Only makes this sound when turning right and is at its loudest with throttle set at dpf mark Cat259d
No, not normal
I thought so. I changed the hydraulic filter today and checked for metal all looked clean. Any ideas?
Did you cut the filter open to check it.?
Yes I did
Not normal. Sounds expensive.
How does fluid look, aerated?
Kinda looked a little bubbly but not super noticeable
Is there a suction screen in the hydraulic tank on that machine.? Hard to tell for sure without a Serial Number.
I’m not sure if there is a screen. Serial number is 11609085
Sorry it's not. Need the last 8 characters of the 17-character PIN. There are five possibilities for the first three of those 8 for 259D as below. The other five will be numbers.
Sorry vin is cat0259dcftl01679
It does have a suction screen. See the illustration below. To get it out will be a total PITA because the first thing is the hydraulic oil will have to be drained. The screen screws into the front of the tank. That noise you have sounds a bit like cavitation to me, hence the question about the suction screen.
Perfect I am going to investigate and I will report back. Thank you!
This looks a little promising. Maybe I am pulling air here. I am going to replace that spring clamp with a regular clamp and tighten that fitting when I come back to it Thursday.
What’s with all the black stuff everywhere on and around the hydraulic tank.? It looks just like leaking oil covered in dust. I think that clamp is on a return line BTW.
I think its just leaking hydraulic fluid. Could it be sucking air into the tank through the return?
I don’t think so. If it was leaking at that point the oil should be coming out not pulling air in.
We have 3 of those skidsteers and they all make that noise at low throttle. Some worse then others CAT mechanic said it was normal. The newest of the bunch does it the worst. Will be interesting if you guys find a fix for this.
Could be the video, but from what I'm hearing sounds not so. We run about 8 of these models.
Pulled that screen which is basically a filter got glitter and blue plastic
As per earlier comments, looks very expensive. Whether it’s the travel motor on the side making the noise or something else I wouldn’t like to express an opinion. Either way all the rest of the smaller glitter that would fit through that screen will now be everywhere. IMO you’re in for a very expensive cleanup process.
Ok so I dropped it off at Cat (worst customer service I have ever received) quoted me just shy of 30k to replace the rt side hydraulic motor and fix this plate that a previous owner welded on. They say this plate being like this wore the motor out? Does that seem right?
What exactly did the quote cover.? I'm sure there must have been more detail about what work the dealer proposed to do to it. e.g. was anything mentioned regarding cleaning of the hydrostatic/hydraulic systems.?
yes. Full flush cutting that plate off fixing it… new motor.
I am going to replace the motor myself. Is it worth buying the oem or is there any reputable rebuild companies? Also do I need to fix that plate or just weld it in better. The welds that are on there are still holding they just dont look that great and the plate looks to be still centered.
I've only had one of those drive motors apart. It was a while ago but I don't recall there being any blue plastic material like that in it. That dealer is FOS if they think that the torsion axle plate being welded to the frame caused a motor failure. Looks to me like the previous owner cross threaded the axle mounting bolts so they just welded it on. I'd try and fix the threads and avoid welding on it.
Thank you!
I bet the dealer changes the oil/filters and sends it back to you. I always pigged the drive hoses and what not after a failure and then ran a particle count to make sure the oil was clean.
I picked it up today. I can change that motor and fix that plate myself.
Can anyone pull up the tsb for that plate? The mechanic down there told me there was a bulletin on repairing that and it was a common failure on this machine. Also I ordered The final Drive assembly today it was $2950
Nothing jumps out at me. You don't have the Part Number of the plate by any chance do you.?
OK, this might be what the mechanic was referring to. There are new axles for a number of 259B & D machines to increase the camber angle and address track wear issues. To increase the camber on a "previous generation" front axle there is a procedure (attached) to do that by installing a plate. It's not really to address the fastener issues between the axle and the machine frame.
Thank you so much!!
I couldn’t see it. Maybe once I tear into it next week I will be able to
Don't worry. I found what I think he was referring to and posted it above. Make sure that all the hardware is installed in the axle mounting points and correctly tightened. Otherwise you are risking bolt breakage just like the previous owner did but McGyver'd to keep the machine running. If the threaded holes in the machine frame are damaged you may have major issues that require re-tapping and going to oversize bolts or the installation of Helcoil inserts. Unless your local supplier has Grade 10.9 metric fasteners available I would suggest that you stick with OEM Cat hardware. The parts list is attached.
Thank you for that parts list and the info! You have been very helpful!!
That list will hopefully work for the axles that fix in place using nuts & bolts. The ones I am worried about are those that have tapped holes in the machine frame. I am concerned about the condition of the threads in the frame for the other axles that may have been flogging backwards and forwards because of the loose hardware.
If the holes aren't to bad use longer bolts if more threads are available. Make sure they're not too long and don't tighten down all the way.
I’m not sure about that. I think the bolts need to be tightened down to full torque because they are the only thing holding the axles and track frames in place. If the threads in the chassis were not 100% I would possibly either look at using longer bolts with nuts on the back side or tap the holes out one size larger and use a larger diameter bolt.
So how did we arrive at the fact that it's the motor that failed? I would be inspecting the right drive pump as well. I would be more inclined to believe that it might be the pump causing the noise.
