Does anyone know anything about the Chinese XCMG(sold in Australia as COBRA) and Luigong graders? They all seem to say they have British Cummins and ZF transmissions in them with Japanese Hydraulic components. thinking about a cheaper grader for some light Gov't work. Regards Firetrack
These may be worth looking at as well (probably the same factory) They are Hydrostatic and use a gear set instead of chains in the bogie .
Hello Firetrack ,the xcmg has the same front as the O&K 156 motorgraders , the levers in to the cab looks as the American graders and the back is from there own .
Sino graders Ironhorse, thanks for the info on the sino graders. They look interesting and i have made contact with the importer. They are sending more info for me to drool over. They are down in Sydney and I'm in Qld but I'll probably fly down and have a look. let you know what I think after I've had a look at them. Regards Firetrack
I don't know whether the Sany tandem drive set up is a good idea - extra bearings, gears compared to the normal chain drive. I have found chain drives are fairly reliable and simple on other brands of graders. My understanding is that hydrostatic transmissions are quite in-efficient as a driveline. Sany machines are normally made from good quality components, and in orderly professional looking factories. Time will tell if they prove to be durable. I have sat in a Sany grader, and visibility was good, but never had anything to do with one operation wise.
In the 70ties used the Frisch graders for the big graders also gears into te tandems and that works very well . I have lookt at the last Bauma in Munich by the Chinese graders and are not so nice as the Amercan or European brands , but how se works i dont now but i go looking in a short time by Tianggong .
I would say that your best bet would be the Liugong. Purely because that is probably the best one. I know that Liugong has a good website for Australia, heres the link: http://www.liugongaustralia.com/ourproducts.htm
The wheel loader from Liugong is good quality.
I had a look at a SANY grader and was not really impressed. It had broken down for the 5th time in its 180hrs and the customer was not impressed The agent would not have a look (we are the VOLVO agents) so I had a look for him. On this one the hydraulic motor for LH tandem had seized. I'n no expert but the hydrostatic drive on a grader was a bit odd. There are no chains in the tandem, its all gears? The cab was odd looking inside, really did not look like a place an operator would want to spend 8 hours a day in. It had a old style Cummins of some description. Without saying they are ****, one can see where the savings are made. Everything does look thinner and smaller than the other mainstream machines but the price reflects this. My one concern with this sort of grader is parts availablity in 5 or 10 years.
i have got a wheel loader liugong CLG856 it has come with ZF 4wg200 transmission,if any one has service or parts manual of it please upload it or can send it to [email protected] , would be very usefull coz it has problem. thank you
Here's how they've modified XCMG graders to give heat to Caterpillar, Vekmaas and JD with similar functions and fraction of the price: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOh4n1NAJAs
I was not impressed by the Chinese Graders they difficult to get into cabin, getting was more than difficult was easier and more likely to fall out, I wasnt impressed by them at all ,but who knows they may be like early Japanese machines just junk to start with ,Now they are top of line superior to the Cat
you are correct that there are very bad Chinese graders out there, however the quality is improving all the time. This particular version was re-done in Europe however. The driver comfortability was enhanced pretty much. Here's a pic from the cabin: http://yallu.kapsi.fi/hpl-koneet/HPL-Koneet041_pieni.jpg and here from outside with mud guards, Xenon lights etc http://yallu.kapsi.fi/hpl-koneet/HPL-Koneet030_pieni.jpg It is safe to say that it is a well working machine with all the needed equipment and still a LOT cheaper then western machines.
I beg to differ with you truefinn. For quite some time on here I have ranted and raved about the poor quality of anything and everything coming out of china. I have been there, worked on setting up plants over there and have witnessed first hand the things they sell in this country ranging from steel, iron and steel castings, machine tools and the like. The quality of the chinese steel is inconsistent. Metallurgically what we make here in the states is infinitely superior to chinese steel. I have witnessed first hand how the chinese have changed the design of automotive break roters with out telling anyone so as to save three (3) ounces of weight per rotor. The steel castings they send here would be rejected if they came from a domestic supplier. They have not got the quality thing figured out in 25 years and I am not holding out much hope that the will in the future.
