Ok. So my caterpillar d6d 4x series 3306 turbo bulldozer has a blown head gasket and fried radiator. Or so I hope that's all.......? Pushing water out exhaust. Engine oil is clean. Runs good. Steam exhaust. Radiator was getting bent fins, easily caked over with mud, and getting close to running hot. One stupid operator yesterday morning and I wasn't on the job that moment....but it happened..... Machine has roughly 8000 hours. So, I'd like to know, is there a headgasket quality difference between costex brand, McCord, cleavite, whatever napa or Heavyquip sells, and caterpillar? What gasket set will I need for this project? What about radiator cores? Cat versus aftermarket? Heavyquip sells a radiator core....I have an account there. Brass fins or steel? Price? So while I have this thing part, what should I check while I'm doing this? Injector flow test? I do have one injector slightly off on cold morning startup idle until it gets warmed up or revved a bit. Thanks!
The one injector off slightly is likely the cyl leaking coolant in and not firing until engine is hot. A copper core will get rid of more heat than steel. You likely have a low liner but may have a cracked head if overheated a lot. You need to observe the iron carefully and determine the cause first. Later Bob
With 8,000 hrs and the head coming off, I would check the rocker arm bushings while things are apart.
I would think you need to also strip off all the water line from the water pump to the block inlet and clean out the oil cooler core set up, the fluff on a cylinder from cold is as already said from the duff cylinder, this usualy results in a damaged injector, I am thinking this might be a D.I. engine (no heater plugs) so a set of injectors or tips (P.C.) the head will need the usual valve guides and springs a picture of the engine would help some , on the cylinder liner thing this is not a bad job to tackle on D6D's and is easily done in frame, I.P.D. engine parts are about as good as it gets,the core replacement is Hot Dipped or what ever is for your pocket to sort after the engine is sorted, as a final note after all this fluid cooling drama its worth resealing the water pump the parts in the U.K. are around the £40 spot for this task, your pump will have the wide outlet if its D.I. tctractors
It is a direct injection I believe. No glow plugs. I will be sending he head to my local cylinder head shop for inspection and whatever repairs.... If the head is cracked,,,,,,should I have it repaired or replaced? If relaxed...what brand of head is good and which is bad? Should I buy a loaded head with the valves and stuff....or use my stuff and mix and match the good and bad in the head?
If you have the cash, go with a remanufactured head. Give them your core and get something that will last. Mixing parts sometimes results in a dropped valve or other unexpected issues.
As Bob already pointed out the root cause of your problems with the head gasket might possibly lie with a cylinder liner that does not have the correct protrusion out of the top of the block. Make sure the liner hieghts are measured and rectified if necessary. I would assume that if nothing else while the head is off you'll be fitting new liner seals anyway.
Thanks so far! Ok, so the radiator issue causing overheating would result in liner problems? Or the combination and hours on machine is common with liner problems and in addition to that the radiator issue causes a blown head gasket and/or cracked head? I'm worried about this liner issue. So I'm probably gonna be buying an In frame kit? Liners, pistons, bearings, oil pump, cam, and all that too? What brands of liner kits should I stay away from? I may be using Heavyquip out of Knoxville. What brand are they selling typically? Costs on all this? Also, what's the best technique to measure the liners? Anyone have a systematic step by step and picture guide and took usage to measure the liners? I'd appreciate it. I am somewhat familiar with some problems in a 3406 c15 style truck engine.....but had someone come measure it for us. Thanks so much! Sorry to ask so many questions but maybe this thread will be a great 3306 archive guide.
An in frame repair on this engine should realy stick to the head off sump off if liners are faulty, the camshaft is best done engine out and save messing around as the engine pops out easy, the overheating issue you have will need to be fully sorted to make any coins spent viable, this includes stripping the oil cooler section for cleaning, on the cylinder head spend out the head shop will soon let you know how things stand, they will be well up on sorting this item into a good lump fit to bolt down, the next item is now I know its D.I. does it have a spacer plate? the cam lift is 330 thou by the way also what did the head gasket look like on lifting the head? you need to post a few snaps. tctractors
Ok. I am getting the blade off now and gotta get pressure washer cranked to spray off machine so I can tear it down. I will be posting pics. Thanks so much.
