Well it is time to trade a our 1997 Cat 320. We are looking for another excavator the same size and are wondering wich one would be the best. We have had Cat's, Link-Belt's, and a Kobelco with the Kobelco being the least liked. Volvo and Cat are probablly the front runers with Link-Belt being a close 3rd. Oh and I know my spelling sucks.
Get your 320 appraised, and then find out the value of one of the other machines the same age. that should answer your question right away. can't beat CAT as far as cost to run. in louisiana at least
Why isn't Deere or Hitachi in the selection ? If you have had good luck with Cat why don't you stick with them.
Well I forgot about Deere they have a dealer right down the street. Hitachi dosen't have a dealer anywhere near us. The reason for not geting another Cat would be the price. We were geting some prices on loaders about a month ago and Cat was always $50,000 to $75,000 more and there excavators might be the same.
I call BS. I know for a fact they're not much more. Anyway from the small amount of time I've spent on excavators and from what I've heard, I'd put John Deere & CASE on the list as well. Also fro what I've found to work best when buying equipment (this applies for any piece of equipment) that dealer service is #1, how well it performs #2, and price is #3. This is just from my personal experience from being in the tree busines for over 20 years.
Nope not BS. We have never had a Deere what is better about them than other machines?
cat 345c $389,000 deere 450d $381,000 cat 324d $203,000 komatsu 220 $194,000
Well the price on the front end loaders they gave us was like this. Cat 966 $350,000. Volvo L150 $270,000.
Bought a Komatsu 220LC-7 few months ago - $171,000. Bought a Volvo 330BLC 45 days ago w/450 hrs., 2 buckets & quick coupler - $179,000 I like CAT too, but in general higher priced in my neck of the woods. Actually, the last time I priced similar rubber-tired backhoes, Deere was slightly more than CAT with both of 'em 12-15% higher than Case.
Case and Link-Belt are the same machine, Sumitomo. John Deere and Hitachi are the same machines with different engines, Hitachi uses Isuzu mostly, John Deere uses their own engine. Caterpillar is made by Mitsubishi. Komatsu makes their own. What you should get from all this is Japan Inc. Buy the machine that makes the most business sense to you. None are bad for the first 7,500 hours.
Well if there price is right it will most likley be Volvo being that we have had great service from them.
As I recall Volvos are made by Samsung. I haven't worked on one in awhile but they were pretty standard Japanese components. Maybe different now?
Yah I think VOLVO is now different from Samsung. VOLVO has been getting big into the construction / excavating industry lately (i.e buying out the dirt side of IR). I think they could be buying out Bobcat soon as well. (IR & Bobcat where related)
I can't see Cat being that much more over the other brands. I know you are paying alot because of the Cat name. Nothing wrong with Deere equipment or Hitachi which is used quite abit on the West Coast dealer support for Deere/Hitachi is good. I'am not impressed with Komatsu they seem to be cheaply built I wouldn't buy one. If your buying a machine that is significantly lower priced than the other brands you know darn well its a cheap piece of junk.
Komatsu is one of the better excavators on the market. Their fit and finish is excellent, making it one of the most comfortable, capable and reliable machines on the market. Down here it is also one of the leaders in the excavator market so I find it hard to believe that they are cheaply built. I think its safe to say that the excavator is pretty much Komatsu's "flagship" piece of equipment. In your expierence, what did you find that was cheap about them?
The 158 I ran which was 6 months old when I was running it was a cheap piece of junk. I had to do the repairs on it too and what a SOB to work on the hydraulic fittings were odd ball. I was trying to get fittings and it was sorry Komatsu only Who ever designed those control levers in the excavators the buttons were cheap. The horn button was in the wrong spot. The fit and finish in the cab is cheap plastic. The outside sheet metal is even cheaper had to repair that too from damage from another operator. The Komatsu was a PIG on fuel the 158 burned more fuel in a 8 hour day than the Isuzu in the 150 and the Deere engine in the 690. I'am not impressed with Komatsu neither is quite a few other operators.
Just going by the numbers of equipment they sell, I doubt they could sell junk and still be one of the leaders in Heavy Equipment. Whats the difference between quality plastic and cheap plastic? I think you will find alot of plastic in any new piece of equipment, not just Komatsu. How does the abuse of another operator cause the sheet metal to be cheap. We're talking sheet metal not 1/2 inch plate, which with the right kind of abuse can be damaged too.
