With my dad buying a belly dump gravel trailer, and me wanting to buy a dozer. I have decided on compromising and have looked for a track loader for the past 6 months. I have finally found one in my price range and the size I need. Digging out creek bed, loading trucks, cleaning out a dugout, cleaning our corrals, digging holes to burry old buildings, pushing bush, and hopefully get jobs from other farms around me. It is a 2001 CAT 973C with serial number 03RZ00297. I have gotten the inspection report from the dealership. Engine reconditioned 6405 hours ago. Track drive motors, and hydrostatic pumps, all replaced 6405 hour ago as well. Undercarriage was recently went through, chain/rail and sprockets replaced 1300 hours ago, idlers and carrier rollers 2,700 hours ago. Link 75% Bushing 70% Shoes 60% Front idler 55% Track rollers 50% Carrier rollers 45% Sprocket 60% Average 60% That's undercarriage report. It has a 3.8 yard GP with teeth and blade segments. Looks in good shape not much wear the 963d at my work had more wear on bucket at 2000 hours. This track loader came from a large company that does new developments, they have 3 other units as well so their mechanics must know what they're doing. This loader was used for sewer and water installations only working with dirt and gumbo for its lifetime. No ripper on it. Which is alright but I would've liked to have hydraulics on the rear end or a 4 in 1 bucket. Just wanted some people's opinions on it. To me it sounds like a buy. It is 7 hours away and they will deliver it for free. To be honest I'm probably going to buy it either way but put side opinions are always good.
I know you already know this but that is a big, heavy machine. Do you have a lowboy or will you have to pay to float it? What's the total hrs on the meter?
Nothing against the 973, its a beast, but I think I'd rather have a 963 or even a 953 over the 73. The 73's are oversized loads, and are a lot heavier. If your planning on a general purpose machine I think a 53 would suit you better as they will take wet ground better. As for as the condition of the machine you found, it looks good, as cm said, what the total hours?
We have been running 973's machines for many years. They are beasts to operate and there isn't much they can't do. Be ready to pay to move it. Big heavy machine and classify as oversized in Pa. And most of the surrounding states. We most generally do all out own heavy hauling and that not a great or feasible option for most folks. The 953 is a better fit if you plan to move it often....good luck..
They are excellent machines and this one sounds like it is in very good condition. Go for it.
My dad and I are going halfs on a lowboy. He is buying hay and the guy selling the hay has it, he says it's in really good shape and it's shedded when not used. If I had a choice I would definitely choose a 963d. I ran one at work during the summer time. It had best of both worlds for weight to power. Not to mention you can jack the cab up. I have not been able to find any track loaders anywhere that aren't old open cab and worn out. The last one I found was a 953c but had 23,000 hours and I didn't have any reports. Plus it was from a landfill, about 14 hours away. Total hours on the machine is 18,933. The company that had it has 3 other units so I'm assuming they traded this in because it had the most hours. I looked at the specs on this unit and it weighs 6,000kg more then a 963d but it has 50 more horsepower. In the end I would like a 963 with a 4 in 1, but the price on this unit is very good and they will deliver it for free. Not really hard to move equipment up here just make sure you're legal on your weight. I have access to a truck and soon a lowboy. So moving it, I hope will not be a headache. No one has asked me on a price yet, take a guess on what yall think it is worth.
I'll bite, how much are they asking? With the age and hours in my area that tractor would run between $40K-60K. Track loaders in my part of the world are very popular but not a 973 size, 953's and 963's dominate in popularity for the smaller size and easier mobilization. The 973's are usually used in the larger landfills. Is it a former Sureway loader?
Came from a company Taillieu Construction. It's hard to find any track loaders John Deere or Cat. So when I found this I was surprised. The price is lower then what you threw out there. And in Canadian Dollars.
35k Canadian..just guessing .....we clear large tracts of land and these units are the first Machines in after the chainsaw and skidders come out.. If clearing land fast is one of your goals it doesn't get any better than the 973....They drink fuel like there is no tomorrow. The 973 has a Huge appetite for diesel. I cant stress that to you enough. Hope your ready for that part of running one of these big diggers...even our 953's are huge fuel hogs..
Wow thats a big machine. I could make a huge mess with it............ Lol
Comparable to the old 977 as to weight and function but one helluva lot better machine. Still very heavy, awkward comes to mind when trying to skew the machine lightly it probably won't. Great for bulk work, heavy use and looks by the report and condition we all can see a good purchase.
If that machine was $30K USD or lower I would buy it in a heartbeat if it was closer to me, even though I don't need it.
If I converted the dollar right now it would be $25,650. With free delivery. Which would roughly be $2,000 at $5 a loaded mile. Keep on mind this machine isn't going to be going 10 hours a day every day. Mostly a weekend warrior and some hours after I am off work, I plan on paying it off on my existing jobs wage and then use what I make with the machine into an account for repairs, fuel and other things related. It should be able to save us money in the end cleaning corrals is a 2 day affair. And hiring a big skid steer for those two days, usually 10-12 hours each day. Every fall. Plus my dad wants to haul gravel, he needed a loader. My RM sells clay at $1 a yard if I load it myself. We need a lot of clay brought into our yard. The creek bed from the cows walking through it has pushed the sides in and shallowed it out and put lumps that slowed the flow. So every spring it floods through our corrals making a mess. Late summer the creek usually dries up for a little bit while its hot so I could go in and clear out the lumps
Buy it, seen people pay way more for a lot less. Can you run it for awhile where its at?
It's at the dealership right now. So I'm assuming a guy could test drive it but not really work it. My boss is in the same city right now I'm going to call him today see if he can go take a look at it for a second opinion.
I have one just like the one you are looking at. They are great machines will move a lot of dirt, trees, rocks whatever you want. I have used mine for feedlots also, can push and pile very quickly. Good thing cause like others said, they are fuel hogs. They will sink if its to soft, really bad with the bucket full. Give the travel and steering a good check out before you buy. once warmed up, and engine at full throttle. move speed control very slowly from neutral to forward or reverse. tracks should move at same time or very close to same. if not, it is out of adjustment or has something going on. try to push a dirt pile or some thing, tracks should both spin out. Not just stop Steer pedals should take same amount of movement for each pedal to turn left or right. tracks will counter rotate if you push all the way down . They are very expensive to repair the hydro drives or pumps. Will cost more than asking price. Not trying to scare you, just be thorough on your test drive. take time to look through the machine history paperwork if they have it. good luck, post some working pics if you get it home.
listen to farmerlund. with this many hours you can expect very burdensome repair bills. check out the 955L just a couple of threads below. if I wanted a loader that one would do it for me. no hydro trans, cab, even a winch on the back, which might get you out of a hole that a 973 would be out of sight in. the PS trans is for sure a little slower than a hydro but it will hang in there way cheaper in the long run.
I'm not going to be taking it into any swamps that's for sure. Wouldn't want to risk getting stuck. I'm far away from the track loader and I'm on night shift so it's hard for me to get away, but my curiosity has gotten the better of me and I called the dealership and am going to have the shop foreman go out and test it for me to have a professional opinion on it. The unit was used until the day their new D series came so I'm assuming it can't be out of spec that much if at all. I want a cab, and I want hydrostatic, I'm use to running the hydrostatic machines and I enjoy the way they operate. I can't go wrong for the price if everything checks out. Small wheel loaders are 30,000 + around my area for 1980's machines. Sure wheels may be easier to transport could get away with driving them on the roads. But track loader can do much more in my opinion. Going to call back and ask for the work orders I forgot to get them last time I called.
ok, before you buy a hydro tractor with this many hours, go talk to the service manager at your local cat dealer and get him to show you what it means when that trans takes a hit. your purchase price will look like chicken feed compared to that. the 955L I mentioned has a cab, and is a powershift which will run so much cheaper than this it is no comparison. you will never know when a drive motor or pump goes out, and when it does it will take out every thing that the oil comes in contact with. probably why they want rid of it. but it is your money.. enjoy.
Pay the local dealer to take some oil samples of the engine oil, hyd, hystat and finals. It's money well spent and if they come back good, go for it.
Fair warning....I'm all over this tractor.....he who hesitates gets to keep looking.....
You better have a lot of coins to run and own that machine. I run 53,s and make good money doing it and it is still hard to pay all the fuel costs and insurance and trailer and truck tires. I can't imagine why you would need a tractor that big for "your own use". You would be better off spending 20 k more on a more useful machine. The 73s will destroy a loading area and sink in soft ground. I can burn 70 gallons a day in my 53 I bet that 73 could eat 120. How much money you got stacked?
yep, and "haste makes waste". You just need to take into consideration all of the opinions that, and I might add, you asked for. Then make your decision, live with it and don't look back. Don't wait for this forum to talk you into buying the machine, or out of it for that matter. Personally, before I got that worked up about spending that amount of money on anything, I would want to at least lay eyes on it before pulling the trigger.
Finally got time off my night shift to go take a peak at it. Drove 12 hours total today for a 30 minutes test drive on the machine. Motor runs great, idles smooth, nice that its mechanical injection. No oil leaks, and I can work on it myself if I ever have to. Hydraulics have plenty power to easily lift the front end. Can get both tracks to spin, forwards and backwards as well as independently each direction. Operates good, hydralics seem very snappy, a lot more touchy then the 963d I am use to. Bucket will last me for ever with what I have planned for it. Teeth are over 60% still judging by my memory on what the new teeth we got put on the 963d at work during the summer. The tips wear off fast anyways. There's side to side play the bucket arms, could get shimmed, the hydraulic rams as well. Maybe just those rubber rings you bolt on around the pins between the bucket and the arm would be enough to help control it. Undercarriage is in great shape, the equalizer bar was suppose to have some wear on it(pins I was assuming). But when I lifted the front end off the ground I could barely notice any play at all with the front of the undercarriage movement. Right now I'm waiting on oil samples on the engine oil, finals drives and hydrostatic system before I sign the dotted line. I guess there's been quite a bit of interest in the loader. But looks like I get first dibs haha. One thing that did concern me. When I was driving the loader from the parking spot to the test area I drove it through some mud. I slowed track speed to a crawl in high range and as I got into the mud it started to turn left on its own. I was assuming it was because one track was on mud, the other on dry ground. One got traction one didnt. After I was done playing I took it back to the parking spot, which was on concrete I was slowly creeping to get close to the same spot as It was when I hopped in it. And it did it again. Was turning left when I wasn't even on the pedals. Hit the right pedal and it straightened out again. Both times this was in high range.
I would ask the shop to see if all of the calibrations were good as well.
2X.....great advice and very important these are within specification.....
Said they're selling it as is. But if I buy it I'll pay to make sure within spec. They want to charge me for something but they are working with me on the sale so far I'm pleased with everything that has happened.
If anyone's interested, I think i'm taking the plunge and purchasing the track loader. I just need to find a way to get it home. Got my oil samples back. Going to try and clean out the hydraulic system, and the right final drive as best i can and then work it for a bit then take another sample.
I thought they was going to deliver it for free !!!!!!!!!!!
Negotiated with them and figured out a way that works better for me. I'm going to see about renting a trailer, or find someone on a back haul to bring it here. In the end I'm saving money.
I run a 3 or 4 year old 973d at work and I love it! excellent power and capability. I've been running it for two years now and I am continuously surprised at the overall tasks you can complete with it, this machine is NOT for someone who has a sloppy hand BTW. Have fun and be safe.
During the summer at work excavate paved back alleys with undergrounds, load out the asphalt first then dirt down to grade. Most of the time we put a layer of slag down as well for home owners to get in and out. Now this year we have a brand new John Deere 755k, should be interesting to see how this new unit handles.
Good deal, I hope it serves you well. Interesting that you used the term "slag". Are there steel mills in your area? The reason I ask is I grew up using the term slag for any type of gravel as slag was used a lot as an aggregate and the term stuck. Now there isn't much slag available as the steel mills have shrunk in my area and it's mostly crushed limestone.
Why do you need to clean out the hydraulic system and right final drive? I have a feeling you've fell in love with this machine before doing ALL of your due diligence prior to purchase. If there's a problem with oil samples could cost you a fortune in repairs.
We do have a steel mill in my area, and we use the raw slag from on the smelt pots. or "blue rock" as the landscaping places call it haha. We use to get the slag for free because it was a "waste product" but now they realized they can make money by selling it. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTqa34_W2B7vdWGXQQtklKap-hGbGEG_j There's a playlist of a major off ramp in my city where we used 600 mm of slag in a few different lifts. It's like 23-24 inches of slag. I have gotten oil samples, test driven it, and gotten previous work orders and a new report on it. I've taken the time to research the machine even looked up the previous owner. There was trace amount of water in the hydraulic system, and dirt. The final drive had a little dirt contamination. I'm assuming from the face seal from working in mud, or if it was from previous maintenance. No seals are impenetrable. I'm going to clean it extremely well, then change out the oil, run it a bit and see if it continues that pattern, then it would be time to investigate further. This machine isn't going to be going 12 hours a day every day. I have a full time job already.
I don't mean to disrespect you but I'm not sure you're really understanding what people are saying. You seem to be making excuses? Cleaning the outside does little to solve a problem of dirt getting in the final drive or hydraulics. What if the pattern does continue? I guess the big question is, are you prepared for a $25,000 or more repair bill if something craps out? I did the steering clutches and brakes on my 931B last year and it's a Tonka toy compared to a 973 but my bank account still took a $7000 hit. A machine isn't much good if it doesn't steer. Consider that a 973 is approx. 4 times bigger with a much more expensive hydrostatic transmission and other components. It may be a great machine, just want to make sure you know it could cost a fortune if repairs were needed.
How much is "a little" dirt and water?
See this thread. Without looking at the numbers again I don't think they were that bad that a good cleanout + maybe replaicng breathers, etc, wouldn't fix them.
I understand that there is big costs in repairs. But this machine has been immaculately maintained. The company has 6 other units exactly like this one, and they are upgrading all of them as the new units come in. There's a risk in purchasing anything, but i hope the steps i took will allow me to use the unit enough before anything needs to be looked at, that i can get my use out of it and more. There wasn't much dirt in either, and there was trace amounts of moisture, possibly condensation. Yes there is my thread, thank you for posting it here. My oil samples results are in here.
Got the 973c delivered today tested it out and after I used it for sbout an hour and half when I went to park it for the night, when I move it from neutral into drive really slow it turns left a bit. Probably needs calibrating? Anyone have a service manual for this unit?
PM me with a Serial Number and your email address. I've probably lost it since the last time.
something tells me you,d better have some deep pockets to look after this machine. hope not for you................
With the help from some of the knowledgeable people from this forum I believe this young man will be fine. He did put his money where his mouth is and bought a machine. I wish him well. Some great things came from Canada , Rush for one , eh.
The man did his due diligence and pulled the trigger. Once you do that you never look back. If this machine is indeed the one he wanted he never would have been satisfied with anything else. If there is trouble down the line he knows where to find help. I, for one, am happy for him.
What hurts is seeing this ad on the classifieds. IT was my track loader i used at work last year, leased unit, we have had it since 2008. They bought it from the dealership we leased it from. That was a good unit. But we upgraded to this brand new john deere 755k, notice only two axles on this trailer lol! Company has a contract with my employer and we needed it moved, well this is what they sent. Not our problem once i put it on the trailer.
Why do you say that? Every machine has it's flaws, i did my research and found a machine that was priced in my range, and was meticulously maintained by a company who owns a fleet of them. Not a backyard mechanic. It is something i'm familiar with, i know how to run and maintain myself. Mechanical injection motor. Oil samples came back with minimal negatives. I think it's a good buy still. Thanks for the kind words sir, i hope to have good luck with the machine. It's going to be lightly used for a semi retired machine. Hopefully make me some money to buy another piece one day. I tried my best to do my due diligence. You are correct about finding one i wanted, there was other machines i wanted more, but for the price this was the one for me. I hope i won't have to use the forum for anything other then showing off some work i do and if possible to help anyone else any way i can. Side note, the two speakers on these units are 5" round speakers, with 4" square mounting ears. Princess auto here in Canada sells 5" speakers with a tweeter in the middle for $20 a pair. Put them on and sounds 10 times better, louder, clearer and no rattling! Next thing i am going to replace is a rear work light. Was looking at retrofitting some LED light bars on the back to really brighten things up.
Good luck with the purchase, looks like a serious machine.
LED lights are the way to go. Not cheap but have the benefit that you (almost) never need to replace them. One word of warning, if you work in a lot of snow be careful, because the LEDs don't generate enough heat to melt the snow off the lights - if that's a problem to you that is. If you want something reliable that gets hot you need to go for HID lights.
Congrats! For the price you paid I would've bought it in a heartbeat. That loader would've made a great dump pusher and pit loader for my operation. Just curious why the company switched to JD?
That is one problem that LED's have but I found that in the dry snow with the extreme cold we get that it won't be as big of a problem. I like that you can get a dual beam feature on the lights. Yes my neighbours have been driving by my farm real slow for the past couple day now haha Yes I am happy with it so far, just need calibration and haven't had time to so that yet. Sure pushes manure like a monster, had to take it for a little test when I got it. My employer puts out tenders with specific requirements that the dealerships put bids out with their equipment and a price. We have rented that 963d for 7 years almost, worked out all the kinks of new equipment and basically paid for it, so the dealership decided to put it up for sale and profit off of it to upgrade to a newer unit. But in the process my employer put out a tender and John Deere dealership put their bid in lower with a machine in the same class. So they went with John Deere. It will be interesting to see how it works out having a ripper on it. Had 5 hours on the clock, and our sheepfoot had 4 hours. The teeth on the bucket of the crawler are gnarly, very interesting design, wonder what's the purpose of the round cylnderical piece on the tooth assuming a piece of carbide and to use it as a wear mark to replace them? Thanks for the kind words.
Interesting. Any chance of a photo..?
If what you're describing is what I think it is, it may just be where the sprue has been cut off post casting.
From the picture of your loader it looks like the same Cat J series my 953 has. Side pin with retainers inset on the shank. Which personally I hate to change out compared to K series. Thought of changing the shanks over to K series but after looking at the cost, I remember it's not that much of a PIA to change out the J's.
I will get some on Monday, everything is still nicely painted up right now so I'll get a picture when they're new. That is a good possibility. More then likely what it is, but the difference between these teeth and normal teeth is so much, makes me think there's something more. Yeah on the 755k the teeth are held in with a bolt and there's a 1/2" ratchet hole on the other side. Interesting wonder how hard it'll be to change these out. Side note was calibrating and found two stores codes, one is about voltage, the alt light is on when I have the throttle lower ten 1/3 when I start it up, but after I start it up and get the idle above that amount the light doesn't come back on. The calibrating did help a lot with tracking when I slowly go from neutral to drive. Second code is 079 0190.08 Took some time to clean out the cabin air filter, the main intake air filter, washed it, got dirt out of everywhere. I'm surprised how straight this machine is, sheet metals all good, no dents bends glass is excellent, good stereo(after I put my new speakers in), only one rattle when in traveling(under the direction/park brake lever area), and after i washed, i greased the crap out of everything to get rid of the old grease/water out, and have piece of mind that I know there's good grease in every joint. I am going to look at teeth replacements and have them ready for when I need them. Right now I have OFM w3352 teeth.
In the process of cleaning it, lifted the floor mat and its like 1" thick of dirt, and sunflower seeds. Looks like a chipmunk was trying to make a nest or something lol. But really the guys just never cleaned the interior much. Here's my bucket tooth brand and part number. Anyone recommend any brand of tooth? Clean undercarriage. Whole machine cleaned up and greased.
Those 1U-3352 teeth are a standard Cat J-350 pin-on long tooth. The one in your photo is a will fit, not genuine OEM. There's nothing special about them.
In regard to your battery/charging light coming on until you speed the engine up a bit, this is typical on many alternators and nothing to worry about in my experience. Nige can no doubt tell you whether or not to be concerned, but I don't think it is a problem.
I wouldn't be particularly concerned about the alternator light other than to check the fan belt condition and tension as well as the condition of all the pulleys and their respective bearings. Also try to figure out at exactly what RPM the light goes out and see if that RPM is slowly increasing with time. If it is you may well have an alternator going South which won't be the end of the world. Your MID079 CID0190 FMI08 diagnostic code is recorded when the ECM reads an abnormal frequency from the engine speed sensor. The engine must be running for the Code to be active (SERV CODE light on). Is the Code active or logged..? Either way I've just emailed you the Diagnostic Procedure for it.
That is a hoss of a loader. I've been on a 63 but never a 73.
Further inspection on my machine i have found that there is oil coming down the track roller frame right under the pivot shaft. Looks like i will have to replace that pivot shaft seal sooner rather then later. I checked the other side and there was some dust/dirt around in the area that looked a little wet. Hard to say, i will wipe that side down and go from there.
The side of the pivot shaft that's leaking oil level is 1" down from the bottom of the threads, the other side that was wet, is only 1/4" down from the bottom of the threads. I took pictures of what i found. I washed the machine over 24 hours before i took these pictures. Leaking Side Wet Side And another of the leaking side an hour and ten minutes after the first picture. This interests me because it took over 24 hours for the oil to drip down as much as it did in the first picture, but then in an hour you can see how much the oil moved. When i took the fill plug out of both sides it felt like it was under pressure i could see little bubbles of air come out from the threads when i took them off. Another question, how heavy are the belly pans on these things? I want to take them off and really clean in the engine compartment, it's full of dirt. I don't want to have a fire hazard if there's any grass or organics in there. From what i can see it appears i have over 200 pounds of soil in the engine compartment. I'm very anal about my stuff so this is driving me crazy knowing how filthy it is. I just spent 10 hours in the cab cleaning the interior. And i could still spend a couple more wiping everything down behind the seat and in the storage compartments under the arm rests.
when the machine gets to operating temp it will thin out the oils and leak worse. I,d get to the bottom of the leaks asap.
I have left a message at the dealership to see what they would charge to do the pivot shaft seal. I am not going to use it until i get to the bottom of that leak. Oil comes out, dirt goes in. While it's apart i might do the face seal on the final drive, the right side is whats leaking, and the right final drive had trace amounts of dirt. Two birds with one stone maybe. 079 0168.04 was the other code i had, both this code and the 079 0190.08 are there when i check with the engine off. There is no "SERV CODE" on the dash when the motor in running.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x8uqCD3OeE
Yair . . . Each to his own but it is unlikely I would be doing anything with that leak especially if I had to pay shop rates, if needs be heavy oil and run it. Cheers.
The pivot shaft seal and final drive duo-cone seal aren't really related; you can repair either problem without dismantling the other one. For what it's worth, I would be more concerned about a leaking final drive than a pivot shaft seal, but neither problem is too difficult to fix. (please note that 'not difficult' isn't necessarily the same as 'not expensive' )
In that case both are Logged Diagnostic Codes which can be cleared at any suitable opportunity using the Clear switch once you have the Diagnostic display in the correct mode. CM, in my email exchanges with the OP he was saying he was having trouble with track speed calibrations. I know you've been round this product line a fair bit, any tips..? (There are comments on one of his posts about the symptoms)
I suppose tip #1 is to print off, read and, UNDERSTAND the calibration procedure. It isn't a two minute job and needs studying before you jump in the cab. First, do the 'engine off' calibrations. If one sensor's calibration isn't accepted, STOP and fix it. If you plough blindly on, all your subsequent efforts will be to naught and all your dreams of a straight moving tractor will be cruelly dashed against the rocks of your own frail humanity. Bwahhhhhaha. (Let me know if I'm getting too lyrical. It's been a hard day and I've had a couple of beers already) Second, the 'engine on' calibrations. Best tip here is to find a long (100 yard+), flat, firm paddock. No bystanders to distract you as you'll be going flat out at some stages and concentrating on the horizon. Understand what you're attempting to achieve before you start as it will be a 20 minute bone shaking effort. If the gas strut on the RH armrest lid has failed, either replace it or tie the lid open somehow. It's heavy and having it banging into your upper arm for 20min WILL make you want to pack up early. Check the engine RPM at high idle matches what the ECU is reading. (Actually this should have been tip #1) Use a good phototach and compare with the specified RPM and whatever calibration submode whatever it is (15 maybe?) is reading.
I know my way around a wrench and have a front end loader tractor that could assist me in removing some parts. When you say the pivot shaft is expensive what exactly is expensive when doing the seal? Everything leading up to the seal, expendable parts, or the seal itself? The final drive is not leaking at all, I just got oil samples done and there was trace amounts of dirt in it. That's why I was thinking to replace the seal so that more doesnt get introduced. I did try to wash good in the undercarriage to try and get rid of any packed in mud but there is a guard that goes around the final drive seal so I couldn't really wash in there. Honestly I think when I washed with my pressure washer it possibly loosened everything up to help the pivot shaft leak more
It looks like you got a good deal on that tractor. Something I have come to realize running and working on older stuff, is to not get to worked up about leaks. It is hard for me to tell but I would say this, I have machines that leak and I just add oil. For some reason, I got the impression in your first post that you were working on a small farm. Your pics lead me to believe you are working a big place. When you start pushing dirt post some pics of the jobs, I am curious about the scope of work that the 73 will be doing. I laughed at Parker running his tractor out of fuel on gold rush. It came back on me this past year and a half so far I have ran my 53 out 5 times and my international dump out once, every time the machine is on a job and I hope it can go a little further since my fuel tank is not on site. I had an algae problem in truck but not now! Once it flutters, I pull the throttle back and shut it down. So far I have caught it before it dies but every time it runs low i am in a spot. Once you get that girl working post up how much fuel it eats in a day..
Post up some pics of the cab as well as the engine etc. Is it new enough it has the electric throttle or still a lever? I tend to agree with the others on the pivot shafts , keep them full of oil and tackle it when you need u/c work. On the belly pans , most people including myself use a floor jack , put pressure on the pan and take an impact and remove all the bolts , let the jack down and if the pan is balanced you can roll it out from under the machine. A couple guys had a machine burn here recently , I brought mine in done a service and cleaned the pans on it. I was told it took less than 5 minutes to be fully engulfed and the first 2 and a half or so they didn't know it was on fire.
When it comes to your final drive and the bit of dirt/water it has in it, my call is the same as it was before. We had all sorts of issues on any machine that was working in "slop" and you couldn't stop the water entering the finals. What we found was simply to flush the finals with diesel to get the crud out and then refill with new oil. IIRC you said the previous owner had regularly worked in such conditions so it doesn't surprise me at all to see dirt in the analysis. Maybe what does surprise me is that it's such a low quantity of dirt.
That's why I always tried to label leaks and dirty conditions as a fire hazard. Management people around the company I worked for seem to think leaks and build up of dirt and trash are nothing more than an appearance item so they are at the bottom of the priority list. That is until the big excavator looses a hydraulic line out in the middle of a mud puddle and it takes five times as long to repair due to the caked on mud in the guards that also caused the hose ends to rot away! Instead of replacing one hose I think we ended up replacing eight hoses and all the hardware for the guards.
I didn't say it WOULD be expensive. Just don't be surprised if you end up buying more than a seal. Here's some possibilities; You need to push the idler back. Track adjuster seals sometimes get torn when moved back to a part of the cylinder which may be rusty through lack of use. This may have to be fixed. You have to remove the equalizer bar end pin. It's possible that this will be seized in and you have to cut it to get it out. It's also just as possible that the pin is loose in the bore and you have to get the track frame repaired. You will probably decide to replace the bearing and seals in the end of the equalizer bar. You may find the pivot shaft bushes in the track frame are worn and need replacing. (In which case you'll also need to fabricate some puller plates to install the new ones.) You may find the pivot shaft itself is worn. I'm not saying any or all of this WILL happen, but it's all possible.
Good point. I've never managed to get an equalizer bar centre pin out without having to air-arc it - EVER..............unless it was on a brand-new machine
Yair . . . As I have been mentioning on here for years, if you take the lids off a compartment or start pulling bits off a high hour machine it can end up a can of worms. Until it becomes unmanageable or is an obvious indication of internal problems I let the suckers leak. Cheers.
Good points on everything. Today after work i wrestled those belly pans off, mine were about 4 times heavier then they actually are with all the caked on mud. I ended up scraping under the machine for literally 3 hours with pry bars and screw drivers. I swear in total there i shed off 1000 pounds of mud from my machine. I did find some interesting stuff. First off there's tons of new hoses under there. Second, there is a leak between one of the main feed lines for the drive motor and i believe one of the release valve hoses. Here's pictures of the teeth on that new John Deere 755k i have at work. Those cylindrical pieces on the teeth are the casting tubes, seen the cut marks after the paint wore off. Here's some pictures of what my belly pans looked like. Front Center Two Rear Panels
Then after some scraping, and a spray bottle with citriclean in it for size comparison.
Here's the hose's that rubbed on each other and is dripping. There is a hose that goes from drive motor to drive motor, which is brand new but i could tell it was seeping. I'm thinking the fitting just needs to be snugged back up Then there is a hose going to the drive motor on the right side that looked wet as well. Don't know if it's actually leaking or not. I'm guessing so but slowly.
Then because someone asked for a cab picture. My machine is not electric throttle. Still on the good old cable. Motor picture. These pictures are all "before", after i took them i washed the machine down under the belly pans with my pressure washer. Sprayed all the oily spots with citriclean to get as much off as i could. Jeeze do those reman drive motors and pumps SHINE under there now that they're all cleaned up!
Belly pan fires are fairly common ways these machines leave the working world behind, I took the pans off my 40 year old Allis to remove a full 30 gallon drum of 'stuff' from around my engine and trans not including the sticks and leaves hanging above the solid fill.
Look careful in the dirt you clean out of those belly pans, you can often find tools and other things like the holdowns some one was in too much a hurry to bother putting back on! Once they are clean and kept that way you will find it much easier to locate and repair leaks,
I think you've got the right idea. My dad and I bought an older loader and it had the same play in the same area. We bought some of the rubber cord rings like you mentioned. It fixed all the slop and they've held up really well under regular lube intervals. That is an impressive machine! Looks like it's in great shape for the money you paid. Sounds like you've got some nice projects to tackle as well. Thanks for updates and pictures.
+1, took th belly pan off of a D6C I ran. Looked like the pics in previous posts. Couple wheel borrow loads of shmag. Found 2-3 wrenches in the dirt. CheerS Stew
The cab interior looks good. A few hose leaks here or there , the whole machine looks over all good. The u/c looks to be good as well. The engine is one of the best around as well. I'd like to try it out If you weren't 2500 miles away.
I like that word, shmag, lowbed driver, can I use it?
I like the attitude change from the beginning of my thread when I was just interested in the machine. The interior is in good shape, but you wouldn't have known before I spent 4 hours cleaning vacuuming and wiping down everything and armour all coating everything. When I went to look at the cat at the dealership I showed up after hours and the salesman I was communicating with had already went home. So I got to talk to a serviceman. He was very honest and blunt about it, like everyone else said, this machine is BIG but I knew what I was getting myself into and what I would be satisfied with. The second thing he said was this motor in the 973 is one of the best motors CAT made, and was the first motor he rebuilt when he was in school. The serviceman was in his mid 50's, he said it had been around 30 years? I never thought the motor would have been around that long. Mechanical injection is what I wanted from the beginning and minimal electronics. So far I have found a handful of extra bolts and one 7/16 wrench, oh and a quarter lol. I haven't had time to sift through the belly pans but I will most definitely do that I like freebies. When the ground dries around the machine I'm going to move it tomorrow and bring it up by my shop and out of the pasture and I'll get more pictures of how well this thing has actually cleaned up underneath. Boone, where did you find those rubber bolt on o-rings? Only place I've seen them is on a case loader but I absolutely hate the local case/Volvo dealership. Some few jobs I have to do are dig some nasty deep holes and push some old wooden grain bins into the hole, and burn them. Same with an old house. Have a few massive rocks bigger then a large dining table that I'm either going to move or just burry deeper. Then word is getting out I have this machine and I might be spreading dirt from fresh dug basements. I'm going to try my best to figure out which hoses are actually leaking and which ones are just sweating or need to be snugged back up. That pivot shaft seal is driving me nuts just knowing its leaking.
Picked them up at the Komatsu dealership (Tractor and Equipment). They were a bit pricey but worth the money. We used them at the loader arm pivot and the top of what they call the bellcrank where the bucket curl cylinder attaches. Here's a link to the parts breakdown. It's part no 8, 11, and 14. There are a few different sizes that might fit yours if Cat doesn't have them. http://komatsupartsbook.com/#?k=!0!43!6110!186!187
I've never understood how some operators can run a machine with cab filled with trash! I always wondered how their house looked at home? Hated working in the cabs some of the equipment in the quarry, would rather crawl under the truck than work on the heater in the cab, or seat never sure what was in the bags on the floor or under the seat!!!
most of the time so called operators don't care as it isn't there machine. I went through this with so called operators in my trucking business. theres driver and then there operators, from my experience operators are hard to come by. the rest is a dime a dozen.
Some of the problem where I worked too many bosses did not seem to care, too much effort to see to it that equipment was taken care of and kept clean. Hey it's a truck/loader in a stone quarry it's going to get dirty! Then there were the few operators who kept the cabs so clean I hated to have to climb in the cab as I might get something dirty. But I woul remove coveralls if I thought they might have dirt on them before I got in those cabs.
easy to clean out a cab, open both doors,take a water hose or 5 gal bucket of water and wash it out. nothing to hurt in there. I learned to look at the vehicle the person wanting a job drove up in, didn't have to be new of course but the way it was kept up did matter as my equipment was going to be treated even worse I figured. also the way the person kept themselves said a bunch.
That would work in the older equipment, but this newer equipment with hundreds of wires switches and relays and cloth seats kind of make that not a good option!