Here is the info on my bulldozer: Caterpillar d6d bulldozer serial # Vehicle: D6D Serial #: 04x07840 arrangement #: 9p2442 engine: 3306 serial #: 8z008410 arrangement #: 7n1398 transmission#: 2ha03884 arrangement#: 7g4245
If you pull the engine, take the block to a good shop and have them do a line bore check for the crank and cam. You will have it stripped down and the checks are good insurance against heartbreak later.
Cat just quoted me a radiator core for: 7n4384 core $2105.89 A while back, Heavyquip quoted me roughly $1000.00 for a core. What are the differences you think?
Weight and material.
Are you saying weight and material as in....the cat radiator is heavier and totally better? Would you put aftermarket or cat core?
I had a similar issue with my D, and it is about 150 #'s newer than yours. I used a cat reman head, was around 1700 or so with good core, old radiator was junk, replaced with new but aftermarket from a radiator shop. reman water pump which also included all new pulleys (they were so worn out I don't know what was turning the fan) and complete rebuild of the fan bearings/cast bearing holders. New injectors with two new injector lines, the turbo was shot so that went too.. got it all cranked up and wow that motor will not heat up at all. ran about an hour and something in the injection pump let go so that got the complete reman job too. I will say this motor runs like you would imagine after all that now. this was just the beginning of my fun but I do love this old tractor. I did not compare the cat vs aftermarket radiator, but this one works very well, and it was a little over a grand with new gaskets for the tanks.
Give RoCore a call http://www.rocore.com/ I got a core from them for my D6c. Looked good and was more like $1200 if memory serves. Wouldn't surprise me if they make them for Cat.
Before you get started you should acquire the parts and service manuals for your unit. Here's the liner spec info...
Make sure and check the oil cooler like TC said. Mine was 80% plugged. When I cleaned it then all the junk still in the engine plugged my radiator. Good luck and keep us informed.
Hello. Thanks with replies so far. Just borrowed a service manual for a d6d from a mechanic. Pressure washer is causing problems. Gotta repair that....slight delay. Do I need a liner puller? And to reinstall, do I need a liner press tool of some kind? Or a block of wood on the last pop? It's been a long time since I've been on the inside of a 3306. What about crank bearings and crank of info an inframe. Do I need to fro the crank totally or just look at it as I soon it to see? Engine runs great....just water in exhaust. Getting quote from Heavyquip. I think they sell cleavite?
If your engine was running good prior to the mishap, an inspection to the liners after pulling the head would be first before tearing down any further. We have seen 3306's go well past 10k hours running great. Since no water in the oil, I would be thinking probably cracked head from overheat, pretty common on the 3300 series. If it hit 240 before cooling down, you'll likely find a crack between the injector port and a valve seat on one or more of the cylinders. As others have said... checking liner projection is just part of the process any time the head comes off, and is very important. Take your time and do it right. If you decide to do an inframe, you'll need a liner puller. It's easy to damage the block without one. I would pull a couple rod caps off and one of two main caps to see how the bearings and crank look also.
Try Agkits I bought a 3208 kit from them. Very resonable. Pistons were FP, bearings were clevite, gaskets were fel pro. Top quality stuff.
if your motor was holding good oil pressure at idle when warm, I doubt it needs bearings. if it wasn't using oil it most likely doesn't need sleeves/pistons. these motors were produced at a hp setting of 140 which from a 10L engine is really light duty giving an extremely long service life. ditto on replacing the trans oil cooler, mine was stuck as well. flush the cooling system liberally before you put the new one in line.
I put a new trans cooler on this machine less than 250 hours ago. Maybe less than that.... Really helped clear up the oil! Trans doesn't have a lot of hours on it. So where would I buy a liner removal tool? I'm in a small town. We have nap, autozone. Oreillys. And a yancey cat 2 hours away. Also a Heavyquip in Knoxville 2 hours and 20 minutes away. We used to make them out do threaded rod and some blocks of steal. Can't find it! Thanks for then liner measurement picture! So I do not have those tools to measure liner height as seen in that pic. Any other way to measure it just as good? As far as installation, I can hand push the liners in? Tap the last few inches with a block of wood? It has good oil pressure. Clean oil. Maybe an overhaul would be smart? A new Oil pump too? Thinking about ordering the Heavyquip radiator core. Will I regret this? Cam might be ok right? How to tell? Thanks!