In Western Canada Komatsu just started to become known in the market I would say maybe in the last 5 years they have become more prevailant. The dealers were giving good deals to the contractors to make sales. The deals were considerably cheaper than Hitachi/Deere which still dominates the excavator market. Komatsu seen that Caterpillar wasn't interested in the construction market so Komatsu moved in. Caterpillar Canada is after the big players aka the oil sands and large mining operations. The small excavation contractor isn't in their mind. Komastu seems cheaper than the other brands and I gets to sit in and try out newer machines because of the freight business my familly is in. The bending sheet metal wasn't from operator abuse it was from one swing and it bumped into a tree the sheetmetal caved in. There were other problems with the 158. Like I said if your buying a new machine and its considerably cheaper than the rest must say something. Also look at the cost of repairing the machine if you buy the machine cheaper than the rest but when it comes to getting parts etc and it costs you double than the other brand its " I got ya". Spend a little more money now or alot of money later.
The real test of excavators, is when you eventually get out to that 7500 to 8500 hours mark, and have to start replacing or rebuilding some components. Good maintenance, good operators, good materials will buy you some time, but unless you figure to trade or sell at that point, the Cat will get you maybe another 2-3000 hours over the others. Course, then you still have to do something with it, eh? I've had good luck generally with Komatsu PC650's and 400's, but the 650 was where I learned the 8500 hour rule of thumb. Kiewit and others have had real good luck with Hitachi machines, maybe one of the driest excavators on the market, hydraulically speaking. Dealer service is usually going to be better and quicker with Cat. Parts availability will be better. Equipment follow-up is way better with Cat. Resale value is much better and demand for used Cat's is better. I guess I'm used to being with bigger contractors whom get better deals on equipment, but the cost-spreads fellas are mentioning here seem kinda extreme, not that I haven't heard things like this before. But Cat can and usually will get down in the muck and get dirty with pricing if they really want to make a sale, no matter if the purchaser has only one machine or a thousand. The last outfit I was with was a medium size contractor, but didn't have a lot of yellow iron. Still, the boss would just skin our CAT salesman alive on price and warranty's. We did have the advantage of being able and willing to buy in another state if we wanted to, that sharpened up the competition some. Still, you gotta play hard to get no matter what size your outfit is. Good luck!
Well we just had our Link-Belt 4300 hit 8,500hr mark and so far nothing except normal stuff has happend to it. I will agree with you on Cat parts they seem to be more availabill but as for dealer service Volvo has been the best. As for Cat they don't seem the least bit willing to deal. Heck we called them a week ago trying to get a price on a 320 and no one has even called back yet.
Komatsu I have to agree 100% you can have the best product in the world, but if you dont have the service you dont have a hope.... Jamaica has good representatives for both Cat and Komatsu, i have gone more heavily into Komatsu and i am a very happy camper. we now own 2) PC 600 4) Pc 300 and a Pc 200 .... about to buy another 2) Pc 600 machines... I could not be happier I own a Cat 325 and that is a great little machine as well..... Pricing in this market is a little different, and i have found Komatsu to be substatially cheaper than cat
Sometimes you got to yell a little bit. If the dealer salesmen are ignoring you, speak to higher ups at the dealership or it's home office. If still having trouble, find out who the district rep is and discuss this with him. If you can't find him, call or write the factory. They aren't too hep about their dealer people missing out on a sale.
I didnt intend to bash anyone..... and for the record.... been there done that.
Well I just got introduced to the district rep about a month ago maybe I'll give him a call and tell him whats going on. Oh and I called the guy that runs the dealer ship for the price and still no word.
It's a bad day when you have to beg a salesman to take your money. While I'm not buying large equipment or in large numbers, I still don't have time to pester a dealer to sell me a machine. Unless I have no other choice, If they don't have time for me, I don't have time for them. I guess if you have personnel dedicated to procurement then they can climb the dealers food chain.
Caterpillar is like that in parts of B.C. they are not interested in the small guy anymore your nothing but a Nuisance. When Komatsu was trying to make a impression on the area they had a dealer rep in the area on a regular basis. I seen the Komatsu rep in the area more than I see my relatives. That cut back quite abit now the Deere has a dealer rep in the area almost daily.
Yeah our Cat dealer is being a total ass. They act like they really care about your business when you are talking with them but as soon as you leave you know they forget about you. Our Volvo dealer is great they give us excelent service, and even keep a rental on hand at there local dealer when our loader needs service, and we bought that machine in 1997 or 1999 I can't remember:beatsme .