Absolutely correct. Far too many electronic doohickeys in cabs these days to go in there with the fire hose. If the cab is basically dry inside a good stiff brush and a vacuum cleaner would get the bulk of the dust out pretty easily. It would also have the advantage of being aboe to get into tight corners,
Couple hoses on the left drive motor have rubbed together. I am wanting to replace the hoses or repair them. If I take the hoses off will it drain the entire system or is there valves that would keep the fluid from draining out? The left drive motor, there's two main feed hoses the upper has rubbed on a hose that goes from the front outside of the left drive motor to a 3 way T just infront of the right drive motor, which goes to the same fitting on the right drive motor. And then there's third hose that goes from the drive motor end up to the pumps which I think is te one that is actually doing the leaking. So far the main hose is 550 bucks.
So i figured out which hose is leaking but cannot for the life of me figure out which hose it is on the CAT parts website looking through the pictures.
I see what looks like 122-6882 on the hose, but when i search for it, nothing comes up.
Look for an aluminium tag wrapped around the hose. This will have the assembly part number on it. If your hose doesn't have one, look for the tag on one of its neighbours. You can then search for this number and it may lead you to the correct section of the parts breakdown.
Is it the one coming from the left hand side of the cross? If so, it's 156-8146. (I think)
take the hose off and take it to a hose making shop,most likely they can reproduce it exactly a lot cheaper than cat.
I was thinkin about taking the hose off and taking it to a shop and get them to cut it in half at the leak and just crimp on a swivel fitting or something that I will be able to strap to to keep the hoses from rubbing together again. I will need to do the same with the other smaller hose rubbing on the main lines to the drive motor. I will have to try and find an aluminum tag. Good to know I seen a couple of them but never thought much of it. From the 4 way connection it is the left hose with the 45 degree hard line fitting on it. It is a long one, from by the left drive motor around the front of both drive motors then up to the pumps on the right side. The hose doesn't look bad, it wouldn't have leaked if it never rubbed on the other hoses.
ippielb, Here's something you may wish to look into to protect the new hose(s): http://www.go2hydraulics.com/product/10285F/epha-hose-protector-5-sizes-3-colors-40-to-430-degrees.html
And then it'll probably only blow the hose somewhere else IMHO. Remember the hose is most likely as old as the machine. A replacement hose would be my call. Maybe is a clamp or even clamps that should be on there that are missing, you should consider that possibility. A Parts Manual would help you in that regard.
A trick i learnned from my heavy trucks is take old inner tubes, double it up and put it where any hase touches anything the tie wrap it all together tight. I,d replace the leaking hose personally. Fix anything once and fix it right then be done with it. Also dont make your hoses bend sharply........
Splitting a piece of heater hose and placing around hoses on rub spots is easy and does wonders. It does not seem to rub thru like a harder high pressure hose. I belive the hose has a little give in it.
If that part number isn't the hose then i don't know what is. Thanks so much for finding that for me, i had no idea where you even found that part of the parts catalog. $166 for it isn't too bad at all, better then the $500 main hose thats for sure! I will be taking either heater hose, or tire tubes to insulate it against the other lines as well as insulating the other lines as well. Now i just gotta figure out where to drain the system from to change the hose. I found 5 clean 5 gallon pails to put the oil in. Has anyone ever re-used oil after they drain it or always just refill with fresh? I was thinking about re-using it and putting it through a filter as i pump it back into the reservoir. Definitely need to get a service manual, there's just so many websites out there selling them that i don't know where to get it, anyone know a reliable source that they have used before?
You don't always have to drain the tank to change a hose. If you're quick you can disconnect the fitting and screw a cap on before you lose too much. A lot of professional fitters will have a device to make a vacuum in the hydraulic tank so you can change even main suction lines with little oil loss. As far as draining the oil and then putting it back goes, I personally wouldn't bother for such a small compartment. All that said, bearing in mind the machine is new-to-you, if it were mine i would be changing all the oils, just for peace of mind. The hose was actually a little tricky to track down from just the photos, BUT, that ORFS cross with the swivel nut is a fairly unique item so I found a part number for that from the hose and tooling reference guide, put it into SIS under your serial number and from then on it was fairly easy.
I actually have heard of that, from my experiences just taking a shop vac and then putting it over the oil fill turn it on then take the engine oil drain plug out and it sucks air through the drain plug hole and no oil comes out, you stay clean and don't lose the plug in the used oil pail. That is a very good idea to try and track down a unique part, would be easier to find then one of 100 hoses down there. I'll just have to buy some caps to plug the holes on the fittings before I tackle this.
since you don't know how long it been since installed unless its in perfecy condition I,d change the lube.
Get some of the nylon hose sleeves like backhoes use and put it on the hose before installing it or get the spiral plastic hose wrap that can go after the hose is installed.
Another trick if no vacuum is available as when working out in the field is to hook a hose to the vacuum port on the engine of your truck like where the brake booster is connected, this I guess only works on gas engines, and hook this to the fitting on the hydraulic tank where the breather mounts. The let truck idle while you remove and replace the hose. Only problem is the last one I did this on the oil level was just high enough that a little hydraulic oil was sucked into the intake of the pick-up trucks engine! Took a couple mile of hard running to clear that out So if using the vacuum make sure it isn't sucking the oil out of the tank. Might want to use the "Suck bucket" in the system. If you don't know what a "Suck Bucket" is run a search on this site for that term.:notworthy To save the search:
That bucket trick is like an oil catch can on a crankcase breather. That's one thin I noticed on my machine is the breather is open to the atmosphere I'm going to put a can and a filter on to stop possible impurities. I am going to look at my options for protecting the wear on the hoses from rubbing together. The one hose Down there already has that plastic liner that is wrapped around it. I think I'm going to try a large heater hose and double it up and put hose clamps.
Well getting a hose made up at dealership price wasnt much different then a hydraulic shop so I didn't want to screw around.
If you want to do a "proper job" then take a look at some of the factory clamps that are a 2-piece steel clamp with like a rubber doughnut inside it, like the one circled in the photo below. They're the mutt's nuts when it comes to keeping floppy hoses where you want them. Fit one one each of the 2 hoses in question and bolt them together. Your machine most likely has a few of them installed already in certain areas already.
Those would be perfect. I'll take a look at the hydraulic shop for those. Then I wouldn't need to worry about it. I got my hose and a 5 gallon pail of hydraulic fluid and a plug and cap to make hose change easier.
Does anyone have any ideas for changing the hose the upper fitting is in a tight spot, doesn't look like much room in there for a wrench. I'm open to suggestions. I also changed over all my lights and retrofitted LED's in.
Yair . . . ippielb. I always had a set of these in metric and imperial plus many others that were made to order over the years for getting specific fittings on certain machines . . . in some cases it is impossible to undo fittings without modifying a wrench and maybe sacrificing a perfectly good socket or ring spanner for the cause. . . . With machines such as yours which are more sensitive to dirt than what blokes like me would consider "Normal" I believe changing hoses in awkward places to be a high risk operation. I believe you need to get in there with a steam cleaner or pressure washer and get the whole area above and around fitting absolutely spotless. Looking up one eyed with oil dripping in your ear is a real good recipe for getting a little swadge of crud dropping into a hose as you thread it up there. I normally try and get it into position with a cap in place and remove at the last instant before connecting . . . nothing beats the peace of mind of knowing there is no dust or crud laying on top of a little ledge or on the top flat of an adjacent fitting. I have seen hoses hooked up in circumstances beyond belief and just know that **** is going to happen. Cheers.
I have spent two days washing and spraying down under the machine in the engine compartment and everything as best i could. I have a cap and a plug to try and prevent any dirt and debris getting in. I will have to find a crowfoot big enough to fit around the fitting. That or i'll have to make one. I want to try and use the bucket vacuum trick and keep all the fluid in the tank while i do it. But i might have to drain it into pails. I have 5 empty clean 5 gallon pails ready if i need be. The fitting is directly behind the oil tank itself and i believe i will have to get it from the bottom.
It's probably already been said but I don't re-use hydraulic oil when changing out a hose or component. Whatever drains into the 5 gal bucket gets poured in the waste oil tank. I can buy Cat spec 10wt hyd. oil from my dealer for $65 for a 5 gal pail, cheap insurance IMO. I'd rather spend a couple $100 on hyd. fluid than run the risk of contaminating the system, plus you get new oil in the system.
$106 a pail plus tax for me up here. I had just gotten the oil sampled and it came back with no problems so i didn't see a reason to dump it. Machine hasn't made me any money or done any work yet.
It is 100 plus a bucket here too at cat. Go to an after market fuel oil dealer. Shell and Phillips have an oil that's meets cats spec for about 60.00 per 5 gallons.
Wow. I guess we're getting a deal just west of you GI.
I think I have a target on my back when I go there, they don't cut me any slack..
I,d buy the oil 55gal at a time and filters by the case. don't forget to check your acidity level in your antifreeze. if its wrong it will pin hole your cylinder liners from coolant side in.
I'll look around and see if I can find a decent supply of hydraulic oil that meets or exceeds cat specifications. I'll look for a drum and change out the hydraulic system at the same time. Is it okay to run pure distilled water during the warm months? Just to try and flush the system good? Or just flush it as best I can then refill with coolant and forget about just pure water. My coolant tester broke on me so I'll go to princess auto and grab another one
The boiling point of water is of course 212 (100 C) degrees at sea level. At 2000 ft. it is around 208 F. I would be afraid that working it hard on a hot summer day might cause it to boil over about the time the thermostat opens. The boiling point does go up with pressure on the radiator, but that would be too close for my comfort.
Yeah that is close, if a guy got ambitious maybe throw in a lower temp thermostat. But then again I wouldn't be at the temperature motor likes and still risk overheating. I have a couple oil suppliers for bulk, petrocan is the one we use for motor oil on our farm equipment, does anyone know if their PRODURO TO-4, or their HYDREX would meet caterpillars HYDO specs,
Just has new injectors and cups put in my 953c after finding diesel in the radiator. My Cat mechanic said they have found that Cascade dish washing detergent is the best way to flush the systems. Dump the coolant pour a bottle in then fill with water. Run the machine for around 2 hrs. The flush twice with fresh water, empty then refill with Cat ELC.
That's the SOP for a contaminated system. It doesn't have to be Cascade, any non-foaming dishwasher detergent will work just fine.
And don't be surprised if you have to repeat the detergent and flush more than once. Forget how many time it took to get the 988H we had an oil cooler fail on till it was clean. Maybe that Mobil oil is just a extra good oil, just did not want to break down and come out! Diesel might wash out a little easier than motor oil.
Tomorrow I'm getting a crowfoot wrench cut out and made up, the fittings are 1 5/8", going to do the suck bucket trick. Hopefully I don't have problems trying to get that oring seated way up there. It sucks because its way up ther behind the hydraulic tank. I talked to an old cat mechanic he suggested to try those tight weave nylon wraps to stop rubbing on the hoses. I'll probably end up doing that for all 3 hoses in that area to make sure they don't rub. I just need to find a triple axle lowboy now that we can haul hay or my machine on. So expensive these days. I still need to try and figure out about those rubber extrusions to slip between to stop the side to side play on my hydraulic cylinders
I think I had to work on a similar hose on my 953, in one case I had to remove the fuel tank to get to the fittings and the one on the hydraulic tank side I was able to get using a set of hydraulic wrenches, I believe we're made by snapon. I was told harbor freight sold them but I did not see the same ones. The hydraulic tank side and the fitting which is centered on top is a real sob. They were on so tight I had to improvise an extention to add on to the wrench. I got to fix mine on a job site with ice coming down and freezing my hands to the wrenches. So much FUN.
Well here's my set up for putting a vacuum on the hydraulic system. Worked like a charm never lost a drop of oil out of the hoses, but learned for next time on the bucket trick. Got some oil in my bucket. But not that bad. I got the new hose on, put on some combine belting and cable tied it to the other hose. Doubled it up. Let me tell you how much of a pain that upper fitting was. Especially the o-ring...
Well got some work done with the track loader yesterday.
Here's what the corral looked like cleaned out. And on the other side of the pasture we have a rather large spot where we've been spreading straw for the past 10+ years so it's gotten up there in size. I cut the top half off and pushed it to the south to make a wind break and to level off the area. And here's the hose that was leaking.
Good to see that it seams too be working out for you.
So how much fuel per hour does your 973 use
I don't really have a number on fuel consumption. I ran it for 4.5 hours on Saturday, and. From a full tank, now its just below 3/4. It has a 400 liter tank I think? So basically I think I was burning 23 liters of fuel an hour, or 6 gallons per hour? I don't have a fuel meter to measure exactly. So far so good with the machine.
I'd like to run one of those , I would think it would burn upwards of 10 plus gallons an hour working hard. 63 will burn almost 10 working hard. Its a good looking machine.
From what I hear people say up to 13 gallons per hour on the 973. Hopefully I keep it down a lot from that. Lol fuels expensive.
I know a 973 is in the same price range used as a 963-953. I guess theres not a good market for them because of there size which is good for us little folk. your machine sure looks good............
On a hard day my 953 will burn a tank of fuel - 50 gals. That's roughly 6.5 gals an hour. I'd be surprised if a 973 is double that but I haven't ran one. Yeah it's the size and the weight. Most of the '73's in my area are used in landfills and dirt pits.
I'm pleased with my machine so far, although the batteries die within a few days when not used. I just turn the master switch off now when i turn the machine off. Who needs radio presets lol. I also find it hard to believe that my machine can go through 13 gallons an hour. I can see it being a lot but not 13. I hope at least.
Weak batteries are very hard on starters
I don't know if its the batteries, or if its the alternator that needs to be replaced.
haven't you got a load checker
The battery charger i do have has the tester on it, but it's only 12v, so i can only check one battery at a time. it says "good" but i don't know if i should believe it.
I would remove the neg cable and put an ammeter in between the cable and terminal, a couple amps is likely random memory etc and batts are bad but if more you have a draw some where and need to start pulling fuses while watching the gauge to try and isolate it. Good luck it can be very hard to find especially if intermittent.
Crank the machine and unhook the batteries, if it stays running the alt is good, if it quits the alt is bad. Bet its your batteries.
hows the 973c doing for you ? haven't seen a update for a while.
After I used it I topped up the fluids got rid of all air pockets in the system. It's been busy at work And had a bunch of stuff to do on the farm. It's been raining on and off for a while right when the creek was almost dried up it rained and got it all nasty again. Looking forward to getting that done. Harvest is coming up right away with the lack of rain we had this summer and spring the lentils are ready to be cut. I will try unhooking the batteries while it's running to see what it does next time I start it. My dads friend supposedly found work for me to do, and a guy we bought a trailer from for hay said he has a few dug outs that need digging so that sounds good.
How does a person remove these codes? I can see the codes when machine is not running.
Here's a project I did behind the corrals, straightened the creek a bit, took out the silt, and put a nice slope to have all the rain/spring melt go into the creek. Noticed this as well. Track tension is not even both sides. I never checked for mud being packed in on the sprockets and bushings.
You will need to borrow or make a 4C-8195 Service Tool, otherwise known as a Click Box, to remove the Codes. See this thread .........
Well I suck with electronics, so I'll have to try and find a used one. May be easier said then done, and under further inspection I see that the track adjuster on the left side is leaking a little bit of grease. I am going to pump it back up tight and see how fast it leaks and loosens the track see if it needs attention sooner rather then later. It is the seal on the rod by the way.
If you get hold of one send me a PM with your email address and I'll flip you the manual on how to use it. It's literally a 5-minute job to clear those old codes.
Levelled off and sloped by our new concrete pad for the hopper bottoms hopefully water flows downhill like it's suppose to.
man that 973 is a macho machine. I,d love to run it for a while.
Yeah, it's definitely a large strong machine. So far with what i've done with it, i feel very comfortable with operating it hiring myself out to do jobs if that time comes. I tightened my track to match the other one. Only took a few pumps with the grease gun, nothing was seized up i'm glad. There was some grease in and around the grease point. Don't know if someone made a mess last time servicing in there, or if it's leaking on the inside. But taking four 3/4" bolts off and pumping a little grease into it every once in a while doesn't really bother me. The day after i leveled off by the concrete pad my dad and i lifted hopper bottom bins out of the ground so the picker can move the bins on the pad. Some bins were 1 foot deep, i watched my RPM on the dash while lifting, never even fluctuated. Very pleased, but i do need to get someone more experienced in calibrating the track speeds and syncing them to come give me a hand, i cannot figure out how to stop it from turning to the left when slowing down to a stop, just before stopping it turns left a bit. I seen my mom take a picture of my dad and i lifting them out of the ground i'll see if i can steal it and show you guys.
You will need a Click Box to do the track control calibrations. It's an easy job to do with the correct tool and the "how to" manual ............
The calibration buttons are under the right arm rest
Damnit, I'd forgotten these models have a built-in Click Box ......... well spotted. ippielb - send me a PM with your email address. I'll forward you the manual of how to clear your codes and calibrate all the power train including the track drive motors
Just read this thread from the start.Very enjoyable.
Done So from what you've read how do you think I've done so far, needing only one hose, and then topping up fluids and a dirty cab?
and you have mail .........
Very nice
Not sure what happened to the above post??? My reply appears to be part of your quote???
Put on 12 hours on it in the past few days digging out a creek bed a bit, going back to the part of the creek I deepened a month ago and spreading that dirt out nicely in low spots pushing a bunch more manure, and grading the lower feeding area in our pasture. Did find that the bucket corners, the bolt on edges that the tooth slips onto, was loose. All of ours at work are toght and don't move. But mine on my 973 wiggles. I tried to tighten that bolt but it hasn't been touched for a while so it's a cut of and stick a new one in, but not if I don't have to.
mine are the same. both corners lift and a few of the teeth can be kicked from side to side. wasn't sure if it was supposed to or not.
If the hardware for the corners can't be tightened the only solution is to replace it with new ASAP because the longer you use it loose the more it will create an oval bolt hole in the bucket so that when you finally do get round to replacing the bolt you'll still never be able to stop the corner moving. Pin-on teeth moving from side to side (as opposed to up and down which they will do a bit unless they are really well-packed with earth) is generally a sign of worn tooth adapters. If you can find one wehere the tooth is realtively tight use the form of it as a template to build up the other ones with a bit of weld.
Yeah the corner pieces will need to be replaced then. Hopefully the hole isn't egged out. The rest of the teeth don't move side to side, just up and down. I could probably take the teeth off and put a bead or two to limit the up and down movement.
Regarding the corner adapter I'd try replacing both the bolts with new ones and tighten them correctly (as tight as you possibly can then a bit more using a 6ft pipe) before considering replacing the adapter itself. Don't try to take away all of the up-and-down movement. The teeth are designed to be slightly "loose" then to fill with dirt from the back. You could end up breaking a tooth adapter if you don't have little a bit of play. How much movement do you have at the very end of the worst & best tooth or are they all similar..? The best way of doing it would be to pick whichever tooth has the least up-and-down movement and try to make the others all the same as that. Make sure you preheat the adapter to 150DegC before starting to weld on it otherwise you run the risk of cracking when the weld cools. Did you manage to successfully clear your Diagnostic Codes BTW..?
Well, went through and used my loader some more, took it out into the field now that the crops are off, trying to calibrate everything. I have a good idea what i'm doing but i cannot calibrate it. There must be something more to whats going on. I couldn't get the loader to track straight in forward 1st position. I also can't get the unit to stop moving when i have it in the first position. I went into the other submodes and found that the right side has 100kpa at idle, meanwhile the left side only has 80kpa. It stays at a different pressure through the rpm. It always has that 20% difference through the ranges and rpm. I will need to get some acetylene to heat up those nuts on the adapters to take them off. 3/4 breaker bar and a 10' snipe and it didn't budge. Forgot to print off the process to clear the codes, will do that tomorrow. But to follow up on the problem with my machine not tracking straight. With the direction lever in park, everything is fine. But as soon as i bring the lever back into neutral, it starts to creep forward. This is in the lever position "0". If i go to either the reverse side, or the forward side in the "0" position it still creeps forward slightly. Now if i would take the lever and go into the reverse "1" position, the machine will go into reverse, and be normal, but when i go back into neutral from reverse, as it makes the transition into neutral, it will turn left. For going forward if i slowly creep forward, the machine will turn left as well as when i'm transitioning into neutral. These effects are more prominent while the fluid is cold. Going through the calibrations again today did help with the fluid being at operational temperature. Afraid i might have to call in a mechanic for this one.
Regarding the calibrations they have to be done with everything at full operating temperature, and that means everything really HOT. You can't just run the engine for 10 minutes and expect everything to be up to temperature.......
Yes, everything was hot, i got everything warmed up to the proper temperature as the instructions you provided me state. I still don't understand why the right side pressure is 20% higher then the left side.
Did you start by calibrating the steering pedals and centre pedal? If you have no error codes, the calibration should work. You do know that you need to click the calibrate switch multiple times, not hold it down? Sometimes as many as 15 or 20 clicks before you will notice a difference.
Went through the entire calibration form the beginning. Everything was in an acceptable range. The error codes i had were from a low voltage, and the other one i never did find out what it was. 079 0190.08
0190.08 is for an abnormal signal from the engine speed sensor. Is the fault code still active?
According to what I see in the post on Page 11 it was a Logged Code, the SERV CODE light wasn't lit up in the photos, unless the Diagnostic Code has come back that is.
Hasn't come back. When I do the calibration I click the adjust speed switch until it stops accepting it and it still turns to the left. If needed I can take a video and shoe what it does.
well, i am at a loss at what to do to try and fix this tracking problem. While having the lever in neutral, the machine creeps forward. i have set my minimum speed as low as it lets me and it still creeps. And it still turns to the left no matter what calibrations i do. The only difference i can see is when i go to pressures it shows that the one side is getting 20% more pressure then the other.
A video would be a good idea I think. Hopefully one of our track loader experts can help you sort this one.
I'm uploading a video now, excavated a concrete pad in one of our old yards, the machine likes to stop the left track when in forward gear when slowing down, more then when accelerating. Video will show it when it finally uploads. Also took a few videos of the work I was doing to show.
https://youtu.be/qeO529oCg4M
I suggest you exchange the left and right forward solenoid valves and see if the problem switches sides. Are you the guy that has his own shop manual, I can't remember? If not, let us know and someone will look to see which ones are which.
I do not a have a shop manual, been looking for a book but everyone around here doesn't have books anymore.
So this is what your ECM manifold looks like. You can see the test ports marked appropriately. The solenoid valves are from left to right, top row first; Brake control. Left forward. Left reverse. Override. Right forward. Right reverse. So now you can try and troubleshoot by swapping around the four direction control solenoid valves. Don't worry about the brake or override valves as they affect all directions and so aren't relevant to your problem.
So you recommend swapping the left front and right front?
Yes, if the left and right tracks act differently going forward, swap the solenoid valves and see if the problem goes to the other side. You can exchange them forward, reverse, left, right, (they're all the same part) to see if you can pinpoint if one of them is faulty. I suggest that every time you change something, you write down what you did and what effect it had. It's easy to forget what you did three moves ago and confuse yourself.
Well I switched the front left and the front right solenoids, tried it and it still turned left, then I swapped the front left and front right solenoid valves, and put the original solenoids back on the valves, still turns left, should I bother trying to swap the reverse one in? It only does it going forward not reverse.
Did you unscrew the complete valves from the manifold or just switch the coils? If you switched the complete valves and it made no difference then I'm going to say, cautiously, and without being there personally to experience it first-hand, that it sounds like one of the pumps has the swash plate not centering properly. This would mean a pump teardown/repair. My next move would be to take an oil sample from the hydraulic system and cut open and inspect the hydraulic filters.
Swapped the coils first, and then the valves. I had oil samples taken not more then 50 hours ago. It did this when it had the oil samples taken, hydraulic is separate from the Trans on the 973's. View attachment 135357 View attachment 135358
Which one is which? 165ppm iron is huge for a hydraulic system and the other sample at 31ppm is also high.
If I remember correctly top is the hydraulic, bottom is final drive. The hydrostatic came back with no problems at all. Most of the hours I've put on my machine have been idling and moving it around, then trying to calibrate the track speeds. At most I've put 30 hours or so of actual work. I should get another sample of the hydraulic done then your saying?
Another sample won't hurt. Oil sampling is all about building up trends, one sample in isolation is of limited usefulness.
This repair has gone over my head, the next step would be to get a certified mechanic to come inspect the machine, or what would you suggest ?
You would need someone experienced in Cat hydrostats. Troubleshooting these can blow out the labour bill pretty quickly. Even if you get the dealer out, it isn't guaranteed that the individual they send will have relevant experience. If you do decide to call the dealer, politely make it known that you don't want to be paying for someone's on-the-job training.
Yes I contacted the dealer tonight but I missed their hours by a hair. Going to try again tomorrow, hopefully they have someone familiar with hydrostatic units, if not I'll have to find a reputable shop. Thanks for the help. I'll keep everyone posted.
Don't get the wrong impression. I'm not saying to refuse the dealer's help if they don't have a top gun hystat man. Everyone has to learn at sometime and if their man isn't familiar with the machine, have patience while he studies the problem then negotiate on the bill.
One sample (attachment 135537) is of an SAE30 oil, no idea if it's transmission. The analysis has 131ppm of silicon and 36ppm of aluminium in it. This indicates major dirt entry into the system at some point, maybe in a previous life, who knows..? Either way the system needs to got up to full operating temperature and completely flushed, and oil & filters changed ASAP. Depending on what system it is it doesn't necessarily have to be flushed with the same oil as is in it right now. The other sample (attachment 135538) is an 0W-20 oil. This sample analysis had 36ppm of silicon and 16ppm of aluminium plus a trace of water. Again dirt entry, but not on the scale of the first one. I'm not familiar with lubricant viscosities used in your neck of the woods but would hazard a guess that SAE30 is transmission and 0W-20 is hydraulic. Please confirm. I will have to dig into my oil analysis files to check on what are the limits for a 973C. Off the top of my head I have no idea. I note that these sample analysis are from May this year. Has the oil and filters in the 2 compartments been changed since then..? If the answer to the above is yes then my first move would be to take another sample from both compartments and get the results before calling the dealer tech out to take a look.
Called the dealership, service guy is going to do some research on my problem and get back to me.
I'm unaware of what the weights were when I bought the machine, I have changed the hystat over to cat hydo10. I forgot to change the hydraulic actually, I did change the hystat when I changed a hose. I will be changing the hydraulic soon. Can I use an AW 32 oil for a flush, I don't believe it meets cat specs. But can I drain my fluid, fill with this cheaper stuff, cycle my hydraulics get to operating temp no working it on that fluid, but then on the last fluid change put in a 10w. Because all hydraulic oil I can find that meets cat spec is all $125+ a 5 gallon pail. This oil I found on sale is. $45 per 5 gallon pail, would cut flush cost, and allow to flush more fluid out for the price.
Someone must have stated what the oil type was when the samples were pulled for analysis. The laboratory won't just fill in the oil viscosity "box" with whatever they think it is - because what the lab in fact does is to compare the measured viscosity of the supplied sample with the known viscosity of the type of oil listed on the bottle. As an example Mobil Delvac MX 15W40 engine oil has a quoted viscosity of 15.5 cSt @ 100C. So if you put Mobil Delvac MX 15W40 as the oil the lab will compare the measured viscosity of the sample with 15.5 as part of the process to determine their recommendations. As a comparison within the same brand Mobil Delvac 1300 15W40 engine oil has a vicsosity of 14.65 cSt @ 100C. So as you can see there are differences even between different oils of allegedly the same viscosity from the same manufacturer. It's super important to give the correct information right down to the last detail about what oil is in a compartment otherwise it's impossible for the lab to make good recommendations. AFAIK AW32 hydraulic oil is an equivalent of the SAE10W hydraulic oil that Cat recommends for use in the hydraulic system, the viscosity is certainly the same. However the performance of different brands of oil will vary widely. Any oil that comes from a reputable major oil company will be fine, oil that comes from Joe Blow's Gas & Groceries slightly less so...... If you want to flush a system then the cheapest available oil will do fine. Flushing contaminated final drives I've even used a combination of 10W/AW32 hydraulic oil and diesel to get the cr@p out first then refill with the correct grade of oil once everything is clean. I can't stress this enough - you DON'T necessarily have to buy Cat oils because there are plenty of alternatives out there that meet the Cat spec and are just as good performance-wise. Here is what I think you should be using in your 973C for the Canadian climate, although I would welcome comments from others who have more experience of this type of ambient temperature. In brackets is the ambient temperature range for machine startup from cold under which the oil will function. Engine - SAE5W40 CI-4 or CJ-4 (-30 to +40) - Use the same oil for the track rollers and idlers, it covers the temp range -35 to +40. Final Drives SAE30 TO-4 (-25 to +25) - Use the same oil for the recoil shaft compartment and the pivot shaft bearings Hystat & Hydraulic System - SAE10W (-20 to +40) Pump Drive Gearbox - SAE10W30 engine oil (-20 to +40) Equalizer Bar End Pins API GL-5 75W90 (-30 to +40) Use the same oil for the track pins and bogie cartridge pins. One thing to note is that the temp limits above are not hard & fast. If the machine has to be started from cold in ambient temperatures lower than those listed above that's fine so long as it's warmed up carefully before putting it to work. I think the first thing to identify before going mad and draining oil willy-nilly is exactly which compartment those 2 oil analysis reports you posted before refer to, then a plan can be created going forward.
Got off the phone with the shop, they said its in my best interest to bring it in, so i don't have to pay travel fees. Would be cheaper to get it hauled in then pay them a couple times to come out. Like the guy said on the phone, we can send out a tech, but no guarantee he can fix it. Plus if he needs a part, he's gotta drive in and get it and come back out. If i brought it in, they can have everyone there in the shop, so everyone's knowledge can come into play if the tech/mech gets stumped, and not charge me a travel fee to get the knowledge
I appreciate your sentiments in sending it to the dealer for long-term diagnosis but you could save yourself a large chunk of coin by changing oils & filters yourself before you send it to them rather than pay $100+/hour labour charges and Cat lubricant prices for the dealer to do it. However at the end of the day it's your money you're spending.
Not sending it to them to change the fluids. I will be doing that myself, it's too easy to do them. I'm going to send them the loader to try and solve my problem with the tracking, why it turns left when i slow down. I'm going to wait until i find a back haul, or if the neighboring colony will lend me their trailer. http://shorelinelubricants.com/product/Hydraulic fluid-infotech.pdf there is the oil i am going to flush with, it wont cause any problems just flushing it through the system will it? It's only $39 a 5 gallon pail. What's the best way to flush the hydraulic system? Total the hydraulic system holds is 42 gallons, but the tank only holds, 15.8, so if i just drain the tank, i still have 62% of the old oil in the system, i don't know how to do the math to figure out if i refill and drain again to see how much percentage is left if i drain and fill again.
That oil will be fine for flushing. It meets enough major hydraulic pump manufacturers' specs (Denison, Cincinnati, Vickers) to be more than good enough for what you want to do with it. When it comes to changing the oil I see your problem. You can either do loads of changes or try to get more of the oil out of the system by draining oil from components like lines and cylinders, etc. Messy & labour intensive but it'll do the job in one hit. If you just drain the tank then as you point out you will only have put 38% of the total capacity of new oil into the system. Excercise the machine well then drain the tank a 2nd time and the figure goes up to 61% of the 42 gallons being new oil. Do the same procedure again and change the oil in the tank a 3rd time and the number goes up to 75%. To get to that point will have cost you almost 48 gallons of oil, more than the total system capacity. After that it rapidly becomes the law of diminshing returns. I think I would be tempted to try to get as much oil out of the system as I could the first time around by draining cylinders, lines, etc. Keep a track of how much in total you managed to drain, then the 2nd time round I'd just drain the tank and call it a day after that. There is a procedure for cleaning a contaminated hydraulic system (after a pump or motor failure) that would probably work well in your circumstances even though you haven't actually had such a failure. It's form Ref REHS1510 and I'll send you a copy if you drop me a PM with your email address. I would also suggest that instead of using the standard 1R-0722 (33 micron) Hydraulic filter element after changing the oil you should temporarily install a 139-1536 (6 micron) Element and run it until it plugs or 50 operating hours, whichever comes first. If it plugs in less than 50 operating hours replace with the same 139-1536 and continue until the 6-micron element can reach 50 hours without plugging. At that point you can revert to the 1R-0722 Element that is called out in the Parts Manual. While you're in the tank replacing filters also replace the 9H-6454 Seal that fits in the tank cap. Money well spent because the cap is supposed to seal tight in order to pressurize the pump suction when the hydraulic oil gets hot.
If the place had any oil left its all sold out, shoot. I was afraid of draining the system and getting air pockets in everywhere and chasing air locks. But you are right I should drain as much as I can, deal with the mess and time, save money in the end and get more oil out. For how much I use the machine on the farm(not having a low boy to move to jobs) the 6 micron filter will last a long time, I'll probably buy two and replace it with another one after just to be sure. I have a feeling the dirt was coming through the cap in the first place. It defiantly wasn't as tight as I wanted the seal to be.
Although the cap appears to look as though it should be tightened by hand I always use something like a crescent wrench on it to get it good and tight. However nothing's going to seal correctly unless the rubber gasket under the tank cap's in good order. TBH I'd even replace the cap with a new one if I had any doubt whatsoever about its condition. Cap and seal together are only $17. Cap is a 5K-1658. You have mail BTW.
https://youtu.be/cHdR_22DqUU from when I took the video about my problem, I warmed it up by digging out a concrete pad.
Don't let that worry you. Before you first crank the machine up after draining the oil from everywhere fill the hydraulic tank right to the neck (ignore the sight glass) and leave the filler cap off. It's a 2-person job. Have someone monitor the oil level in the tank either by watching the sight glass or simply looking in through the hole in the top when you start up. Also have that person ready with a 5-gallon pail of hydraulic oil with instructions to lash it into the tank toute de suite if the oil starts disappearing rapidly out of the bottom. If the level still doesn't stabilise quickly enough then stop the engine, top up the tank and start up again once you have everything back under control level-wise in the tank. Repeat the foregoing process ad infinitum until you have expelled all the air from the system.