Hi truefinn, I just fell out of the chinese grader the steps were just not where they should ave been, reckon be OK for Monkey to get in and out of Cab yes they may be cheaper, but the long term cost may be higher ,depends on use too on straight road maintenance may be Ok,But use them like they are used in N Z and Australia then they wont stand the pace..The places they would operate in austarlia will try them out ,
Thank you for the answers! I give great value to your comments. However there is at least a slight difference to these machines which we ordered from Poland XCMG Europa ( http://xcmgeuropa.com/index.php/about-us.html ) to the Chinese versions. I've visited the Polish company and it is very modern factory where they import the machines and completely check and fix everything. These machines which we've imported to Finland have TUV certificate which, at least to my knowledge, should mean that the quality can not be that bad since they go through this intensive testing. Of course you have to bear in mind that in the end these machines are still much much cheaper then JD, CAT, Volvo or Veekmas. What we've done is we imported the Polish machine here and rebuilt the drive system and at least for now, everyone is happy and the conditions in Finland are quite harsh alltough I can not compare to Australia since I have no experience. I would like to get your comments on joystic steering vs manual steering? Also let me know if you wish to get more photos etc?
So what you are saying truefinn if I understand you correctly is that the chinese made machines come to Poland where they are completely gone through and everything is fixed. To me that sounds good when you say it fast, however that does not correct the metallurgically inferior steel, poor quality iron, steel and nonferrous castings and other components which were manufactured from typical chinese produced goods. We are seeing a lot of items, among them steel and iron castings production being returned here to the United States because the users of these items here have finally realized that the lost time, high scrap rates, excessive warranty claims, transportation costs and all of the other difficulties associated with dealing with the chinese are not worth the headaches. One of the major manufacturers of mining equipment who shall remain nameless in this post pulled all of their manufacturing and material procurment out of china as far back as three years ago. Face it, the chinese don't have it.
I agree with you Greg. I looked at the Sany and other Chinese equipment while at Con-Expo this year and I think it is crap, It had nice shiny paint jobs with bondo that was coming off from on top of the welds. Funny thing, Cat, Komotsu, Deere and the other repetable companies don't bondo over their welds. You get what you pay for, Quality costs Money.
No thank you. I'll stick with my trusty 140G! The a/c will freeze you out, the radio works great, that great big open Caterpillar cab, and great hydraulics. The 3306 has great power, and with 22,000 hours on it and no rebuild what-so-ever, and it doesn't use but a 1/4 quart of oil between oil changes. I'm not sure you could say that with a chinese grader.
Wow, and some say American are arrogant =) Just kidding, I give great value to your comments. It seems as if you have doubts about the quality of the steel, we have not had any problembs with it. If you want more pictures, videos of the machine performing please tell me. If there is anyway to test this bad metallurgy, let me know? May I get your gentlemen's comments on few things. What is a price for joystic driven CAT, JD or any other machine you like? I would also like to hear your comment on joystic drive in general vs normal drive where you have several levers. I've noticed that several posters have new machines from well known brands and they come with this several lever system. As English is not my native tongue, I must apologise if somethings do not come out as they are meant. I am here to share experiences and to get honest feedback like I now have from posters above. Cheers!
Truefinn welcome to the Forums. Do you have an affiliation with the XCMG company?
Thanks. I wish I had but they are pretty hard to contact. My story with XCMG so far is that I have imported one machine (the one in pics). We installed the two joystic drive system and we work only in Finland so I am not trying to sell you anything I just thought it would be fun to share experiences with fellow grader people once I noticed the amount of experience in these forums. We have first service coming up and if anyone is interested, I promise to inform you on the "bad things" as well. That's why I asked comments on what parts to follow once we get more hours to this machine.