:notworthy I have to remember that one next time I talk to my insurance company :notworthy
Sounds kinda like operator abuse to me, The sheet metal wasnt designed to smash into trees. Do that in any machine and that will happen
Mack, it's my opinion but like yours and most other businesses, dealers can provide good service only if they can turn a profit at the end of the day. Caterpillar's and other OEM dealers stay successful by providing equipment to you guys, you occasionally breaking them, employing them to fix 'em using parts supplied by them, you eventually wearing them out and hopefully buying another. Once inside that cycle the excellent service everyone loves can be provided. Realistically in todays market there is very little profit just in selling a new machine, and it can be a zero or negative profit at the dealer when a trade in is involved. The dealer's benefit can come in parts and service revenue over the machines life cycle...
Some, well OK, a long time ago, Wyoming Machinery was that way. No interest in the ranchers and little contractors as they had all the big mines and large road contractors, plus the missile silo and base work. I talked with a lot of ranchers and smaller contractors around the northeast part of the state back then and they were buying anything but Cat. Some were pretty bitter about it. The dealer also fought hard to prevent other Cat dealers from coming into their territory, and bitched when out of state contractors brought their own iron in for work on various projects. But, Caterpillar Corporate keeps an eye on stuff like that, especially these days when orders for 651's are slow and are not the only products they make and sell. I know that Cat had a few "come to Jesus" meetings with the ownership in Casper. The last dealings I had with Wyoming Machinery, they were working hard to service everybody, their main problem these days being -- like so many other dealerships -- is they can't hire enough technicians. But they do work with the little guys a whole lot better than they used to. I know that some small outfits don't have a purchasing department. That's the owner working off the kitchen table after supper, and after a day out digging footings and running a crew and equipment himself. But, if those having trouble with a dealership don't make some noise to the big Cat house in Peoria, or at least the district rep, then the dealer will continue to be sloppy and inattentive. Cat has been known to take over dealerships that were not cutting the mustard, and I've known more than one sales rep that went down the road muttering to his lunch bucket after being fired for poor performence. Just make sure you have a good case to present when registering a complaint. The choice is yours. If I sound a little partial to Cat, it's because I am. I've worked for fine dealerships selling Allis-Chalmers, International, Poclain, Galion, International Trucks, and Cedar Rapids. These were all pretty good people whom slowly got swallowed up as markets and technology changed. Cat adjusted -- slowly sometimes -- and continued to build a strong dealership network, one you can trust to be there next week or ten years down the road. But I would still rather run a good strong International TD25C dozer any day.
That's not exactly how we operate but it is pretty close. Most of our purchasing department work is done in the cab of a F250 on our way to another job.
I know Mack, I know. I did that for years. Practically lived in Ford pickups.
Welcome to HEF Big John! :drinkup
my cat dealer did the same thing. Tried to sell me a d6n w cab for 245,000 with no warranty. then told me if i dont like the price it's no big deal he doesnt need by business anyway. Also told me i was too young and biting off more than i could chew. then sent me a $13000.00 demo bill. i went about 3 hr's down the road purchased d6n lgp cab and air 5000 hr warranty and aro ready for $226,000.00 with 0 hours. maybe the price isnt that big of a deal but the attitude of the branch in lafayette is ridiculous. after i bought the machine they called the other branch and had a whole lot to say to them. i believe if your going to give some company millions of dollars you should be able to buy from whoever you want. all the district bs is for the birds.