Well what's going on with your machine? Did you take it to cat to have them fix the steering issue?
Long cold winter, no snow, so no need to use it. I am going to have to hire a truck to come get my machine to take it in. I have had no luck finding a trailer for myself.
Keep us posted, I got sucked into your story and hope it all works out for you in the end. I have a 955L amidst other equipment and it's so stressful when something is wrong and you can't figure it out. The thought of having a dealer diagnose problems and fix them is the worst part of owning equipment! Best of luck to you brother and I look forward to hearing the outcome in the future.
Yeah I hope it doesn't cost me one of my trucks. I had purchased another duramax to run a slip tank in and use as a "company" truck type thing, but I think I'm going to have to sell it if the drive pump has to be replaced. I have to spend my money on a trailer first, then I can start earning money back.
I hope this doesn't bite you too hard. There will come a point when you will either have to find the money to pay the right engineer to get if fit for work so it can repay you what it owes you,sell it as it is,or park it up until you have the money to fix it properly . I have never sold one for this reason.
When I first made this post for you it was because I was at the mercy of others moving my 953's. It was a long hard road for me to climb the ladder to be able to have the freedom of movement. Not only that but how would you get it out if you stuck it? I decided that unless I own the ability to move it, I did not need that head ache. For the average guy moving a 953 is abut out of reach. I have not seen any work posted up that a 953 would not plow right through yet. I realize that you are past the purchase but think hard if it needs major repairs. You might be better with something easier to move and handle.
Yes, I have been putting off taking it in. I should've done it during the winter so it would be ready to go right now. But procrastinators always fall behind. I have been so busy with working on snowmobiles, trucks, and cleaning up the farm that I haven't gotten around to it. There's an auction coming up next two weeks for a low boy that is perfect for me. Hopefully I can afford it, win the oil prices low I hope it effected the market enough that I buy it. This is where being in Canada with large farms thousands and thousands of acres for each farm, we have equipment, neighbors have a 750 Deere dozer, and a 300(or larger can't remember) Deere hoe. Plus all of the 500+ horse tractors around, our terrain is flat, so there's nothing I will get myself into that will be impossible to get out. When the 953's are priced at $65,000-$100,000 a piece, and I spent half of that on my machine so far, and can handle larger jobs, I am happy with my purchase. The larger bucket has really come in handy for bulk work. Manure is endless a 953 would've taken twice as long. I'm not saying I wouldn't like a 953, but for the prices, I'd buy the 973c again. I have been in talks with the company my girlfriends little brother works for, they do new development construction, water lines, sewer systems and so on. They might be looking for a machine for the whole summer to backfill and dirt work. So I'm starting to get my butt in gear on it. Spring is upon us here, with temperatures well above freezing, I'll be firing up my thread again here with more work I'll be doing around the farm.
Work is always great to help offset all the costs. Once you can move the beast around on your own, you will be set. I'm not sure if you would need a 3 axle trailer or if a standard double axle would keep you legal. I have a friend that was using a 953 putting in drain lines in a hay field down here. He hired a guy to run his machine and of course he got it stuck. 3 100 hp 4x4 case tractors could not move it. One week later and a d-8 drug it out. They ended up with mud in the motor due to the time frame it sat of course the hole filed with water. He spent a good bit of money in hiring the d-8 plus all the other effort. It would be curious to see what a 500 hp tractor could do with a 973. Either way it's always cool to see farm pics of any type ...
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-trucks/winnipeg/tri-axle-double-drop-non-detach-lowbed/1145940956 Anyone know anything about a 1958 King low bed? What is it rated for? Owner doesn't really know. But it's an affordable trailer.
Don't know anything about the trailer or the quality but that'd be one heck of a ride loading a 973.:cool2
Yair . . . CM1995 There must be something I'm missing mate, I don't quite get what you're saying? Cheers.
Saying it wouldn't be my choice of trailer for moving a '73, when the loader breaks the angle at the tail you'll be landing the idler on the first cross member between the rear tandems. Just my opinion but I wouldn't want to do that on a regular basis in great conditions not to mention mud or ice/snow.
Ya, I agree wouldn't be the best, but that beavertail looks like it would allow the track to load over the tire as well once you get weight on the rear of the trailer. And having a raised centre section is a little comforting for sliding sideways. Guy also said he has the flip down ramps which would help. That trailer is in my comfortable price range, but this is the one I would want to have if I pay twice the amount. https://www.rbauction.com/2006-BWS-...Id=8888294&id=ci&auction=SASKATOON-SK-2016543
Yair . . . Gotcha CM1995 . I have never had to contend with snow and ice but it looked a pretty nice setup to me . . . nine foot wide so they reckon and it has that raised centre section so nothings going to slide . . . very far. I suppose years of scrambling onto eight foot and a bit wide trailers like this made us a bit blasé. . . . . Cheers.
Detachable neck trailers are the Cats Meow as to loading safe just a pain ITA to connect/disconnect. We used Load King folding neck trailers as I last worked in the field, pricey but safe and excellent machines. In the old days we were on and off similar trailers as Scrub shows, Fontaine, Atlas, Timpte a few others and a lot of home mades all loaded from behind as well as scary as hell if a little moist or muddy with machines slipping sideways even when level. Good friend's brother died when a Deere 750 dozer side slipped UNLOADING, rolled to side and flipped him out then completed roll onto it's side, ROPS caught him mid chest and crushed him. SEAT BELTS!! USE THE DAMN THINGS! or set up side screens as the Aussies do.
King Trailers..........I believe they were manufactured in Woodstock, Ont (may have had other locations as well) in business until the late 80's or early 90's I think, which is a couple hours from me here in Southern Ont. They were a good trailer in their day & I remember pulling one in the 70's moving dozers & excavators. We recently purchased this tractor/lowboy combo & it seems to be a good fit for us. The trailer is a 55 ton unit. Both were a few years old & were purchased separately. I heard that some of the King employees got together to form the company (Sheltema Trailers) who made the one that we purchased.
Nice set up, I like the idea of having the hydraulic detach neck non ground bearing because you can change your ride height to clear road obstacles. That trailer I showed is still on the classifieds, I'm just unaware what the trailer would be rated for the owner said he wouldn't want to put my 60,000 pound machine on it. That's why I'm shying away from it.
Found another king trailer, this one is hydraulic detach triple axle, 8'6" wide with flip outs. Looks like a decent trailer got my dad to go take a look at it for me. Probably going to pick this one up. Price is alright, has a good safety as well. Now while looking for trailers I found a nice kenworth t800, with wet kit to utilize the trailer and not worry about a power pack motor starting or having the juice to lift. Trailer is red, and truck is red. Would look pretty slick together. Price for both are still under what most trailers are selling for.
Here's truck
Keep us posted as to how you make out with this potential purchase. Looks like a good heavy unit.
Well, settled on the price for the trailer. Just gotta go pick it up, tomorrow we are going to go look at a Case 9390 tractor to pull the air seeder, 425 hp with triples on it, might go look at the truck tomorrow as well.
Should be picking up the trailer Friday, it looks like your trailer metalman, just need to get a pup motor for hydraulics, that t800 guy won't keep in contact so not getting that one.
Got it home, and a set of my dads tires for his high clearance sprayer.
What is the capacity of the trailer? Looks like a pretty heavy unit.
Don't know exact number, but i got my dad to go get it for me, I'm on night shift. He said it sure pulled heavy. Guy said he thought 55 or 60 ton. I'm going to look around a bit more after I wash it for any more markings. It's kinda cold here today, -8 with 45 km hour wind gusts. Water would freeze the second I try and wash it. But I got what I wanted, non ground bearing, hydraulic detach, air suspension, and triple axle. Hopefully it pays off.
I think the trailer is a 50 ton. Went over the trailer, time to take the welder out and fix up some cracks. Then some cans of spray paint to try stop corrosion. I was surprised the lights worked at all on it, there was a hidden junction box under a plate in the front well, turns out there wasn't a cover on the top, and it was filled with mud and moisture. Had 12v at the neck plug, but only 8v on the junction box at the rear of the trailer, no wonder why the lights were dim, and the beacon wouldn't work. Also need to work out getting a power pack made up and hooked onto the trailer right away. I have a guy who contacted me interested to see what I would charge to strip a piece of land, 300 feet x 400 feet(2.75 acres). He said anywhere from 3" of overburden to 12" of it. Did some number crunching, that's moving anywhere from 1100 yards to 4450 yards of material. And taking the shortest path, dumping the over burden on either side, which would be a 150 foot distance at the longest. Top speed of 8 feet per second would be a 36 second round trip. At 4 yards a bucket(if at max production), it would take somewhere in the area of 275-1112 buckets of dirt, and at 36 seconds a pop. 2.75 hours to 11 hours. I think over estimating the travel time would give me enough leeway to compensate for the time it would take to dump, and to scoop up another full bucket. I was thinking of charging $225 an hour. The job is probably a 6-7 hour drive round trip. How would someone charge for the drive? Just the hourly rate? Or how does everyone else do it? I heard they are charging $160 an hour to custom haul equipment. So if I just charged that would that be okay for transport? Total it can be 8.75 hours-18 hour job. $960-$1120 for transport. At $225 an hour, if I charge hourly it would be $618-2475. So if I gave a quote of $1,600-$3,600? Or would that be too large of a ball park? Hard to say because the numbers he gave me were very broad. I'm not familiar with charging and calculating, everything I have done was not about a budget, it was a municipality job, tax money, so we just tried to do it right and make it last.
Take a moment to think about this job, your numbers are unrealistically low. You're going to haul a 973 3-3.5 hours one way, do the job and price it between $1,600 -3,600 total? For example, I pay $250-350 to move my 321 track hoe around my working area. That could be 4-40 miles depending on project location. Now I don't do much hourly work, it's mostly bid work but I price that machine out at $135 per hour plus mobilization in and out and a 15% mark-up to cover overhead and profit. So I would be between $500-700 for mobilization and say an 8 hour day at $135. Using the low mobilization number of $500, an 8 hour day and a 15% markup to cover overhead and profit, I would charge $1817 and be home at the end of the day. The 15% markup is on the total - mobilization and machine. The machine should be charged at a rate to make a profit on it's own which is included in my hourly rate. The mark up is for your time outside of the machine working - looking, figuring and pricing the job. There is also taxes, licenses, insurance, etc. Your hourly rate should cover the insurance costs to insure that machine individually, however you have to cover the GL, WC, licenses, etc. which fluctuate with the volume of work you perform and the areas you work in. For instance city business licenses in my area range from $50-300 just for the "privilege" to do work in their city. Sure you can skirt it for one job but if the license official drops by you'll be paying the license fee and a penalty. That may or may not be an issue in your area but it's a big source of revenue for the cities where I work. I've rambled enough, take a look at your actual costs to travel that far, perform the work and make a profit.
After I typed it all out, it sounded low, but I went through all the effort and said screw it and posted it anyways, after a night shift I thought I did well trying to think lol. I barely made it through that post. Around here things are totally different. I am not needing a city license at all. I'm from in the sticks basically, no license needed for a city. This would be my first job so I'm not sure what it would cost in fuel/time to move my machine, haven't had to yet. This is basically just a shot in the dark. Would it be safer to just say $225 an hour and how ever long it takes, it takes kind of thing? This may not be new to some, but I've been just an operator working for someone so I've never had to figure these kinds of things out.
If you actually have to bid it and you think it will take 10 hours add 20% to your hours. Figure your cost of moving in and out add 10% to that at least to cover your travel. Then take the total of that and add 25% for profit margin and you should be covered. Lots of variables involved , how far does the over burden have to be moved , stock pile or grade it out? I get underbid by other contractors a lot. But then you hear thru the grapevine they are asking for more money or threatening to pull off the job or don't show up at all. The way I look at it if I can't make a fair wage for the scope of the work performed , I will set in my lazy boy and watch Andy Griffith. Nothing worse than working and losing money.
Guy asked for an hourly rate, that's why I was trying to do the math to figure out how long it would actually take me. See if the total would be worth it or not.
Never did the job, just finished seeding, got my motor, hydraulic pump, oil tank, and connections ready to go, just need to fab up the motor stand and pump support to be able to mount it in the neck and get measurements for the hoses.
Working around a crappy work schedule, and rain... I finally got everything done, buddy has a plasma table, he built me a nice frame for the motor and hydraulic tank. I painted it up all nice black. Mounted my hydraulic pump underneath, the hydraulic tank beside, got all my hoses made up, built a pressure release valve. In other words went a huge distance to make it perfect. Fuelled it up. First fire up, and everything works. Gauge shows my pressure, ignition switch works, hydraulic tank is big enough. The trailer has a hydraulic leak on it where the quick connect fittings come out the front of the trailer beside the air/electrical connections. It should have a bulkhead fitting clamping it to the front of the trailer, but the guy didn't care and it wore through the connection and it has a steady leak when used. But I'm pleased with how it turned out. Have extra length in hoses though. Didn't need nearly as long as I got. Oh well. One thing that did upset me, I spent hours in prepping and painting the bracket, light sand blast to rough the surface up, brake cleaned, then Used wax/grease remover, wiped it all down, took it outside, sprayed on a nice even primer, looked good. Then I applied my paint, it went on alright, showed imperfections from wind kicking up crap and sticking to the paint. But anyways first time I fired it up, all the paint on the exhaust side of the frame looked like someone put a paint remover chemical on it. The paint literally separated from the primer, no adhesion at all. I wiped off the paint. I don't know if gas spilled on it, or gas fumes from starting the motor. I never dumped anything on it, the only thing that could've gotten it was exhaust or gas fumes. Oh well time to sand The crap down, and try paint it again I guess. Back to the trailer, I'm really surprised at how high you can lift it off the ground. I'm so glad I went with a non ground bearing. So much better design. Tomorrow I'm going to try and sand the paint down, and put another black coat on the area. Then I'll try and learn how to use the trailer the most efficient way. And do a test run with my track loader on it. My relief valve is set to 2000psi right now we'll see if it's enough to lift my trailer. 8.5 gpm is a perfect amount of flow. Not too fast, and doesn't drag the motor much. Hopefully my 12hp is enough.
https://youtu.be/d7zxBSkZ2Hw Forgot to put this on the internet form a while ago. Land owner who hired me was very impressed and surprised about how fast and effective I am with my machine. I ended up doing 1/8 mile of caragana bushes, levelled off probably 20 tandem end dump loads of dirt, three brush groups roughly 75'-80' round, and a large patch of poplar trees. All were pushed into piles and moved into the sloughs. He said he'll definitely have more work for me in the future. And when I did that job, I had people calling me the next day wanting work done. But afraid since I was in an accident in October my chiropractor has me restricted on operating. And now the weather is -30 I don't want to start breaking things, so going to just wait it out until I get the clear from my chiropractor. I'm guessing I am already lost out on work because I can't do them yet. But insurance said they may be able to cover my economic loss.
I checked out the video , its very tranquil. I was hoping to see that 73 pushing a load of **** all over the place.
Should've seen the one bush that was pushed, after it was knocked down rooted and stacked it was probably the size of mobile home. I was impressed. So was the guy getting the work done, and the neighbor who came out to snoop. I was giggling watching that pile of bush move about 150-200 feet in one push. Sure made good time in that! That 1/8 mile of caragana bushes turned into 5 huge piles of bushes lol. There was a few big trees in the rows as well. Picked up probably a 30 foot tall tree and balanced it in the bucket and could've drove around with it. Machine was still in full control. People were stopping on the highway beside where it was and watching. Probably never seen anything like that before in their lives. I have another video on the computer that continues the video I put on YouTube. Machine does end up pushing the entire pile with relative ease.
For those interested in the story. A drunk driver in a stolen car that was high on crystal meth blew a red light, and I was on my way to work. They were going 80km/h north, I was going 45km/h east, and I ended up facing west. And that was with my duramax, and full slip tank. So my lower back/hips aren't cooperating. Just glad the shotgun stayed in the back seat and wasn't used on me.
ippielb, I don't think that will buff out! Sorry to hear about your back/hips. Maybe you should have used the shot gun on them!
Been seeing a lot more meth head incidents down here in the US Midwest too. Local Concrete contractor got hit head on, on a hill side hard corner by a legal painkiller drug head. Gal driving the other direction came across centerline, he went for ditch but she got them anyway. Cops estimated her speed on a 40mph corner at close to 90mph, just stupid and no insurance high on oxycontine. Used to be in MO if you lost insurance or failed to continue insurance after buying tags they would come get them off your car, not so much anymore as seems too unenforceable, costs too much State Money so they pass that down to those involved in accidents thru their insurance companies.
Damn! Glad you're OK other than being beat up a bit, it could've been much worse.
Yeah, I'm afraid since it's a "no fault" province. Since the car was stolen and the guy was drunk, I have to pay my deductible. He has no insurance and I CANT sue unless he has criminal charges laid against him. There was 3 people in the car when the accident happened. All three bailed out and tried to run. One tried to steal a truck at a coffee shop on the corner. The driver made it across the street and collapsed on the sidewalk. He also stopped breathing in the hospital an hour and half or so after the accident happened. But now I'm without my work truck... had over ten grand in aftermarket into it, just put new tires on it, replaced all the brakes pins and bushings, 6 new bilstein shocks and the list goes on. Insurance never gave me close to what I wanted even after arbitration so I bought the truck back. Hopefully going to get my money back by parting it out or fixing. To find a 06' Duramax with all the aftermarket like I had on my truck will cost me over $26,000 at least. Not to mention trying to find one with the same mileage. 200,181km on it. Or 120,000 miles. The only way I can sue the driver, is after the police figure out who was driving, and if the person gets criminal charges against them. But then again, can't get blood from a stone. They probably have nothing to their name, and a person can't take from government cheques, only the government can take from the government.
My son was a passenger in a bad wreck that killed 2. His hip was completely dislodged and it broke the rear of his pelvis when the socket was pushed back thru it. He has signs of arthritis in it already , he is 18. Its likely he will need a replacement at an early age as well. It has become a legal mess as well. Back on point you may need physical therapy to retain full use of your hips. I'm unaware of how the law reads in your area , but unfortunately I have learned a lot about how it works here.
My situation is you can't get blood from a stone, criminals will stay criminals. He has anything it will go in someone else's name, only thing he can't hide is a cheque in his name. Both were First Nations, so if their reserve gets a payout from the government like they normally do. At least I'll get my share of that. If I sue. But on that note, I probably will sue because it is going to be in my favour, repeat offender, drunk, stolen car, drugs, on his person, and prohibited firearms. At least that way if he does get any money or possessions, I'll get my share for a long while. I'd hope anyways. Right now I can't do much at all. I try to get myself moving, stretching, keeping active, but I can't sit, stand, lay down for more then 5-10 minutes without it starting to hurt. I am lucky in the fact that i asked my insurance adjuster and care provider if I could continue on a vacation I had planned. And they are allowing me to go. So I get to try and relax and enjoy the heat of Cuba for a week starting on Wednesday. It's been -30 degrees here for the past week, and Cuba is +30 degrees without the humidex. I've been told the water is probably the best activity for me right now. And I hope to spent as much time in the ocean as I can. Being 25 years old now, I hope this isn't a life long injury. I had plans on renting a place in the mountains for the winter so I could go snowmobiling.
:wierdt Always wanted to use one of those! LOL Don't let the hip injury get you down. I have been there. destroyed mine when I was 15.(dirt bike) Got an artificial one when I was 17. That one lasted 26 years. Went in 3 years ago and had it replaced again. I have farmed and ran heavy equipment the whole time. I still ride snowmobile in the mountains, Montana, Idaho. still ride motorcycles. I think the key to keeping it working is to stay active and don't gain a bunch of weight. Water exercise is a great way to stay flexible and build strength. best of luck to you.
Thanks, I just got my motorcycle license during the summer this year. I got myself a 2008 Suzuki DRZ-400 kind of a mix of a dirt bike and street bike. I got the SM model with upgraded suspension and brakes. Stops on a dime. If you ride the mountains, you've probably heard of Revelstoke. I got a room there. Really impatient to get out there. I have 5 sleds right now, and cat use any of them. Hopefully my vacation and swimming helps me and gets more movement back down there and builds some strength. I don't have t worry about weight. Heaviest I've ever been was 190 and that was just before my accident. I've lost weight since. Lost muscle mass so I'm getting lighter. I'm also 6'3"
Just had lower back surgery myself. You listen to the docs as they are pretty smart. Warm ocean water, lots of SLOW stroke swims or just floats in the water, stretches especially the hamstrings so they do not drag on lower spine etc. I am in that same boat of exercise INCLUDING TONS or Km or Miles of WALKING, brisk pace, not stopping , going out 1/2 to 3/4(1-2km) mile at start then expanding to 1 1/2 to 2(3.5-5Km) and return will be amazed how well it feels and your body responds. Ice packs on those down times when it hurts or just aches.
Yeah we are going to walk to a reef that's like 3km away down a white sandy beach in tropical temperatures with the ocean right beside us. That's going to be the worst! Lol thanks for the pointers my chiropractor I see twice a week sometimes three times. He showed me a bunch of exercises and he gets me to snap crackle and pop, but usually when I'm getting up off the bench, my hips pop right back out.
Your hip is dislocating? When my son was in the hospital over his they would not let him leave until his hip stayed in place and the did a series of rotations and checked it numerous times with mri. He was in the passenger seat of a Camry that hit a 3/4 ton Chevy truck head on , the car was traveling about 80 mph the truck was about 30 mph , the truck was slowing to get away from the car. I felt like the DR released him a little prematurely. Meaning , he did not schedule any follow ups , 2 months after the wreck , he fully released him. I agree , the more active he is the better he moves. He has a noticeable limp as well , not terrible. My health insurance is paying on it and my homeowners may end up paying him a settlement as well. Its a nasty situation.
When he pops my hips, it feels a lot better, it's like it's slightly out of place, then he pops it, and then when I get back up it pops again, and then it feels like when your finger has to crack. Like it's got pressure on it. When I lay down I can on,y lay down for maybe ten minutes then it feels uncomfortable, and pressure on my hip at the front by your groin. Just want my leg to be pulled all the time basically. But not as a joke.
I am afraid you will need to see a orthopedic physician as your Chiro is doing you no favors just popping it back into 'place' or just popping it. I did that line of thought too when my back was aching and needed some what I considered quick relief. I had deeper issues than a chiro could 'fix' according to the ortho doc. I was lucky he had not done serious increased damage to my spine as the MRI showed I had dislodged stenosis pieces floating and chewing on the nerve bundles.
My thoughts exactly. You might have more going on then you know. Hopefully not , but it could be one that if it doesn't get properly treated you may have bad trouble later on.
I'd be really careful. A chiropractor was responsible for killing model Katie May with an apparent routine neck manipulation for a pinched nerve.
Listen to these guys. A real orthopedic specialist is worth their weight in gold. Had one look at my shoulder recently. I now have to decide how to proceed but at least I know what is going on in there.
L5 disk has a slipped forward on the S1 I guess... I have a track pad that has cracked all the way across. The length of the pad. E7018 rod and groove the crack?
Price a replacement pad and a set of bolts. It may be a good deal cheaper than your time and a box full of 7018.........
Even if do get it to weld reasonably would need to anneal the weld or it will stress fracture to either side of a weld when put into stress. I agree with Nige, buy a replacement even a used one at roughly same lifespan but always new bolts.
So, silly question, over the past little while I've used my track loader two three hours total, maybe 30 minutes at a time. But since its been a lot longer since I've used it last i cannot remember when this started happening. My machine will not lift, and curl at the same time. The joystick would be back towards me, and in towards me, to curl and lift. If i put the joystick completely in the corner, the exact 90 degree corner of travel, it will either lift, or curl, not both, and its depending on which position i came from. so if i was lifting(joystick back), and then try and curl(joystick to the left), so it would be lifting and curling at the same time. my machine will keep lifting but will not curl. So if i move the joystick a little more forward from the 90 degree corner, so it would give more power to the curling action. It will stop lifting, and only curl. I do not know if this is how it is suppose to be, i can't really remember 100%, like i said its been over 6 months since I've really used it. But every other machine I've used, you can curl and lift at the same time, and I'm accustomed to it. Since it's not another boring post, here's a picture of my machine i took tonight with my drone. I Moved that old wooden bin(to the right), from directly behind my track loader into the pasture, we are clearing a spot of junk to put up a 140x60 cold storage building.
Yours is a C series all electronic controls? If it is could be a cal issue, any codes? BTW, Nice looking grounds.
Nice looking machine , it is a hoss Cat for sure.
So I cleared that code, 079 168.04 which is system low voltage. It is not up on the display anymore and it was only a stored code. Not present. Going through my calibrations again fine tuning things, I cannot set the minimum track speed. It says going into sub mode 15, the trans light cannot be on, and mine is, and it also says in the instructions that the 168.04 code cannot be present. Even though I just cleared it, it appears that it is stopping me from calibrating the minimum track speed in forward gear, but not reverse. You guys have any ideas? Alternator light is on until I get the rpm to 1200rpm and then it turns off, and doesn't come back on until I turn the machine off. So if I go to 1200, the light goes out, and even if I lower the rpm below it after the lights off it won't come back on .
What is the actual battery voltage when you're trying to calibrate? You are running at full throttle, right?
Check your belt tension on the alternator then ALL the cable connections, then check the voltage at the Alternator output stud and at the batteries while at high throttle. If you have a weak connection will cause voltage drop, a bad cable will show out after all else is confirmed clean and tight by voltage drop across the cable(At high throttle and checked from end to end with a voltmeter) As little as 2v drop will drive the processer nuts as it tries to compensate, as will a weak ground or alternator output. Alternator at high idle should be making NO LESS THAN 13.9 and more like 14.2v output.
Unsure of what the actual battery voltage is. But I never thought I would have a problem because it always starts and always has good power to turn over. I just have to remember to switch off the master switch when I don't use it because there is a voltage drain somewhere when it's not charging. My track loader runs on a 24v system, so I'm assuming I would be looking for somewhere around 28v at the alt post. And still no loss of voltage from the cables. I will try and go through the cables and grounds as best I can as well the connections, I still can't bend the best and work on anything long because my back, turns out I slipped a disk L5 on the s1. And have problems with stiffness and mobility in my si joints, and the hip flexor muscles.
Forgot to mention, yes I'm at full throttle. I have tried numerous times from a fresh start to make sure I wasn't forgetting anything or didn't do a previous calibration wrong or something.
So you mean the trans light only comes on when you try to do the minimum speed fwd calibration? Have you done the engine off calibrations successfully?
Yes that is correct. I can calibrate everything BUT the minimum track speed in forward calibration. Sub mode 15. Everything else was completed correctly. I tried to go along without competing sub mode 15 to see if I could remedy it but it still wouldn't change after I came back to it. The only way the trans light comes on is when I enter calibration mode, it says once I've entered sub mode 15 it should turn off, but mine does not. And to fix the problem you have to make sure you do not have the 168.04 code present, so I cleared the stored code, that did not have the "serv" indicator present and the problem with the trans light coming on, and not having the ability to change submode 15.
When you're in submode 15, does the left(?) digit on the display move from 1 thru 6 in response to your moving the FNR in both forward and reverse? And if you go into submode 16 or higher, the light goes out? And does the 168.04 keep reappearing or has it gone for good?
Yes, the position of the control does change the position notification on the dash, both in forward and reverse gear. Can't remember if the light goes out when I go into Submode 16. I will have to check tomorrow if it's warm enough, just got a foot of snow two days ago and temperatures high of 0 degrees. When I cleared the 168.04 it never came back. I also tried to turn it off and turn it back on and when I scroll to the trouble codes there is nothing there. As well as when I go into the computer through the switches under the arm rest.
Well if there are now no logged codes, it doesn't sound like the light is coming on for an electrical fault as such. Without plugging it in to ET, it is difficult to say though. One thing I have noticed is that " the hydraulic oil must be warmed to a temperature of 50 to 60c in order to perform submodes 15, 16 and 17" Now it's feasible that the software could put the light on and refuse to calibrate if the oil is too cold, but I cant find it documented anywhere in SIS. It may be your problem though.
My bad on the voltage, just finished fighting my own pickup as to a bad cable, had the 12v system locked in my head.
I thought that was the problem as well and so I completely warmed up the machine did a little work and got it warm. Still was unable to calibrate submode 15.
27.5v at the alternator post at high idle. 27.2v at the battery post. 13.5v per battery 12.6v per battery with machine off. Cannot reach the end of the cables to test the cables right now. Submode 15-28 all have the trans light on when in the calibration mode. This is with out the machine at operating temperature. Usually when I leave the master switch on, the machine will have dead batteries in a week. This time I accidentally left it on because I had to rush into the city because my dad locked his keys in his truck and I forgot to turn the switch off. That was over 2 weeks ago. And the machine still started.
The fact that you've got no more logged codes makes me think your voltage isn't the problem. It looks like you're probably going to have to get someone with ET to see what's going on.
I agree, have eliminated most external issues.
Forgot to turn off the master switch and never used it for two months. Went to use it a couple days ago, and the batteries were dead. So i charged the batteries, started it up. And went to park the trucks that i used to charge each battery. Let my 973 idle at low idle while i did it. And when i got back from parking the trucks and walking back to the machine, there was an alarm going off, SERV CODE was illuminated. And the voltage light was on. Came up with the 0168.04, but as soon as i revved it up to 1200 rpm, the light went out, and the serv code went away. Appears the alternator is not charging at low RPM. But would that effect me from calibrating?
I think it is common for those to require a little rpm to engage the alternator. The 53C I ran was like that , the charging symbol would flash , give it a few rpms and it would go out. My 943 does it as well. Crank it up at low idle , if you let it set the alternator light flashes until you rev it.
Heres the latest thing with the machine. Cleaning out the creek bed in the pasture. Have a few more clips to come. Watch it in 1080p, i took the time to set up my good camera and mic so want you guys to watch it to make my effort worth while lol
looks to be a very capable digger I am jealous I don't have one lol.
Seems like you should have enough weight and power you could have pushed the amount you dug in 1 or 2 passes and saved a lot of time driving back and forth. It does take a lot of practice to be the most efficient though.
Yeah it hasn't skipped a beat really, just the little tracking issue and not being able to calibrate the minimum track speed.
I could've done the whole creek in one pass if the ground was consistent and straight. I was just trying to get set up more, get into a groove. Figure out my angles and the cleanest way. Sometimes smaller buckets make for a faster end result. Save some on clean up. I have done a lot in the pasture next time it's calm I'll take my drone up and get a picture. It's satisfying when I got a straight run and I could put the bucket down and just push. The bucket is the perfect shape and i got the dirt rolling in the curve. Making a tight 140 degree turn putting a slope on the sides made for interesting technique. I ended up moving the creek bed in the centre of the pasture more in one spot which the creek ran along the fence line and beside the road. So I think the municipality will be happy to see the creek moved over about 30 feet away from the road. I have close to 30 piles of dirt, all about 10-12 feet high. Unsure on what I'm going to do with it all lol.
Heres the video that starts up right as the first one ends. I have a few more I am going to upload. I am gone away for work for over 12 hours, so I only got a couple hours a day after work to try and do this. Took me three days to get between the dugouts done.
Here's a couple pictures of the work i did. The two dugouts are like 900 feet apart, i dont know how i would get the distance with all the curves and bends. But its a lot lol.
As you get used to and use it more the faster and more adept at it you will get.
It just looks like you aren't utilizing the size of the machine to advantage. You have a bucket that will carry well over 3 yds. and some loads aren't even a 1/4 of that. To me that translates to 3 times undercarriage wear, fuel consumption and time for the same job. I know you can't always get a full bucket but you can make more than 1 pass to fill the bucket before dumping. Most of my experience is with a skid steer but I think the same principles apply. If I'm digging a swale or a ditch, I could make 3 or 4 shallow cuts to get the shape I want and then carry a mostly full bucket to the dump pile. On my 1 yd. track loader, I replaced the undercarriage so try not to make unnecessary trips back and forth. I wouldn't want to have to replace the undercarriage on a 973!
A full UC replace is most likely around $16000
I'd put a u/c replacement on a 73 around 25 grand.
Did another concrete pad removal. Filled in the hole after as well.
Finally getting the moneys worth!
I have a carrier roller that has started to squeak. Curious if it’s worth it to replace the bearing, or just replace the whole roller. The whole assembly is $315+tax. Only squeaks when I go backwards, forwards it’s quiet, had someone look for me and they say it wobbles a bit in reverse.
Are you sure it's the carrier roller? Quiet FWD/Noisy REV can be an indication of idler problems.
Put a jack between track frame and rail, lift the rail from the roller and see if binding or excess play, look for oil or grease around the seal region as they will leak away the lube.
I’ll try that. Had someone stand outside machine and check for me.
Yeah I double checked by jacking up the track and spinning the idler, there’s nothing there that would even resemble a bearing. I’m guessing the shaft is probably worn, and the face where the race is sitting is damaged. Guessing it’s going to be just replace it. Maybe cat has a used one.
Much of the time replacement is easiest and not any more expensive.
So there’s two part numbers, and the cat parts guy said the $445 one is a genuine cat product, and the $315 is a jobber. They never had the cheaper jobber, so I ordered it. With the other rollers being around 40% I didn’t see a point in spending an extra hundred bucks. They never had a used one I’m afraid.
