Howdy fellas. In a general question as a perspective buyer, what are the pros and con of these series (C to G) of machines compared to each other? Only interested in the hydrostatic C's, not the ones with foot controls. For engines, I see the C has has a Cat 3045 while the G's run a 3046. How do these compare for power, reliability, fuel consumption? Thanks for your time.
Sorry i dont know much about Cs but i went from B to G. the G is a very good dozer. what ar you going to use it for?
Road construction (sub grade, road prep), driveways, farm work, vineyards. I'm still not sure on what size would be best, ( D3, D4, or D5) in order to get the most work and be the most versatile. They seem to be very similar in weight for instance in the G series. D3G 17,050lbs, D4G 18172lbs D5G 20,504 lbs in xl versions according to Cat. Although I've spend most of my time on a D5M and D6M I think they might be overkill for laying in crush. Shopguy, what size do you have and what are its applications?
D4G i like it because it is (middle of the road) and does it all very well'Grading, spreadinng, light clearing,yard work ect.Easy to haul to' You said a 5 was over so that leaves two. D3 is great for finishing,spreading and working in close places but the blade is to small in brush, XL is great if you have any soft ground
I have an '04 D5GXL with 4K hours, bought it new. It has been a great little tractor. I like the D5G because it is a little heavier and has more horsepower than the 4 but still in the same size range. Weight wasn't an issue to me since I have a 953 to move as well. The D5G is great on fuel, really good. The 953 is a pig on fuel so the D5G is sent to any job that it can do, although I prefer running a loader. In a typical 8 hour day of running, the 5 will use less than 1/2 the fuel a 953 will - that's around 25 gallons @ $3.50 +/- per gal off-road, a considerable savings. So far in 4K hours I have replaced belts, turned the pins and bushings, 1 new set of track pads and replaced the metal hyd line than runs down on top of the push arms to the blade hydraulics. This metal line is really the only "bad design" I have ran across on the machine. Dirt, rocks and crap can build up in there and eventually rub pin holes in the line if you don't keep it cleaned out. There is a line that runs down both push arms. This D5 has been used for clearing, demo, fine grading, rough grading, stripping topsoil, blading gravel, etc, etc. It really shines doing import jobs, it has enough power and weight to spread tri-axle loads of dirt efficiently yet easy on fuel. It has been a good tractor and I would recommend one. The A/C is still one of the coldest of the bunch!
I've never run a "C" put have owned a "G". Good machine for all around work as a small independent contractor. fftopic Some times i think a good compact track loader (gehl ctl 80) is a better choice than maybe a D3 size machine ( this always starts a fight ).:my2cSORRY I think the D5G would serve you well, good machine . In the past we have used our Komatsu D31 (same class as a D3 ) and while we felt we used the right machine for the job you will occsionally get the old sore head who thinks you should have had a 5 or 6 ( running in top gear! ) :Banghead Good luck in your search
I'm kinda a newbie owner, and went and talked to a guy at the local cat dealership, and he said you couldn't turn the bushings/pins. This was only for old machines. He suggested that I just run out everything, and replace the entire undercarriage at one time. My machine is a D3C Series 2 LGP. Because, if you could turn the pins/bushing, it would save me some $$. Anyone want to clear this up for me? If it matters, it has a Berco undercarriage on it. Sorry for the hijacking of the thread. :/ On topic however, sometimes I find that I'd really like to have a little more power with my D3 when pushing material up steeper inclines. I use my machine mostly around my farm, and clearing a couple acers a year. Nothing major. If I had to do it all over again, I probably would have gone with a D5. My .o2, CJ
My D5 has the original Cat rails. I had the pins and bushings turned by the dealer around 3K hours. There are different trains of thought in turning pins and bushings in small tractors vs just running them out - due to the amount you actually save. Some say it's a wash to spend the money to turn P&B's and just run them out - their position is in the end the money is the same once you add in the down time and labor to remove, haul and re-install the tracks. I don't remember off-hand what it cost to turn the P&B's when I did it. The undercarriage is now on run-out, so it will need new hardware next time. There has only been a couple 100 hours put on the machine in the last 3 years. I hope I need to put a new UC on it before another 3 years, since that will mean it has been making $$$.
I normally see the larger diameter bushings ordered for the G series tractors anymore. That larger diameter bushing will generally last the life of the rails without turning. I have never seen a Berco track chain last long enough to justify turning pins and bushings in SALT tracks. I didn't much care for the C series Hystats. The machines had plenty of power but the controls were always messed up. One machine you had to hold the travel lever in the direction you wanted to go and another machine the control would stick in place and then fall back to neutral when the machine vibrated. I never ran one long but have heard they liked to overheat when working hard. You might find a C a little cheaper but they are going to be a lot older. If you trash a hydraulic system on either the machine it usually is basically scrap metal.
That does't sound good. How much for a repair (parts) on the pump or drive motor(s)? Can they be rebuilt or replaced by non Cat aftermarket? How much $ is a guy looking at for rails, pads, spockets on a 3g, 4g 5g? I can do my own repairs At least its good to hear the G's are good on fuel.