Ok. Got the head off. Can't find a crack. Just delivered it to machine shop. Liners look good as far as where the piston makes contact with inside liners. Haven't measured the liner height yet. I don't have the cat tools to do so so I'll need to fab up something. Maybe some short bolts to hold spacer plate down? Machinist said I'll probably wanna recondition head. He said the rockers were ok....only a few tips had minor wear. He said that he thinks I should have the counter bores machines or it will do it again. But he hasn't seen my liners....only the delivery of my head. What to do? He wants $800 t come out and cut counter bores and the. Have me order liner kit and shims. Any ideas?
Look at the head gasket and look for a blown fire ring, that will show you were the liner is low. Later Bob
Thanks bob. Maybe when I get back to my shop I can show a picture of the head gasket. The machinist looked at the head and just pointed to some dark discoloration around the outside edge of fire ring marking. But couldn't it also just be the fire ring deteriorated itself? If I did need liners, do I always need to have the counter bore machined out? The injectors are so hard to pull out. Wow.
What counter bore? this engine has a spacer plate, your best line would be to find a good CAT mechanic to sort your engine correctly with the tooling needed for the task, if the block needs a cut and shim? (Mira cutter) the $800 price sounds high for around a 1 hour job unless there is a long travel involved. tctractors
Thanks tcttractors. How much is that counterbore cutting tool. Can't find a price online. So my engine doesn't have counterbore space under liner? I basically have either a cracked head or head gasket blown due to a busted radiator. But I just wanted to do what is right. It sounds like I'm supposed to buy an extra $500 spacer plate and cut up my old one and use four corners of it with shorter bolts and washers clamping it down. Then measure the liner height with a dial indicator. Then, if I wanna put in new liners, I need to cut the counterbore and then measure the new liners and shim them too! So I guess I should go ahead and pull the engine and take it to cat or some place that has a counterbore tool? Seems crazy. Almost like I could but the tool and stuff to do it myself cheaper. But an extra spacer plate is crazy Just to clamp with.....
The spacer plate is reusable and should clean up easily, below the plate is a steel shim style gasket that will need replacing, with the top deck all cleaned up then the steel joint gasket and the spacer plate fitted and bolted down with short clamp bolts with washers to hold the liners in place, you can then set about the liner hight check as specified in your service book, the Swiss Mira cutting tool might not be needed? what is needed is a few pictures including the old head gasket, if the block needs cutting you cannot do it until you have the new cylinder liners, they are fitted without the seal rings until the hight is confirmed, the word you need to forget is "Counter Bore" as you Sir have non of these, don't cut your spacer plate you will be wasting your time, effort and coins doing so, who ever told you that **** needs to learn his trade a lot more or try some other less demanding direction. tctractors. with just enough TTTTT's
NO! just clean up your plate, top deck of block and liner flanges. Inspect the top deck with liner out and you will see signs of the liners fretting on it. It may be hard to visualize but the block, head and gasket are all vibrating as the engine runs. The mating part surfaces work against each other and that results in a low liner. Look at the gasket for a blown fire ring then look at block deck in that area. Later Bob
Don't buy the cutting tool! It's expensive and so is the learning curve that comes in the box with it. Hire this work done, variation in price may be the amount of clean up to be done by them. It needs to be clean and they may want to do it to be sure it's done to suit themselves. Later Bob
Take a look here on HEF at the track loader forum. Look at the thread "Cat 951-C in my sights" I posted my entire engine overhaul starting on page 26. You can read how I accomplished some of the task that you are talking about. Harbor Freight tools as pictured in my thread to measure your liner protrusion, about $35.00 for micrometer and magnetic stand. If you have a spacer plate, from what I understand, you don't have a counter bore. Check out my fabricated liner removal and replacement tools. If you need them, I would be glad to lend them to you, just pay the postage and return them to me when finished. My engine is a 330C but the tooling will work on a 3304 or 3306. There is a lot of information and pictures in that thread that you can put to use and apply to your 3306. My complete engine overhaul is covered with pictures. Really good Caterpillar parts supply close to you in Alcoa Tn. "Off Road Equipment" with great prices, 865-379-7895. They are at the Knoxville airport exit. I deal with them for all of my Cat parts. Ask for Jeff Robinson, he is very knowledgeable about old cats. My complete engine overhaul kit was $571.00.