Finally got around to replacing it, was worse then I expected lol. When I took it off. It was a two part removal, I’m glad it didn’t come apart while on my last job. It started to squeak after I was done walking it over a mile to another Bush on a different section of land, probably a mile. Thought it was a rock caught between the front idler and support. Got out checked couldn’t see anything. So I carried on. I could still catching the squeak if I paid attention. Worked for a couple hours, then walked it back, scared I was going to run out of fuel lol. I was also having problems with a pin wanting to come out of a tooth. And I would have to stop every fifteen minutes or so and knock it back into place. So I took the time to take the teeth off, clean everything up. And found the pins are very pitted and are loose, the retainers barely hold onto them, and they’re the old style retainer. The teeth have a lot of life left in them, so I couldn’t justify buying new teeth, I’m going to build up the shanks a bit to make them tighter, and the one tooth on the bottom I’m going to add a couple passes to bring it up to the others level. The side adapters for the outside corners of the bucket wobble and move quite a lot. So I bought new $20 bolts, and $15 nuts for them. And I’m going to build it up to make them tight again. Might be easier to just add a piece of 1/8 steel to the bottom of the adapter itself and weld it in place. But I’m going to see after I put the new bolt it, weld up the bolt hole and drill it out again to see how much play I will actually have.
One handed, but gives an idea.
The 955L's were quick and nimble... makes me smile just thinking about it.
Yes they were, earlier ones were pretty well bulletproof. Had a customer years gone by would not decel to shift F-R would hand stand it on idlers or sprockets, that machine outlasted him. Believe it was a K though.
There seemed to be a whole cadre of hands who did that... it was faster I reckon, if you were loaded up with trucks. It always seemed a little on the abusive side to me particularly with the 77's. After you got the hang of it it wasn't too bad , slacking the throttle before the shift probably lost a second or so. Although I did have a little envy for the International hands and their decelerators
Allis did as well, even my old 70's HD7G has a decelerator.
In my neck of the woods there have been many miles of terraces built with 977's equipped with dozer blades. Terrace building is mostly done in short pushes (20-40ft). I'm sure there were some that idled them back to shift F-R but all the operators that I know of shifted F-R at full throttle, including myself. I tried to do most of my shifting while turning. To me it seemed like by applying one brake put a bit of a load on the machine which seemed to result in a smoother F-R shift. Just my $.02
Looking at post #309 it appears as though the centre tooth adapters are so worn I'm amazed the teeth stay on them. There is an obvious wear lip at the back end of each adapter where the teeth have been rubbing against it. It would appear that the adapters need some building up while you're at it with the welding machine on the bucket.
I actually just did this today, took me a 10lb box of rods. And about 8 hours. The shanks for the teeth have been built up before I can see. And the teeth themselves are worn open I can tell. I got them snug, but still a little bit of up play in each direction. 1/8” of play probably. Over time they’ll pound out the high spots and probably turn into 1/2” play I’m guessing. New pins and retainers are nice, I won’t be scared of losing teeth anymore. I was having serious problems with one pin wanting to come out, every time I’d push, roots would get between the blade segment and the tooth and push it out. Now all I have to do is take the side corner adapters off, replace the bolt, build up the hole in the sidewall of the bucket and see how much play. Then build up the adapter to make it snug. I’m debating on welding the adapter to the bucket in a few places. To keep it in place. Not permanently weld it to the bucket but more so like a spot weld, 2” beads in a few places, so if I have to I could still cut the welds to remove the adapter.
And by no means am I a professional welder, just learning as I go on the farm lol I used 7014 rods, and found that the slag came off super clean. Usually just hit the adapter with a hammer and most would fall off in big clumps. 145 amp and it would burn into the adapter nice but wouldn’t pool and dribble. I had two angle grinders, one with a wire brush, the other with a thinner grinding wheel. I’d hit the adapter with the wire wheel, then weld the adapter up. And then knock off the slag with an air hammer with a needle scaler on it. Didn’t know where my slag pick was, and it got into the little crevasses fast I will add lol. I’d take the tooth and slam it on the adapter trying to skuff up where it would be hitting the adapter, then I’d grind off the high points and test fit it a few times and do touch ups. On the sides, and underneath, I found I couldn’t go uphill at all for the life of me. Not a chance. It kept running and dribbling, took some work with the grinder I’m telling ya. Not to mention the craters I’d leave that i would have to fill Then after the first tooth adapter, the second one I got a little better, and by the third one I figured out that going downhill, and making a wider bead, it would be WAY more controllable. The 4th tooth was straight forward I had my method down, and from then on it was technique. First couple teeth took me an hour each. By the last two teeth I did them in what felt like minutes in comparison.
Are you using an old AC welder? 6014 works better on straight polarity and pushing into the puddle working them basically in fairly rapid circles helps the puddle to freeze before it falls away. I prefer 7018 as to ductile strength and better erosion resistance, for that matter hard facing may work as well for build up on those tooth supports.
Ah well, the jobs done with 7014 now. I’m sure it will last as long as the teeth do. And then when I get new teeth i’ll Do 7018 or look into the hard facing. A guy at my work told me about hard facing and that it makes a ugly mess into blobs when it burns off the rod. I can’t say I’ve ever seen or used it.
What would be the best is build up rod. Similar to what they use on rollers and idlers. It's softer than hardfacing and is often used to build up parts prior to hardfacing. The big advantage is that it doesn't mushroom or spall. http://www.esabna.com/us/en/products/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.product&productCode=V410021
No idea where I could even buy those. I’ll look into it for next time I have to do any building ups
Tomorrow I might tackle the side corner adapters, depending on the weather. It was -30 again today here with the wind and tomorrow was looking like something of the same. So far, plan is to remove the existing bolts. Then try install it right away with the new bolts and see how much play I have. Figure out if I can just fill the hole in the sidewall to snug up the bolt. Or if it would be better to just fill the hole completely and then cut the new holes out where the adapters will be tight. What’s everyone’s view on tack welding with a couple inch long beads in a few places to help it stay put? Am I wasting my time and possibly causing more harm then good?
Once the corner adapters come loose, the mating faces wear away and trying to keep them tight with the hardware is futile. You have three options; Replace and/or build up the bucket cheek plates and install new adapters. Weld the adapters on solid. Live with it. I would probably go for option 2. It sounds sketchy but the reality is when a bucket is so worn that things are coming loose, you have nothing left to lose. If in the future you get to the stage where your welded-on adapters have worn away to nothing, the bucket will be at the stage where its only salvation will be a new lip and cheek plates and a couple of days work with a 300 amp mig welder.
I can tell the bolt is going to be worn where it goes through the sidewall of the bucket. And the hole egged out. So I’ll probably end up removing the old hardware. Rmeove the adapter, weld up the hole solid. Then test fit the adapter, build up the adapter to fit snug on the bucket. And then put the adapter on, mark the holes, cut new holes out with the torch, smooth it all out and then reinstall with new hardware, and then weld the adapter in a few places to the bucket. The centre adapters in the bucket are all welded to the bucket in 4 places. And they held up very well. Wonder why they never did the corner adapters. I can see they were built up on the inside a bit as well. Which is odd, because the bucket is in great shape. Not thin anywhere, not worn oddly. Or cracked anywhere.
Finally got a nice day, and time when I wasn’t working to do the corner adapters on my bucket. The bolts were probably 2/3 of the original thickness when comparing to the new bolt. I put the new bolt in and it was almost enough where I wanted to just say screw it and weld the adapter to the bucket. But I did it right and built up the sides, and underneath to tighten it up before I even put the bolt in. Not gonna brag about how efficient I was though, to do both sides it took roughly 7 hours from start to finish, machine brought over tools out, till tools away and machine put away. Side note, i was having problems with my batteries slightly draining, easy fix, bought a solar panel large enough to put out 24v in the sunlight, at a lower amperage. Hooked it up to the battery directly and leave the panel in the cab pointing toward the sun. Like having fully charged batteries every time, even after not starting it for a few months of -40...
Did a few things recently, dug a hole to burry a dead cow, pushed manure, and yesterday I took it an hour away and dragged a grader out of the Bush I bought at an auction. After I did that, I dropped the track loader off at Finning Cat to get the tracking issue fixed once and for all. I also noticed that the one final drive was weeping, so I checked the oil and it was pressurized and filled right up with oil. I’m guessing the drive motor output shaft seal went and is leaking into the final drive hence the pressure and extra oil. They’re going to have to do that for me too... no way I can man handle that drive motor out myself.
Took it to the dealership to get the drive motor looked after, and the tracking issue, since I do not feel comfortable playing with a 600 pound egg... I have no where clean enough, and concrete enough to remove it, and no knowledge of how to do the seal. Boy did I get one heck of a phone call from them after some trouble shooting... $42,000 quote... supposedly lots of brass in the filter. Wanted to pull both drive motors. Cab and both pumps to make sure contamination wasn’t an issue. Told them to send picture of the cut out. Machine has had previous work on it so maybe something was missed and it ended up in the filter. If anyone remembers when I bought it I got oil samples done and there was nothing wrong with the hydrostatic, and I haven’t put 200 hours on it yet. And there has been no change of temperament of the machine since I bought it. Well they never had the oil filter so they just tipped it over and tried to see what was inside, that’s where they got idea of brass. Now today they had a new filter and they cut my old one open. There’s not much brass in there at all so maybe my big quote will change. I told them to go ahead with pulling the drive motor and tear it down. That will give me indication on what else has to be done, wether it is failed catastrophically and I need to pull everything else. I can only hope it’s nothing serious. Took them almost 3 weeks to even touch it.
Ask them to take another oil sample and compare the results to your earlier one.
They gotta pull the drive motor regardless to get that seal for the output shaft seal, but I will get another sample done. Give me a better indication.
Got word on my track loader, they pulled the drive motor, never found anything wrong other then the output shaft seal. Checked it all over when disassembled. Found the tracking issue was due to the pumps being way off on pressures, no synchronized. Guessing when the remans were put in they never got adjusted after break in? Just my speculation. Only 4,400 hours on them. But also found two leaking hoses, so replaced them while they’re in there and the tank is empty. Bill is less then 1/4 of what they originally quoted me.
Don’t know how often any of you guys get to see big machinery. But here’s a 988 loader, a D11, and then my 973 beside both of them. Stopped by the dealership today, seen my bill got my paperwork, asked about getting a third valve put on to run a ripper or a tow behind. Going to get me a quote. Was thinking about renting a drainage tile implement. Have a few big sloughs that don’t drain, maybe even look at finding a used ripper for it. Would be handy to have if I find more Bush removal jobs
Have seen rippers on loaders, not sure how well they do with the short grousers, seen more on dozers where the grousers are tall!!
I use to run a track loader at work for a season that had a ripper on the back of it. The shanks on the rippers are miniscule in comparison to the 8’s so not much effort to pull them through the dirt. Here’s a video of me using it. The sound is coming from the vibration in th cylinder on the one side. I pumped a full tube of grease into the thing while moving it up and down and the screeching would not stop. But having the extra weight from my machine vs the 755k I ran at work. And being able to grab a bucket of material for added weight and traction, i’m Not too too worried about traction being an issue. If you’re wondering about only running two shanks in the ripper, found that with three it would pull the asphalt along rather then cut through it.
Really depends on what substrate you will be working and how deep you need to work, if need to break up deep soil compaction renting a dozer with longer/heavier shanks will be a world cheaper than running over the same area repeatedly.
No problems with hard soil, more so just rooting land, and then like the video, only the top layer of asphalt or concrete. But after pricing out the third valve and install, it’s upward of $15,000 for the third valve, install, hoses, and control. I was starting to think of even just having the hoses run to the back and be able to run an implement might be more beneficial.
Cheaper to rent a dozer with a real ripper for what you are looking at in costs not to mention the extra maintenance if you use it hard enough.
There’s no way I’d spend that kind of cash to put one on. If it was closer to 5 grand I’d do it. But I should be able to go get my machine from cat Monday. Weird thing about the 973c units. You cannot curl your bucket back and lift up at the same time. It was designed to close off the lift valve when you start curling, who’s the idiot engineer who put that in...
Install some 12 or 24 volt diverter valves for a few hundred dollars and use the same control as your bucket tilt. Install the valves as close to the control as possible and plumb to the back from there. Just need a switch to go back and forh between the two.
What’s the reliability with diverted valves this large?
Now THAT'S a Hoss!! Makes that 973 look like a timker toy!! By the black slime on the truck frames coal yard tractor. As to the diverter valves, should be a block assembly and will have as much flow in either direction but only in either direction. I have seen them placed on other machines, not on a Cat as yours and lived as long as I knew the machines.
May wish to see if Nige will chime in as to Power Beyond ports on the existing valve block, may be able to set it up easier than expected if does have, and if adding a CAT third valve is a choice could be that easy.
Yeah, my local cat dealership got the tender to rebuild all the d11’s that work in the coal mines in BC for teck coal. They take the blades off and ship them 900km here to be rebuilt. Each machine gets rebuilt twice and then sold I believe? I have a few buddies that work for them in Elkford BC. Funny part is that the d11’s are the smallest machines up there. Other then the 16m’s. They just got a big Komatsu wa1200 loader when I went on a mine tour.
Something is wrong with your machine if it won’t curl and lift at the same time
I thought the same thing, but cat designed only one function at a time.
I suspect this has to do with Cylinder sizing for the capacity of the 973 and the available flow/pressure off the hydraulic pump. Most likely a method to preclude premature starvation failures and/or complaints of Sluggish/slow hydraulic operations. Get too much pump that can handle the flow/pressure demand and the heat builds pretty quickly in no load bypass.
I own a few 973’s I have been running one for 36 years I’m operating one right now as we speak they all lift and tilt back at the same time that’s how you load the bucket By lifting the bucket while Your tilting so you don’t spin a track
With narratives like that, if they did a lot of reading they need to cite the publication and page number so people can go read it for themselves. Just like if you are claiming a building code says something, cite your source. It is not that hard to do.
Here we go: " When the tilt control lever is moved to the TILT BACK position, pilot oil is sent to chamber (15) and tilt valve spool (16) moves upward. Oil from the main pump is sent from inlet passage (12) to tilt spool (16). Movement of tilt spool (16) has now blocked the flow of oil to passage (14). Oil flow is directed to load check valve (11) . The load check valve prevents reverse oil flow which can cause cylinder drift or load loss. Load check valve (11) does not open until the oil pressure becomes greater than the force of spring (10) and the head end pressure of the tilt cylinders. The oil opens the load check valve, flows through passage (8) and out passage (7) to the head end of the tilt cylinders. This causes the bucket to tilt back. Oil from the rod end of the tilt cylinder flows through passage (6), around tilt valve spool (16) and through passage (1). The oil continues to flow around lift valve spool (13) and through outlet passage (9) to the hydraulic tank. As the oil from the rod end of the tilt cylinder bypasses the tilt valve spool and the lift valve spool, the TILT BACK and RAISE operations are prevented from occurring at the same time. When tilt valve spool (16) is in the TILT BACK position, no pressure oil flows to lift valve spool (13). The lift circuit is inoperable. "
interesting never set foot in a 973 but i have ran just about every thing else in the cat line at one time or another.the 73 must be the only one built that won`t work as it should
I don't know anything about Cat track loaders. But I have operated a few backhoes and noticed something similar with boom and crowd. When you pull one full the other ceases to function, can't remember which. My hands remember when I am doing it. My solution is to run the RPM a little faster and operate each valve at a partial position so that they are both getting some of the oil. I think my dad once said it is done this way for a reason, to keep them moving in kind of a floating scenario. Could this be what is happening with you guys that lift and curl at the same time, that you are operating the valves partially? I always wondered why they don't feed the oil that is coming out of the first cylinder on down the line to the inlet of the next valve, so that they both work under series flow.
If you put your lift lever in the lockout position hoist up and go into a pile you can still tilt the bucket up and down to load it and the hoist will continue to raise My guess is you have a weak hyd pump which is easy to test
Yeah just like I thought, hence why I told them to try and fix it. And they looked into it, find a C model 973, and let me know what you experience. That’s what they think too, unsure why it does, I’d much rather have the ability to jack the cab up, and do both functions as once but that’s life. That is not correct if the valve is designed to close off the lift circuit when curling that’s what it’s going to do, absolute worst idea if I’ve ever seen one.
Maybe it gives maximum roll back pressure not to have any oil diverted to the lift cylinders. I have a much smaller 931B and the roll back has a lot more power than the lift. A 973 being able to dig into much denser piles might need all the roll back power it can get.
It seems to me reading the O&M Manual that there is a detent system where the Lift control can be pulled into the "Raise" position and it will stay there until either it's manually pushed back to the Hold position or until the lift arms reach the level at which the kickout operates. Is that correct..? If so then I would suggest that filling the bucket is a similar process to that on the big wheel loaders where the modus operandi is to pull the Lift lever into the "Raise" detent as soon as the bucket is well into the pile and then feather the Tilt lever between the neutral and tilt back positions as the machine slowly moves forward. Every time the Tilt control returns to neutral the hoist will raise slightly. Keeping sufficient down pressure on the front end using the hoist function avoids tyre spinning on a wheel loader, I assume it would avoid track spinning on a track loader in just the same way. I think this is what Fri973 was suggesting above.
Set your bucket flat on the ground and put the throttle at maximum and pull your hoist lever all the way back and hold it until it goes all the way to the top and stops if your pump is good that should take between six and seven seconds if your pump is weak it will obviously take longer over 10 seconds is really bad you need to replace the cartridge
I’m going to go pick up my machine today, got two people interested in getting work done. I’ll let you know what my machine does with that Fri973
As an additional comment you should have the oil in the hydraulic system at normal operating temperature (<65 DegC) before doing that test. If the oil temperature is too low the cylinder cycle time will be on the high side. Tilt cylinder cycle time from full dump to full tilt back should be around 2.5 seconds.
Thanks for the additional numbers. Got the machine home. Didn’t feel like taking the chains off the bucket and warming up the hydraulics on the trailer. Might be able to do a couple jobs this week so i’ll Wait until I’m in the field.
Never been on a 73, but a lot of time on 43's, 53's and 63's, all with joysticks (very few two/three - lever machines here). Never had any trouble lifting and crowding at the same time, but I can't see any need to lock the lift into the detent position. Out of interest, Why would anyone spec separate levers for each function over joysticks? I started out when there were still a lot of Traxcavators and Drotts about, and never got why Cat took about twenty years longer than International to fit a joystick.
I agree ih100. Cannot stand a two lever loader, I can run it but not like a joystick.
Allis actually joy stick controlled the 7Gb and the 12G when FIAT merger started in around the mid seventies. Using the older valve bodies were pretty clumsy. Mine came two stick, has a home spun joystick set up now.
fwiw my op nothing worked better than cats 2 lever push one pull one set up
Might be a personal preference but I started out on Traxcavators in the '70's and I can see no advantage in pulling one lever to lift and pushing the other to crowd which meant using two hands or lift-crowd a bit-lift-crowd a bit more with one hand. Also over here most were three-lever as most of ours had 4 in 1's. Mind you, JCB fitted three levers to their 110 machines and how they operated made the Cat levers seem pretty easy. Going to start a debate here, perhaps, but IMHO the best balanced crawler loaders were the "B" series 953 and 943's, closely followed by the UK built International 100B's (the last one as long as productivity wasn't the main criteria).
Well, job only took me 3.5 hours and was light work. More so trying to make it look pretty then anything. And as far as the two lever system, i have ran multiple two lever loaders. And the one that threw me for the biggest loop was the last one I ran, a 963d with the bucket curl lever being backward. Push it forward to curl, and pull back to dump. It took a day or two to get use to it but man, that system was slick, I felt more comfortable at a faster pace, and the repetitive dumping on trucks was so much easier. Pull back on the right stick to lift the loader arms, and then pull back on the left stick to dump. It also let you return to dig on the bucket tilt both ways. So if you were tilted down, you could slap it into the detent and it would return to dig(level), and if you were curled up, let’s say with half a bucket you could put the bucket on the ground and then kick the detent forward and it would put the bucket level again, so spillage. That loader was probably my favourite one I’ve ran so far. Better then the joystick set up. I took a video of my loader, oil not completely up to operating temperature. But it lifts the arms from level ground bucket on the dirt, to max raise height in 6 almost 7 seconds. And bucket curl from flat to curled all the way in less then a second. But I’m guessing I had to do it from bucket full dump to complete curl.
Here’s a little shot of what I did today. Took a rough and uneven face of a valley and smoothed it off and made it a more gentle slope with a fairly even grade
Someone forgot to put waypoints for the drone, and had to guess how the previous pictures were.... lol and I’m the only one who’s flown my drone.
thats the point i was making about the 2 lever system i started on a 955h lever steer a few years ago should add a 977 pony start traxcavator all manual op also
Sorry, I should have put the full spiel in there ....... Warm hydraulic system to normal operating temperature. Raise Lift Arms to kickout, tilt bucket forward to full dump position. Measure time at High Idle RPM to tilt bucket back to full racked back position.
So tired of hearing the whining from the soft skinned 'skinners' these days. Never had to start a troublesome pony or deal with multi lever steer/hydraulics at same time or Cable tractors, open station without ROPS and definitely NO A/C. Most would run away crying if had to do so today.
No whining, swapping opinions. And I don't know who you're pointing at as soft skinned, but I'm closer to 60 than 50 and cut my teeth on full manual transmission/clutch brake and multiple levers. (Have to admit I missed out on donkey engines on Traxcavators.) I just don't prefer to operate that way nowadays. I might stand it on a hobby machine a few hours a month, but not 50--60 hrs + a week on production. I don't like starting handles on cars either.
Nobody here LOL!! There are quite a few thin skinners locally I AM pointing at as they are UNDER 40 and never had to work inclement by design or weather! Sorry to come off about anyone HERE, did not intend to make that sound that way!! Stood on more left rails than ever intended swinging on a crank thru a hood or fighting bad gas/old gas in a pony on a site that set too long!! Did not realize how sweet the newer machines were until worked on a few of the fully cabbed units just before my final trade position change.
I’m below thirty, and I find the older equipment very interesting, I run brand new equipment at work. Literally every year a new machine, our graders are the oldest equipment we have, but I’m only at 2700 hours, probably 5 years old. The track loader is one year old lease. And the loaders and dozer at the snow dump are brand new leases. But I still find myself wanting to buy older machines for cheap because they still do the work. Like my old 60’s Allis and Chalmers m-100 Grader. $750 lol
Sorry mate, just came in from undoing a particularly stubborn bolt, so while not soft skinned, definitely thin-skinned when I replied. Don't think it's particularly a US phenomenon, we've just had a couple of stoppages because the aircon died (on a cold day) and the heating died (on a day when it was well in the '70's). They were both guys over 40. On the other hand we've got one guy in his twenties who'd keep operating if the machine burst into flames underneath him and a track fell off. Still don't like starting handles, Dad broke his arm when a Farmall kicked back, and I've had too many near misses To like them. By the way, great work on the machine, when I'm passing I'll drop by for a spin.
Have another job lined up here come December 1st. Farmer wants an old yard site removed. Shelter belt taken down. And then work on a 15 acre bush as much as I can within his budget. Going to see what the quality of the shelter belt is. See if I can take some of the logs back home. The yard has an old barn, and few old wooden bins. Might see what I can find for good old barnwood. Old growth timbers or anything useable. His budget is $10,000 max. Lets see what I can accomplish, I’m looking forward to it.
trust me you really did`nt miss anything of all the machines i`ve tangled with that had to be the worst
1975, greener than owl poop I was thrust into the world of Chargeable hour mechanic. That was when Cable equipment was still in HEAVY use and most machines had two to three loader controls as well hand clutches and stick shift manual boxes. My third week wrenching a customer called with a Cable 8 pan dragger, fuel issues, I had to teach myself to drive it to get it off the field sick and dying still tied to the pan to where it could be worked. My life of misery and self education had begun! Luckily service call work was time and materials, turned out was a load of BAD fuel the owner tried to strain thru a cheesecloth to get the black bacteria out of it, only lasted a few hours. Fuel filters looked like someone had used them to store Snot.
What is the purpose of the work done in the video?
It’s an acreage plot. The face of the valley was very uneven and rough. They wanted it smoothed off and at less of a grade so that they could plant trees, and to be able to put grass along the face, to be able to drive a riding lawn mower across it. Only took a couple hours.
Well, this job has been a gong show. Massive dead tree blew up when I touched it, cracked the plastic roof. Bent two handles. Took off the return to dig sensor, cracked my windshield somehow. And then the main hydraulic hose blew.... 18-5 is the hose that went. Right under the seat middle of the cab... let me tell you the pain lol. I didn’t remove the cab. But now I’m back and running with new hose. Here’s some clearing I did
Neat and tidy! Nice work
Long time no talk, this March i was contacted by a fellow on the classifieds looking to get some work done. So i drove over to his place in the valley to get a look at it in the snow. He has a 30x50’ shop beside about a 25’ hill thats cut away a bit to fit the shop. The hill is on a decent slope with a clay bank so it hasn’t sluffed down in the 20 years he’s lived there. The top of the hill is densely treed. The new building is 40x60’, he wants a 15’ gap between the shops, and then the same amount of room between the shop and the new bank, side, and back. The front leads into a small clearing. His plans were to start in April. But complications on his end happened with the permit, geo reports, engineering. And then once he got that cleared up, Family came up. Family is a priority, so i was not upset at all we didn’t have solid plans. I figured if he wanted the work done he would come back. He did. A few weeks ago he contacted me wondering if i was still wanting to come out and do the work for him. I said sure, and went to take a look at it in the summer. Got a better look. Felt confident i could do the job And agreed to come out the next following weekend. That was the plan anyways, friday night we got a wild thunderstorm come through. It rained over an inch and a half overnight, and my municipality put on 8” of fresh gravel on the road in front of the farm so there was absolutely no way i could ever make it. So i had to cancel that morning, not a good start... Saturday evening it dried up enough to take the truck and trailer loaded to town to get on a scale to be able to get my overweight permit for the secondary highway. Steer tires 5310 Drive Tires 16090 Tridem 23980 This is fully loaded, fully fueled with everything i would ever carry. I was 20kg shy of my legal limit on a primary. I can just move the machine further forward on the deck to put some more weight on the truck to give myself some room for the mud and snow that will accumulate. Plus now i know to haul my machine without fuel in it if i can. Anyways got the permit and headed out for Sunday morning. Got started right away, hammered through the trees just to get myself a pathway up the hill. Which was a lot bigger and steeper then i expected. Once i got on the hill i pushed all the trees down to the bottom and then piled them in a clearing. Stripped the topsoil from the hill side, and from the base of the hill. There was a very healthy 2-3 feet of top soil from the grass and leaves composting and being untouched for many many years. Once i felt confident about the bottom of the hill i climbed up to the top and went to work stripping the top soil on the hillside i would be pushing the waste material up onto. I stripped the top soil to the top of the hill and cleared the entire area i would expect to use, and then some extra for good measure. When i was up there i spotted the top of a rock probably only showing about 2 square feet. But i had a feeling it was a big one, and the land owner had mentioned he wanted to keep the rocks. So i dug it up, and it was bigger then a smart car. So i called him and he guided me where he wanted to put the rock on his driveway. Once i had my work space cleared and ready for work, i went to the top of the hill that i was to strip and started making myself a little platform to work from. Then the push started, bucket after bucket. The start went by very fast, it was a slight downhill push. Thinking ahead i pushed my material all the way to the back of the stripped top soil on the hill side. Leaving myself room for the next bucket, the next lift i would take off. This went on for the full day, i put in a solid 10 hours of work. Made a lot of progress. The next day, i woke up to 3” of rain. Thankfully my experience in road construction ALWAYS prepare for rain. So the night before i sloped the entire site to drain. And with 3” of rain i only had one puddle and it was only 1” deep and 5’ long from where i turned with my track and it dug in. I fueled my machine up again, and then left it there. Letting the site dry for the next two days. Wednesday i went back after work and put in another 3 hours pushing up a ramp now. The entire hill so far after the top soil was pure sand. No rocks at all. I was concerned about the structure and stability of the bank i would create alone the side of the cut. Which was weird the bank existing by his current shop was a very nice yellow clay, but 15’ into the hillside, it turned into sand. So i saved that yellow clay for later when i could reuse and repurpose the existing into the new construction. Which that was a proven way to reinforce the bank. The next few days were the same, work from 6am-4:30pm, drive out for 5:30 and then work till dark. Until one day, i found his shop waterline in the hill! At 130 PSI it really let me know when i found it haha. He knew it was in the hill somewhere, but didn’t know where. Told me to dig until i found it, or didn’t find it. It made no difference as he was going to run the house water to both shops come September. He shut the well off, and capped the water line the next day. I got to a point i needed either a laser level system, or a gps to make a perfectly flat pad for the start of the building. But i chose to hire my gradesperson from work to come out and take shots for me with a string line and level. Cheaper, and i could get her to do little things for me around the job. Plus she had never seen my machine before, and wasn’t impressed by the pictures so she wanted to come out and see. My ramp of sand had gotten ridiculously large, traction was getting hard to come by and it was taking a lot of power to climb up the steepness of it. But as i went down to my grade that the client wanted. I ran into a dense clumpy clay. It was very different to the eye, the clay would break up into little cubes and chunks and be covered with a white powder. Which when the client came out explained to me that it must be ground water, finding its way through the clay and its calcium build up. Said his well water has such a high calcium content he runs a whole house R.O. System. Before he had to replace his taps 3 times a year from build up and corrosion. Anyways i got my 70’ x 90’ pad dug out of the clay, and was able to stockpile enough clay on top of the sand that i felt i had enough to clay cap all the sand i had pushed up there. With the pad for the surrounding of the building made. I got out my stakes and laid out the corners of the building, and then started to cut out the building’s pad. He is going with a 5” reinforced concrete pad, with a 3” foam underlay. So i went along cutting 8” out to get his building pad ready. And doing that i found about a dozen watermelon sized rocks just borderline in the way. I decided to take them out. A few days prior the concrete guy had come out to get a quote for the land owner. And i stopped to ask a few questions. Basically saying that he didn’t expect me to get it close to grade or flat. But it didn’t matter he could bring in base to fill it and get to grade. I mentioned the whole hill was sand, and he said that alright to use as well. With the foam it didn’t matter what was underneath it. Once i took those rocks out, i took another couple inches of clay to fill the holes from the rocks, and to make sure there wasn’t any more right there waiting to push up and make a pressure point. Then i went into the bank to grab a bunch of nice sand. I backfilled the pad with the sand to a 5” hole. Nice and flat, smooth, and grade. So im curious to hear what this concrete guy will have to say when he comes back. With the pad completed, i had a bunch of clay i hauled up the ramp made a stock pile on the side to use later. Now the fun part, i got up onto the top of my small mountain i pushed up, and started sculpting. Pushing down hill, it got sketchy at times with the sand, being on a hillside. Turning and having the tracks dig in. Puckered up a couple times. I got my sand all laid down and luckily i did have enough to clay cap the entire hillside. I also had hauled up all that 2-3’ of topsoil from the bottom of the hill to the top as well, and thank god because i needed every little bit of it to cover this massive hill i had made. Now with my clay ramp in the corner still, i needed to remove it. Again i was lucky and was thinking ahead, i left my bank open, and cut back farther then it needed to be. Just so i could cut my ramp out and use it to reinforce the bank. And to fill the hole i dug into it stealing some sand for the backfilling. Gave the pad i driven over a little touch up, leaving a little bit of sand on the end to use if they needed. And that was it. All in, it took 31 hours to complete, start to finish on my part. I’ll put the pictures up in the next post.
Final product, sorry these pictures didn’t upload in any particular order at all...
Very NICE work. I am in no way that slick with a loader, you must practice Often!!
I agree, nice work with a pretty big machine.
Thanks, i just wish i could find more work to do. I made more money in the 31 hours then i would in a month and a half of my full time job. Even though my expenses are higher its a much bigger reward financially and in my pride.
Impressive work. CM will be offering you work, you being local to him...well, compared to me you are. Seriously, I like to see a tidy job, and as a 953/963 jockey I have a good idea what went into that pad.
Pushing snow with it from march preparing for spring melt.
Need to build you a Push Blade, something similar to a Semi U off a D6.
A local company makes a push blade called a Strongbox. If you google Degelman Strongbox. At work we have an 18’ wide blade. Works fantastic and slips on the bucket and is held on with chains and binders. Although at work I never chained it on so I could easily use it or not.
If anyone remembers i smashed the roof, and the windshield on my loader back in december 2018, i replaced the windshield on the loader right away, but put off fixing the roof. I finally got around to fixing it, still have a little left to do on it though fix the missing pieces. Maybe this will save someone a few bucks in the end like i have done.
Molded plastic of Fiberglass?
the roof is made out of molded plastic, so I repaired everything I could with the plastic welder. But the hole that’s left I wasn’t able to find the plastic pieces, so I’m going to try and fill it with fibreglass. You can visually see the hole from in the cab it would absolutely drive me up the wall if I left it.
Would Rough glass it on the underside, then finish it on the top side to keep from developing a low spot water puddle leak point as it will eventually break loose.
Yeah, i was watching some videos on youtube, some people have put tinfoil tape on the visible side, and then fibreglass on the inside. then finished it with some body filler on the top. I'll probably try that method. I have some CAT yellow paint as well i can cover it to make it look half decent. I'll have to try and seal all the other cracks with some as well or else if the water can get in it will just crack it more.
Time to do some maintenance on the loader. I have to repack one of the tilt cylinders. Got a quote from CAT for $2,400. Looked at the quote. $350 for the parts, the rest is labour, honing, and polishing. I haven’t rebuilt a cylinder on a piece of heavy equipment before but I have on smaller farm implements and a power trim tilt cylinder on a boat. My biggest concern is getting the rod nut loose And back tight. I don’t know the torque spec on them. Now, I have all fresh hydraulic fluid ready to change all the hydraulic oil when I’m done. But I want to do one of the lower lift cylinders as well because I see it is starting to leak a bit. Should I just support the bucket in the air and remove both cylinders at the same time?
