbles just high flow and foam . Yesterday I talked to a old mech but he does not go out and turn wrenches any more on the job but he knows these old 9's a bit he told me to go and warm it up with the cap off and when it foams put some of that foam on a sheet of paper to ck for oil that takes a while, I did no sign of oil he said it could be a number of things from the oil cooler around injectors heads and head gasket ect. I hate to tear it all down chasing a unknown yesterday while I did this I filled it just a little bit below the bottom of the neck with added water cranked it up for a good 1/2 hr low and high idle and got the thermo to open the temp was up in the mid green I unscrewed the cap and it had some pressure pushed some out not much and there was no foam yet and no sign of bubbles or air popping up however the coolant has risen to the top of the neck I shut it off as there was no more I could do it keep rising very very slow so maybe it was expanding I know thing get hotter when you turn them off. oh yea I opened up the crank fill and there is no sign of milky looking oil at all in or around the cap the engine does not smoke at all
The hottest point on your system will be at the thermostat housing and the inlet at the top of your radiator. You need to compare your heat gun reading with your dash gauge to have an accurate comparison. Your temp should drop 30 - 35 degrees from the top of the radiator to the inlet of the water pump on average.
I've never seen a dozer drop that much in temperature. Usually was lucky to get twelve or fifteen degrees between thermostat housing and radiator outlet.
pull the cap off and warm it up and run it at 1/2 throttle and smell the radiator and see if it smells like exhaust, my d5h started running warm had some small bubbles in the radiator and it looked like it had steam coming out of it but it had a blue look to it and I smelled it and it was exhaust , had tiny crack in the head gasket , new gasket and the heating problem was fixed
John's right. The rule of thumb for a conventional radiator like this one is around 15 degrees temperature difference between the top tank and the bottom tank if everything is in good working order.
There is a chance it’s pressurizing from a compression leak but I would bet if you quit overfilling or adding coolant it will eventually find its happy place and go back to just releasing air out of the relief valve. From this point the coolant level will stop going down and as long as it’s not heating it will be fine.
I was thinking along the same lines. If filled right to the top there is no place to go but out the overflow.
Ok but where could the suds be coming from ? I don't see constant uprising bubbles with it warmed up and idling with the cap off maybe i should flush it with a garden hose till I see no antifreeze then run it hard and recheck to see if I see for foamy crap after I top it off with water and power wash the radiator, as I know all that coolant ran down and the fan most likely blew it thru the radiator and its really dusty out there. probably get a new thermostat also what should the rpms be on this d9h high idle 1300?
You could try this
Gonna need something like strips of an old inner tube to adapt it to that big fill hole or take the pressure relief apart and check it there with new gaskets to put it back together
A funnel with the “tube” cut off should work
I don’t think you’ll see rising bubbles through the cap. Any air coming from the engine will come through the top rad hose.
I guess that's why they want you to fill it up to the top of the neck as it would be the only place air could escape the cap is off to the side and the top hose is about in the middle right where the relief is I think I will try the jug of that exhaust leak fluid as pictured above
According to the D9H O&M Manual the correct coolant level with the engine cold should be within 1/2" of the bottom of the fill tube (arrowed) that is located below the radiator cap.
I ordered new thermostats today they said it took 2 of them I don't know if there is anything wrong with the old ones, but I would like to ask on here do they come in different temp settings never thought to ask the cat man. This d9 was originally from Duluth Minn. area could it have higher thermostats Feel bad for asking but where does the second one go the one the left - in jector pump side is easy I have only one d9 parts book it does not cover the engine. In general just how hot would the engine have to get to blow a gasket or crack a head I'm using 50 / 50 coolant mix I'm also at a elevation of around 1800 ft above sea level Some of you asked what the temp was and I gave a few answers from my Temp gun I found this in my d8k book and the last time I was running the d9 the needle got close to the beginning of yellow or the top bar basically strait up and down the other bars are green they all end to the red
That photo brings back memories. On the old D9G models there used to be a pressure gauge as well as a temperature gauge on the dash. As the pressure came up in the radiator the pressure gauge would move up in each level of pressure. As I recall the pressure gauge colors corresponded with the colors on the temp gauge telling which scale to read. Higher pressure meant that it would take higher temperatures to make the coolant boil. I never had a D9H but did have plenty of D8Ks and they didn't have that pressure gauge anymore. In your case it would have been nice if the gauge were there. You could always tell if you have compression getting into the coolant because the pressure gauge would be pegged.
I'm going to say they go both in the same housing, one above the other, at least that's how it looks in the parts diagram. Did they also sell you the gaskets needed to replace them along with the seals for the housing? I'd also replace the hoses that you will be removing to remove the housing, better to do it all at once and not waste the new anti-freeze you are putting in! Attached are the directions on changing the water temperature regulators as Cat calls them: Note this is for a 90V machine as I don't recall you mentioning the actual serial number, if you did I missed it!