I had a 4C, and now have a 5M. For small work, I always liked the 4, but was many times wishing for a 5C to have just a bit more power and weight in nearly the same size package. The 4C I had was pretty reliable, and I sold it at about 5,500 hours. The only repair other than small things was a blown pump drive coupler. Happened with about 4,000 hours or so on it. I am happy with the 5M, but miss the smaller tractor from time to time for detail work, and it was better on slopes. On the U/C, The first time, I turned the pins at about 1,700 hrs, then replaced the entire thing at about 3,500 hrs. After tracking the cost and life, I decided to simply run out the next set, then replace the track group. This was because there was some wasted life from the rollers and idlers when the rails wore out the first time, as well as the cost of the turn. I forget what the cost was, but it seems like it was slightly less than 1/2 the cost of new rails. I calculated that the rollers and idlers would last 2 sets of rails ran to the limit with no turn, and that would be a slight savings, but not huge. The downtime, back when things were busy, was a factor as well. Bring out a new track group, swap it in a couple hours, and be on the way for a couple of years. If I remember, the track group, rollers, idlers, and segments totaled about $10,000, but I could be off. Much has happened since then.
I was quoted 10700 through berco awhile ago for my machine.
I have a 2006 D4G LGP and really like this machine. After using the hystat controls I don't want to go back to any other type like power shift pedal steer. I used to have a D3C LGP with cab and didn't much care for the visibility but the G series has good visibility out of the cab. D4G has good power, easy on fuel and I pull it behind my 3/4 ton Ram Cummins no problem. I really don't have enough work for it so might have to let it go but I'm sure will kick myself later if I sell it.
A lot of my customers like the G better. It is a smoother more comfortable machine. I really have not had many problems with them and we generaly run them up to 3-4000 hrs before selling them. They are simple to work on as long as you have acces to Cat ET(eletronic tech). The C's dind not have ant electronics.
I have a d3cxl hystat, its been real good for me. I got it at 2180 hrs and its now got 3810hrs with no problems to speak of.the engine is the 3046 non turbo and it goes good as. would love a "G" but the "C" dose the job with less money invested. Mine is a rops canopy but the cab "C"s dont look to have a lot of vision. Not to bad on diesel, about 12lt per hr, tracks look to be going to last to 4300hrs or so but will be shagged then. it works in all types of work from trimming soil around houses to cleaning off farm roads in very rocky going. new zealand had a lot of small dozers of all makes in the 60s/70s but not many in the last 20 yrs so most farmers a real shocked when you show them how far the small dozer has come and how much more the hystats get done over there clutch/brake cousins from the past.
I am very happy with a D3G LGP 2005 (1600 hours at purchase). I have used it to renovate a 80 acre farm that needed lots of work. Clearing, grading, road building, site preparation, backfilling, stream work, etc. It has performed very well. Originally, I was sorry I did not get an XL, but now I am glad to have the LGP. The ground can be wet and soft. The extra weight at ground level and footprint of the wider pads makes it more stable. I have had zero problems with it. It now has 2400 hours. I have used it hard in some clearing applications. I try to go easy on it when pushing trees. But I cleared the fence line between me and the neighbor where there were some very big trees. It takes some grubing to get big hackberry and elm trees down. It has done well and I have not broken anything. I guess I would sometimes like something bigger but the D5G is basically the same machine with more power. I wonder if I would have done some damage if I had more power pushing the blade when doing clearing. Those push-rods take some serious strain when using the corner bit on roots. I know you should not end-load the blade too much but that is the only way to cut those roots.
the C series is a pilot(servo) controlled hystat. The G series is electronically controlled. The pumps and motors are actually a similar series Rexroth, with the addition of electronics to the G. The electronics allows calibration of the system for straight tracking. The C series require an experienced tech to set pump and motor stroking for straight tracking through all speed ranges. The G series are calibrated with a computer (Cat ET program), but are also somewhat self-calibrating for straight dozing. The C series pilot control does not allow for track counter-rotation. C series pivot turn only, whereas the G series counterrotates with steering tiller in full left or right position. Also the C series has no F or R detent like a G. I'm trying to remember if there is a friction setting to hold the C series travel control handle (?) I was involved at one time with grafting a Cat 246 skid steer pilot control into a D3Chystat to make it counter-rotate. Cat had some undercarriage life concerns at the time of the C series introduction, so they decided to make it a pivot only steering system
I recently purchased a lot of D4 undercarriage parts at an auction. They are part of a kit that includes a couple of idler wheels, big springs yokes and tons of seals other stuff. New parts. Where's the best place to put these up for sale so someone can use them? I don't have a D4 I was purchasing parts for my Vermeer 24x40. Thanks Phil 817 320-9323
The early hystat C models you had to hold the lever, but after the first year or so they had added the friction lock to the travel control lever. That made it much better to operate, until the friction started to wear out and it would pop back to neutral in rough ground. A simple adjustment seemed to fix it, for a while. I always wished it would counter rotate. No, you don't need to do it all the time, but in the tight areas these small machines run in, it is needed from time to time.
Jdofmemi I thought they would counter rotate? To be honest I don't remember lol, To give my $.02 to the OP I have had 3c, 5c and 4g and other stuff like 5n etc. but my favorite rig was the 4g, very productive machine for the size but I have never had the 4 and the 5 side by side so I'm not sure how they would compare, however I am not sure if there is enough of a differ to justify the extra expense of a "g" as the hydro lever is about the biggest difference. Pj