I wouldn't be surprised in the cylinder nut/bolt is 1200 ft./lbs. or more on a 973. Depending if the cylinders appear to be in good shape, you may be able to just take the rods out and have a shop change the seals for you. Cat cylinders are a lot different than farm implement cylinders. If the machine is your primary money maker get the cylinders completely rebuilt. If the machine isn't used daily to earn a living with then you can probably get away with just changing the seals if the rod and barrel look in good shape. Cat will want to do a complete overhaul and pressure test the cylinders so they can be warrantied. Just having the seals changed won't have warranty if they leak but will be substantially less expensive so is a bit of a gamble. It would be the same if you did the seals yourself but they would have all the proper tooling and know-how to put the seals in and tighten the piston nut/bolt. I just had the seals changed on my 931B 4 in 1 bucket without any problems. Seals were about $100 per cylinder and they charged me an hour labour each to change them. This is taking just the rods to them. The tilt cylinders I took in complete and they cost $1750 to have both done but they said the chrome was bad and they had a slight bend. I'm not sure what all is involved with the quote you got from Cat or if that is just a rough estimate until they actually see the cylinder(s)? I also think some hyd. shops are no different than some automotive shops that tell you need stuff done that you don't. In the future if I take a cylinder in I want them to show me what all is bad other than the seals instead of just taking their word for it.
Off by a factor of 100% - it's actually 2300 ft.lbs. With something of the size of a 973 you need to make double sure that everything is supported correctly if you plan on removing multiple cylinders at the same time.
I was going to say 2000 ft./lbs. but I knew they'd be ungodly tight. I think you'd pretty much have to have a cylinder bench to loosen and tighten them properly.
As heavy as that loader frame is, I would DROP the bucket if at all possible then set a STEEL Frame to support off the pivot bores to pull Both at same time, and YES takes a puller to remove the bucket pins.
Not exactly. The bucket has collet-type pins so they use three fine-thread extractor bolts. The problem is usually that no-one plugs the extractor bolt holes and so when you want to use them they are either blocked up with crud or the threads are corroded, or both. Bearing that in mind I'd vote to leave the bucket on.
The quote for the tilt cylinder was $2,400, and it was a repack, hone the bore and polish the rod. $1,400 was labour. I had a feeling the cylinders would be quite different from any farm cylinder I’ve done. I do not want to remove the bucket not w standard pin as Nige said. I was going to take a round bale Or two side by side under the pins on the bucket and let the bucket rest on the bale at the heel of the bucket so it can’t roll back. the next issue. The rear tilt pin is only removable when the loader arms are down because the pin removes to the outside of the machine. And with the loader arms up it blocks the pin from being removed. I was hoping I could remove the tilt cylinder pin, and the oil is not transferable between cylinders When under pressure so one could just support the loose cylinder and then lift the bucket on the bale to remove the lift cylinder.
Looking at a pic. of a 973 you may be able to lift the boom enough to retract the lift cylinder enough to get it out and also be able to remove the pin for tilt cylinder. The other thought I had but not sure if it's possible is leave the bucket down to pull the pin from the tilt cylinder and then put the pin back in (or another temporary pin) from the inside just so you can lift the boom enough to get the lift cylinder out. I think you only need to lift the boom a foot or so to have enough room to get the retracted boom cylinder off. It wouldn't have to be way up in the air and you could use proper blocking to hold the boom up.
Am thinking the Lift cylinder will drop at the front enough to slip forward and out Boom Down and solid. Just have to situate lifting mechanisms appropriately. MUCH Safer than balancing acts with the boom Up.
Personally, I would do them as two separate jobs. Tilt cylinder first, then lift cyl. Lifting the loader with a tilt cylinder removed is going to cause you all sorts of trouble getting it back together, along with oil loss unless you get creative with blocking plates for the hoses. And don't underestimate the removal of the lift cylinder head-end pins. Approach the job with the attitude that you may have to pull the rod out and leave the barrel in the machine.
If that is the case place bucket in dump position sit teeth on a piece of steel to keep from settling into soft soil then pull pins for lift Cylinder
So I opted to do the jobs separate. I didn’t want to risk any kind of accident. took the cylinder off today, which wasn’t an issue at all, heavy SOB though, used the tractor and put it on a pallet. found a local guy that use to work for CAT as the head hydraulic specialist. Dropped the cylinder off at his shop he has a cylinder bench to rebuild them on. right away he got me the cylinder number off the cylinder to take to cat and then I’ll go get the seals for him, he grabbed the rod and spun it by hand and he said the cylinder bore might have to be taken in to get honed because he doesn’t do that. said he could rebuild the cylinder for half of the quote. So let’s see how it works out. If that’s the case then I can afford And justify to get the two lift cylinders done as well while I’m at it. Get them out of the way so hopefully I don’t have to open the hydraulic system again. the part that is crossing my mind is if I should be getting rubber o rings to fit around the pins to take up the slack side to side on the cylinders when installed.
There were wiper seals on the ends of the cylinder eyes and if I recall shims on the barrel end on my 931B.
The 973C linkage doesn't call for any sort of shims on the cylinder pins either lift or tilt. All the cylinders should have wirper seals to act as relief valves for grease in the joint (see illustration - Item 5). Replacing them should be part of your cylinder rebuild. Make sure the lips face outwards as per the illustration. Rubber O-Rings in the gaps wouldn't do diddly squat as regards taking up play. Even if the linkage was well-greased they would tear up and fall out in short order so IMHO you are wasting your time with that idea. Also bear in mind that where linkages are concerned they need some sideways float to compensate for any misalignment that there might be. The only pins that really need to be shimmed to reduce side float to zero (or almost) are those between the Lift Arm and the loader frame (circled). Any play there and with a full bucket up in the air effectively you have a 20-ton hammer banging from side to side. That's what cracks things.
FWIW the only shims on my 953C BBX series is from arm to bucket pins. 2 years ago had the Cat house replace P&B's on the bucket and tilt dogbone as well as repack two cylinders. They re-shimmed the bucket pins as well.
I do have side to side play in that spot you mentioned. There is no shims there at all. Does one buy special thrust shims or just use any shim will do? The hydraulic guy I dropped off the cylinder to last night tore it apart this morning and called me to let me know he’d recommend a rod polish. So I went and picked up the rod and I’ll be taking it in to get polished. The barrel crosshatching was just fine. the seals were completely worn out he also said, after 20 years of use I think it did well.
The Parts Manual doesn’t list any shims there. Right where the pin marked F-F is, measure how much space you have between the outside surface of the lift arm and the inside surface of the machine frame on both sides and post the measurements. Probably be something like 5-15mm on each side
I haven’t been on for a while, but doing some maintenance on the machine... changed final drive oil. Changed engine oil Changed fuel filters topped up pivot shafts set track tension the roller I put two winters ago I must not have tightened the bolts enough it walked out a bit and the rail was touching the edge so repositioned that. Put the tilt cylinder back on I propped up the loader arms with round bales. Curled the bucket back, took a tractor and pushed against it to support everything. Released the pressure off the hydraulics with machine off. Drained all the hydraulic fluid from the tank, then took off hydraulic lines To lift arms and nothing came out... the tilt cylinders were straight vertical so I was able to drain the barrels on those. I slowly took the bales away from under the loader arms to drop them and push all the oil out of the barrels... made a mess but it’s done. now tomorrow all I gotta do is wiggle on the hoses, which will be a pain because lift cylinders are in the way now. And then fill up with hydraulic oil, rinse off all the oil mess, put the panels back on. And grease it. I have 3 jobs lined up this week with the loader. And another job I have to set a time for.
As usual with Hydraulic Controlled leakage or spillage, SPLORT and it goes where it wishes!! Good work though Ippie!!
Looks like fun. I wish my grousers looked like those!
Well, i finished putting my machine together this morning. Got it to the job site by 2:30. Worked till 7:30 tonight. No problems so far. Other then the oil i missed when i washed it... It's black all over now. The pads dont have much time on them, cant remember when they were replaced, think about 1,500 hours ago. DMiller, i tried to do something ridiculous. Took rubber gloves and zip tied them onto the hose ends, and then cut off the tips of the thumbs to try and shoot the oil down into the pails, seemed to work when i went slow. Until the last little bit when the bucket fell about a foot and a half. Blew out the bottom end like after taco tuesday.
That would be that "Splort" I noted!!! Best laid Plans. We used to try large diameter PVC Conduit or sleeve tubing only to see the giant sized New Years rolled up noise makers in MASSIVE stretched out straight soak everything in sight Sprayers or hydraulic Rocket Motors!!
Well, i didnt knock on wood hard enough i guess. I had a service code come up today in the last half hour of the night... 079 136.08 It came up, i stopped, then started to drive out of the bush so if i needed to work on it i was in a decent spot. And then the code went out. So i started pushing again from that end where i was going to stop and then the code came back. I had just washed the machine two days ago and rinsed off everything with the garden hose underneath because it was all filthy. So hopefully i didnt get water in a connection somewhere stupid, but i dont know why it would only trigger now. My main question is, is the machine safe to operate? Or will i damage it by running it with that code? I have a couple hours left on this job. The other two jobs can wait till i get it fixed i guess. We are suppose to get 14" of snow sunday...
079 136.08 is generated by the right drive motor pressure sensor. Troubleshooting procedure attached. I think you might be right when you question if your washing has got water in the works somewhere - see reason #2 on the list of possible causes. An electrical schematic may be your best friend. If you don't have one please ask.
I don’t have a schematic. I spent all night on cat parts trying to find a diagram or even where the sensor is located. But I do know that it’s $1,300 for a sensor!!
One is on its way to you as we speak .... Sensor Part Number is 199-9702. I'm showing it as US$517 out of a US dealer. Before shelling out for one I think you would be best to start looking at connections for damp or contamination. It's #13 on the illustration below.
Thank you so much. I’m on my way to the machine now. I hope it’s a damp connection. But I brought tools to trouble shoot. Ran fine for 10 hours and even with the code up the machine tracked straight and functioned as normal.
A correction. There are 2 of those sensors, the one I circled and the one to the left of it in the illustration. To find out which is which you'll have to check the wires going to each sensor. LH sensor the wires in the machine harness as far as the sensor connector are - White, Pink, Yellow RH sensor the wires are - White, Pink, Grey.
There’s 3 sensors. I checked the connections. Sprayed connector clean, unplugged and plugged back in a bunch of times. Then checked power. Had 8v exactly. the next step was to check the connectors at the ECM, but I wasn’t sure which connectors were. I thought I’d give this a go with clean connectors first and see if the code comes back up. Hopefully not.
If it does come back, try interchanging the two sensor connectors. if the codes stay the same then the fault would appear to be in the wiring and/or connectors between the one in your photo and the ECM. If if changes to 079.137.08 then the problem would appear to be in the sensor or the connector at the end of the sensor pigtail.
Well good news is that I never had that code back today. I am having something happen in the joystick though, when I go to tilt the bucket down it makes a vibrating as if it’s passing air though. It doesn’t do it all the time, and it never happens for anything but tilting down. And it only does it right off the start of the motion and only for a split second.
Wonder if it's related to having the one tilt cylinder resealed?
Well that code came back today with a vengeance. Now it kicked in and stopped the machine. I can play with the wiring at the silver tube and it turns the warning off. So I’m assuming it needs replacement.
Switched the pigtails for the sensors. And sure enough the service code changed to 079 0137.08 so it’s either the sensor or the pigtail.
$1040 later and I’m back up and running
Doesn't it just fry your ass that something so small could stop your machine from operating AND costs $1040??!!!
It’s absolute robbery, there is no way that sensor could in any way be worth that much. I was down for 3 hours, and had to drive into town to get the sensor, it’s a good thing I opened the package when I got it, there was no o-ring in the package at all. Probably charged me an extra $10 for a stupid oring when I mentioned it to the parts guy. I wasn’t allowed to go into the building because I never had a face mask so I called and made them bring it to me, if I’m going to get bent over I may as well get courted first. I’m taking the old one in to a farm electronics shop that rebuilds sensors switches and everything and I’m going to see if they can figure out what makes it tick and rebuild it. Then I’ll keep it as a spare if they figure it out. After I replaced the sensor the machine ran flawless no codes. I forget how to clear the service codes with the switches under the right console. Anyone care to refresh my memory? I can’t remember what page I was told before.
Check out the click box thread in the Shop Talk forum. IIRC operating two of the switches together scrolls through modes.
Here’s a decent little hole I dug yesterday to bury some old barbed wire fence. Probably 7 feet deep.
Scrappers here are LIKING Fence wire, High Tensile!!
We have a steel mill here and they don’t like it. Not even worth the time and effort to take it in. $20 a ton. Lol it was cheaper for me to dig a hole and get rid of it then it was for him to drive it all the way into the city.
If as you mentioned earlier when you wiggle the pigtail between the connector and the ballast (the silver tube) then maybe you have a soldered joint somewhere that is giving up. It may well be fixable quite simply.
Hold the Serivce and Clear switches over together until the Mode shows "-3-" then release. Each press of the service switch will scroll from one Diagnostic Code to the next. Each press of the clear switch will erase a Logged Code. When you're done press both switches together again until the Mode shows " -0- " and release. that will put you back in operational mode.
do you get paid to help everyone? You deserve a coffee!
So i got another question, while doing cold starts in colder then -15*C the other day. I thought it was a glow plug switch on the dash, but looking at the electronic schematics. It's appearing to be an air heater. I'm unsure if the switch or the heater works. The light on the dash to indicate the operation does not light up. Is the air heater on a timer? So one holds the button down long enough for the light to illuminate to signal to start or?
Are you talking about this switch.? The Operator Manual lists it as being for the ether start aid. Are there any ether lines hooked up to the air inlet manifold.?
It’s the switch right beside it, it’s a glow plug symbol on top of the engine. It’s beside the ether button. 2 way switch, spring loaded to come back to off position. it shows up in the electric schematics as an air inlet heater. I thought for sure it was glow plugs but when I looked I never saw where the glow plugs could be.
According to the schematic the air inlet heater wiring is not connected to anything. Look for "CONN 19" you will see that there is nothing connected to the "business side" of it. It must have been an attachment for another model. This is borne out by what the Operator Manual says when talking about the Monitoring System Panel indicators. Again, have a look to see if there is any ether tubing connected (or signs of it having been connected) to the inlet manifold between the turbo and the engine. This is for machine 3RZ00297, correct..?
this is correct it is for that serial number. Which when I go to the dealership they list it as a LGP unit, and when I type it into the cat parts website it lists it as a waste handler unit. the machine has the yellow bottle of ether on the firewall, with the tubing running to the engine, unsure if it is actually plumbed into anything I never thought about it.
If has ether hotshot will have had the intake heater disabled if even had one Bad mix ether in intake and a heater element with it
If you need improved low ambient temperature starting capability then I suggest you should pursue the ether system and find out if it's working.
Block Heater or a Salamander and tarps(Just not TOO Close to the Heater!!)
Went out there, the one side door was frozen shut. But there is no intake air heater on the machine. And I couldn’t see glow plugs. I’d much rather have either of those then ether injection.
Ether is fine if used properly and doesn't drain the batteries like glow plugs or intake heaters. Cat factory systems inject a measured amount of ether and won't allow it if the engine is warm. The shop that did my engine lost the electrical connector that went near the water pump. It was temp. switch that wouldn't allow the ether system to work when the coolant was warm.
Next cold start i'll give the old ether button a try, who would've thought that cat would put a glow plug/intake heater button, and indicator light in a machine without any function...
It's a "standard" monitor panel probably used in a couple of hundred different machine models (188 that I can find), only some of which will be equipped with air intake heaters. Eaiser to have something that is all-singing all-dancing and not use a specific function in some applications than have a slew of different part numbers IMO.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, haven't done much with the loader, but decided to put some videos up, made a youtube account for it. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-WlKqa2JFe5ofqdfjSSEfw There's the channel if anyone's interested.
Here's a few videos i put up.
Got quite a few more videos on the YouTube. in my internet browsing, seems I’ve come across a ripper for a 973. It is a take off from a 973d model. But it appears to be the same. Can anyone confirm? they have it priced at 10,500.
By Part Number the Ripper Arrgt to fit a 973D (283-7195) is different to the one for a C model machine (161-5692). So before delving down the rabbit hole of the exact differences between one and the other, ask the seller to give you the Serial Number of the one in the photo so it can be identified. The plate is right there on the RH tower above the green sticker showing the lifting point.
perfect, thanks just waiting a call back with info.
picture is worth a thousand words lol
S6C-prefix. Definitely a 283-7915 Ripper Arrgt from an LCP-prefix 973D machine. Does it have the lines and the 3rd section for the Control Valve (you'd need both of those) or just what you see in the photo.? Would you like to know what the differences are..?
Looking at it there is some differences between the C model ripper and the D model, my main concern is it fitting on the machine properly with the correct pins. As well as it being able to cycle it’s range of motion because the C model ripper barely lifts up in comparison to the D model. Don’t believe it comes with any of the hardware inside the machine. But a local mechanic said he could do that for me for $10k installed. He use to be the head hydraulic specialist for years at my local cat dealership.
Some, he says. Just about every part you can think of is different between the two. First thing I looked at was the mounting - "No Common Parts". But if your ex-dealer guy is confident he can do the job, don't let fear stop you.
the shop that has it listed, had it to fit a 973C model as well. I was hesitant to believe it. But it’s still mounted to two pins in a similar orientation, the design has changed drastically yes but with them listing it to fit a C model it made me curious. https://www.marketbook.ca/listings/construction-attachment/for-sale/82767135/cat-973d
After some time spent on the phone. Dealership confirms it is not interchangeable between D and C models.
Well colour me surprised - not. See 3 posts above, especially the bit about “no common parts”.......
Updated parts don’t have the same part number either, just because they’re not the same part doesn’t mean they won’t work. The rear frame sections could be the same from the C to the D model, but I’m not paying ten grand to find out.
My reply a few posts above did take into consideration updated part numbers and pretty well everything else I could think of. What finally convinced me it was a no-go (as regards being a pretty straightforward installation or not) was the fact that the mounting pins between the C & D installations were of different diameters and the geometry of the two linkages was different, plus a host of other more minor details like there being no control valve, etc, etc. TBH I think you were wise to pass on it. Not saying it couldn’t be made to fit, but it would require more than a bit of “re-engineering”.
Had more jobs line up during the winter but broke my finger really bad, 8 screws and a plate. Still unable to bend my finger very much. trying to create revenue with purchasing these two tools... 12’ Rome breaking disk And a 12’ PTO rock rake. I bought the disk back in beginning of March but it was still frozen a foot deep in the dirt. So I’ll have to go get it, but hoping to be able to rent/hire myself with the breaking disk after I push the bush, break up roots I miss, and the sod. Then after I’m done breaking the land, I have that rake to rake the rocks I bring out, and the roots as well. Hopefully to have the lane immediately available for cropping.
What do you use to drag those?
Have multiple tractors on the farm I can use. But more then likely I would rent it to the farmers I’m going to be clearing land for. Then they can decide what’s good for a final product. Day rate for the rental.
So I've done a big job with my machine, and i was having issues with the return to dig not functioning properly. In the mornings before i worked the machine hard the return to dig feature would work just fine, but it seems after i would work it hard, and then tilt the bucket down, and rake dirt forward or backwards the return to dig wouldn't function properly. So for example, i had a soft spot, and wanted to fill in the hole with some dirt, so i get a bucket full of material and dump the material down before the hole and with the teeth i would drag it over top of the dole to deposit it in as i drove forward. Then i would go to try and return to dig so i could get my bucket flat to dig out another bucket. Well, kick it into the detent, and it would immediately cut out. Or go for a split second and then stop. Not in the desired spot where the sensor should kick it out. But at the same time, if i took a bucket of material, and just carried it out and dumped it, the return to dig feature would work just fine. I'm not sure if this has anything to give more incite. But i did notice that lowering the lift arms down, to lower my bucket to the ground has lost some of the accuracy. If i barely push forward on the joystick, it drops extremely fast. It feels like the valve isn't gradually opening, instead it is going from 10% open to 80% open in a very short span.
As a first step I suggest to test the pilot pressure. It is supplied by a pressure-reducing valve from the main system. Spec is 348 +/- 7psi at pressure tap 1.
RTD on the 963 I use uses a magnetic switch for point of level on the bucket, would wonder if may have a lead broken in that circuit harness, is encased in a tube along top of curl cylinder. The unit I use has been unavailable for quite some time and has been essentially deleted.
got a mechanic out, 445-460psi at the port. guess I need to adjust shims in the relief. He has access to the cat tools. And he just sent me a picture here. Shows what shim does what change of pressure.
If he has access to SIS (from photo above) then did he do the 2nd test for pilot pressure.? It's important to do that one before starting to mess around with shims. A measured value of 100psi above spec suggests to me that something isn't quite right somewhere and adding/removing shims is not necessarily going to fix it. I'll send you the full document.
Okay, so what i understand the pilot pump outputs a pressure to the feed line on the pressure reducing valve. And that pressure from the pump should be 348psi + or - 7 psi. And my pilot pump is showing 448psi on the gauge tonight when i checked. So before any changes are to be made on the pilot pressure reducing valve with the shims. I need to get my pilot pressure down to 348, and then follow the steps in the PDF you gave me on page 10. I do not see a pressure relief valve on my pilot pump at all.
All the pump does is provide a flow of oil. The valve below is what controls the adjustment of the 348+/-7psi pressure. The combination of the spring #1 and the shims #2 & #5 in other words. I think that you are so far off specification with a measured pressure of 448psi that it is very possible that something is wrong inside the valve that adding/removing shims will not fix. My first suggestion would be to remove the two Adapters #3 from each end of the valve, then remove the spool and the spring. Take a look inside the bore for scoring, etc. Check the spool for any type of damage or wear. Inspect the spring for damage and measure the free length. It should be 50.5mm. With 27.5 +/- 2.0kg of force applied to it the length should be 44.1mm. Note the quantity of thick (#2 - 0.9mm) and thin (#5 - 0.25mm) shims installed in the valve. There should also be a single spacer (#6 - 2.7mm thick) right next to the end of the spring. The quantities of each listed in the Parts Manual are shown below. Those numbers would be the starting point for making any adjustments.
BTW the illustration in Post #483 that the mechanic sent to you is not the correct one for 3RZ00297. That illustration is for a 119-5988 Valve that applies to machines 3RZ00626-Up. The illustration of the valve I posted above is a 1U-2226 fitted to all machines from 3RZ1 to 3RZ625.
yesterday I opened it up to check to see if the spring was broken. And the spring I have is a fairly heavy spring with blue paint on it. I had 3 thick spacers and 4 thin spacers. I did not have one of the #6 against the spring. for curiosity sake I took two thick spacers out and reassembled to see if any changes would happen. And no change to the pressure it stayed at 448 with two thick spacers removed. Adding spacers would increase the pressure at the test port correct? As it is creating more back pressure from a stronger spring rate basically. I will dissemble the valve and inspect it tonight when I get home from work. We don’t get much daylight anymore the sun is down by 6:30 and I don’t get gone till 5.
The blue stripe on the spring appears to be correct. If you have only used the same pressure gauge for all the measurements taken so far I would suggest that you try using a different gauge, just to see if it makes any difference. I think it's also worth carrying out the tests in Steps 3 & 4 on Page 10 of the document I sent to you. To do this will involve some additional fittings because you have to tee into "Line A". 3. Raise the bucket in the air. Ensure that the lift pilot valve and the tilt pilot valve is in the HOLD position. Shut off the engine. 4. Lower the bucket for a short distance and make sure that the pressure reducing valve does not contain the higher pilot pressure that may be trapped. Precisely when the lever is returned to the neutral position, check the pilot system pressure at the outlet port (A) of 119-5988 Selector and Pressure Control Valve (3) . The pressure should be 1350 ± 100 kPa (195 ± 15 psi). To check the Part Number of the valve please take a look at the body and see if there is either a P/N stamped on it or a data plate somewhere. The fact that you didn't find the 2.7mm-thick spacer is an indication that you could have the later P/N of valve despite the fact your machine falls into the "earlier valve" category. I'd like some of the track loader experts to chime in because looking at the hydraulic schematic it appears to me that the pressure reducing valve can get back-fed from the lift/tilt pilot valves and I'm not sure what effect that could have on its operation. Hydraulic schematic attached.
It seems odd the pressure gauge reads exactly 100 PSI too high. I think Nige is correct to try a different gauge.
I have tried two different gauges. One a digital other glycerin filled. Both read the same.
the only thing that stood out to me was this small metal shaving on the valve side. There was no scoring on he valve or in the body. Just some mild scuffing none that you can catch a nail on. that metal shaving was very stuck on there as well it wasn’t a loose shaving. Brake clean didn’t even spray it off.
I couldn't find either of my calipers to measure the spring, but it is 50mm. When the mechanic came over he suspected the same thing, we used the glycerin filled gauge first and thought it must have read wrong because like you guys said it is 100 psi over. So he grabbed his digital gauge and it was showing the same thing, he let me borrow the glycerin filled gauge because i dont have any and he's traveling working on machinery. With adding the T and the test port onto Line A permanently cause any issues? I wonder why CAT never installed one in there in the first place. To do those steps i will need to get the fittings and a test port. I will call cat tomorrow morning to see if they have them. In the posts above i have included pictures of the part numbers. My mechanic says that the reason the valve can get back fed from the lift and tilt pilot valves is incase the machine breaks down with the bucket in the air, the pressure from the weight of the loader arms and bucket will pressurize the pilot so you can safely lower it down. I was hoping you could explain to me why there is no pressure relief valve on the pump itself, there is no way to alter the pressure going to the test port, the pump will be able to outflow the reducer so even with any spring/shim changes the port will continue to show the output of the pump. Shouldn't the test port be located after the pressure reducing valve?
This is a crude drawing of what im trying to say, the line that comes from the pump goes into a T, and the test port is onto the T before the reducing valve, it does directly into the top of the valve. There is no way to reduce the pressure inline without releasing flow/pressure through a relief. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the test port POST reducing valve?
A logical explanation. The implement hydraulic "dead engine lower" system works in a similar way on quite a few loaders. Can you confirm that the six letters in the area I marked below are NONKNN.? If so that would date the valve body casting to July 2000 - 3 months before your machine was built. That would make your PRV Assembly a 1U-2226, correct for the machine Serial Number and lead us back to the question "where is the 2.7mm-thick shim that should be in there.?"
I think I have found something......... There is a pressure relief valve in the pilot pump. It is built into the head of the pump and the excess oil drains back to the implement hydraulic tank via the hose with the aluminium tag on it shown in Post #485. See attachment. Unfortunately there are very few service parts for the pump and nothing for the relief valve, so if it is damaged then it's a case of a new pump. Since your machine was built a new 204-5130 pilot pump has been introduced. To install that pump will require a different connector on the tank line. See the attached service article.
Now I'm wondering if the lack of the 2.7mm-thick shim in the 1U-2226 Valve is down to the fact that somebody has been in there before and has removed it in an attempt to reduce the pilot pressure.?
That’s what I thought. But on the underside of that there is no adjustment Allen screw and jam nut it is only a smooth headed hex bolt. Is it non adjustable? also the adapter that would hold the 2.7mm shim doesn’t have much room to fit any more shims in it. should I remove the pilot pump to get access for the relief and disassemble to see if there is something lodged in it? It’s all back together right now so I can go wash everything under there so I don’t get any contamination.
It is non-adjustable, but seeing as the O-ring Ref #1 in the illustration below is serviceable then doesn't the cap (arrowed) screw off somehow.? It's on the back side of your photos so impossible to see. Can you get the head of the pump off (4 screws arrowed blue).? If there is anything that can be removed to get access to the relief valve it will be somewhere in the area of the red arrow.
Took the pilot pump off the machine, got it on the bench removed that big plug looking thing where we think the relief valve is. Sure enough it is exact same concept as the reducer valve. Springs and shims. I disassembled everything to inspect and the pump must be a reman because it is like new. No wear at all. Relief valve looked brand new. So in turn I started by removing two thick shims and tested to see if there was any pressure changes. I got the pump back on and fired it up. It reduced the pressure down to the picture reference. So instead of trying to take the pump off again I managed to remove the retainer bolt to one of the main suction lines to the hydrostatic pump and pushed it out of the way barely giving me enough room to stick a 30mm (1-3/16”) socket and ratchet down there to get the relief apart. I took out another thick shin leaving me with 1 skinny and 1 thick shim and now my pressure is bang on. Barely below 350psi. Guessing 349psi. Now my concern goes to what pressures I’m seeing after the reducer valve itself. Actual pilot control pressure. I do not have the T or a test port to install. another thing I think I fixed, the kick out for return to dig. I was reading through the SIS that you gave me Nige and it shows the specs for air bag between the sensor and the magnet. And sure enough mine must’ve gotten hit by some rebar on that big hog barn job I did. Some fresh paint chips and scrapes. I was at about 16-18mm of air gap when the spec shows only 6mm. last thing I did was the lower bucket pins were starting to walk side to side after that job as well and really scraped up the loader arms. Worn down. So I removed the 3 bolts on each loader arm to clean them up, pressure washed in between the gap to remove as much dirt and debris as I could. Then centred the arms on the pins and reinstalled the bolts and clamped them down.
As far as I can see the pressure you measure at the test port is actual pilot pressure. All this started because you were commenting - " But I did notice that lowering the lift arms down, to lower my bucket to the ground has lost some of the accuracy. If I barely push forward on the joystick, it drops extremely fast. It feels like the valve isn't gradually opening, instead it is going from 10% open to 80% open in a very short span." So the question is, after getting the pilot pressure down from around 450psi to what sounds pretty much bang on specification - how does the lift arm control function now as regards response to the control lever.? Is it a bit less "hair trigger".?
If the bucket still wants to walk from side to side you could knock up some shims to go in the gap between the lift arms and the ears of the bucket. As an alternative to pulling the pins, as a quick fix we would cut a circular shim into two parts along the two lines shown below, slip the horseshoe-shaped piece into the gap then put the small piece back in and weld the outer end of the two parts back together again.
Yes it seems quite a bit more predictable and smoother operating. But I still notice the last 4’ of bucket drop it still drops quite exaggerated. If I have the bucket higher in the air I have more control. Any idea to why that is? The only way I can explain it is picture holding a sledge hammer in one hand at the end of the handle, if you hold it almost straight up and down you can manage to hold it up. But once the hammer gets past 45 degrees the leverage makes it too much for your wrist and forearm to slowly let down so it drops. my next step will be to get a T and plumb in a test port. I have a spacer in place of where the T goes for testing from page 10 steps 3/4. I was going to run into cat and grab some oil and fittings but they are closed today I guess.
I was wondering how to make spacers without taking the bucket pins apart. My friend has a plasma table so he could easily cut them out for me. I’m going to give it a go with just the bolts to see if that is the ticket. If it moves even once I’ll be getting those made up and installing them. Thanks again Nige.
Could it be issues with the lift cylinders I wonder.? You need to keep those bucket pins in good order because if they ever give problems removing the tapered collets on each end will probably require a few inches of detonator cord, despite the manual description being of a somewhat straightforward process. Generally nothing comes apart without a great deal of effort. Does your friend with the plasma table have a thermic lance.?
DAMN That is WAY Too Clean to be working on!!!!
The notation of more rapid on short lifts leads me to think still has air in the cylinders to some extent. If can get the machine over a trench side where can no load drop to full lower and full bucket dump then at a LOWER RPM where can still get hydraulics to function raise/lower and curl/dump should bleed any to almost 95% of air out.
I never thought it could be an issue with the lift cylinders. But I can say the lift cylinders have probably never been opened and rebuilt. When I had my one tilt cylinder rebuild the mechanic said it was original still basing off of the types of seals still in it. And the lift cylinders wiper seals seem to be the same age and condition. I try to keep my machinery clean, having dirty equipment is a pet peeve of mine. Thanks I got my machine loaded up on my trailer but I can drive it on a road with the bucket over the shoulder and try that.
Well, trip to cat got me set up to install a test port in place of that spacer I took a picture of before. Took an adapter fitting, a $60 T fitting, and a test port with some o rings. It is dark by 6:30 here now, so by the time I got back to the farm it was dark and didn’t feel like wrenching tonight. If it’s not snowing tomorrow after work I’ll install it and see what pressure my pilot reducer is letting through. Nice thing about this is now I can leave it on the machine. I don’t have to install the T every time, and since it will be on the machine I won’t ever need it again.
Hard to believe this thread has gotten over 100,000 views now. But little update, temps have been dropping like crazy. We are -13 degrees in the mornings when i go to work at 5am. Got quite a bit of rain last week. With the sun being low on the horizon and temps being low it takes for ever to dry up. The freeze cycles are drying more then the sun and warmth. But i got my machine loaded up on the trailer, going to push bush tomorrow again. I got the adapter and test port on the machine, fit perfectly all the parts i got were correct, no leaks. Tonight i fired it up, and following the SIS that Nige provided me, page 10 and steps 3-4 i was WAY out to lunch on my machine So, started the machine, lifted the bucket up, shut the machine off. Monitored the pressure with the weight of the loader arms. Moved the bucket down slightly and noted the pressure on the guage and it was up at 350psi. Spec is 195 + - 15psi. So i went in and removed 1 thick shim, and 3 small shims. Did the test again, got myself down to 250psi. Then i removed another thick shim and a small shim and got myself to 190psi. For anyone doing this, a thick shim is worth roughly 42psi, and a thin shim is worth 11psi. Found that in the SIS from cat. It worked fairly accurately for me. Topped up my hydraulic oil, washed off all the oil i spilled with brake clean to try keep my machine clean. Cant really wash it anymore with the temps being so low water will freeze to anything that doesn't get touched by the sun. So moral of the story, post reducer valve for my pilot pressure, i have finally gotten it down to 190psi which is within 5psi of being spec. Tomorrow i get to see if my issues are completely solved, i'm still going to go over the ditch and cycle the hydraulics completely end to end a few times to see if there is any air in it.