Ok. Thanks. I took the head off myself. I know it has a metal gasket under the spacer plate. What I'm not sure of is the proper word for the liner groove in the block. Or the recessed notch. What I wanna determine is whether or not I have a liner height problem. If I do not, since my engine oil is clean and engine times fine....I can just put a new head gasket on it and run another 5000 hours. Or, if I do have a height problem with the liners, I would then order my liners...but then I need to figure out what to do about the liner notch and how to get shims or whatever. I'd like to just put a head back on it and my new radiator and go on....but at the same time I don't wanna blow a head gasket a month later because of original old liner height. I drove down to atlanta today to the cat yancey dealer. And visited a few engine shops. They mentioned at yancey that use an old spacer plate and cut off the corners and short bolts to clamp down spacer player and measure the liner height. Then....if I have a problem....I order new liners and then clamp it down and measure again to make sure new liners have correct height. So, in a sense...it's almost as if I should just go ahead and order new liners and start measuring the setup for the new ones and forget the old liners. But...my old liners seems fine and I'm not getting any water in my oil either. The head gasket or head crack had to be a result of the blown radiator but the overheating could have caused line movement. I will be getting detailed pictures ASAP when I get back up to my shop after a family member hospital visit while in the city.
Here is the instructions for the spacer plate version.....
Thank you soooo much Old Magnet! I guess I could make that slotted liner press bar right? Or cat sells it for a chunk I bet..... You think bolts with washer will damage my spacer plate? If I have to spin my old liner around....how? I guess that just means order new ones right? And....your instruction sheet says "counterbore" all over it. So now I am confused. That is what cat and the machine shop called it. Thanks old magnet.
When a spacer plate engine is new, the face of the block is a machined flat surface and the liner flanges sit on it. If you remove your liners and find thin shims under them, that means someone has already been in there and repaired erosion damage to the block. As far as clamping the liners down goes, I've got some short bolts and thick brass washers which I use instead of the crosshead in the picture.
You don't need anything fancy to clamp down the liners, couple of capscrews with big washers that overlap the liner works fine. You do want to clamp them down even for measurement check. Even the projection can be checked just with blocks and feeler gauge although a cheap dial indicator is handy to use. Yes, rotating the liner for best fit is for installing new.
I don't understand all of the fuss. If your machine blew a head gasket and you don't see a cracked head, just replace the head gasket, then fire it up and give it a chance. If you insist on checking the liner protrusion while you are at it go to Harbor Freight and outlay the $35.00 for the dial indicator and magnetic stand. Tractor Supply has the grade 8 bolts and washers to clamp down the spacer, good enough to check your liner protrusion if it is indeed off enough to blow a gasket. If you insist on using the cross bar, just pick up two pieces of steel 1"x 1"x 6" , lay them across the liner and bolt them down with short bolts, aprox 4 " with washers. Time and material to just replace the head gasket is very little with minimal down time to your machine. If the gamble turns out wrong, she will just blow another head gasket. No big deal, then you can have a closer look and tear it down further if need be. It looks like a no brainer with an easy fix me. I like to use my head and save my wallet.
I'm with Note lite on this one.It will probably have all the problems that have been discussed here but it may also be just a cracked head or gasket caused by a naff radiator and worn pulleys.As TC says,if you choose just to do the in frame repair,then a good flush of the coolers and block will help.Even with dropped liners I have had D8's go on for ever and a day.I used to put heads on every six months on one of the D8's that had No 2 liner dropped damn near into the sump!!