This writing above made me search for some information and I came accross this article http://http://www.ssab.com/en/Brands/Weldox/Solutions1/Cases/Reaching-for-the-skies---XCMG/ Any comments or inside info on this? We have now 100h in the Chinese machine, so far everybody is happy and everything ok.
truefin, I don't have doubts about the quality of chinese steel and cast metal products. I am a graduate metallurgical engineer with 40 years experience (god I am getting mature here). I have been to china numerous times since 1985 setting up foundry and steel mill melt shop equipment. Check the chemical analysis of the chinese steel and compare it to the analysis of the various grades that it is supposed to match. As for chinese castings from steel, iron, and non ferrous castings, they are rampid with defects, shrinks, slag holes, burn in, off analysis, the list goes on and on. Simple fact, a piping contractor I know refuses to use chinese pipe fittings because the are pron to leaks. Automotive brake rotors come in out of round and don't meet United States safety standards. Tensile strength of their steel is all over the map. You call us arrogant? Haaaa. We produce the best steel from our mills and castings from our foundries of anyone in the whole damn world and have for many years. I have been all over the world in steel mills and foundries for almost two generations and know of what I say!!!!!!!!!!
Oh yes, one other thing truefinn. The link you posted says it is an invalid address. Please check it as I would be interested in reading it.
I am not calling Americans arrogant, just kidding and I got your attention didn't I Strange that you can not open the link, works fine by me. If you google the topic "Reaching for the skies - XCMG" it is the first article from the top. Looking forward for your comments and please comment on the joystic issue as well?
Been making that kind of steel here in the US for years. There are really no secrets in the steel business when it comes to the various grades. Every steel maker produces the same grades. The big difference comes when the world class producers put their's up against the third world who has not grasped the concept of quality, namely china.
I promise to be open and tell everything here in this forum when the steel parts in this machine break. I really do. In the meanwhile I read news where these listed Chinese companies invest huge amounts of money to R&D and claim that they want to improve quality and compete against modern brands. That money goes somewhere, maybe they really try to improve quality? A reason for this thread IMHO is to follow these Chinese companies and their machines objectively, will they follow the footsteps of Japan, Korea and even Taiwan to some extent where cheap s*!t becomes good s*!t in time. With recent posts I've presented myself as too positive with the Chinese machines, here are some negatives which I've come accross. - service hotline (non existent) - PR (what, PR is from communism times) - sales network (not created yet which confuses things) Greg, as you have long time experience in graders, would you tell your comments on joystic drive vs 10 lever drive? I personally like this system which we did for this machine, it really makes the job easier.
As mentioned in here I have spent considerable time in china since the mid 1980's. Can't say that I have seen much in the R&D department any where in china.. When Japan first started exporting from their rebuilt industries after World War II their stuff was pretty much junk too as was that of the Korea and Taiwan. It took these countries 20 years to figure it out and get their quality for the most part up to the standards of the US and Europe. The chinese have been at it since the early 1980's and still don't have it figured out nor from my experience do they seem to want to do it. I have not seen anything developed in china either. Just pretty much buy something, take it apart and copy it or steal it when every you can. Our media "pukes" in this country call what the chinese do is reverse engineering. Can't say that I have ever heard that term up unitl they needed what amounts to a "politically correct" term for copy and steal what ever you can. That is why the US manufacturers have been coming increasingly unfriendly towards the chinese. Go to Conexpo in Las Vegas and watch the US manufacturers slam the door shut on their machines when the chinese come looking. Our steel makers, foundries and other metal producers are also becoming increasingly unfriendly and suspecious. Oh ya, the japs, koreans and tawaiwanese have been known to do the same thing too. I have kicked around this business all of my professional life, steel, foundries, heavy industrial construction, excavating and grading. My experience with graders goes back to the old Caterpillar machines which were one hundred percent mechanical. Than to hydraulic when Cat converted in the G series machines. Up to this point I have not had any experience with graders with joy stick controls so I can't express any opinion pro or con. It seems that from the operators that I have talked to they either love them or hate them. Does not seem to be anything in between. It also seems to me that Europe, South America and Africa are more pron to accept the chinese manufactured products with all of their short comings than we are here in the United States. As for another case in point, I know for a fact that the chinese have come over here and purchased massive amounts of obsolete industrial manufacturing equipment. I was asked by one chinese company to sell their line of steel making furnaces here in the United States. They were supposed to be the latest and greatest. When I saw one in china it looked just like the 1952 version which they bought here and started building with the intension of selling world wide. So much for R&D and all of the money they claim to spend on it.