It makes you wonder why it was so high in the first place and who might have been messing with it previously and how long it’s been like this. It’s a good job you are handy with tools.
Know a great many operators that had NO business with a wrench in their hands tried to compensate for a defect by making 'Adjustments'. None of which ever bettered or corrected the problem only when the original issues were fixed did their attempts to fix the problem showed out, with the Typical, "I Din't touch Nuthin!" responses.
Especially when it comes to making adjustments on hydrostatic transmission control linkages....
Could always see the Vise grip or channel lock or crescent wrench roll over on hexes, the idiots could not understand how we knew.
Being handy with tools just means I’ve screwed up enough to have to learn how to use them. If it was a perfect world I wouldn’t know squat, just goes to show how good of luck I have. Haha thanks for the help Nige with the documents from CAT. Guess I should get that pressure gauge back to the mechanic I borrowed it from. I should probably buy my own kit now that I have my 973c and my hitachi 230.
A mouse got into the vents of my machine… taking padding from my seat, so I turned on the heater full blast and mouse nest starts coming out of the vents. It was so windy today like 60-80km winds I figured I’d be smart and open both doors and let the wind blow the mouse next out of my machine while I let it blow out so I don’t get hanta virus. just my luck, the button to release the door lock when you open it up all the way. Well it’s stuck pushed in, and the wind ripped grabbed the door and slammed it so hard that the window is completely spidered, when you’re sitting in the seat you can barely see through it it’s so spidered. Lucky it didn’t come right out, but unlucky I literally just took the machine off the trailer and was letting it warm up and that happened. my hydraulics still feel very touch and go when I’m lowering the bucket. I have fine control again when I barely push the lever, but if when I push it a little more then fine adjustments it drops fast like before still. It’s quite a bit better now though. is there chance of something being worn out now that it had been getting excessive pilot pressure?
Well, the bucket slid over today on the pins at the loader arms. So going to have to loosen those bolts again center it and put shims in. Clearing about 1/3 of an acre an hour with my machine, but i am piling the trees down in the low spot so the farmer can farm the higher areas where the trees are. So i could increase the amount cleared if i was making multiple smaller piles. Roughly 7 acres cleared this weekend.
found a couple big rocks like these, farmer should be happy those icebergs are gone. They are definitely shank breakers.
Meteorite??
I wish, id be rich. It's just a big bloody rock. Looks like the glaciers came through here and dragged over top of or dragged these rocks because they have fairly flat surfaces. I found another one today that has a table top flat face on it. If he doesn't want these rocks im gonna take them home. See if a landscaping place will want them.
So obviously is not a problem to get real stiff woody and get your rocks off!!!
time for lunch
Well, guess he's cleared enough for this year, left my machine there yesterday. But worked out to have cleared 25.87 acres of land, averaging between 1/4 and 1/3 acre per hour. Here's a google images shot of what i all did. Tomorrow i'm going to be taking my breaking disc there for him to use breaking the land i just did, and then I'm going to take my rock rake there after so we can try it out. Going to give him a little promotion to try it out for a little bit to see if it works for him then give him the option to rent it out. Either way i get to see if it does what i want it to or not. That way i can either rent it out, or sell it to free up some money. 104679.77 m² | 0.10 km² | 25.87 acres | 10.47 hectares | 1126763.67 feet² | 0.04 square miles | 0.03 square nautical miles
Need here is to rent a mid sized Ex and remove some overgrowth trees, build some brush piles and burn under snowfall during winter. Have several old fence row buildups of cedars where have steel in them and worthless for anything but a burn pile. Also have several groves of Honey Locust that just Need To Go Away!! Would rent a loader but the Ex would take less time. Also need to get FSA(Our Farm Service Admin) out to review a erosion ditch along a property line fence, see what they can do for the two properties IF can do anything financially. Once the locust are down and burned the roots will sapling up, a good round of Pasture Clear or the Trifecta 2-4-D, Tordon and Crossbow mixed pint pint pint to 15 gallon water to eradicate them.
Rented out my breaking disc to the land owner. He’s pulling it with his little tractor 375 Steiger, their big tractor is a 550 Steiger. Discs seems to work good in the bush land I cleared. Really cuts up the roots. Can hear the rocks that I missed though.
got my disc back and picked up those rocks. Killed another deck board ugh Can see it at the back there. Did get a few rocks though lol see if landscaping places might want them or if I sold them to some city people haha
Long time no post, was so busy this summer working on the farm, being laid up with a bad back, then harvesting all fall. Finally got back in the saddle and cleared more land. On the same land as last year. I Cleared another 27 acres, just picked up my machinery today. If you're curious to see how it went, i recorded them on youtube and made a playlist. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2rt0B7ATPKUbfPDq3zsFnxtAAju1wSGO
The bush down at the bottom took me a few days to complete. Was a pretty good chunk of land. But it did open up a huge amount of easy acres. The bottom is 7.21 aces I made 3 burn piles with 7 acres of trees. You could imagine the piles are, rather large. haha.
Just finished another job https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2rt0B7ATPKVUEQHjRO3dHEli4IctaDHP One thing i did notice, is that fuel consumption is going up. High idling now gets a slight fuel haze out of the exhaust. Which it never use to do. Air filters are cleaned after every job. And were just recently replaced 320 hours ago, along with the fuel filter. I use to be able to push my luck and get 12 hours out of a tank of fuel. Now i'm pushing it for 11.
Sounds as have a nozzle or more going south. Easier getting them out and checked now then after eat a piston from washout.
When i say slight fuel haze, i mean the only time you can see it is if it is directly in the sunlight. If its cloudy you cant see it. It's not blue, or white, it's greyish black soot.
Still suspect a nozzle not atomizing properly
Would make sense if fuel consumption is up. I don't diesel varies much other than winter and summer blend. Gas on the other hand seems to vary quite a bit on fuel consumption. I think they alter the additives and it can make quite a difference.
Would it be from injectors being worn? Or dirty, i have taken out my LB7 Duramax injectors disassembled and cleaned in my ultrasonic cleaner to get by. But if the injector is straight worn out not much one can do unless there is a source for new replacement parts. Bosch has a stranglehold on the manufacturing for the LB7 injectors i couldn't find replacement ball and seat in the injector. So had to buy new injectors. I've also noticed that cold weather starting has gotten a little harder. This 3306 has been the best cold starting diesel ive seen. Use to fire up first rotation. But now it takes a second or two of cranking and chugs a little when cold. In my truck i notice almost 10% difference in fuel consumption summer vs winter fuel. But my comparisons are both between winter fuel.
3306 uses nozzles rather than electronic injectors. They have a pop-off pressure of something like 2500 psi. With age they sometimes pop early or don't close completely. The orifices also tend to get bored out a bit with age, which changes the spray pattern and doesn't atomize the fuel as well, but they tend to run strong. I believe pulling the nozzles and having a pop-off test done might be a good idea, or just replace them as the labor cost will have been paid for at that point.
I was thinking that the nozzle tip would get worn over time. Being high idle for 10-12 hours a day when I run it, a lot harder then a light vehicle’s highway cruise speeds. Pulling the injectors on the engine doesn’t look bad at all. Access is the issue though. Double line nuts, and injector hold downs. Then a 90 degree pry bar wiggle them out. Way easier then an LB7 duramax. It’ll have to wait till spring. I don’t plan on taking any more jobs this winter with the frost already 6-10” down. Temperatures are going down to highs of -18*C from now on it appears. And I don’t have a shop big enough to work on it in.
Long time since i posted in here but been having back issues so been slow going, mainly just focused on the farm this year. We are building a big heated shop and did do some work with my machinery preparing, stripped a 80x100' section of top soil, removed a dozen trees in the area. Made a dam in the old creek bed to try and prevent water from flowing into the feeding area for our cattle. Had to dig up the farm waterlines from the well with my track hoe to re arrange and move them from underneath where our building is going to be. turned out to be a 30x20' hole 8 feet deep so we could organize the mess of generations of wells and water lines. Backfilled the hole with my track loader, compacted it with the packer i built. Had to put in an extra 100' of water line to go around the building not underneath it. Then dug a 13' deep hole to put in a 840 gallon concrete septic tank and then 100' trench 8 feet down for the pump out. Backfilled that trench with my track loader as well. After that i had to build up the pad for the building which is going to be 80' long and 60' wide, and then an additional 16' lean for the office and storage/mechanical room. So it was quite a big pad, 120' long and 80' wide. had to add around 16" of clay at the front where the big door is going to be, and then 3.5' or so of clay at the back in the pasture to get it flat. Did it in multiple lifts of 10" with compacting with my pad foot every lift. Used my grader and a newly acquired Rugby 620 laser to get the entire pad very very close to being completely flat. it's all within 1" for sure. This has been over the course of the last 2 months, with a bad back i had to do everything in moderation. The crew coming to build the shop should be here before frost to put up our building. But now to my track loader, i noticed that the belly pan was wet, so i took the pans off and seen there was quite the mess underneath. There was a small hose that led from the one drive motor to a hardline which i guess went to the cooler. That was dumping oil out. And leaking when parked. But on top of that, there was the 4 large main drive motor hoses that came from the pumps to the motors. They all seemed like they were leaking from either the square cut o-ring seals, or the reusable fittings where the sleeves go on overtop. So while we are fortunate enough to have amazing weather for the middle of October, i tore those 5 hoses off and went into cat to get them to rebuild them. One was too long, and it would hit the frame so had to drive all the way back to get them to make it 1.5" shorter, which now it fit perfectly. The other hose on the other side was too long as well but i was able to rotate the fitting to take up the slack and not hit the frame or the other hose so it will stay clear. My main question is for anyone who knows how to prime the drive motors/pumps so not to run them dry. I called cat, and when i went there i asked to talk to anyone in service but at 4:30 no one was even there anymore. My 973c is left sitting outside belly pans off, hoses all back on it and together, new hydrostatic filter, and full reservoir, but I'm worried starting it and driving it without priming or purging the air will damage the motors.
Don't know if it would apply to a 973 but when replacing a drive motor on my skid steer the manual says to crank the engine for 20 seconds or so several times without starting it to prime everything. A 973 may have a bleed screw or other specific instructions for priming the drive system.
I was thinking it must have a bleeder screw that one would have to open. But i wasn't wanting to open a port with a relief or check ball or something in it and lose it. I did leave the fuel off and cranked it for a few seconds to see if the level went down. And it did go down. But it came back up slowly. So i'm thinking there is an air pocket that compressed and then bled the pressure back into the tank.
PM Cmark, he is THE man on Hydro Cats
I dont remember seeing anything noted in the service manual on the 953. I need to look again. I have blown several of the drive motor hoses and lost all the oil. I just filled it back up, let the machine go on low idle and never had an issue. That does not mean that was correct but thats how i did it. I also had a small metal line that got a hole in it down there and it was a brake line that had to be replaced. It was hard to locate the leak I could not see where the oil was coming from. I had to put a piece of card board down in the belly to figure out where it was coming out of.
Yeah im sure the 953 and 973 would be different procedures. You could probably work the hydraulics and leave the unit idle with the 53 and purge the air out little bit at a time. But the 73 has separate systems for the drives, separate pumps and separate motors. I checked the level this morning and it was still exactly where it was last night. Cat finally called me back and left me a voice mail that the pumps don't have a priming procedure since they have an open line from the tank. But he forgot to mention anything about the drive motors. I had to do something similar with my machine to find exactly where the leaks were coming from, i took the belly pans off, everything was completely covered with oil so i pressure washed everything nicely. And went and parked it on the gravel. But then had to use it the next day so i ran it a bit to backfill and then got all the leaks covered with dirt. Good thing i barely needed to run it because that one hose was a consistent stream of oil coming off it. Here's a picture of the pad i built. Sorry for the lame picture, but i was in a hurry to get my grader ready to go and do a couple jobs today. Had to quickly cut a pad for some liquid fertilizer tanks, and then go 30km north and start cleaning out some drainages in a few fields.
943 thru 973, OG and B series all have similar drive systems. 353 thru 973 C series and up all have similar drive systems. What they all have in common is that the drive motors don't rotate when the machine is stationary. They all have the drive loop pressurised at charge pressure when the engine is running, which will eventually fill the motor case through internal leakage. If you run the engine for 5 or so minutes until the oil level stabilises, I would be very confident that the motor cases are full of oil. This does not apply to the pumps which rotate as soon as the engine starts. If you're installing a new pump(s), it's important to fill the case first.
Pumps were untouched, just the main pressure lines were replaced. The pumps should still be full of oil since the tank was not drained. My main concern is if the main pressure lines between the pumps and the motors are empty, when a person goes to move even slightly the pumps will either push air or oil/air mix in large amounts through the drive motors. The pumps did not leak any oil through with the lines off and oil in the tank. The drive motors had a constant drip through some other line, maybe cooler or case drain? I will try and start it in the morning, without moving the machine and see how much the level goes down. I know i did drain down the cooler some because there was a little line from the drive motor that went to a large hardline and it constantly drained oil out until i plugged it. Thank you Cmark
I believe you're overthinking this a little.
You're probably not wrong, machine has been good to me, and i didn't want to give it any reasons not to. lol
Managed to get things sorted out, went out and started the loader, watched the level go down like you said Cmark. Monitored the level, checked the machine for leaks. All seemed to be well. The oil started to get quite a bit of microbubbles in it looking at the sight glass. So i turned it off and let everything settle while i ate lunch. Came back out, went underneath checked for leaks. Nothing, so i topped up the level and then let the machine idle for 10 minutes. The level kept going down, and down. So i added more, started to clean up tools. And when i was coming out of the shop, there was a nice puddle underneath the machine. Turns out i managed to wreck an o ring while installed one of the hoses. And it just HAD to be the worst hose to have happen to. One of the middle upper hoses, and the fitting at the pump. So way up there, and in between everything, as well on the right side of the machine so the hard lines were in the way as well. The hoses are so rigid and not liking to be bent so i had to take the half flanges off and lucky i was able to get at the oring from the top and change it. But getting it the hose back to its home on the pump was another story. Put the one half flange on so that if i was able to get the hose back the flange would hold the hose there. Took a heat gun and heated up the hose to try and make it more flexible. Then grabbed the hose at the fitting and hung myself on the hose to barely get it to bend down enough to get around the bolts and the flange. But i was able to get it all back together. Then replaced the oil i dumped on the ground. But i did confirm the hoses were full of oil. So that made me feel better, other then the oil going down my sleeve, even with a rag tied around my wrist. Lucky for me because it snowed 2-3 inches last night. I wouldn't want to be doing that outside right now in the snow. I also took the whole assembly off for the quick start bottle. Put it in the shop. Drilled a hole in the tank, there was the tiniest little bit of pressure in the bottle. Then clamped it in the vice and took two 24" pipe wrenches to get it apart. Aluminum adapter threads, with a steel bottle threaded into it... Corrosion. The threads are toast, they turned into that white and grey mushy paste. I tried to clear it out with a pick, there is just not enough threads left on the adapter to get it to hold. I took the whole thing apart. And all i need is the aluminum adapter piece that goes from the brass plunger/shaft body to the tank. But cat doesn't sell that separately. And i need one so it was the wonders of $209 for the whole thing. Seized ether start solenoid The one I linked to is the NSN/part number called out by the A1R/A1P2 parts manual as fitting trucks with serial numbers above 100,623 The older valve is part number QS5-5CTP or NSN 4810-01-442-8695 The older trucks used two intake "atomizers" while the C7 trucks use one. They are not the same... www.steelsoldiers.com This person on a different forum had the exact same problem with the corroded threads coming right off when taken apart. It's hard to believe that one could not make replaceable parts. Poor design to have an aluminum adapter like that Should've all been brass.
Sounds about like a drive hose I had to do on one of my 53's. 3 trips to cat. $1000.00 to replace a hose and fluid . Now it would probably be $1500.00 Cat had turn the fitting a degree or 2 more, and shorten the hose twice. The spec hose would not go. I suspect my engine mounts were off from factory new. They adjusted it with no extra charges it just took 3 trips to the hose shop. The 2 piece flange design is pretty good. If it weren't for the flexibility in that I would have never got it on. Moving the line was like wresting a piece of steel.
Why is a 973 hard to move? They are under 10ft wide and only ~27 tons. That's a 175-$200/hr move here. My 977 is no fuss to move, it's about the same size.
Triple axle vs tandem axle. Weight limits on roads. Height restrictions on low bridges. Here a triple axle lowbed is twice the cost of a tandem. I was fortunate enough to find a triple axle trailer at auction as a repo, and had to dump the same amount of money into it to get it safetied.
I bought 3 pails of oil so i would for sure have enough, and have some extra. Lucky i only had to dump one pail in, i didn't lose too much oil. But after my mistake of dumping oil out that one pinched seal, i cracked a second pail and dumped a couple gallons in. The reusable fittings saved me a ton of money. To get permanent fittings it was $600 a hose, and to do the 4 it was $2,400. But reusing my fittings and getting the little cooler hose made it, it only cost $1,110. And then $575 worth of oil. If i was smart, i would've taken off the other long hose, and brought them both in to get shortened that 1.5" because i am very happy with how it fit after the shortening. 3/4" of clearance from everything now. I'm also a huge fan of the two piece flange design. There's no way one could get a wrench other then a crowfoot up there to tighten or loosen it. Plus fighting with getting the fittings lined up perfectly straight to start the threads would've been impossible. Not to mention the size of the fittings can be that much shorter. and more compact.
Hardly anyone runs tandem lowboys here. 15ft max height on loads, bridges are at least that.
You boys live N of the 49th, Tandems here still rule, Heavy Hauler required to move a 977 or a 973, 963 is still touchy/heavy but see them on tandems pretty often with Permitting. Tri Axle trailers and Drop axle tractors ONLY for 973s.
Well, got the new ether valve, installed that with the new tank. Seems to work as advertised again. Got even more snow, every day it's snowed at least some. Probably have had half a foot so far. Drifts up past the knees in places. I bought one of those cheap chinese diesel air heaters thats self contained. I was hoping that it would fit in the side panel of my machine so i could route the air into the main body of the machine and warm the engine/pumps if i tarped the top of the engine compartment but afraid it wont fit. So it looks like i'll have to go back and buy one of those permanently mounted ones and mount it down low under the engine. But this may work to my advantage a little bit more. I deleted the EGR system on my Duramax and kept the EGR cooler. So what i was going to do was mount the EGR cooler vertically underneath the cheap air heater. And then run a coolant line from somewhere on the engine to the EGR cooler. That way the extremely hot air from the exhaust of the air heater can be utilized to heat the coolant for the engine at the same time. What i don't want is to have a plastic fuel tank at the back of the machine by the engine. Fire hazard for sure. So i'll have to take a look on the fuel system if there is a plug or something on any of the adapters or the filter head to put a check valve into so the heater can just suck from the fuel tank of the machine. And then I'll need a battery to run it off of as well. I do NOT want to run the heater off my machines battery for risk of draining it in winter and not being able to spin over the engine fast enough to get it started. Having an air heater pump hot air onto the pumps, and heat the coolant at the same time would make my machines life that little bit easier. Anyways, yesterday i managed to get the belly pans put back on my machine by myself, snow on the ground. Took a while, but frozen ground makes it easier to drag those stupid things across the frozen rocks. Today i took my excavator off my trailer from digging out beside someone's house for them to do water proofing a couple weeks ago. It went from 22 degrees Celsius(71f) to -15c(5f) in 3 days. Got my track loader on the trailer to take to another job to try and build a pad for some grain bins before it really freezes us out. It's got snow and caragana bushes on top of where its going to be built so im not worried about the frost being too much to dig through. But the piles of gravel are going to be quite frozen now. I did another pad a couple days ago with my grader in the same yard, and there was 6-8" of frost in the piles already, and it was -20c last night. so I can't imagine it being less then 8" thick now. I'll have to remove the trees/bushes, take my grader rip the roots with the ripper, then strip the top soil. relocate it to a pile beside the shelterbelt. Then bucket by bucket take gravel from the pile to the pad and grade/level it. I don't have a double steel roller, or a wobbly tire roller yet. So i'll have to use my grader to compact this one as well.
its 80* here today!
Must be nice, it rained the day it was freezing, so the ground is now frozen wet. Which is never a good thing in spring time. Everything becomes slop. If we get that warm up here now it's going to cause so many problems. Only thing we can hope for is dry weather so it can freeze dry whatever it can get at in the soil through the snow. But snow is such a good insulator regardless i think we are destined for failure haha.
Just finished a job two days ago building a gravel pad for some grain bins. Used my 973c and champion grader to do it. Cleared a row of trees that would've been in the way of the bin pad, took my grader with the ripper and ripped the roots so they hopefully wont come back. I had a bunch of gravel stockpiled just to the east probably 30-40 feet away from the beginning of the pad. The pad was about 200 feet long, and 25 feet wide. With a small drainage ditch between the existing row of bins and the new pad so they can install a drainage tile next year. I stripped the top soil and organic off the surface stockpiled it at the end with my track loader. Then i went bucket by bucket hauling the gravel onto the pad. And let me say that if anyone remembers the modulation issue i was running into before with lack of fine control lowering the arms down. Well with a heaping bucket of gravel. Modulation was absolutely terrible. With a full bucket of gravel up at eye level in the cab. I could push the joystick forward 1/4" and it would start to slowly go down, but as soon as the bucket pins get lower then the top loader arm pins by the cab. It drops the bucket as if I'm mashing the joystick into the detent. Maximum speed for dropping. I'm starting to wonder if the pressure from the loader arm cylinders is being fed into the pilot system and compounding with my pilot pump pressure and opening the valve far more then i am commanding? Is there a port/regulator/valve that controls the flow that could be faulty?
Today i got my old batteries out of the machine. They've been in there since i bought it back in 2015. They let me down the other day so they had to get replaced. Under the batteries there was quite a bit of rust on the tray. So i hit it with the air hammer, needle scaler, and wire wheel and painted with rust paint really heavy to try and act like a barrier. Then i got started on trying to figure out a mounting system for the diesel heater i bought. I got one of those cheap chinese ones. It's only an air heater though. I wanted to go this route because i want to be able to blow the hot air on the pumps and everything under the cab. It's enclosed quite well in there so i feel the air might be able to take the chill off. Even if it keeps it just above freezing i'd be happy with that. I also knew i had my old EGR cooler i removed off my duramax. I could utilize the still hot exhaust gases to go through the EGR cooler to heat the coolant. There's not much open real estate on this machine. Everything is packed in there quite snug. But i did find a place where i could fit in both the diesel heater, and the EGR cooler in a vertical position. I opted to go vertical mounting so that hopefully the heating will cause the coolant to circulate enough. But i'm concerned with the height the EGR is mounted that it's too high up to be functional. I need to figure out how i'm going to mount the diesel air heater itself. Looking at the body panel mounting bolt i'm probably going to try and utilize that. and maybe the cabin air filter door bolts. Can't remember if there's anything else i can use. I also need to find a coolant hose that's low to take and put it to the bottom of the EGR cooler. and somewhere i can put the coolant back into the engine. I think there's a plug on the bottom of the aftercooler that would be perfect to put a threaded barb into. That way it would also heat the air in the intake making an easier start. I'll have to do some more digging. And for the fuel line, i'm not 100% sure where i'm going to be able to grab fuel from. I was hoping there was going to be an obvious spot where would be best. But i do not want to grab fuel from before the injection pump. I don't want to compromise reliability of the feed line. I was hoping that the fuel return i could tap into somewhere that way it's not critical for engine function. If something happens i can easily just plug it and go about my business. Not be stuck with a no start or engine issues.
I am sure you know, but i melted a few parts using one of those. Getting the air to spread out and stay warm is a trick I have yet to master.
I never read this post before. I want to see your experience now. The air heater i bought i picked out one with 4 smaller output nozzles instead of the one larger one. That way i could route one hose to each pump area, one at the hydrostatic tank, and then the other i dont know, just under there somewhere haha. I was banking on the coolant heating to be enough with the EGR cooler to run it into the aftercooler and heat the intake air and then maybe enough to keep the block from being freezing. Since the hydraulic pumps turn all the time when the engine is going, if a person could keep those warm, and the engine oil. Then have warm air in the intake. Starting it would be a non issue in any temperatures. Working out in the bush i have zero way to plug it in for an electric coolant heater. Not sure how cold it gets in Georgia, but in the winters here the coldest temperature i run my equipment in is -25c(-13f). Any colder then that is asking for breakdowns, and breakdowns one wouldn't want to fix when its that cold. So easier to just wait for warmer temps to work.
You certainly don't want to be having to fix stuff when it's -25C.
Did that once... Literally just once though. Main hydraulic hose from the hydraulic pump to the valve body blew. Kicked my feet up off the floor of the machine. Lucky for me i had the bucket tilted down and off the ground so i could get the panels off to change it. I didn't like how high that EGR cooler was mounted So I cut the mount off and extended the mounting bracket down 9.5" with some C channel. So now the top of the cooler is a couple inches above where the bottom use to be. Should give the coolant more lift to pull i hope. I also mounted the diesel heater itself. If you see the bracket my extension cord is wrapped around for my oil pan heater. I made a 5" drop bracket and welded on 10" of the same C channel and cut out the shape from the template in the kit so i could mount the air heater right there above the cooler. I was trying to make another support for the top of the EGR cooler but it got dark out and i cross threaded a bolt into the frame that i had to chase so i called it quits. I do have a question for anyone if they know. The fuel return line coming off of the front of the injection pump. Would that be a suitable place to get my fuel feed line for my heater? Or will it start sucking air once the fuel line is emptied? It has a hose clamp on the one end so i could easily just T into the line right there which is only a foot or two away from the diesel air heater. And the plug on the side of the aftercooler is a lot smaller then i'd hoped... Hard to find two ports that are big enough to flow enough coolant and that would be on opposite sides of the block and at the proper height.
My cat dealer is no help unless you are paying them. Called and asked what ports they use when installing a coolant heater. And if the fuel return line would be an acceptable place to take fuel for the heater. And got the answer, "we don't usually tell people, we usually just send someone out to install it for you" Well, i'm not really interested in paying someone to finish the job when i'm 90% done it already. All i need to know is the best two ports to use. So i can get the fittings and appropriate amount of 5/8" heater hose to install.
That's a really crappy way to treat a customer. All your asking is where to hook up a heater. It might be worth calling a different Cat dealer. Maybe say the heater was disconnected because it needed to be fixed but you'd like to hook it up again and just need to know what lines can be used.
It’s such short sighted thinking for a dealer to act like that. I have zero patience for a dealer like that. From my experience, as a small customer of Cat long ago, they couldn’t care less about helping me, so that was the first and last Cat I’d ever own.
They probably just don't know. I called a part guy at cat today he seemed so green. You just need to keep asking until you get someone more experienced.
Sometimes if you go and talk to someone in person they are much more helpful. I can't remember what it was for but I went to Finning and someone in service took me in the back and let me look through the proper manual to find what I was looking for. I think it might have been for something on the backhoe. No one there had ever seen a D3/931B backhoe before so at least they helped me about the best they could.
We move a 45 ton feller buncher on 6 axles.
I'm on the same page as Georgia right now. It's getting to be that time where all the people who use to work on these older engines are retiring. Every service advisor i've talked to at finning sounds young. They probably can't even picture what a 3306 is. They couldn't even tell me if the fuel return line goes down into the tank and returns the fuel by the fuel pickup or not. If the cat dealership was only a couple minutes away for sure i'd just go and ask and show them pictures. But I did get help from someone else on another forum he had found a picture of a 3306 with an electric circulatory heater on it and gave me an idea of what two plugs i could use would be. But as you can see, having access to the plugs is not very fun. First picture is the limited access the battery is at cylinder head level. The second picture is the highest port that i could find. But wiggling any kind of fitting in there and attaching a hose without draining the coolant(i dont want to) would not be fun.I could unbolt the bracket holding the rubber hose in front out of the way, but that hardline right behind it is the issue. The lower line that would be the suction is down between the ROPS support and the block. And on the other side the hydrostatic tank is in the way. I can barely see the port from between the tank and the ROPS support. I'm getting to the point where for this year i might just tie into the heater core since the lines are right there and i could at least have a warm cab. Any any extra heat that makes it through can go into the block.
It so hard to wrap my mind around snow. Please let it snow here. It hit 85 and the mosquitoes tried to carry me out of the deer stand
Haha you'd like it for a day, but after that you'd be sick of the cold unless you got a winter hobby. We go through some extremes here. 40c in the summer to -40c in the winter. The cold lasts longer then the warm though. Oh thats 100f to -40f for you. Usually one week of the real hot, and 3-4 weeks of the real cold.
Just armchair quarterbacking here but why are you against draining the coolant ?
Normally nothing, but currently the conditions i'd have to do it in. I dont have a shop big enough to do it in. And outside the grounds frozen and now thawed, then got 1/2" of rain on it, now 6-8" of snow. So getting under the machine to drain the 11 gallons of coolant is not ideal. I was going to do the whole thing where you cut the bottom of a 5 gallon pail out to fit the tank and then stick a vacuum on the pail to try and pull the maneuvers off.
I have installed a few of the diesel burning espar coolant heaters on 3306 engines and I either tap into the primary fuel filter or go right to the tank for fuel supply. As far as coolant hookup goes the 3306 is one of the hardest engines to get good ports for flow on. With the espar it has enough pump flow of coolant that you can tap into the heater hoses and it will heat the engine. I would recommend you look into the espar or webasto coolant heater for your machine and then use that egr cooler with hot coolant pumped through it from the espar to create hot air to blow on the trans/ hydraulic area. Another suggestion is if you are starting that hydrostat at -25 you should probably be putting arctic hydraulic oil in it.
A multigrade TO-4 would probably be as good as any if you don't want the faff of changing oils between summer and winter. One option would be Cat TDTO-TMS or a commercial equivalent such as Chevron Delo TorqForce MP which is SAE 10W/40. Another (and probably better option) would be Cat TDTO Cold Weather or Chevron Del TorqForce Synthetic which is SAE 0W/20.
The heater i have is actually an Air heater, and I'm just trying to scavenge the waste heat from the exhaust to heat coolant as well. I have two, one permanently mounted units that i'm putting in the machine and then one of those self contained ones in the red tin can. And using that one the exhaust seems to put out more heat then the hot air. I have noticed that there is not any larger coolant plugs on the injection pump side, which i was hoping there was going to be since its more open then the oil cooler side. Right now i want to stick with the cheap Chinese one because it only cost $220 and want to see if blowing warm air at the pumps, and then at the block will even help. The less electricity and power drain one has on the batteries in the cold the better. I have a constant drain on the batteries that i already can't track down, i have a feeling its the alternator itself. So i just turn off the master every night. I run the cold weather 0w-40 in the engine oil, and then hydo 10 for the hydrostatic and hydraulic.
It appears as though you have the engine covered but you might probably be better switching to the 0W/20 TO-4 for the hystat & hydraulic systems for improved cold weather starting.
FWIW we run 10 WT hydro in our 953C and it takes a minute to let the system warm up when it's cold down here. Cold I mean 20-30 degrees F.
At 30ºF ippielb is probably just thinking about putting on a long sleeve shirt!
That was the point of my post...
Would that be okay for summertime use as well when the highs are sometimes up to 40 degrees Celsius? I'm hoping having the warm air from this heater hitting the pumps it will keep that oil nice and warm and loose so the engine can spin over faster initially and get that first pop. When it's -20c up here the pumps sure make a different noise comparatively to when they're warm. Our temperatures are at or colder then your cold for 5 months of the year. I still wonder why my ancestors stopped where they did. And why we've stayed here haha When its that warm in spring time i'm wearing a t shirt and shorts almost. In fall early winter when its that cold i'm wearing a sweater and sweating underneath it lol
Well, I decided to just hook up the coolant lines so the EGR cooler I have is directly in line. Put a temporary water bottle filled with diesel as the fuel source. The kit came with two extendable hoses for the hot air output. I have one pointed at each hydrostatic pump, the other two are just left open for now because that’s all they gave was 2 pieces of pipe. The air that comes out isn’t even really that hot. The exhaust that comes out is WAY hotter than the hot air. The EGR cooler gets very hot, and the water in the hose going up to the heater core may burn you if you got it on you for too long. Seems weird that the water going into the heater core is that hot, but the return line for the heater core is still cold. Do you think the heater core would dissipate the heat that much that the water leaving wouldn’t even be warm at all? But I probably don’t have my heater control set to maximum hot in the cab. So that valve inside the climate control area is probably barely cracked open. Hence the really hot EGR cooler, and the heater hose pre heater core. I also took off my fuel return line and was going to tie into it for a feed line for the heater but I don’t have the proper fittings or hose. The return line hose is absolutely garbage cracking and deteriorated so I’m going to get a new one made. It’s a JIC fitting with a 90° fitting. But in the hose itself just before the fitting there seems to be a blockage. The air compressor barely blows through it. Is this by design to have a restriction on the return line? Edit: Having problems finding the actual return line itself, but i found the part the line gets attached to. 3J-7352 Edit 2: Found it 166-1725
Yes it would. You are only using a 10W now so when it’s hot outside you would have the additional benefit of a 20 oil to withstand the higher ambient temperature. On top of that you would be going down from a 10W to a 5W at the cold end of the scale that would help with your cold starts in winter. Win-win.