I said the the same thing as nitelight back on the first page. all this seems to be an excercise in futility..
Head gasket doesn't look that bad. The red rubber things with brass inserts were rotten. Could that have been the failure? Some head bolts were easier to loosen than others. Still haven't heard from machine if head is cracked. I will get brass washers and bikes and clamp down my spacer plate and metal gasket. Then I'll make a slotted bar to clamp down liners and double check what I've got. Maybe I can just slap it together. I guess brass washers are hard to find in stores? Will need to make some I suppose.,,on a lathe. I think maybe brass washers won't hurt my spacer plate?
I got my brass washers through the Cat parts system but that was many summers ago. They wouldn't be hard to turn on a lathe and if you make them to the right dimensions they will clamp the spacer plate and the liner flange at the same time.
The "red rubber things with brass inserts" are the ferrules that seal the coolant passages that run from the block into the head, they generally melt if there is a cylinder head/head gasket issues because they are subjected to all the heat when they are no longer full of coolant. I would guess that the ones closest to where the head gasket failed will be the most damaged, others further away will be in relatively better condition. The fact that some head bolts were easier to loosen than others alludes that the head has likely been pretty hot. It would surprise me if the head wasn't cracked but sometimes things do surprise you. Unlike others who would just throw a new head gasket on it, if it was mine I would take the time to check the liner protrusion before reassembling it. Let's face it, it's already disassembled. You don't want it to fail again so what exactly do you have to lose by doing some measurements before you stick it all back together. At least with said measurements you will know for sure what you have before you put it all back together.
Good advice Nige, Reminds me of a couple of sayings.... Do it right, do it once, and be done with it. Never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.
Thanks everyone and thanks Nige. We are on the same page with this idea. Visual inspection of head has she on no cracks but I'm awaiting my machinist to tell me after magnaflux. If head turns out ok I'm getting a recondition. Only two valve guides showed minimal wear. Awaiting my new radiator to arrive from Heavyquip. I am also waiting on yancey cat to check my injectors. One shop said the model of Dozer was too old and they had no adapter for pencil injectors that old and they will send to the big shop to test. Aftermarket injector shops said they can't test cat stuff and especially cat stuff this old? I mean gosh....a 3306? It's like the small block Chevy of Dozer engines right? One injector sounded as if it was off at cold morning startup. But when I throttled up and it warmed up...ran perfect. Can I buy just one? Will it be out of balance ? Surely not.... I wonder what I can't put around the injector to keeping it from seezing in head. They were a bear to get out. And by the way...the ferrules .....could they let coolant expand and get over in through fire ring to piston if head bolt loosened and such? Head and head gasket look kinda ok visually but ferrules...terrible shape!
In my experience ferrule condition is generally the result of an overheating event, and not often the cause of one. If a cooling system is overheated numerous times then eventually it's a toss-up whether the head gasket or a ferrule will fail. However if a ferrule fails then a common consequence is an external coolant leak which is usually easily spotted. A ferrule can also fail if the fire ring of the head gasket lets go and directs hot combustion gas right at that one particular ferrule. In that scenario you'll have one completely melted ferrule and the rest in pretty reasonable shape. If you have one dubious injector and Yancey's service shop can test them then I would assume they could also recon one or all of them if necessary. They can also set all 6 to exactly the same fuel delivery. If that one you're worried about is really bad then maybe a simple replacement might be better value, even so it can still be set to the same fuel delivery as the other five.
These are some examples of my ferrules. What do you think? A few got dropped when my helper was balancing the head as I pulled it off block with chained hooked to my excavator as a hoist.
The "crinkling" of the inner tube is an indication that they've been pretty hot. Were they all like that or just the ones in the area where the head gasket failed..?
Only some of them were this bad. The head gasket looks pretty decent for the age. The liner protrusion marks in the gasket material look the same across the gasket material. Crossing fingers that the head isn't cracked when machine shop calls with magnaflux info.... Maybe the head bolts loosening allowed water to escape ferrel and wash over into cylinder?
I would say that the head bolts loosening were most likely a result of the gasket failure, not the cause of it. Others might disagree.