I have a nice old d8k 1990 certified we have had it since 1994-5 I have only put a maybe a few thousand hrs on it your are right no pressure gauge in the d8k, my 1st dozer d7f had and still has one This d9 90v4059 has one in the dash its broke the glass is cracked ect and I don't know where to install the end of the line On this new pressure gauge I bought I looked all over around the top tank and can't seem to find a tap where it goes
Thanks I was totally wrong, big help I found similar set up in the d8k book The d8k regulators were available in 180 185 and 197 temps maybe that d9 has 197's
John if this gauge was installed and it never pegged all the way out but moved equally with the temp gauge would that indicated the system should be fine and what would your thoughts be on what the temp would be according to the factory gauge the if the temp gauge is operating strait up and down . Maybe if that radiator gets a good power washing it might not get that high on the gauge maybe this tractor has a 197 thermostats in it how hot would if have to be to really crack a head or head gasket
I've had a lot of sleep lost over those stock gauges installed on the old Cats. I like that they were manual but still had plenty of times when operators started getting antsy and whine that the gauge is riding higher today that it did yesterday. There must be something wrong, I can't run the machine like that and so on and so on. Sometimes I just wanted to throw those gauges away and put an idiot light in. The other issue was the level in the radiator. One guy is putting water in everyday and not saying anything. When I finally caught him I asked him if he could see coolant. He says ya but it wasn't where it should be. My next question was how does he know where it should be. He didn't answer so I told him if he could see fluid above the flat plate at the bottom of the neck to leave it alone. After that the problem wen't away. Except that I had to drain and flush the system because he was putting creek water in all the time. Keep the outside clean of debris, the fins on the back of the radiator straight and educate the operators of when something is an actual problem and it will go a long way towards a good nights sleep.
Ok I said I was going to do the dye leak test that might be complicated with that big water neck going to power wash it all real well flush the system change the thermostats and do what john mentioned
Anything in the red for that pressure is cause to stop working until it cools (by the book answer). It's not the temperature of the coolant that matters, it's the temperature of the iron, and that is dependent on LIQUID coolant, if the temp is to high for the pressure (and glycol concentration) then it will start to boil, and that boiling will allow an area to get too hot.
Shooting the engine block with a heat gun im getting 215 degrees f im not back at the tractor on another job but we change the regulators and the operator said it still running hot and push out coolant he could have over filled it. no have not power washed the radiator yet will the engine oil cooler increase the radiator temp with out putting oil in the cooling system my last resort is pulling the heads which im seeking all other options first and I still have not been able to find any answers on if they make different optional temperature regulators for d9h
Why are you even considering pulling cylinder heads when you haven’t even pressure-washed the radiator yet..? Instead of playing what-ifs why not do the simple stuff first..?
Agree! The first step after checking coolant level and that belts are in good condition and adjusted correctly should be to clean radiator on outside. Not saying it never happens but I'm having a hard time recalling more than one or two times in my 40+ years working on and around heavy equipment where temperature regulator were the cause of over heating. Way more times has the problem been plugged air side of core and second would be loose/worn belts. I really don't want to mention some other causes as I would be worried they would be addressed before the cleaning! I have seen many radiators that looked like some one took a trowel of mud and coated the backside of the core so thick that you could not see the fins. If you do decide to wash it don't even think of doing it without removing guards both in front and in back of the radiator. Might also be worth removing hood and fan to allow good access. And one more "no cost" item to check. I'm guessing this tractor has a reversible fan. Did anyone mess with it and try reversing the blades and not get them all blowing in the same direction? One blade set wrong is more than enough to cause cooling problems.
Why well im stuck here in Illinois working I told the f --khead to pressure wash it he changed the thermos and said its still building pressure I have been trying to get a mechanic there but its either to hot or I get its raining its cheaper for me to hire lowboy and say f that job bring it home. im not clearing 60 acres just to pay the caterpillar dealership to fix it we are way off the grid no one close around no water hate jobs like that. the guy I have been wanting to look at it has been out of town he just got back talked to him today coarse he is busy on another to do job but he knows these tractors he was in charge of a fleet of them in ohio coal mine Silver spade ring a bell lol. he said if they guy is constantly running in 2nd gear that would be heating the torque and the radiator especially if the radiator is plugged but he also mentioned that there is some donuts - o rings I guess in the heads could have gone bad
yes reversible fan I don't think anyone has messed with it shroud is on it its all coming off as the air conditioning belt broke because the guy let a stick get it I should have never let any one else run it, (hard to be on multiple jobs) Sure enough the minute you do, it don't belong to them and they tear the living **** out em especially in trees you have to be really careful I always made sure to keep that left engine bay safe as much as possible its got new ac/ and all your injection stuff ect he broke #5 injector line going to fast trying to show how much he could get done when it breaks you don't work. my guy has said he has blown out the radiator real good with 160 psi air compresser does anyone know what the lowest temp regulator available would be for d9 my d8k has 3 different ones available according to my book
I can understand the problems with letting some other operator run a machine that they don't have a nickle invested in, saw that a lot working at the quarry. Just wish people could understand that once a machine is broke the boss sure don't need an operator anymore! I may be wrong, and hope that Nige or someone else will correct me, but assuming the new regulators were installed along with new seals and they are working as designed, I don't really think going a few degrees one way or another on the regulators is going to do much if you are in fact running as high as 215º. Did who ever put in the new regulators happen to look at them? Every one I have seen always had the ratings stamped right on them. As for using just air pressure, if the dozer has been run in rain or wet area I'm not sure the caked on dust will blow away easy. At least the dirt around the quarry was never that easy to get off!