I’m not sure about that. I think the bolts need to be tightened down to full torque because they are the only thing holding the axles and track frames in place. If the threads in the chassis were not 100% I would possibly either look at using longer bolts with nuts on the back side or tap the holes out one size larger and use a larger diameter bolt.
100% with you there. Like I posted earlier, the 1 or 2 times I've had those drive motors apart I don't recall any blue seal material in there.
I had a 279d that the bearing race in between the front and rear pump moved in the bore causing the port plate to move around. It would make noise under load and not track straight.
They said they pulled the speed sensors out of the right and left and the right was caked with metal
Its a closed loop hydrostat so what ever you see in the motor will circulate through the pump. If you change only the motor you will probably be throwing that money away. It makes me wonder about a dealership that would quote you to only change the motor and not inspect the pump too.
It’s the worst customer service I have ever received in my life.
Tore into it this morning looks like the bolts just came loose on that axle. Previous owner appears to have welded it drilled it and put nuts on the backside that came loose. Can someone point me into the direction of the pump I should be inspecting?
Is it a front or a rear axle you’re referring to.?
Rear
Ah, those are the ones with the tapped holes in the frame. The problem will be if the holes in the axle/frame have been worn oval. Go up a size in bolts to M18 and re-tap the frame maybe.? Otherwise as an option use longer bolts with nuts on the inside of the frame and tack-weld the nuts to the frame. Assemble with Loctite either way as a belt and braces solution maybe.?
I think I am going to tack the nuts
A sensible idea. However you do it if there is too much clearance between the bolt and the hole as a result of the holes being worn oval I think you will always struggle to keep the hardware tight.
I think I am going to go m18 and weld the nuts.
Sounds like a plan. I would suggest that you use 10.9 grade bolts rather than 8.8.
Perfect. Thanks for your help. Do you know is the 258-2555 pump the pump that feeds the travel motor? I am worried that this may have a pump failure as well and I want to inspect before putting that 3k dollar motor in there.
No the hydrostatic drive pump is the 378-2822, item #2 on the illustration below, mounted right behind the engine flywheel.
Yikes that thing is a beast
Attached the procedures for disassembly and assembly.
Thank you!!
I took the right motor apart and didn’t see anything obvious. Then I cleaned the hydraulic tank out which appears to have brass and metal.
And that brass & metal is going to be everywhere in the system. Pumps, valves, cylinders, etc, etc. The clean-up will be a challenge if you don't want anything else to fail as a result. What about the roller bearing that came out of the motor in pieces.?
I dropped it and broke it lol
Am I seeing things or are those brake plates messed up? Flip that pump barrel over and let us see the other side. Also flip the port plate over so we can see it. Those are very important sealing surfaces that should be protected meaning not face down on the concrete.
Wash up the parts for inspection. Probably some wear on the port plate but hard to tell. Kinda hurts to see that sand being ground into the barrel. If you are taking the pumps apart do not roll them around in the dirt. Cover a bench in clean plywood or cardboard.
Agreed. It makes me cringe seeing precision-ground components being treated like that.
Nord-Lock washers would be a good way to keep the bolts tight and they won't vibrate loose.
I've used those and didn't have good results. They spin loose as a unit. The flat side slips.
They also have Nord Lock X series for extreme applications that have a spring type clamp in a dictionary to the ranching type Lock. There are some applications they aren't recommended such as if the surface they are clamped against is harder than the washer. They don't have a smooth flat surface and the little notches dig into the surface they are camping against.
Stupid auto correct. It should say having a spring type clamp in addition to the ratcheting type lock.
Haven’t had time to clean up those parts for inspection. I threw the new motor on and while reinstalling I noticed this is missing the retainer. Like it had the bolts in it and I pulled them but I didn’t even notice there was no retainer when I pulled everything apart. I had to rewatch my gopro footage after searching for the missing piece for an hr . So the back of this hasn’t even been bolted the whole time I’ve owned it. I wonder if this was contributing to the whine when turning right. You can see the bolt prints on the face. Someone put this back together with out the retaining plate.
That missing plate wouldn’t cause the whine... that’s probably seized together (it is on my 259d... those things are a bad design) and the previous owner tried to get it apart without luck. Track bushings Any ideas on how to get this spherical bushing out of the track frame? It’s seized to the axle shaft and I can’t slide the frame out to even get at replacing the bushing. Other side was easy but this side won’t respond to heat/penetrant or leverage from the back. HeavyEquipmentForums
Cleaned Hydraulic Tank blew out all the lines with air. New filters. Got a new retainer plate. Sounds the same left to right now??? I think its fixed ?
Be prepared for a few more filter changes in short order and cut every one to inspect for the presence of particles. I’d say after no more than a couple of days, then a week after that, then every week until the filters come out spotlessly clean.
Thank you! And thanks for all the help
In addition to changing/cutting filters why not grab an oil sample kit or two from the dealer? Take a live sample from the port at the fan motor and send it off. Then when results come back look at the ISO code under the contamination or cleanliness heading. Anything higher then an ISO 18/15means it's time to drain/refill and change filters again. Great job on the repair but keep in mind repeat failures are very common in these things due to contamination from previous failures.
Got 10hrs of run time so far filter looked good no weird noises. Going to leave this video here for future people reading this thread. Not really a how to video but maybe somebody can learn from my dumb mistakes. Cat