I'm with Nige; this thing overheated for some reason. Be careful and observant when you start it up again. The rebuild may be the effect of a yet unknown cause.
The radiator was getting bad and find bent over badly...uncombable....and impossible to clean. I think if flute finally blew out with my operator and he was a dumbass. Actually....I think a younger guy got on it to do something and of course he was really ignorant! No one will tell me...the owner the truth! I'm still awaiting the machine shop to tell me about magnaflux and head crackage. Do you think the ferrules blew and the loose head bolts allows coolant to get in cylinders? The gasket doesn't look too bad though....which is odd. Not a lot of markings. I don't see anything wrong with the liners from visual inspection. So, I don't see any cracks or holes. Looks pretty good. I'm in search of some brass washers and shorter head bolts to has the spacer plate down to measure the liner protrusion. I don't wanna dent the spacer plate. I'm in a rural location. I'm thinking I might get some copper pipe and mash it flat with hammer and drill hole in it....or get a load of brass shim stock and layer it up..... Idk. I don't have any good places to buy stuff like that. Cat dealer is 2 hours away..... I think I'll take a tractor drawbar and cut it and drill hole in it for head bolt measurement and use it to clamp down my liner so I can do my measurement. I guess a narrow piece of metal like that won't damage my liner running across it as a clamp? So I clamp and measure each one as i go an write it on a notepad?
We use some hard washers and a composite washer for clamping, pretty sure we got them from cat, the composite washers are to prevent marring the spacer plate. For the bar we use a smaller puller bar and it works fine. We have a small block of steel we machined to hold the dial indicator and is easy to move around the spacer plate. The whole idea is to bolt down the spacer plate with the seal under it, clamp the liner and measure in 4 places to make sure the fire ring lip is actually above the spacer plate so the gasket gets proper crush on the fire ring to seal. It has to be within spec so as not be too high or too low. Be sure to use the specs from page 1 or 2 and you'll be all set. Also make sure the block deck is in good shape where the ferrules seal, those old engines had a habit of eroding there.
How do you remedy a corroded ferrule hole?
You mean in the block, not the spacer plate, right? Minor pitting can be built up with one of the proprietary metal paste epoxies. If it's bad, it will need to be machined out and have an insert made.
Oh, ok. Makes sense. So cat sell that? Do I just smear it in like bondo and then take a dremel took and smooth it down? What is it called? Any aftermarket brands of paste? Thanks!
Yep. That's about all there is to it. Belzona is a brand name I've used in the past. Not sure if it's available in the US.
Do you have a good close-up photo showing the damage..? I know there is a procedure for rectifying pitting at ferrule l,ocations on 3500 engine blocks, it would probably work just as well on this one also. If the block is pitted it's a fair bet the head will be also pitted in the same location.
Would a jb-weld brand work? I just smear it in with my finger tip over the pits and then take a Dremel tool and bur it down? Maybe stuff a piece of rag in hole so it doesn't fall into port? I will work on getting a picture. I smeared motor oil all over the top of my block and liner to keep it from rusting while waiting on cylinder head. Ok...the bad news. So.....my machine shop called and said that my head is cracked inside #6 exhaust port and its unfixable. Damn. So, I call cat. Cat wants $1589.37 for a loaded head. Core charge is $1293.06. They say my core will work and they have a way to fix it. How? Maybe I can get mine fixed!! But where? Ok. So, Heavyquip wants $1050.00 for a loaded cylinder head new. I ordered that sucker. They haven't had any warranty issues on 20 heads in last two years. I got the parts guy to look it up. What do you think?
Cat will give you the Core Deposit on your old head so that they can melt it down and cast a new one. It helps them maintain a guaranteed material quality basically. The Cat procedure for the block/head joint face on the 3306 specifies Belzona "Ceramic R". What you have to be careful of is to use something that will resist the operating temperature of the engine without the epoxy breaking down. If you want a copy send me a PM with your email address and I'll gladly forward it on to you.