You should take a look at the new SANY excavtors
The problem I see is getting in front of guys is that they are extremly busy so reps have to keep trying
Thank you Sir, glad to be here :drinkup
Well put, Countryboy. As I've mentioned before, we have a Cat rental fleet with 30 + pieces of their iron ranging from mini 301.6's on up to 330's, and several D-3's, etc. Cat is getting proud of themselves lately with us, and wants some financial commitments that we are not interested in at this time. I personally have the task of shopping the market to find better prices on other brands, as I have convinced the owner that being a multi-branded dealer will improve our bottom line, and save substantial initial capital investment. A Komatsu excavator in the 30K lb. class is $30K less money than the over-rated, overpriced Cat brand new, for example. Nothing wrong with Komatsu...same animal as Hitachi, Samsung, Daewoo.They all burn soy sauce, but all in all as John C. said previously, they're ALL GOOD up to 7,500 hours. (Personally, I like to see 'em headed for the auction or to the port headed to Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, or Egypt by their 6,000th hour, myself.) We do a lot of transporting for our Cat dealer locally, and they recently knocked us out of the daily preferred carrier circles, and put the trucking out to bid. We're not running an auction...just a few $200,000.00 per unit trucks spec'd originally for their dedicated service. So we decided to let them use the lower bidders, and we can stay busy at other things, thank you. When we get a call from them asking for a price to move such and such to a point, and it's too high compared to the "competition", they refuse our service and don't use us. When we call to buy a new excavator and they tell us it's $150,000.00 and we say, "we'll give you $148,000.00,...they tell us to basically go pound sand. And it's safe to say we do a heck of an amount of business with them on an annual basis compared to a lot of people here on this forum...parts alone even. It still doesn't matter to them, they're too big for their britches nowadays. With that said, if there's another flavored dealer nearby that offers good quality service and parts availability, etc., don't be afraid to jump ship. They're all made of the same steel, plastic and fiberglass now anyways. Soy sauce all smells the same once combusted.:cool2
Welcome Big John...Hope to have a Red Stripe with you some day.:beerchug :drinkup
In the rural areas of B.C. a guy has to stick with a common brand because there is more dealer support. Deere-Komatsu and Cat are the only brands with service mechanics that work in the area. Get the odd ball brands like Hyundia (sp) Kobelco etc there isn't much dealer support. With Hitachi dominating the market so long parts availability is pretty good. Komatsu comes in second and Cat is mixed in with the other brands. Also when your in a rural area preventative maintenance is key if you see a part that is starting to fail you order the part and have it ready to go. Can't wait till it breaks or your out of business for a couple days to week or maybe 2 weeks. Dealer mechanics are busy you need to book a appointment.
Catch 22 That's an interesting point... from the dealer side the only way you can justify having a resident mechanic if there is a machine population... the only way to get machine population is to have a mechanic in the territory, mind you if they are busy like you say the dealers are making plenty of money... either warranty dolllars or service revenue
I've never seen anyone make any money on warranty repairs. Manufacturer's don't pay travel and mileage and only pay what they want for the actual repair. If the machine was any good to start with they wouldn't need a resident mechanic for at least a couple a thousand hours of use. The fact that things go wrong so often leaves the manufacturing process and distribution system in question. That's why I always recommend getting all the lies in writing before you sign on the dotted line.
The dealer mechanics are here for the mines they are perminant mechanics for the mines they do the maintenance on the equipment. So the two resident mechanics is a Cat mechanic which finally moved back to the area and a Komatsu mechanic the Deere mechanic is also in the area. Seeing the Volvo mechanic around these parts too with the mines using Volvo articulated trucks. Keep in mind the equipment in the gravel mines is going 20 hours a day 5 days a week so those machines need attention. Forestry operations go 10 hours a day 5 days a week. The excavation contractors are a different story they are not running 10 hour days a machine might work 7 hours a day. Excavation contractors don't need the dealer mechanic as much. Most excavation contractors do their own work on their equipment anyways the only time a dealer mechanic works on the machine if its a warrenty issue or its something with the engine or electronics.
Right on, John C!
I'm curious about this John, because I know that Komatsu does pay mileage (no travel time) and actual repair time is based on published flat-rate. The dealer also makes about 10% on the parts. I recall hearing that Vovo CE didn't pay travel or labor at all which means every repair you would lose your shorts (unless compensated another way)? Does anyone know what Cat, Deere and others policies are?
Hey Wulf, down here Cat cover the works in the first 6 months, travel, everything, even transporting the machine has been covered in some cases. In the 2nd six months its parts and labour but not travel...you just pay the km's. For the next 2 years its drivetrain parts and lablour only.
Generally speaking, here in the states, Cat won't pay travel time, mileage, or transport. Komatsu and Deere won't either. If you are a Kiewit or a Washington, it's different story. They have the size and muscle to force the issue and get better treatment, and, as I've said before, some smaller contractors that are up and comers or that have a good and close relationship with the local Cat house, they can get some of the extra costs covered too. But, you never clear a profit with warranty repair, cause when it's being worked on, it ain't making money.
Wait, are ya'll talking about the customer paying the dealer to travel for covered warranty repairs or are we talking about the manufacturer covering the dealer's cost to travel on site to make a warranty repair?