If the diesel heater/coolant heater doesn't help aid in starting as much as i'd hoped. Then my next oil change will be with the TDTO TMS oil. Today i went into the city and grabbed some fittings to replace the fuel return line since cat has indirectly replaced it. I'll get that made up and hook the fuel up to my diesel heater. Looking at the parts diagram the fuel return line goes into the tank well lower then the fuel pickup enters. So even if the return goes straight in and doesn't have a tube lowering it to the bottom of the tank. I fill up my machine every night when i'm done. It will have plenty of fuel to feed into the diesel heater with its built in pump. There's no reason for that old fuel return to have such a restriction on it, so i just went and bought the 1/4" JIC 90 degree fitting that you're suppose to crimp onto a hydraulic hose. I'm going to cut the sleeve that you're suppose to crimp off. And just run a hose clamp and a chunk of 1/4" fuel line. I also got a 1/4" brass T so i can run the fuel line up to my fuel pump and fuel heater. I'm curious if the fuel return being restricted was forcing excess fuel through the injectors and causing my fuel consumption in increase. This is just speculation of course. My next course of action is to figure out how to power the heater. I'm probably going to have to just bring a battery with me every day to leave at the machine. I don't really feel comfortable draining one of the two batteries on the machine to run the heater since its a 12v diesel heater, and im too cheap to spend $200 on a 24v step down to 12v box thing. I have a job lined up for the machine i could take it to tomorrow but i haven't quite finished buttoning up the heater install. Farmer hired a company to do some land clearing on a quarter section. There was only 110 cultivated acres on that field, the rest was slough and bush. So they ended up pushing around 30 acres of bush with mixed slough in it as well. Took him 2 week he said. But they did it with a dozer with a root rake in either the end of november or beginning of december. They want me to come in and clean up the mess thats left. They burnt some of the piles from last year, there's not much dirt in them which is good. But the piles were not piled and stacked. Just bunched together, and i can tell just from walking around, through the snow i can see tons of smaller stumps and branches and limbs left everywhere. Not ideal situation for them, they couldn't even farm 90% of what was cleared. I'll go in with my excavator and my track loader and bring all the left overs together and then dig a nice deep hole to bury everything in. All of my jobs i've done clearing the farmers have seeded everything that was dry the very next year. I'm curious to see what they got charged.
TDTO-TMS IS A 10W/40, so no better at the cold end of the scale than the straight 10W that you are using now. If you go with a Cat product you would need Arctic TDTO synthetic that is an 0W/20. Commercial oils from companies such as Chevron generally appear to be 5W/20 but there may be other 0W/20 TO-4 options out there. TBH I didn’t look.
For your location Petro Canada "Produro TO-4 XL Synthetic Blend Lo-Temp 0W/20" (what a mouthful...!!) would also appear to be an option. https://petrocanadalubricants.com/en-ca/brand/produro-to-4-plus-xl-synthetic-blend-lo-temp
Petro Canada is where i get all my oils for my other equipment, so i'm not afraid to run it. Good supplier for me, they probably wouldn't have it in stock so next oil change i'll look into cost comparison between the hydo 10, and the mouthful Produro TO-4 XL Synthetic Blend Lo-Temp 0W/20. The only thing i'll have to be aware of is the 40c amibent. Does that include humidity? It gets over 40 with humidity, and rarely over 40 without.
It should be fine. Petro Canada is known for hydro-treating their oils and are very popular with large commercial and mining contractors. After a little research I used Petro Canada oil when I replaced a wheel motor in the skid steer. Price was around the same as other name brands. It also comes in 20L pails instead of 18.9L pails (which is 5 US gallons) so you get a little more bang for your buck. I needed 2 pails and that extra 2 litres is just what I needed to get the proper level in the tank.
Forgot to post a little update on the diesel heater thing. I made up a new fuel return line, and put in a T to try and run the diesel heater off the return seeing that the return line goes into the side of the tank, not the top i thought it would be far enough down that i could get fuel for the heater. I guess my fuel level isn't high enough at 3/4 of a tank. The heater ran for 15 minutes before the pump stopped pumping fuel to the heater. So tomorrow morning i'm going to try and fill up the tank all the way and try again. Maybe i'll need to have a full tank for it to siphon out. And still didn't get the coolant to flow from the EGR cooler. But after doing some digging i found that the parts diagram shows that i have the EGR cooler HOT line going to the wrong pipe for the heater core. I have it on the return line. I'm not sure if the valve on the heater core to select your heat range is a check valve as well. But when the heater is going the line going to the valve is extremely hot, and then the other line is cold. Turns out i have the lines hooked up backwards. I attached the COLD side to the heater from the line just above the water pump. And the hot side to the valve on the heater core. I should've hooked up the COLD side of the heater to the line from the oil cooler, and then the HOT side to the heater core coil line. Which is the way the water flows through the heater core. I had thought it it backwards. So tomorrow i'll have to cut a new line to fit to the oil cooler, but it should suck water from the oil cooler, heat the water, put it up through the heater core, then it will fall down to the water pump housing and it will hopefully go through the block trying to get back to the oil cooler. The bright side with putting them onto the heater core lines is that they already have taps on them. So if something on the EGR cooler or the lines i put on do leak. I can just turn off the valves and not lose all my coolant. I used petro for all the fluids in my excavator. engine, complete hydraulic drain and fill, cleaned out the tank even. Both final drives and the swing gear were all from petro. My grader i cheaped out a little bit. The hydraulic tank was so low that all i did was just changed the filter and topped it up with a couple pails of fluid. I still have to replace the moldboard slide cylinder and rebuild one of the vertical blade lift cylinders before i go crazy and drain everything completely, if oil can get out. Dirt can get in, i don't want to contaminate a full new oil change. But i did drain the transmission completely, and the engine and put new oils in. Still have to do the diff, and the tandems after i change those wheel seals.
The 40 ambient is not a hard & fast limit, like if it gets to 41 you have to stop working humidity or not. Depending on how big your local distributor is I would be surprised if they didn’t have it. Right now you are using a 10W. A switch to an 0W/20 would give you the benefits of the 20 over the 10 when the temperature gets hot, and in the opposite direction the benefit of the 0W over the 10 for cold starts in conditions that really no same person would want to live in. As I mentioned before, win-win.
The end of this post got a chuckle out of me. I never claimed to be sane. haha If anyone finds this thread looking to put a coolant heater on their 3306, after trying to make the circulatory heater on the heater core lines in both directions, the heater core won’t let the coolant go through. Im assuming the heater valve only gets water through under pressure. There was no reason for it not to go through. I had to get a few different adaptors to hook my lines up like the picture above. There’s no room to work so I couldn’t get the lower hose hooked up to the larger port that they used. Instead I used the slightly smaller port beside it which I had an adapter for. Then a 90° hose to angle it down and took the heater hose below the engine to the other side to hook it up to my EGR cooler that’s being used as the coolant heater. The hot line goes overtop of the engine along the two heater core lines and then goes into the head at the larger 1/2” NPT plug. Initially there was an air pocket in the hot line but after bleeding it out the coolant started flowing quite well for the size of the fittings. Shouldn’t take very long to heat the block up. Now to try it when temperatures drop again, I’m just glad I was able to get the main install done while the temperature rose this week. And for the fueling, i topped up my tank on the machine with my slip tank. Then after playing around with the heater lines all morning I let the heater run for an hour and a half and it kept going. The first time it started sucking air in less then 20 minutes. So i think having the full tank keeps the return line under the fuel level and it can run on that. The only downside is the only way the heater will work is if the machine has a full tank which isn't ideal. But for this winter it will have to do i don't know any other way to get fuel that isn't from the suction side of the fuel system and i dont want to tap into that for fear of reliability.
I found you another 73 2003 973 Caterpillar - heavy equipment - by owner - sale - craigslist 2003 973 Caterpillar loader. runs and operates excellent, 80% on the undercarriage. new batteries, fully serviced, has two warning lights on the dash. first light is the fuel gauge, however the tank... atlanta.craigslist.org only a claimed 26,000 hours for a cool $70,000.00
Merry Christmas Everyone I think the next 973 i buy will be at least a D model, i really miss the controls being attached to the seat and the operator comfort. Not to mention a tilting cab would be ideal for repairs and yearly washing. Seeing the prices of track loaders at auctions makes me feel pretty dang good for what i paid for mine back in 2015. It's funny how all those people who were trying to talk me out of buying it, and all the doubt are no where to be found now. I've done a few jobs since i last posted. And also did a few smaller ones. Most of my fall was spent getting the pad ready for our new heated shop, for the builders not to show up. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2rt0B7ATPKXzGgvHXO-g4h6upHmpNc1K https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2rt0B7ATPKXAW99j2G_gz8cGCNiObqgh https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2rt0B7ATPKUvbUXFPKvDExZWGL8WeQT9
I think the people that were questioning your purchasing a 973 was more of a cautionary reason. A 973 is a big heavy track loader and parts and repairs can be that much more expensive than smaller machines. You have a big advantage over some owner/operators in that you can do a lot of the repairs yourself. It has probably saved you more costly repairs going over the machine and fixing things at the first signs of trouble like the hydrostat hoses. I think a lot of non commercial (or cheap) users might try to save money by just replacing the hoses as they blow instead of being proactive and replacing all of them when they're the same age. There's also a lot of equipment owners that don't fix leaks or other problems until they become a big problem. It usually ends up backfiring and they have a bigger repair or the machine breaks down at the worst time or in the worst place like in the middle of a muddy job.
I recently stumbled across a ripper for a 973C outside Minneapolis Minnesota. It's $5,000 CAD shipping would probably be another couple grand. But my biggest concern would be to put on the new valve body with the 3rd function. And find the factory controls for an affordable price. I'm not looking to do an electric solenoid switch over thing. Want the factory lever. https://www.ritchielist.com/construction/miscellaneous-attachments-scarifier/cat-973c-ripper/7e6608b2-6adb-43b1-bf1c-d424424ce8d5.html
973 is a Beast, and Huge but valuable to those with a need. More or less a replacement for the 983, some lighter (3t)but more nimble, better visibility Bucket capacity roughly same, struck or heaped.
Made a light box for in the lower frame, kept it tight to the middle low profile so trees don’t take it out. 1/8” steel flush mount lights. Tied it into the factory lighting with a Y on the left side lower light. Bright side of LED’s drawing such little power you can just tie in off and add extra lighting. I have the lights angled in and crossing so that the tracks will not cast a dark shadow, I just wish the lights were more of a work light and not such a spot light. I’ll have to see if they make work light flood light models.
Wouldn't be a bad idea to make a bolt on guard for them. Maybe a narrow piece of grating (walk way) would work. I can see an errant branch or root taking them out when you least expect it. I get a hernia just looking at how heavy everything must be when it needs repairs.
I never thought of doing that, but I was more in a rush to get it done, have a bunch of jobs lined up, but I remembered how painful it was trying to rake. I told myself every year to build this style box but finally got around to it, have had the lights for two years. Seeing that they’re spot lights, even though when I ordered them they were listed as flood lights, I might have to buy different lights. Found these on the web, https://ledriven.ca/product/nj2030if/ they’d definitely be better. IF they fit the holes and mounting bolt holes I have already.
Once it's dark they might be fine. I put LED's on my skid steer and they turn night into day, very white light compared to halogen.
I used them tonight already, and they create very bright hot spots and dilate my pupils so now the rest of my LED lighting looks ridiculously dim because the flood lights spread out the light so much more. So now I have to upgrade all the other LED lighting. I’m thinking I’m going to get the same as I just put on my grader.
Maybe a piece of plate sticking out slightly blocking the top of them would help reduce the glare coming upwards?
It’s mainly when the light hits the bucket/ground. It’s too focused in one spot. They’d be great if they weren’t all in a 1 foot round circle. I want the light there so I can see but it’s too much. Not much glare, just all reflection. When I get a picture you’ll see what I mean. https://www.princessauto.com/en/2-pk-6-led-18w-flood-lights/product/PA0008815961 These are the lights I bought. The website says flood. But package says spot. Whoops
I got the LED's for my skid steer at Princess Auto too. They were a special purchase and a lot less expensive than lights anywhere else. Flood lights may be an improvement. Maybe painting the back of the bucket black would help too.
Well the only lights i can find that match the same hole and bolt spacing to the ones i put on of course have to be the most expensive. Rigid Industries SR-Q Pro Diffused seem to be the ticket. They will probably be brighter then the lights i have now. But at least they will be a wide beam not a spot. When i have my bucket up they should diffuse up as well. Hopefully i can find some cheap knock offs of the same light.
What about a tinted lexan or plexiglass guard to take the glare away?
the right final drive duo come seal decided to leak over the winter. Anyone have the procedure to remove the final drive handy? Split the track, remove sprocket segments, remove bolts holding final drive to frame and remove it with crane? Anything else? Thinking I’ll take it apart and replace the seal, it dripped a couple times on my last job when I put it on the trailer. But didn’t leak much over winter. And I just moved it a couple days ago and I can see it dripped now. No idea if I got something in there and froze and cut up the seal.
Was the machine laid up and not moving for a long period during this time.? If so it is quite possible for the Duo-Cone to "heal" itself when you put it back to work. If yes, then give it a good run. This will be measured in hours, not minutes.
It has been parked since December. It was dripping today every 5-8 seconds. I did have a bunch of mud and crap in there when it froze, I’ll try and wash out the area to try flush anything out I can. Then see how it does after working it for a while. I’ll have to add oil.
Get it all cleaned up, check/top up the final drive oil levels, then run the bejasus out of it. In all probability that Duo-Cone will heal up. Try not to pressure wash it too hard which might drive contamination into the space between the two steel rings of the Duo-Cone seal and could kill it in a heartbeat. Try to clean it as best you can before moving the machine.
I modified a few 973s for the steel mill can’t remember any major hystat failures the only thing I do remember some of the early ones cat had us put reinforcing plates on splitter box as they were cracking they later updated the splitter box and we changed the one we had modified
There’s how bad it leaked, I think it’ll be a replacement job. That’s terrible. But I gave it a try, pressure washed the area, then the perfectionist in me had to wash the entire machine. Only used jet flush nozzle and not a high powered one. Just to try and get as much water flow in there to bring the dirt out. I was dragging my belly pan on my last job in the mud while it was blizzarding. Not ideal conditions it took me an hour and a half to shovel the undercarriage out and it still was frozen when I picked it up the next day.
If that's 6 months of leakage then I think you need to run it a fair bit now you have it cleaned out. Certainly you will need to get the final drives up to full operating temperature and run the machine in that condition for the best part of a full shift.
That was 1 weeks leakage. Where it sat for the 6 months there wasn't even close to this amount of oil on the ground. I have no work lined up right now, i am full swing seeding on the farm. The only reason why i moved the machine is because i had it way out in the middle of the field to collect snow out there instead of in the yard over the winter. Then i came back to that puddle not even a week after i moved it.
Listen to Nige
If I can elaborate a bit more. You state that basically the machine was "put away wet" in inclement conditions of snow, mud, etc. I think what has likely happened is that some water and maybe solid material has got in between the two rotating rings of the Duo-Cone seals while they were still at operating temperature at the time the machine was shut down. When everything cooled the water froze, expanded, and stayed that way all winter. As a result of the expansion of the water the silicone rubber Toric Rings will have been compressed and taken a set because they have never been warmed up sufficiently sonce to expand and reapply the necessary pressure on the seal assembly; thus closing the gap between the seal rings and stopping the drips. To get those rubber rings to re-expand they will need to be got hot and kept that way for a minimum of a few hours. If you cannot do that right now because there is no work then I suggest that you leave the machine as it is, then we you have work for it top up the final and run it hard for an extended period of time. TBH what do you have to lose by trying.?
I’m definitely going to try and run it before tearing into it that’s for sure. I’m just not optimistic about it that’s all. You know prepare for the worst and be relieved when it’s not kinda thing. Thank you for the into about the seals needing to be warm for a few hours. That part I did not know about.
They are solicone rubber rings and if compressed into a certain shape for an extended period will take time to recover once they are warmed up. Below is a section through the seal. Two silicone rubber rings which function as springs to load the faces of the two steel rings thus keeping them together.
Another thought. Get in there either with either a phone or a mirror and check all the way around the circumference of both rings (arrowed). Can you see a crack or split in either of them.? Because if you can then your final drive will need to be disassembled. I'm wondering if whatever may have frozen in the area of the Duo-Cone seal may have created enough pressure to split something. If it comes to replacing the Duo-Cone then the complete final drive & sprocket assembly has to come off the machine and be split once it's off. One of the big reasons is that the two halves of the Duo-Cone have to be installed flat at exactly the correct high with respect to the housing within +/- nothing to ensure that the seal assembly does not leak once assembled.
This is all the oil that leaked out in 24 hours today, and temperatures got to a blistering 32 degrees, meanwhile we had snow left a week and a half ago. Maybe I’m wrong and working the machine will be enough to rejuvenate the seals. Or maybe it’s out of oil completely. Lol
Of course it couldn't be leaking roller that's much easier to repair or replace.
Side note. 32 degrees yesterday. And Saturday a high of 0. And snow.
As a fellow owner,I’d be hoping and praying that Nige is right in letting nature take its course a good bit longer before taking things apart. Like the OP,I tend to think of the worse and be super happy when things prove me wrong. In this case,I’m quite confident that your 973 will heal up after a days work .
Well I filled the final drive up yesterday, worked it for a solid 8 hours, stopped in the middle and refilled the final drive. I got it as warm as I could for as long as I could. Pushed a couple hundred yards of manure up into a row, then moved a few hundred yards of dirt I cleaned out of the creek bed and put it in a low spot to build it up. It was still leaking.
That sucks!
Yes it does, now the real work begins.
Sorry to hear it’s still leaking. I guess you’ll find out what’s in the innards of the beast. On another note,a 973 that I tidied up last year for its owner has now been sold. It turned out nice
Is it leaking less, more, or the same as it was before.? Got any photos.? I know this is not totally relevant to your situation but on new machines or rebuilt finals where the Duo-cones leaked we would generally not tear into them to investigate until the machine had clocked at least 500 hours to give the seals time to seat.
It's leaking the same as it was before, a drop every couple seconds. I put 5 gallons of oil into it to run it for 8 hours. Oil is real expensive up here, was $180 in oil to run it for that long. It quickly leaks out the oil down to the duo cone seal then slows down once it needs to be sloshed around to let gravity take it down. I will get a picture tomorrow of the oil mess on the inside of the pads. And what i was doing for work. Was an expensive fall, that sticky snow i got at the end really packed into the rails and cracked half of my track pads from the compression. I need to cut relief holes into the pads. That or buy different pads. Crazy how they would crack so easily. I want single grouser pads, the double get packed full of snow and ice, and it destroyed the deck boards of my trailer too.
Single grouser aren't good on a loader. Much harder on the machine when turning.
Got any pictures of the cracked pads?
Compressed snow is a force of reckoning. Water becomes a Enemy when frozen. On 977s 973s the advent of Dozer Shoes became common, weight of machine ate UC when pushed hard so single grouser shoes did only a slight increase in pressure, Ice or Mud Hole Shoes also became really popular here on these models.
Were any of the cracked pads slightly loose to begin with?
I got the four bolts that hold the master link together loose. Was wild how tight they were. One inch impact couldn’t get them off. So I heated the head of the bolt and let the heat go down with melting wax. Let them cool off completely. Then barely got them off. I also have a few dry links in the chain, is it worth taking them in to get fixed?
SALT or Sealed rail once leaks the fix is to replace that link, internal wear starts fast, seals will not ever hold again, if more than 1/4 to 1/3 would either run the rails to shreds or replace as a assembly.
Look up the torque specs for those bolts, takes a 4/1 multiplier to final set them.
Looking at your piactures has me wondering if the freezing temperatures expanded whatever was in the area of the Duo-Cone seal and the pressure has caused one of the steel rings (arrowed) to crack.? You'll need new bolts when you put it all back together in that case. I wouldn't trust the old bolts after having heated them. Torque spec is 250 ± 50 lb ft PLUS an additional 180 degrees of turn. No wonder a 1" impact wouldn't look at it. Also important is to apply anti-seize compound to the bolt threads, bolt shank, and under the head before installing them.
Wow,I’m starting to appreciate just how cold your climate is there. That’s serious damage to those pads.I had no idea.
Steel can be tricky when cold, crystalline structure gets brittle rather quickly and loses all flexibility when subjected to flexing pressure at sub zero temps. Heard of exploding in use hammers and wrenches on the Alaska Pipeline build as I was wrenching here in the midwest, astonishing.
I'm just looking on my phone but not sure what I'm looking for on the pads where they're cracked?
They cracked across the pads, apparently ice pushed each grouser bar away from each other. That is unbelievable. That's why he wants single grousers. So the ice can't expand and over pressure the pads. Seems like a small building with a diesel jet heater might be a better idea. Or just head to Florida like every one else ... I am guessing somehow it was sitting in water and it just did it to the bottom side?
The snow gets packed inside the chain itself. So when the sprockets go in the chain to drive, the snow gets packed in there so tightly it compresses and it sounds like there’s a rock in the chain and it hydraulic shocks the pads over and over like a jackhammer. From the inside going out the centre, where I would want to get a hole in the pad to evacuate the snow/mud. You can see every pad that’s cracked originates from the centre of the four track bolts. Sometimes there’s two separate cracks that propagate to the opposite ends. Snow and mud also packs between the grouser bars and keeps building up so it’s like 2-3” taller then the grouser bars themselves. But not on every pad, so when I put it on my trailer those pads with the ice high heels like popped the boards down between the crossmembers on my trailer those pads. I took off the shroud that protects the sprocket on the track frame and went in there with pressure washer again to try and clean it out some more, and when I parked it back infront of the shop it’s leaking so bad, there must be one spot that’s damaged, and now I have it parked with that spot on the bottom it probably dumped another couple gallons of oil on the ground. It’s suppose to rain a few inches over the next 4 days, and I don’t want to take it apart and leave it open for that since I have to do it outside. I’m also taking a trip for a week Saturday. So it’ll have to wait until I get back to take it apart.
OK, I went on the computer and can see the cracks much more clearly. Are the cracks noticeable on the rail side? I would try grinding grooves for full penetration and welding the pads. I'd preheat them from the grouser side to 300-400F (not excessively hot though) and weld the flat side first so the heat pulls the slight bow in the pads back straighter. You don't want to get the rails too hot. You could take them off but that might pose other problems and the pads would need to be replaced. Maybe not though and you could post heat them hotter. Post heating them to keep them hot with a tiger torch or rosebud and then wrapping them with a fire blanket or insulation so they slow cool would help relieve stress from welding. Peening the welds while they are still hot would help to relief initial stress from welding. The welds need to be hot though. Beating them cold could add stress. A needle scaler for about 8 seconds would be ideal.
Cheaper to buy Shoes.
Agree. Maybe go with the landfill shoes that have the hole punched in the middle to let the built up garbage out. Might be able to let the snow/ice push through. Crazy ass weather up there!
Depends how much new shoes cost. Would be worth a try welding them. Nothing to lose if it doesn't work other than your time and a few rods.
I used to run a 973 with single grouser shoes that had relief holes in the center of every shoe. that machine had a 12 ft blade on it for building terraces. It ran in very little snow or freezing weather. It was an lgp machine I think the holes were more for mud than anything else.
In certain snow conditions there is nothing you can do…a clear ice coating (around 1/16-1/8”) will build up on each bushings of the chain. Resulting in incredibly over tightened track chain. Then starts the terrible popping/sprocket skipping…. In these conditions holes in pads will not do a thing….(unfortunately)
If you want single grouser shoes with a trapezoidal hole for the snow to extrude through then you need 39 of Cat Part Number 125-9087 (plus 1 x 125-9088 for the master link) per track. These shoes are part of a custom 973C undercarriage setup for snow/landfill applications. There may also be equivalent aftermarket shoes available.
My only real experience with a blizzard was around 1994. We had 5 ' deep drifts. I was out playing with the my 4x4 Honda 300 foretrax. I got further and further from home it was driving just great, of course I went way off where I was not supposed to be, the wind and snow was blowing in about white out conditions. Reckly the four wheeler slowed up and stopped moving. I got off and did not have a shovel. Dug out what I could with my hands. I was high centered on ice. The snow that was hitting the engine was melting and refreezing under the frame. After a long walk home and back I managed to get it out. I about froze because I did not have the right pants or footwear. I have never thought about the impact it would have on steel tracks.
Good sized holes could help in some snow conditions. Especially wet/slushy snow?? The worst snow contains I have found are when air temperatures are around -8-10c. As the track chains warm the snow melts, but is cold enough to then re freeze.
Yeah we haven't had a snowstorm like '94 down here since.
It definitely happens in the 0 to -10 degree range. But I usually am shutting down for the season at that time. I refuse to run my equipment in -40. If I think I have issues now, I won’t want to fix the dang thing if it breaks which it would. I have welded one pad a few years ago. Ground it out, no pre heating or anything. And it has held up not cracked again. I also was thinking of taking my plasma cutter and just cutting holes in each pad, make a little template to throw onto the pad between the bolts and then just cut it while it’s on. I don’t really do much turning and pushing with my machine clearing. The added traction from single bar grousers would be awesome. Double bar grousers just pack full of crap so bad I may as well have triple bar. Nige is there anything particular in the final drive removal? Or the only thing is the one hydraulic line and the electrical connection from the inside? And then the what feels like hundred bolts holding it onto the frame and it slides out?
Would you like the complete D&A procedure.?
Sure
See attached. I think it may prove a little more complex of a task than you are imagining. To replace a Duo-Cone seal I would not recommend trying to do it by disassembling the final drive while it is still installed on the machine. The components need to be laid flat so that you can press down on the components of the seal.
Thanks again Nige, you’re the best. I don’t care what all these other guys say about you, you’re good to me. I didn’t even start on the loader today, did a much needed full service on the old Case 1845 skid steer. But then got distracted by this…
Got CAT to help me with the final drive today. Duo cone seal was damaged, something got between the mating surfaces and galled up the side that rotates(hub side). Took ten tons to press off the hub from the spindle, and a sledge hammer. Left the final drive attached to the frame and then removed the assembly as shown. Assembled with the new seal, new o ring for the outer planetary that mates to the hub. And new bolts for the track master link. Also got him to clear the codes on my 950G, and refill the nitrogen charge on the ride control. Took almost 7 hours from him showing up, to him leaving, and we didn’t really rush. But it’s all back together, now to do oil change on the other side final drive, engine oil change, hydraulic filters, and grease it and it’s ready to go.
You could have done those yourself. It only requires two short pieces of wire.
yeah, i could have. But I wanted to see what his computer had to say anyways for the other codes and what was still active.
That’s a nice looking 973 sir.
Well maintained machines tend to look great!
Many are disguised to look like they were well maintained. Unfortunately some buyers get burnt because they didn't inspect them or didn't know what to check.
Well,that’s a very good point Dave,but this 973 looks totally original from the 2 pics.I like the look of the evenly wore u/c the paint and stickers are as they should be,can’t see any dings and knocks around the counter balance at the back,a nice straight radiator grill and no broken glass in the cab.The fire extinguisher is also a good sign to me that the machine is loved by someone. I’m also noticing the bolts and washers have been screwed back into the holes whilst the job is ongoing. All in all it’s a tidy set up and the owner doesn’t look like the sort of chap that chucks everything into a bucket or the floor.
Yes, the 973 looks like a clean original that was looked after. I was referring to machines with cheap paint jobs and repairs just good enough they work. I'm still amazed at people that advertise a machine in good condition and everything works yet can't afford to put a decent seat on it. A new seat could add thousands as a ripped and torn to shreds seat is the first thing a potential buyer would notice.
I’m fairly particular about my equipment, so it’s a compliment for someone to notice. Even with it working in the bush all the time and the scratches, I try to upkeep everything, broken glass is something I will not tolerate. But bad news on the machine again, did some maintenance on the loader, hydraulic filter change, engine oil change, fuel filter, air filter cleaning etc. the dust separator bowl is cracked. How will I ever financially recover! But in all honestly the problem is I went to change the oil on the other final drive completely, so that both sides had similar maintenance intervals. It was basically due anyways. And I popped the fill hole plug out, and it’s full right up to the top. So either the drive motor is leaking into the final drive, or the park brake is. I got UV dye, which is $10 an ounce, and I’ll be putting it into the hydraulic tank. I’ll drain the final drive down to the normal range, and then run it for a bit, check the level again and if it’s overfilled, I’ll check a sample with the UV light and see if there’s any dye residue in it. If anyone remembers back years ago I had taken the machine to finning to get them to address this exact issue back then. They replaced a seal in the drive motor. 19,050 hours it was done at, and now I’m at 19,721 hours with the same issue. I hope I don’t have to do that deal every 670 hours… I don’t have the capability to do it myself.
I wonder if lack of use in all that time has caused deal issues?
Maybe the seal got damaged when Finning installed it. **** happens.
Ah you should have a tank like the one in the picture the one in picture is power train one up front is hyd. Brake and power train is same oil
The cat tech had told me that the brake was ran off of the implement hydraulics? Today I drained the final drive down to the normal level, and I drained out roughly 7 gallons of oil. I saved it so I can put it in the tandems on my grader since they leak and I don’t feel like fixing that yet. I added the UV dye to the hydraulic tank as per the recommendation from CAT, took the machine out into the field and drove it around turned so the left track would stall and the right track would spin me around. Used the brake to try and actuate it, if it leaked it would put oil into the final with the dye. Got it back up on the railroad ties blown off with the compressor ready to get fixed, again…
Look at tech block (where the solenoids are) brake and transmission control come from there the solenoids and pressure taps are marked 973s are the only ones that have tank in picture all others run out of the front tank
Here's some bedtime reading to help you understand the system a little better.
Thanks for the info, I guess it was pointless to put the UV dye into the hydraulic system like cat had recommended. Service desk people mean well right? Well regardless, the tech did mention that they can charge the brake system with pressure with the machine inoperable. So I feel that would be the best route to take to determine if it’s the park brake leaking or the drive motor seal again. early next week is the earliest chance they have to send the tech back out.
Yes pump up the brake don’t go over 200 psi and see if it will hold the pressure
I’ll look up the procedure for charging the brakes. It’s most likely what would be used to tow the machine if the engine was dead. Stay tuned…..
Attached the towing procedure that shows how to release the brakes using an external pump. See Pages 3 thru 8.
that looks a lot easier then expected. I just don't have a hydraulic pump to accomplish that, princess auto(Canadian store) has porta-power hand pump kits for auto body on sale, wonder if a guy can get an adapter to one of those. Or if I just pay CAT to come do it so I don't blow the seals out of the brake with a cheap hand pump where the gauge isn't accurate. I'd just drain all the cheap oil out of the hand pump and refill with clean hydo-10 so if any oil is left in the brake system from the hand pump it'll at least be the proper oil.
The seals aren't the worry over pressure will snap the ring groove off the piston
went into princess auto today, got the porta power with the gauge, but its in tons... not PSI that stupid. got all the adapters that I need to power the brakes. Pittsburgh cat man, you say not to go over 200psi, but the procedure that Nige provided says not to let it go under 400psi when towing. 200 psi should be enough to get a leak down test done on it I would imagine right?
As and bs spec for brake pressure was charge -0 to -10 charge was 200 +40 -0 Nige could probably find pressure spec for brake pressure on the cs I wouldn't go over that. I was just thinking now you could put your uv dye in the porta power pump that might help
200 to 400 PSI won't take much force on a porta-power pump. Most are 10,000 PSI.
According to the info the brakes "should be released when the brake pressure is above 1400 kPa (205 psi)" . I imagine that the towing procedure wants to make double sure that they are released. I imagine that 200psi should be good enough to get sufficient pressure in the braking system to test the seals. Make sure you do this on level ground because with the brakes off the machine could potentially move.
I might have to go back in and get an actual PSI gauge that reads lower pressures. I got a hand pump instead of electric so I can be gentle with the pressure. Plus I was too cheap for the $400 pneumatic pump. I’ll try and keep it down to 200psi, like I said to welder Dave, if I don’t have a pressure gauge that low around the farm I’ll go into the city and buy a lower gauge in PSI. Not one that measures in tons. It’s inside our new shop which is gravel floor, and lasered flat with my grader. I’m still going to chock the tracks either direction for safety since it is up on railroad ties.
So my machine didn’t have the tow valve things on top of the block. So got ahold of the cat tech and he said just pressurize the one brake line at the final. So got that all rigged up, and pressurized to 190psi.
Does Hydo 10 have a slight fluorescent shine? Because I opened the level hole to let it drain out and see what the oil looked like after draining it down, adding dye to the implement hydraulics. And it came out looking awfully bright. When I took the brake line off I captured the oil coming out of the line so it wouldn’t make a mess, but also to see what the oil was. I hooked up the porta power and pressurized some of the line and then I cracked it to bleed air out. So that’s what the very bright spot is from. The 5 gallon pail is part of the 7 gallons of oil that I drained out from being overfilled, which was before any dye was added to anything by me on the machine. The pressure gauge shows the pressure level after an hour, shows the leak down of around 10psi. I left it pressurized still to see overnight what will change. I also drained the back half of the final drive so that the porta power oil wouldn’t have to dye such a large amount if it is leaking. We’ll see what comes of it in the morning. Cat will be here at 8am to get this figured out.
There is the possibility that they put dye into it when they did the seal. I can't ever remember using uv lite to check for oil transfer so I really have no idea on if it glows without putting dye in the oil. but if you have some new oil I would check it with the lite
I checked the hydrostatic tank with the light and it looked like the stuff from the pail I drained out, not like the stuff that’s leaking out of the final drive right now. Which is confusing me, I added dye to the hydraulic implement tank…
Found a leak. But doesn’t explain to me how it’s pressurizing the final drive. You can see the oil level inside the cavity between the final drive and the frame though, gallon or four in there.
Found the cause of the leak too, spring washers were binding in the brake itself and forcing the piston into the housing. Wearing both the piston and the housing. So now it’s to find a machine shop to spray transfer and machine the sealing surfaces again.