I will see if napa can get that brand ordered. Cat has a kit called epoxy cups and it has 10 cups. Here is a copy and paste of the notes I made as I talked to parts guy: Epoxy mixer cups: High strength bonding and filling 10 cups $35.00 each Part number 5p3321 Manifold sealer : $130.00 per can Part # 2p2333 The ferrules only reside in the spacer plate correct? So I would be epoxying the spacer plate. The block wouldn't matter as long as the ferrel didn't fall in the hole right?
The Cat epoxy cups are just a 2 part adhesive and not suitable for this application. You need to look for something calling itself "liquid metal" or similar then check what temperature it can stand. If a spacer plate is ever in doubt, I usually just install a new one. On the block, the area where the rubber part of the ferrule sits has to be smooth. This is where you can repair minor pitting. If the surface is eroded to the point where it is looking like a crater then that would be considered too bad to repair with epoxy.
Pics of block surface deck Oh....so you are saying the flat part has to smoothed down. Not the inside circular part.....
Yes, that's right. Until the surface of the block is cleaned up, it's hard to give an opinion, but it certainly looks like you have at least a moderate amount of corrosion around the coolant holes.
We have repaired several 3300 series blocks with Belzona Molecular Metal. It is like jb weld, only much tougher and heat resistant. The portion of the block where the silicone part of the ferrule sits is the important part. The pics of your block will show more once the surface is cleaned up, as Cmark said.
Got my radiator. ITR brand. Think it's ok? What kind of tips needed for assembling this radiator? Use any kind of gasket glue?
http://www.jbweld.com/products/highheat-epoxy-putty What a you think about this putty instead of belzona? Can't find belzona here in georgia.
Another product is made by Permatex,called perma-poxy good for temps of -51c-149c cure strength of 4500psi. 2x28 g tubes =12 aus
Going off the manufacturer's info it looks like is should be OK.
What do you think of this epoxy? It's for sale at wal mart. Haven't found the jbweld type in my area yet. Maybe I can take a wire brush on my dremel and clean out water passage at block edge and then tape around hole and epoxy it. Then sand it down?
How does the weight compare to the old one?
I used to buy Belzona products through Kaman Bearing if I recall correctly.
So..... I opened my crate that contained my new itr head. My injectors are pencil type. Is this a nozle style head? Newer upgrade? Or do I have the wrong head??? I ordered new injectors...am I needing to upgrade to better injectors? What's the difference? What do I need? Thanks.
I would say you have the wrong head. 8N1187 is a PC head, yours is a DI head. A quick check suggests that the PC engine was fitted from 04X1 thru 6607. If you told the parts supplier that your S/N was 04X7840 then I would respectfully suggest he has supplied the wrong thing. I think you need a 7N8876.
That is the wrong head. That is an older precup head. Don't worry about putting epoxy on the block it's a waste of time and may do more harm than good if the wrong epoxy is used. I have had a lot of cats apart in 30 years that have had some pitting in the block around the rubbers and have never put the epoxy in and never had a problem.
Thanks for the replies. The parts guy admitted he messed up and didn't match the serial number. Dang...put me behind another week.... So I just got the radiator out in dark (too hot in daytime). My god...what a nightmare! The bottoms cradle shroud had one bolt in it that cause it to warp as I pulled it up! I was on the excavator operating it and my helper was watching and guiding it out the hole. He didn't see the lower bolt holding it. I might be able to straighten it....or maybe I can order that part new? This thing is crazy. The fan had to lay against the radiator to come up and out with it? I couldn't get the fan out any other way and that's with the head off! The blade lift cylinder mounts and all are in the way. You think I shoulda just pulled the hard nose off and all of the front for this? Should induct tape thick cardboard against the radiator fin area and place the fan in the shroud and reinstall it like that? Any tips? Ring off the two bolts that hold the front radiator pedestal to the side of the hard nose. Tried to drill and easy out it and the tabs behind it that is the not plate broke loose. No way to get back in there to tack weld the tab. The hard nose front corners literally hold water! Rain has collected over the years I suppose. When I took bolts out of other side water poured out. My friend says he wants to tig weld a "dog turd" on the end of the bolt so we can thread it back out! Lol!