The manufacturer's here don't pay any mileage now days. Most don't pay any travel time and I haven't seen one pay freight to the shop unless someone got hurt real bad. One manufacturer that I know of paid a flat fee for travel no matter how far the machine was away, $25 doesn't go far for travel time. All the dealer's I know of in the Northwest charge the mileage and travel to the customer. Warranty repairs paid by the manufacturer are usually only at the dealer's loaded rate and is capped per job. If you charge $70 per hour retail the manufacturer only pays $38. I've never seen a time book for repairs on heavy equipment but in the auto industry they are written in a clean shop with all the special tools in the world and people who have done the job a few times. Now you are out in the mud or below zero weather in a field truck with basic tools. What are your chances of making book rate? That new machine with all that new technology in it that the manufacturer doesn't have time to test fully before foisting it on the public now gets a mechanic that may have never seen it before who has to figure it out for the first time cold. Most manufacturers only pay for the fix and not for the troubleshooting time. It took five hours to figure out the problem and half an hour to install the component. You get paid for one half hour, $18.50. Your minimum cost in the job is $190. Now do think you'll get rich on warranty work. Some manufacturers give discounts on the number of machines the dealer sells. Volvo used to give credits for mechanics completing correspondence courses. Komatsu used to credit the sale a percentage amount to pay for warranty issues up front. The amount that didn't get used went to the dealer's sales department's bottom line, not the service department. It's in the manufacturer's and the dealer's interest to keep warranty repair costs low. That is not necessarily the best thing for the customer. Now as Joe says someone has to pay for the down time on the machine. Only the big boys get to play that game.
I guess I was responsible for the hijack. I was talking about the manufacturer's policy for reimbursing field technicians travel time, truck km and labor costs back to the dealer. As joe indicated the dealer will sometimes pick up the costs that the manufacturer does not cover.... this includes oil and filters that are consumed carrying out warranty repairs, loaner machines, site visits when no fault was found etc.
Good point Wulf. Factory folk are cheap when it comes to warranty, dealers sometimes pick up the slack, unless, as I mentioned, you have some pull at the factory and can pick up the phone and dial the manufacturer president and CEO direct without going thru the switchboard or "waste your valuable time voice mail system." I have seen the factory step in sometimes when a dealer is being a little hard-headed. They also sometimes reimburse the dealer "out of sight," with other financial deals that lessen the bite of a big warranty claim. They work it out internally.
I may be a young operator, but have grown up around equipment and with many people who have years of experience on machines. We ourselves had a 312 CAT, very nice machines, never any major problems in 6600 hours but with the name comes $$$. I myself have had time on CAT's, Link Belts, and Komitsu's. The CAT is nice, for a smaller machine fairly well balanced and plenty of digging power(did alot of rock excavation with it as well). The Link Belts I have ran were all new or next to new rentals(for an extra machine on large projects), and everyone was very nice, plenty of power. My latest Link Belt machine was the 240X2 Long Reach. I could reach at full extension and scoop mud and muck up and on my latest project, dredging sand near the Mississippi River, and it has worked wonderful for that. As far as the Komitsus' I would never buy one. The two I have ran a 200 and 220 just are not that comfortable to me. I just can't get used to running them. The 200 always has a breaker on it at the rock quarry for busting bolders(bit bigger hammer on it then it should be) and the 220 is our quarry stripping machine, bout 5400 hours on it and just doesn't have the power I would like nor, like I stated before, is commfy for me to run(maybe its just in my head). One other note on the 220, the guy that ran it before me(won't call him an operator) beat the S*!T out of it and never and I mean NEVER did any maintance to it. So my order, if going by just machine, CAT, Link Belt, Volvo(from word of mouth) and anything else before Komitsu's. Just my two cents. Jason
Excavators I have owned several different brands of excavators over the years. If you are buying an older excavator I would say Cat for sure. But I have had the best luck and production with the John Deere/Hitachi Excavators the last 15 years. The Cats I had seemed to be slow and not have the lift capacity as the John Deere. Also the Cats are hard to dig the mud from the tracks. (that is important when you work in mud all the time) Tried several Komatsu but around 5000 to 6000 HRS. they started to give troubles, Also did not like the seat / controls. As far as dealer service and parts Cat with no hands down, Next Komatsu, then John Deere/Hitachi, then the others. Someone said they could not get Hitachi parts?? If they have a John Deere dealer you have a Hitachi dealer. Had several dealers bring me their excavators to try out, but there is no dealer support for them and they just did not seem like they were built as good. Maybe it is just the dealer I work with, but the waranty they give you all depends on the price you pay for something.