Seal on retaining ring side of piston is a direct shot into final
thanks, I was struggling to see another seal in the parts diagram that could possibly leak internally. But now, it brings my attention to back in 2018 when I took the machine in to cat. Why they replaced the drive motor seal without any real way for that oil to get into the final. I’m guessing the problem was never fixed when I took it in last time. I will say though, was easier getting the final drive off then I anticipated. Parts prices are a little much, the brake housing $3,000 and the piston $1,000
just curios what do the belleville springs look like
One was definitely offset and not aligned properly based on the wear marks on the springs themselves. And by the mark on the piston. I can get pictures shortly.
The washers are toast. When it was assembled they were not aligned and now they’re cockeyed. The housing cleaned up with some sandpaper and oil. The piston… I’m headed to a machine shop to get an opinion. Whether I just buy a new piston to play it safe.
Another little update, I was trying to find a shop that would attempt to make a repair on the piston. I could only find one, their idea was to sleeve the piston. And they wanted to sleeve the entire thing, machine the entire thing down, take the circlip groove off and then make a sleeve with the groove built into that. I did not feel comfortable with that option. I thought spray welding would’ve been a better option but I found that most shops did not think it would stick. So I’ve opted to just order a new piston for $1,000. Play it safe, I do not want to pull the final drive again. Doing it once right. I’ve ordered new Belleville washers as well $100 a piece. And all new seals. Pulling the final drive was a lot easier than I expected.
I'm with you I could see the sleeve fix pulling off and burning up your brake. I imagine brake discs are pretty pricey now a days too
It's not crazy expensive considering it's a 973. You need it fixed 100% if you want it to last.
Well, I’m at my wits end. Cat only has the new brake housings in Belgium, $3,200. No one would touch it to try and fix the small scratch, tried to reassemble and it wouldn’t seal. Even after trying to buff the scratch a little. It was longer then the sealing surface was wide. No used parts available for the brake housing even asked two parts places to look for me. If anyone has a line on a new or good condition used brake housing, part number 155-3946 anywhere in North America give me contact info. Has to be mint condition. I finally just gave up and told a machine shop try your best, and they can’t get a good bronze braze on the cast iron. Too much impregnated oil in the pores. Left with pin holes. Cat never got back to me at all about taking it to their machine shop and fixing the scratch. Called and left a message no reply.
I was just thinking cat used to be able to do a dealer search for a part instead of just cat stock. Your dealer should be able to do it
And has to be something in the scrapper yards. Maybe go to Machinery Trader and do a component search by P/N
I would've hoped they did that when I contacted them about it saying I don't care if it's used or new, I just need one. They said the location in Belgium has 12. There's only one place in Florida that says they have one, but they're just spamming part numbers to get people to their website it seems.
A lot of cat dealers have a used parts division might try that
I can try and call them tomorrow, but their website doesn't show any stock. Finning Parts For Sale | Finning Cat Search & Find Finning Parts Today www.finning.com
That will not be where you will find it - Finning internal used stock. Finning Used Parts dept searches and brokers used parts from venders all over NA. But that will be a lucky one if they can find it…
Try contacting Sureway Construction in Edmonton. They are one of the largest contractors in Canada and apparently have the largest scraper fleet in N. America. They also have a large selection of used parts for most larger Cat machines including 973's. They have a web page for dismantled machines. If you know part numbers helps. If all else fails I wonder if a high end epoxy could be used to repair your brake housings? Belzona and Devcon make some pretty advanced epoxies including for parts that wear like pump housings. Cast iron spray welding might be another option. I would think with enough heat any oil residue would get burned out. I'm not sure how experienced with brazing the shop you went to is. It could be like welding dirty aluminum where you have do it over a few times to burn all the impurities out. Talking to someone like Castolin Eutectic they may have a procedure and the proper filler metal to repair it. I knew a place that brazed a steel plate to repair a big hole in the side of a Kohler engine block. The balance gear blew apart. Engine was rebuilt without a balance gear and ran fine. It was a 14HP engine. 12HP was virtually the same without a balance gear. Saved buying a new engine. Needed lots of heat and slow cooling. Interesting conversation piece.
I would almost bet the housing is cast steel
I agree. It’s highly unlikely to be cast iron, which will make a big difference to any attempts at a repair welding process.
Sorry my mistake cast steel, they have attempted to braze the surface 3 times and machine it down and keeps getting impurities and pin holes they said.
Called sure way, they have 4 older machines but he’s going to do some digging for me and see if the older machines are the same. Also, the brake housing is made from Cast Ductile Iron according to the description on the parts page Specifications for part number 155-3946 Material: Ductile (Spheroidal) Iron https://parts.cat.com/en/catcorp/product/155-3946 I called Tormont CAT in Winnipeg, they don't have stock, and she got on the phone with used reman parts and they have no availability either.
Did they try baking the housing in an oven to drive off the oil impurities before attempting to repair the casting.? Not sure if would work buut maybe worth a shot seeing as a replacement is currently unobtainium.
Is there any reason a new one couldn’t be made out of mild steel, and hardened if need be? I know a guy in central Montana who could make one. I can give you his number if you want to text him a picture.
De-gassing is what it’s called for powdercosting. I use to do my own. Not sure if it’s same terminology for this application. But usually spent an hour in the oven before I did anything 300 degrees if I remember correctly. Then cleaned and sandblasted after. Unsure if they did bake it. But I just found out that the softer seal that I ordered was unavailable for the piston. And they substituted it for a different brand which came the same as the hard cat one. So back to square one again.
At that point with price and time of machining I might be better off just ordering the one from Belgium and waiting two weeks.
I was doing some looking around I found a form number for for salvage of off road truck brake housings it might give you a clue how to fix yours Since I don't have sis access anymore maybe Nige can find it SEBF8199
I went and got the housing from the machine shop, $1,200 later for two spots of braise the size of your fingernail. Multiple attempts and tries, it polished not bad. But there’s still spots where there’s pits from impurities in the weld. I bought some cold weld two part epoxy and mixed a tiny tiny bit. Tried to spread it down into only the pits with a razor blade. Figured right now would be the best time to try and get anything to stick after welding. The oil is probably burned out on the surface. This stuff I bought said it binds to bronze and brass. Which I’m guessing is the best chance. I’m going to let it cure overnight. And in the morning I’ll go out lightly scrape off the excess with a razor blade, then put some sand paper on the fat end of the razed blade and sand it with 600 grit to make sure there’s nothing to catch. I might do another little layer if I can still see the pitting. Being lower after I sand it but probably won’t. Tomorrow I’m going to try and put the housing together and pressure test it.
Let's hope Sureway has what you need. I'm curious how much cast iron the shop you took it to has worked on. You don't grind cast because it smears the carbon but instead use a carbide burr. I would think a rosebud would burn any impurities out and a carbide burr would clean it to shiny metal. It's already buggered so won't hurt anything to remove the contaminated layer to clean metal before trying brazing or spray welding.
@ippielb - check your messages
They did not have what I needed, the old A and B models have a completely different brake housing. Exact same concept with Belleville washers and clutch packs but the housing itself and piston are different. I’m not entirely sure but they did machine a gland nut and saved the rod of my excavator bucket cylinder that was mushroomed and galling. So I figured I’d give them benefit of the doubt and see what they could manage.
I was thinking all the years I messed with the 943 thru 973s I can’t remember ever changing a brake housing on any of them and that included 10 973s that were in the steel mills
I believe you too with how difficult it is to try and find a replacement. The ultimate reason that I’m having these issues is that the last person to be in the final had made a big mistake assembling, when the park brake assembly is put together on the bench and you put the snap ring in there’s no tension holding the Belleville washers in place or centred. So when you’re moving the 50 pound park brake around the washers can slide and move around in the housing. So when they flipped it upside down to install the housing on top of the clutch packs guaranteed the washers slid off centred. And contacted the piston. Over time the washers dug I to the piston, creating a burr putting force on the piston laterally and contracting the sealing surface. Then getting metal into the housing and scratching. The sealing surfaces. The ex cat tech (who was the head hydraulic guy at Kramer cat before finning bought them) I pay to do my big cylinders was scratching his head for a while. But then remembered, said you just take the porta power and power up the brakes to keep tension on the Belleville washers to keep them aligned while you put it on the final drive. Then when you bolt it down the bolts suck the housing down and keep tension on the clutch pack and the Belleville washers.
Well, this is what I’m left with. You can see the dark little spots where the pits were from the welding. I guess my finger tips don’t lie, felt like the bronze was a little lower than the rest of the cast. The finish is a little rougher then I’d like it to be when they polished it. But it is what it is. The epoxy product I used was permatex cold weld. It took a little effort to get it off even with a razor blade. Surprised me. I can still feel a little difference on the surface with my finger tip but that could be different texture more then anything.
All you can do is try it and see if you have any leaks
The red oil is just assembly lube that I used. But I figured this way testing it sitting in the press I can figure out if it leaks without fully assembling it. And I can go through the whole range of travel to see for leaks. My oil in the porta power still has dye in it. So I can look for dye instead of just oil itself. No air bubbles from the cavity so far either. I’ll leave it like this for an hour and come back and see if anything has changed. I’ll measure the press to make sure that jack isn’t leaking down. And use the UV light to look for dye.
It’s been an hour now, no signs of any dye. But there is some air bubbles coming out and a slight drop of pressure. I’m going to leave it longer. Started on cleaning up the brake housing on the final. And can’t get the clutch pack housing off. That 515 I think the tech called it is crazy.
Looks like they liked that stuff I don’t think I would be too concerned about getting it off
Two hours now, pressure dropped, found some dye. Which isn’t even at the surface that I had repaired. And wasn’t leaking before. I’m going to continue to leave it longer. See what develops. If it continues to leak I’ll have to take it out of the press and then try and 600 grit the entire surface with wd-40 to try and make it smoother. Are these harder plastic sealing rings like piston rings where they eventually get broken in and increase the sealing after they get worn in?
I have a couple thoughts first if you take the 600 to it make sure you wash it out good with soap and water you don't want to leave any abrasive residue on the sealing surface second I think I would assemble the housing piston and springs and test it so its in it's normal travel
I'm not sure what seals on the brake housing or if something turns on the repaired housing. I wonder if a Loctite product could be used to fill tiny gaps? You're really close to having it sealed. Too bad Sureway didn't have the right housing.
I I did end up taking it apart again and hitting it lightly with 600 grit. Used brake clean to clean it out with a white towel until there was no dark residue coming off of it anymore. I do have a picture of the assembly together where it shows the depth it was at when the park brake was pressurized. So I am just putting it back to where it normally sits with the press. I have it back in the press now and pressurized to 400psi. I’d really be curious to see what the pressure is in that line with the machine running. That way I can try and set the pressure in the press to that operating pressure not rely on the circlip to hold the force so I don’t do any damage to anything. There’s two hard plastic seals about 1/4” wide, one on the smaller side of the piston, and the other on the larger side. Both have a rubber backing ring behind them. The plastic seals is not soft or flexible at all, have to heat them to get them on the piston. The piston travels straight in and out with a maximum travel no larger then 1”. No rotation happens because there is always tension on the piston with the Belleville washers once it’s on the final drive. I think my next option is to order the softer wider seal, and then get the old piston machined with a larger seal groove and try to install that to get it to seal, because even with the 600 grit sandpaper polishing the surface a bit. It looks like it’s steel weeping at that same spot, not the spot I had repaired. I have marked it with paint so I won’t lose track.
I’m going to leave the housing pressurized overnight and see what happens, these pictures were taken almost an hour ago. 5:00pm my time.
Do the seals get any heat? Wondering if they expand slightly when warm and or under pressure. I'm not sure if a bearing retainer type material would work with a plastic seal. It's odd it has a slight leak where there was no damage.
These seals will not get any heat hardly. Only the warmth from the final drive and the drive motor transferring through the metal. What I’m thinking is that when they polished the surface. It actually make the surface kind of rough. And the seal being so hard can’t get down into the slight roughness of the surface. And it’s slowly working its way through the rough finish like a maze until it can get its way out. I have a feeling tomorrow morning I’ll be left with a little puddle on top of the piston. It’s weird that it’s NOT leaking on the internal side from what I can see. There has to be something on that surface between the paint markings.
You could try polishing it smoother than 600 grit.
These are from 18.5 hours of sitting with 400psi. And the pressure drop. It wasn’t good enough for me. I figured i could get it better. So I took it out of the press and took it apart again. Went a little more with 600 grit and oil, and then moved up to 1000grit with oil. It’s amazing how rough of a surface I was left with. You can clearly see the low spots like something was galled on the tool or something and going around in the piece. I will say this is about all I can do. I’m not going to sand down the entire housing to get rid of every mark. I feel the housing is already bigger than it should be for the seal, it took more force to get it in the housing before it was machined. But the finish is a lot better than what it was. There was absolutely no leaking at all going internally into the final drive from that seal. Which was nice.
Maybe a thin coat of bearing retainer would fill any imperfections? I think you could spread it with your finger pretty smooth and even. Could maybe let it dry before assembly.
Left it overnight again after the polish. Started at 400psi. It’s been over 20 hours and this is the leak down, which could easily be from the bottle jack leaking down, or the porta power at this point. The amount of oil is not increasing, hard to believe that little amount is 80psi worth. It could be the air escaping from the cavity as well, and the seal can seal oil but air can leak by. Got CAT coming out tomorrow and it’s getting put back together. I’m going to leave it in the press until then pressurized and see what develops. The main part is that the internal side is definitely holding the pressure. So the main issue is fixed. Also I did get the clutch pack housing off, xylene seems to have softened the sealant. And a dead blow. But everything is all cleaned and prepped ready for assembly, all the bolts cleaned from sealant, clutch faces and plates cleaned. Hopefully all goes smoothly.
IIRC maximum permitted piston seal leakage for a brake piston was something like 15psi in 30 minutes or thereabouts. I can check if you're interested.
I would agree with you on the air/porta power leaking down. I appreciate your tenacity. Good Job!
I'm sure your fine the steelmill 973s have a on board brake pump I'm sure in 20 h0urs you would be pumping them back up. so if you lost 40 pounds in 20 hours that's 2 pound a hour I'd call that real good
Add a needle valve between your pump and gauge if you want to take the porta power out of the equation.
Hearing those numbers makes me feel a lot better about assembling the machine again. It’s still in the press, the amount of oil leaking out the top side piston seal does not seem to be increasing hardly if at all. Pressure has slightly went down again. Tomorrow cat is coming out at 2pm so we’ll get it back together and hopefully the truck is done at its safety so I can load it up and get it ready to take to the job Wednesday.
Any thoughts on putting a thin layer of bearing retainer or something similar to fill fine scratches on the drums?
I thought about it, but decided against it, figure the less foreign material in the housing the better. I was hesitant to do the cold weld in the pits on the brazing itself. With my luck recently, the leak would probably get worse after for some reason.
I'm not sure how well a bearing retainer would adhere to the surface but if will stop a bearing from turning I think it would stick pretty good on the slightly rough surface. Maybe you could test it on another piece and see how it sticks and fills imperfections? Just some added insurance to prevent leaks. Kind of like using Loctite when you don't really need it. You may not have enough of a leak to worry about but it would suck if you had to take everything apart again. Maybe the Cat tech. would have an opinion or a good idea how to prevent leaks?
I'll see what he says in a few hours when he gets here. But my thought about the retainer is I don't know It would like to have something sliding on it. If it would get sticky, and start to gall up. The cold weld stuff I did do a little test before hand, and spread it out on a different piece of clean steel, and then tried to sand it down to see if it would get gummy. but with the oil and sanding it did not get gummy. it says on the package you can thread it so that was another thing I did think was good.
This thread just gets better and better.Im really impressed that you’ve stuck at it and I think you’ve probably got the problem solved.I’ve been down this road over the years with in situ crank polishing etc.Sometimes it seems hopeless,but then you get yourself a cup of tea and a biscuit,and go out to it again with fresh optimism. Keep up with the good work sir.
I think you'll be good.
Well, when the cat tech showed up, I showed him my rig in the press and to my surprise the pressure had dropped to 120-160psi. But there was no extra oil leaked out, so that's telling me that either the press bottle jack was leaking or the port power was. Maybe it was contributing that the temperature has dropped here from around freezing to minus double digits and the porta power was on the concrete floor away from the heat. No idea, as for the bearing retainer, I honestly forgot to ask the tech what his opinion was. He said that I should be good with the way it is now. But we got it all assembled back together, put all the shielding on it, belly pan at the back tightened both tracks up again. Putting the track back together went super easy, I had pretty much everything ready to go so it was only bolting things back together. I'd say probably 3 hours and he was off on his way again. Tomorrow I hope that the truck is back from safety because I have a job clearing to do I was hoping tomorrow.
Porta power pump and press jack could both have leaked off and the drop in temperature could be why the pressure reads lower. If no oil leaked from the housing you should be good.
Ready to go in the morning to go clear, just had another call this morning of another person wanting land cleared as well. Glad it’s done and together.
I would imagine a 973 is beast for land clearing. Do you usually wait till the ground is frozen?
Good to see the beast on the low loader. Time to earn a few coins back now and hopefully enjoy the machine and I’m sure it will put a smile on your face. . Sometimes,we do well to remember that these machines aren’t allways a means to an end.They can be there to enjoy and give the owner and operator some job satisfaction and abit of pleasure. Naturally,there is allways the feeling of butterflies for the first hour or so after they’ve had major surgery such as this final drive issue. One thing is that I’m sure about,if it does leak,it won’t leak that much and it’s something to live with. Good luck.
I usually stop when the ground is completely frozen in the bush. The way I want to clear land is different than most. Everyone likes to use dozers around here and just shear the trees off leaving behind the roots and stumps. I like to utilize the bucket and teeth and basically pop everything up, trying to remove as much of the root system along with then stumps. When it gets too frozen the roots/stumps break off, every job clearing ive done the landowners seed through it the next year, comparatively with other operations I’ve seen they can’t get into it multiple years later without tons of extra work. Yeah, you’re not wrong it’s going to be enjoyable for the first hour or two, then it’s just back to being a job. It’ll give me the peace of mind that the final doesn’t have the extra 7 gallons 10wt hydraulic oil in it anymore and increasing wear. The machine has been very good to me and has been flawless over the last few years really, just regular maintenance and hoses. I’ll let this one slide. Side note, fog advisory again today, can’t even see across the yard just like yesterday. I don’t know about you guys, but I’m not much of a fan of hauling my equipment in the fog crossing highways and trying to pick out landmarks in the middle of nowhere to find where I’m going
Was frosty, all that snow on the front of the machine is just hoar frost from the trees.
Not ideal, one of the the remote test ports from the left drive pump blew and had enough pressure it blew the oil into the cab from the floor plate and soaked everything including the back of my leg lol of course when I was in the bush on a first pass into the bush so literally IN it. $100 hose, And probably $200 worth of oil, $40 worth of brake clean and rags.
At least the floor is clean!
Plus side it wasn't hot yet
It is now after a can of brake clean. Everything in the cab is misted with hydraulic oil. Not a great smell. Brake clean took a lot out but then I was fighting off dragons with the smell in an enclosed space. Haha -15°C daytime highs here, that’s as hot as the trans gets on the gauge in winter. I’ve rarely ever had it get ‘hot’. I have on one job though when I was digging out reinforced concrete and mud in an old hog barn. Was a 4’’ cut. The pits were leaking and it was mud so bad I couldn’t even lift the bucket or the front end would just go in the ground and my roof/ac would hit the rafters. Then the insulation got on the radiator, not to mention it was 35°C
Keep us updated with the pics and progress please. No more burst hoses though!!
Looks like the hose was rubbing on something or wrapped tight against something. I wonder if something like Dawn dish soap would help clean the oil up? If it cleans oil from birds caught in oil spills it should help. It comes in a concentrated spray bottle.
It was definitely rubbing on something once upon a time. But it was not currently. The cords were rusty that’s how long that hose hasn’t been rubbing on anything. For now I just left the slight oil misting on everything. I’ll let the little bit of dust that comes out of everything slowly get stuck to it, then hopefully it’ll be easier to clean I stopped to go to the bathroom and this little guy bounces right under the bucket while the machines running. Looks like someone’s pet I didn’t think there was wild bunnies. I’m use to jack rabbits. I’m over a mile away from the closest farm. Turns out the land owner calls that quarter of land the “bunny quarter” because there’s so many of them and they’re not even wild.
Someone in the past released tame bunnies and they homesteaded. Good luck on the cleanup.
First picture, that whole pile of bush is on top of ice, a slough had water still in it and all the water froze. About 6” of it. And the mud underneath was still slop, I had to be gentle no turning or stacking the burn pile tall. The extra force pushed me through the ice and I puckered a couple times. Second picture, a weird elevated circle in the middle of a bush in the slough.
Nice tidy work, a really versatile machine! See very few out this way...
Thanks, definitely an uncommon machine for sure. Seeing that I couldn’t find a brake housing anywhere in North America haha I don’t know how the loggers in BC can get away with leaving ground they log the way they do I’m a snowmobiler so I ride cut blocks a lot, but I went up one summer to a place we ride and my goodness I think I’d rather not know.
Around here, the chip market is so good, the loggers are scraping up the ground and running stuff through hammer mills before chipping to keep the rocks out.
There is no doubt that some clearcuts here do have a massive amount of wood fibre left on the ground....Have seen this in the old growth cedar in the very steep mountainous terrain around Revelstoke. It is very common for slash piles the size of a small house to be burned during the winter....
Yep, I live in Sicamous over winters and ride Revy quite a bit. Surprising they don’t do anything with the excess. I will say the steep terrain I can see why it’s left a mess sometimes. She’s a cold one this morning. -30°C windchill and barely any wind.
Yep, steep slopes difficult.... -4c here no snow at all yet this year, but forecast 10cm tonight. We are between Enderby and Grindrod; looking at Enderby cliffs/Hunters range. I use a 1998 Yamaha Bravo 'longtrack' to get into claims in winter/early spring. Will do 30km/h on level ground (lol!)
Nice area for sure. I bet you can’t wait for the bridge in Sicamous to be over and done with so traffic can get back to its normal levels eh. I hear the snow line is coming down a lot though. You probably have seen my truck going up and down the 97 if you were around last winter lol I frequently visited Vernon.
Yes, snow is definitely starting to build up higher...
Off topic, but how much daylight do you guys get that far north during winter. Its bad enough here in the semi tropics, I imagine it's bugger all there.
In the middle of winter at our place it won't be fully daylight until 8:30am if it's an overcast/dark day, and it'll be dark again by 4pm. However in summer it's the opposite, dawn is around 4:30am and dusk is around 10:30pm.
Darkish (near full dark) here in southern interior of BC at the moment (4pm). Dull light by 7:30am. Pretty similar to example above (Nige). Also first snow of the season here today…
Latitude-wise we are a little bit further North than Edmonton AB if my memory serves me correctly.
Right, we are a fair bit south of you then.
There’s nothing to block the sun here. No Hills or anything so right now sunrise is at 8:30am ish and sunset is 5:00pm ish. But we have another three weeks of less light. Be it the sunset and sunrise times don’t change much the closer we get to solstice. In September is 2 hours in a month we lose. That picture I took this morning of the machine smoking like a chimney was just after 8:30 this morning. No problems with the cat today, but this is a new one. Stupid slip tank the suction tube is adjustable. And the stupid thing got slid all the way up somehow. And I couldn’t fuel up my machine all the way, and my diesel heater sucks from the fuel return line so I need a full tank of fuel to run the heater. So heater overnight tonight. Had to race into the city to princess auto for a new suction tube for the slip tank and while I was at it I got a new filter. Sure enough the baffle is now ripped off inside the slip tank and that must’ve been what lifted it up.
Why fight stumps later when you can pop them now? I stop once the ground’s frozen, but my land‑clearing style isn’t the usual dozer shear. Instead of leaving roots behind, I run the bucket and teeth to lift everything clean.
These were from yesterday, worked late didn’t even get back in the house till after 9 at night. Can see my truck in the distance. And a heap of trees cleared.
Today I went back and finished up this job, and did a little extra side mission for his dad, cleared that bush in the first picture and pushed it into the trees they didn’t want cleared. They hadn’t been able to get to the left or anywhere around it in recent years so the two hours it took to put that bush into the trees there was probably the most productive I was on the whole job. You can see this mornings temperature was a balmy -19°C and -30 with the wind.
Nice work!
just did some calculating.... Starting from the top going down. First bush at top property line - 4.6 acres second bush on the right with water in middle - 2.1 acres third little round one above the big one - .7 acres fourth half of the bush - .6 acres fifth big one - 5.5 acres So I cleared around 13.5 acres of land. took around 53 hours so on par with my average .25 acres per hour. This bush was very thick with underbrush. willows, stupid little spindly things that don't pull out of the ground, just bent over. So it took longer then poplar. With some longer pushes. Truth be told though, they won't be able to farm the full 13.5 acres of land, the low spots they may still have to go around in wet years once the piles are burnt and buried. And his dad's work was .5 acres and took two hours. so again, at that .25 acres per hour.
Went and got the machine this morning. Kinda wish I would’ve left it till tomorrow because temperature jumped to 0 degrees and the roads were covered in salt. But that’s life. Not happy with my decision, I would’ve been fine it I just went and grabbed it and left. It was -7 when I got there. But I needed to clean out the tracks to save my deck boards from getting absolutely cooked and broken when I loaded the machine. So I brought the air hammer and a flat chisel tip and cleaned every pad out. It might be the last job I do for the year, going to go look at this other one right away here see if the ground isn’t too frozen. But figured might as well put it away clean if not, plus it lightened the load from having 80 fifteen or twenty pound bricks in the tracks.
You sir, are a good hand! I know some who just let the entire undercarriage sit frozen till spring! Helps if one owns the machine also (I find lol!)
Kudos. Too many machines get ridden hard and put away wet.
I don't see how you people live in those conditions. Headed to the Gulf of America tomorrow where the breeze off the Gulf will be a brisk 50'ish degrees.
Definitely if you’re the one paying for repairs it makes it easier to take care of it. This fall I put $9,000 in working on the final drives. So this job I just did covered that and paid my wage, fuel, and insurance basically. Overall not losing money is okay with me, the machine has earned a maintenance year. Last year that was me… but we got a really nasty blizzard in the middle of November and caught me off guard. Was still mud underneath the snow couldn’t wash and clean everything like I’d hoped to have. I was talking in Celsius. 0°C is 32°F. So it was super warm compared to the -20 or -30 windchill I’ve been dealing with the last week. Last night it was -30°C windchill and in 8 hours it jumped to 0°C. Talk about swing. in january it was -50°C or colder with the windchill for a week straight. The cows were NOT happy. I went and looked at that other job today. It’s on the reserve, but it’s a lot of little pockets of bush. We are suppose to get quite a bit of snow this week. So I’m unsure if I want to tackle a project like that while it’s going to get cold and snow a lot, starts covering all the deadfall and I end up pushing more snow then I do trees some times. Not cost effective for the customer and for my need to feel productive.
For what he wanted, works out to be around 15.5 acres of land cleared. 62 hours worth. And we are suppose to get a foot of snow in that time frame it would take to finish and a lot more cold weather. I don’t think I would be happy with the quality based on the snow and the extra freezing. I’ll be moving to Sicamous for the winter come December 18, so I don’t have much time if I take that job, and I have a ton of work to do in the mean time. Plus my machines tracks are all clean right now.
Oh I know you were talking celsius - my thoughts remain the same.
20 cm forecast for Sicamous.... Looks like good sledding coming in time for your arrival!
I have decided to shut down for the year. I have the customer a quote for the job. Haven’t heard back, but I have a lot of work to do in the meantime time before I leave. Appointment with my surgeon that did my back surgery in 2019 that will take an entire day too
Well, time to unload the machine and put it away for the winter. No happy with the condition of it though but it is what it is. Should’ve waited until today to pick it up.
Tucked away for the winter. Poor excavator has to sit outside again. No where to put it, the roll up door is 10’ wide and the excavator is wider then that. Don’t have power to open up the big bifold door yet.
Sounds a Good next Project, Door Power.
We have to upgrade our service on the farm to add the new shop and the box is still months out. My trencher has a frost chain on it but no sense in beating it up when we don’t necessarily need the shop this winter. But I agree power is the next step for the shop.
Damnit!!!
4 cans of brake clean after I blew the hose. Shows the film strength of cat hydo 10 haha I hate putting things away like this. But at least it won’t rust.
Spring, warmth, a pressure washer and dawn soap. Best degreaser have found.
Why don't you just put a extension cord on the door and run a generator? Be nice to have the door working....
i know nothing about these big bifold doors. Our other door has a controller mounted on the wall for “open” “stop” and “close” with manual locking lever. This new door has automatic locking levers and I wouldn’t want to ruin the electronics not knowing how to wire it up. We can open out other door with an electric drill on a chuck but someone gets to ride the door up and stay up there till the door comes down and closes. I’m by myself on the farm
How big is your shop? It looks huge!
For reference. I have been running a 963 for approximately 4 or 6 weeks now. It cost me between 300 and 700 per day to run it, not including wear. I burn up to 80 or 85 gallons a day and about 3 to 5 gallons of 10 weight. Blown orings twice, hose once and i have a drizzle coming somewhere out of the front of the hydrostat. Can't get to it to fix it. We went almost 100 days with no rain and the dust was bad. It drys up the fluid. Been working clearing slash from clear cut and hurricane damage. I have to stop and refuel mid afternoon, clean main air filter every day. I average around 2 acres per day if working full day. Maybe 3.
80’ long and 76’ wide. Will have infloor heat, 16’ along the far side will be office, mechanical room, bathroom, storage etc. so the main shop space will be 80’ x 60’. 24’ ceiling. I burnt 1,365 litres of diesel in 56 hours of running. Or around 6.5 gallons an hour. So for costs on this 7 day job… Hose $100 Supplies $60 (grease rage brake clean etc) Oil $300 Fuel $1,365 (roughly $1 a litre for bulk?) Insurance truck $25 Business insurance $25 Semi rental $750 Trailer insurance $15 Replacement costs $2,800($50 per hour) Maintenance costs $1,120 ($20 per hour) Undercarriage costs I’m not 100% sure on. Works out to be $6,560 in expenses before paying an operator. Or roughly $117 an hour just to have the wheels turning. Depending on what you feel a skilled operator is worth, one that can problem solve, mechanical skills, good planning and ability. I couldn’t imagine clearing in an open cab…. I’ve had those years when it’s super dusty and you’re not wrong about daily air filter cleaning. I was looking at upgrading my pre filter to one of those “turbo 2” pre cleaners. I’ve heard good things. I did 14 acres of clearing in the 56 hours, which is exactly my 0.25 acres per hour. So an 8 hour day I could clear 2 acres, or if I’m working a 12 hour day I can do 3. Having a 450 litre fuel tank has its benefits. I don’t have to fill up in the middle of the day. And when my light comes on for low fuel. I fuel up around 375 litres of fuel. Have 75 litre cushion. On a day with hard pushing. I can’t make 12 hours. On Easter days I can. So the fuel consumption rate is anywhere from 20 litres to 40 litres per hour. Or 5.25 gallons to a 10.5 gallons per hour.
You should. They are worth their weight in gold in dusty conditions. My preferred brand is Sy-Klone - https://www.sy-klone.com/series9000.html
Those are the ones the machines had at the landfill. I’ll have to see if there’s any suppliers around locally and price them out. I’ll need two of them. Both of the plastic sediment bowls on the 973C and the 950g are cracked.
That will be an awesome shop when it's completed! Sure nice to be able to park all your equipment inside out of the weather.
Thats for sure, I am deeply envious!
I need to put a bay in for my backhoe. Some things you truly regret, especially if you built and designed your own home. Unfortunately, I was more interested in working on bikes, when I designed my garage and walk out, drive out basement. Currently I have 3 bikes spending winter in my basement!
Good info! Going to look into that for our 210; when stripping silt layers in summer can be a lot of fine dust.
Wish I had had the where-with-all to have built bigger, Old Blue was a Bugger to work on in tight quarters, do not know if could have done better with bigger but feel would have been Less Painful.
Hope that is only dust and not highway salt that is covering it. If any salt don't let sit for winter or will cause more problems down the road. Nice looking unit. Simon C
There was salt on a section that was a couple km long going through a town. But I was only going 40km/h to try and reduce the spray. There is some salt for sure though. The main part was from it being -30 the night before, and then above zero during the day and the machine was frosted completely over, and the gravel road still was making dust so everything was sticking to it. At this point there’s nothing I can do about it, I do not have a hot water pressure washer, or a tap that can give water now. And I’m not paying for a service call on a steamer to come out. I’ll lick it and see if it’s salty before I do that. This is what a highway looks like when temperatures fluctuate from -30 to 0 in a few hours. Frost from the ground
I'm glad Alberta doesn't use very much salt. We have a lot of coarse sand. A lot of it gets reused when the snow dumps melt. Cats push all the dumped snow into big piles. It takes till mid/late summer for it to melt and then they can scoop up the sand.
Yeah they abuse salt here, there was no reason for that much salt to be down when I brought my machine home nothing was slippery it just looked it. When you can visually see the salt on the road it’s bad. I ran snow plows for years and was told to use more material on multiple occasions. But people’s safety is more important than rusty vehicles. I use to run a D8T at the snow dump in Regina for a winter. Brand new machine with 50 hours on it when in first got in it. Back in 2012 or 2013 we had so much snow that it didn’t even melt over the summer, and didn’t even melt till the following September without any extra snow added on top of it. Truth be told they never pushed the sand off the surface so it was well insulated. Funny it was 10 years ago when I ran the d8 according to YouTube
Four Months and not a word, Odd.
He’ll have been hibernating. Isn’t that what they do up there in the winter.?