Cheers Greg for the info. I promised to tell bad experiences as well on our expirement. First thing we found out now was the use of wrong(undersized) cable, more of that later. Here is a video of the controls of our grader. As I am not a native English speaker feel free to correct and please share your opinnions as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKRWH8urKSw
That is just the first of many things that I am sure you will find unsatisfactory with these machines.
Well, similar positive thinking has got us so far We pretty much have tore up everything now and I wouldn't expect "many unsatifactory" things anymore. Sure there have been costs to make it better but I still believe it is a cheap and well working machine. As this topic is getting more political, I would rather speak about the machines itself. Again I promise to write about negatives as well but I would like to compare the price per hour, servicebility(?) etc maintaining costs against other brands. Can any native Engslih speaker give comments about the joystick control video?
What type of comments are you looking for? Did you make the video?
I have not uttered one political work here truefinn. Read back through my positings and it will confirm that anything I have said has been confined to comments about the quality of chinese steel, iron, steel, and non ferrous castings and the like as well as "copy cat engineering." My comments on chinese quality is based upon what I have witnessed first hand in china over the past 25 years and how they don't seem capable of or are unwilling to produce the kind of quality that we in the Western world have come to expect. As previously stated here also, the United States foundry industry is in the midst of a boom period due to lots of production being pulled from china and being returned here due to quality problems with all types of castings coming here from china.
Yes we did make the whole drive system and we made the video. We are from Finland so I would like your comments on English (does it make sense) and then about the wholse system. Would you do something differently? Greg, with political I mean that we have this very small scale project here which is based on price. Of course the components in machine which costs quarter of the price of a new "western" machine are not as good. I think pointing that out in every post is un-necessary.
Hello everyone, any French speaking grader enthusiast here? I came accross this website and article: http://phc.centerblog.net/rub-xcmg-.html I used google translate and the text says basically that Chinese has made this spectacular joystick drive and that they are producing very modern machines these days. Well.. These photos are from our grader, the pictures from our yard.. No Chinese chap has ever seen or driven this machine. Funny. If anyone knows anything about this website or the writer of this article, please let me know.
My above comments about chinese manufactured items of all kinds still stands. Every day I get more reports of items produced in china being brought back here to be made and requests from customers for equipment to make these items. Can't say that I put much credance in anything that is reported from france either. Read these kinds of articles. No matter where they come from be it Europe, Asia and yes even here in the United STates. The writers know nothing of what they write. They interview someone and basicly "parrot" what they were told. For the most part they have no technical background, have never been on a machine. All they know is how to write about what they have been told.
Serious construction requires serious equipment. Buying on the cheap means lost production, something you just cannot afford. Parts availability is the second major concern. Any oddball equipment that I have seen over the years always runs into a parts shortage. Iève been lucky enough to operate almost every Cat grader built from a Model 112 right through to an 16M, Champions from the D600 to the new Volvoès, various J.Ds and others including Allis, Adams, Komatsu, Galion and Huber. They all have their good and weak points. This I do know, Cat, Deere and Volvo all stand up pretty well, have solid ownership and a desire to build and service decent equipment. The old penny wise, pound foolish adage seems to me to apply here.