Found a troubleshooting chart on SIS for too hot of coolant, this was not specifically aimed at the D9H but should still be a good one to go by. As you can see even Cat thinks restriction of flow both water and air are top priorities. As for "Combustion Gases in Coolant" most engines I saw that had that problem it was pretty easy to diagnose. Fill radiator right to the top so there is no place for the gasses to vent and then start and run engine. If there are combustion gasses in coolant almost every time the coolant will raise up and out of the neck pretty fast and keep coming.
starting from a cold engine fill it up in the neck with coolant - water fire it up with cap off ? how fast should I be running engine with the cap off 1/2 or wo throttle last time I tried this i was a bit shy from the bottom of the neck however i ran it sitting there high idle to get it up in the green i removed the cap but had no foam or bubbles the coolant at low idle did rise after it was warm and very very slowly keep rising even after i shut it off, open up the throttle down goes the coolant level
I kind of remember there being about twenty gallons of coolant on those engines. Fill it to the top and it will pop out the relief every time. Clean the outlet hole on the relief and run it for a day. If it is exhaust gas you will see black around the hole. On the temp of the regulators, if the coolant is running at 215, the regulators are all the way open no matter what their set temp is. The only places you should be checking with the infrared is the outlet of the thermostat housing and the inlet of the water pump. You can get all kinds of crazy temps on the heads and around the exhaust side of the block.
Ok thx to all of you for your help, sorry for being grumpy, I just keep getting the broken record over and over from that small job. I will get back and give you all my report as soon as possible.
It's tough when all the information you are getting could be said with a telegram when what you need is to be on site doing the actual work and knowing that what was done before was done correctly. I don't envy what you are going through. These types of problems are bad enough.
Your correct john I have one more question this engine was rebuilt and had 600 hrs on it when I purchased the tractor new crank pistons injectors valves ect I got the paperwork with all the receipts from 2012 I have put only 400 hrs on it so now it s got app. 1000 hrs my question is if the work was done correctly could one of the liners have dropped so soon would I have some contamination in one or the others compartments I just had a message from that mechanic he mentioned the liner drop? and something about a shim- can you guys explain this process new to me I used to have couple d8h pull tractor for scrapers they were good machine and fun to run. but the one I really liked dropped a liner something showed up as a sign back then I had mechanics from the place I do business with handle my problems, its was a big dirt job, well they told me the engine had to be removed liner had dropped some machine work needed done I asked how much it was going to run close to 30,000 we reinstalled the heads new gaskets and sold the tractor both of them I wanted nothing to do with non spacer plate engines lesson 1. well I bought this d9h because I got all the history on it and it was in really nice shape keep up however not thinking to ask like a dummy if it was a spacer plated engine its not there are a lot of d9g's that have many hrs and are still going strong.
Follow up on the d9h been a while guy installed new thermostats and drained the antifreeze replaced with water for running test while I was away Well I ended up hiring a mechanic told him to ck it out its been sitting for a couple mths He did and found water low in the radiator could not see any he removed the engine oil plug here he found the water below the oil oil was not milky he removed the heads today water on top of 4 pistons having the heads checked out here is what he said about the head bolts they were loose not all but enough loose enough a 1/2" rachet would have easily cranked them out wonder why they came loose I hope that's the real answer to the problem this was a recent engine overhaul are you suppose to use Loctite ? What torque should have been used? maybe they had the torque wrench wrong I just hope the piston were not driving the heads I told him to check the liners slight rust on top of liners he said he will lightly hone clean them up also/waiting- getting oil sample back from cat
I just wondered if there is any update on this tractor?
I doubt the head bolts came loose. They were probably never torqued properly . No loctite is required.
Actually I believe the book calls for anti-seize and final torque of 300+/-10 Lb/ft. Not sure about others here but I don't think I could come close to that with a 1/2 inch wrench. Or is this one of the latter engines with the five bolts down one side #21-#25 in the torque chart that only get 75 lb/ft? Those I could do with a 1/2 inch wrench!
I've never used anything except new engine oil on head bolts. Did the D9 engines, D353 have bolts or studs. I seem to recall the last one I worked on had studs.
Engine oil here too.
I was only quoting what I was seeing on SIS. Appears the pre-spacer plate engine used studs and nuts the spacer plate engines used bolts: This is the counter bored block install: Below is Spacer plate head install:
https://hechingerreport.org/the-num...udents-could-fall-by-more-than-8-in-a-decade/ Always used gear oil, less drippy and stayed within the threads longer.
ok just waiting on mechanic to put it back heads are still in shop they said they were backed up the shop was closed for a bit vacation hopefully soon I will know something