Welcome to HEF RKO! :drinkup
try out a deere. they are well balanced smooth and the hitachi pumps are hard to beat.
Excavators Going to a fairly large pipe job and going to need to add a couple excavators. So this past couple weeks We have tried out Cat, Komatsu, John Deere and a couple off brand Excavators. The off brands the guys wanted nothing to do with, to many things wrong, and no dealer support. (If they gave them to you, you could not afford them as down time kills you) The John Deere was the best, they liked every thing about it and I almost bought it, but where I live and usually do the most work there is no dealer support for John Deere. The Cat was good machine but was slower and did not have the digging capacity the John Deere or Komatsu had. The Komatsu almost was the one we bought till I tried to climb a bank. The stick did not have the power to help pull the machine along. Tried to climb the same bank with the John Deere and it climbed right up the bank. That and several other small things I ended up buying one Cat and leasing with a purchase option a John Deere to do this job. I will do this job with the John Deere and if we end up working near home I will not have to buy it. Wish we had a good John Deere dealer where I live.
John Deere Not all the John Deere use Hitachi pumps. Some John Deere's use a Linde Pump. They are a good pump you just have to make sure and use the right oil in the system and make sure the oil is clean. Some people think the only difference between the Hitachi and John Deere Excavators are the motors. That is some what right, But many John Deere Excavators also use a different pump, Hyd. valves, and Cylinders. Don't know why they do it.
The Linde pumps were used on the older model John Deere excavators, 490 & 690. Hitachi uses Kawasaki pumps on the small machines, up to ZX220 and uses the bent axis pumps on the ZX300 and up I think. Those pumps have the Hitachi casting marks but I don't think that Hitachi manufactures them. Having some experience with both machines I found the Isuzu engines far superior to the Deeres. Ring and liner problems and lots of leaks on the Deeres really soured my tast for them. Some Hitachis had Hino engines and I had problems with those. The large Hitachi machines had Cummins 855 engines and those worked well until they developed crankcase pressure from ring and liner wear. I have found the pilot controllers in the cab of both makes to be the major source of hydraulic oil leakage. They start at around the 3,500 hour mark and then you have to put new seals in every one to two thousand hours forever more. I am surprised at hearing of a travel issue in either the Cat or the Komatsu. Which model machines are you dealing with? I have watched both extensively and run a few now and then and really found both machines would go anywhere the operator had the courage to take them. Power on the stick and bucket curl seems to be a manufacturer's preference.
Excavator I leased a 350 John Deere. I bought a 320 Cat. It will be here in a few weeks. I tried a Cat 330and a Komatsu 300 and Komatsu 400. The travel on the Komatsu was Bad. If you tried to use the tracks and stick at the same time the one with the less resistance worked. The Cat was better but the John Deere was the best you could use two functions at the same time. I have had 2-690E, 790E, 890D 200,200C and have excellent luck with them. I have ran them all to about 12,000 hours or more and have not had any problems, with motors, pumps, engine or any other major problems. The 414 and 466 John Deere engines have been good for me. The 414 that I had in the two 690E would start at 20 below zero just like it was 70 degrees. I could not believe a John Deere engine would start that good. The first 690E I had a plate was left in the Hyd tank from the factory and it would suck against the suction outlet and starve the pump. That was fixed and I still Have that machine as a Demo Machine with 15,000 hours. This machine is the only one I put pilot controll seals in and that was just last week. The 2-690E had different Linde pumps in them. The 790E 890D and the two 200 had different pumps and cylinders than the Hitachi counter part. I tried to get seal kits for several cylinders from a Hitachi dealer and the parts are different. Needed a seal for a Hyd pump and the Hitachi pump was different on the 200. If I remember right the filters are different to. I do not know about the new machines. Over all If There was a good dealer for John Deere where I lived I would have all John Deere Excavators, but the dealer Is TERIBLE. We have a good Komatsu Dealer and a half a-- Cat dealer. I need dealer support as I can not afford to be down for a long time. I do not have the money to pay penalties for not getting the work done on time. Or the money to let a machine just set around. A machine has to make it's payments for me, or I can not afford it.
I agree with country boy about Komatsu.I have to say I love them kOMATSU excavators.They are fast and strong. Komatsu hydralics are smooth and percise. They burn less fuel than our comparible size cat excavators.Komatsu also has alot of nice operator friendly features.