It's been a long time since I pulled a radiator out of an oval track 6 but I seem to remember the rad lifting out and leaving the fan, shroud and fan guard behind. As far as leaving the fan in the shroud leaning against the radiator, it's not at all uncommon to have to do this on many machines. Just be careful. Your piece of cardboard idea can't hurt, as long as you can get it out afterwards.
Cmark> 2 part belzona is on E-bay,Re-listed. $140
Look how bad my radiator looks! And there is the bent lower shroud piece.,
Here on the right in the hard nose is the two bolts that broke off. There is a metal tab inside the open box portion that acts as the "backing nuts".
Half of it was plugged solid, yeah? On the nut plate, is that box open at the bottom?
Heck yeah...,I couldn't blow the radiator out anymore at this point! Lol. From what I remember the box isn't open.
now I can see where your heating problem was coming from..
This will be totally different tractor now.That old rad Is totally useless.If you can,new pulleys and belts.Fan hub bearings and new Cat bolts in fan assembly.
Hard to tell from just the pictures but if that darkness is from oil leaking some where like the front seal of engine now would be the time to replace that. Also clean everything you can will help keep the new radiator clean and make finding other leaks easier. A clean machine is a happy machine. Just look at some of the pictures of nicky 68a's equipment!
I'm working on it. Putting the new radiator together. Waiting on the top tank gasket. They somehow forgot to put that in my gasket set! Lots of bolts. I'm using grade 5 stainless because the factory bolts are rusted like crazy. It should be on right? I have a couple of rubber baffles that kinda go around the radiator that are rotten. How important is that? I'm making one out of some thin conveyor belt. Cat wants like $250 for one 6inch by 20 inch flexible rubber piece! Crazy! Aircraft shroud baffling should be just as good if I wanted to order something fancy? I put some liquid steel epoxy in some pitted areas of my top and lower tank just to be careful. That should be ok right? Got the new itr head in . Gotta go pick it up at my friends business. I hope this one is the direct injection version. Is ITR a costex brand?
Very! They prevent the hot air from recirculating around the sides of the radiator.
Heck yeah! I think any heat and oil resistant material should work okay though.....
Important enough that if you don't seal the sides correctly and get the correct air flow through the radiator your new head could soon be in the same state as the old one was ....... cracked.
Also not sure of what this machine has for a pressure cap but I would be replacing that also and make sure the filler neck is in good condition. Some Cats have a separate pressure regulator valve if that is your style replace that and make sure the filler cap seal is in new condition, you have too much invested to over look the important things.
I'm with kshansen here... fix the leaks that caused the plugged radiator! A good portion of all this work is directly caused by the fuel or oil leaks that plugged the radiator and stopped air flow. All of our old 6's or 7's had the fan come out with the radiator, just a lot easier, plus you can clean the fan while its out.
The new ITR head before painting.
About to put head on
Using trackhoe to lower head onto block
Head is on. New injectors installed. Torqued to 185 foot pounds if I remember correctly. Had to borrow a torque wrench because mine broke. The deep subject that can come about torque wrenches and their accuracy...... Wow.
Would mud flap rubber make for good rubber baffling? Mine is ok except for a few rough spots that need to be patched. And I need some dirty of rubber the place between shroud and radiator ....
hope you are going through the bearings on your fan drive, mine had wobbled out the housing so the whole thing is new now. don't forget to replace the pulleys/belts if they are a "U" instead of a "V".. mine sure were.
We had to replace the fan hub bearing assembly on the job a couple of years ago. Are you talking about the bearing within each rotating blade? What should I look for on that part of it? By the way. I've always made sure to grease that sucker! Everyone forgets....
I am describing the fan drive (2p7831 group, page 16a in your parts manual). the hub that holds those bearings was shot on mine and would not hold new bearings tight any longer. didn't matter how much grease was used, accelerated wear was going to occur till the point where the fan could let fly into your new radiator. it looks really bad when that happens.
Compared to the cost of the replacement radiator whatever in the way of bearings, etc, that is required for the fan drive is peanuts. I know it's easy to spend other people's money but in this case you KNOW it makes sense .......
I used old baler belting to make new radiator baffle for my D6