Gentleman, thank you for the posts. I agree some and disagree some. I agree that the culture in China is something that we have not got used to. There are some strange, strange things there. I disagree about parts availibity as this particular company where we bought the machine has an assembly line in Europe and spare parts are shipped same day when ordered. I still disagree about cost vs quality since we still have no problems (only few hundred hours on the machine though). Yes CAT, Volvo and JD are better machinery, so is Mercedes better then Lada but they both (usually) take you were you need to go. If we run the whole winter with still no problems with the machine, then I like to hear comments are the known brands really worth that extra money? Still gentleman, not affiliated, not even related to Chinese Just a project so keep cool. Hey Tripper, you got experience on that 16M with joystick controls? In your opinnion how does it stack up against the old 10-lever controls?
I like the new controls. Very easy on the old body. One thing I donèt care for with the M is you canèt see the windrow by your front tire unless you are articulated a bit. Also the front end seems lighter than the H series. If push came to shove and I had to be really accurate on a grade Ièd use an H series probably because of time spent in them. To operate day after day I do like the M.
Sany Grader Hello everyone and thanks tripper for the comments on joystick drive! I've bumbed into these Sany graders few times in internet and the company seems to have a presence in US as well. Can anyone tell me anything about their graders, this particular model seems interesting: http://www.sanygroup.com/abroad/america/en-us/products/SMG200.htm# Thanks
what info. do you need?
Well basically anything goes, how is the quality compared to XCMG for instance. Price level is interesting also. Do you know are these machines made in USA as they have some plant there as well? Thanks!
Lonking is the NO.1 in the sales of wheel loaders , it sold 41,000 units of wheel loaders in 2010, the wheel loaders are all of top brand quality, and we offer best after-sales service and cost perfomance. Lonking wheel loader CDM853 see more about us on www.lonkiou.com
Yeah I am sure you do, now go play with it. Mods please?
Please do not quote or reply to obvious spammers, it makes it harder for the Mods to clean up the posts. Thanks
Lonking, it is obvious that your defination of quality and ours are out of two different books.
SANY and XCMG are not the first one of making the grader in China,Sany is better,but the best one in China should be TIANGONG. Sany is good after service,and have company in USA now.
Thanks! Are you talking about these graders which are ment for Chinese markets or are you comparing to the ones in Europe? From XCMG I've seen both the Chinese version and the one we have in our videos is from Poland. Those are from totally another planet in terms of quality. Is there any website or a person who could give objective information on these machines? For instance I've asked from XCMG about their GH-series graders and they never come back to me.
could you please PM me your email address? I will send you some details for them.
SO you are saying that in america you guys make the best steel in the world? and no one comes close you because Hardox is just crap lucky you Americans make it oh wait? lol yeah typical yanker
uuh don't start with him. if you scroll few pages back, it's quite obvious that he has something against you guys You seem to know the market for these machines inside-out, I've seen these machines which are presented in Europe but I've never seen Sany or Tiangong grader. Any comments on those?
hah truefinn iam not even chinese iam australian but live here in china and got a factory and machinery business here. now about Sany well mate hounestly sany are OK but i would not go running for them just gotta look at the local market in china sany is highly regarded in there excavators but not in there graders i think they just brought the tech and devision from another chinese manufacture. like zoomillion Tiangong now i would have to disagree with the other chinese guy just because they where the first to make them in china dose not mean much to me if you wanted to say that well PenPu bulldozers where the first company state owned to build dozers and by now way are they the best. I would say XCMG and XGMA are not bad. biggest iussue with china as iam sure you know is the double standard for what they sell in the local market in china and what they export. now in my area XCMG is defferantly the biggest brand for graders. one company you should look at though mate is SEM i stated a thred about them. they are owned by CAT and there grader are basicly a 100% copie of the H series let me know if you have any other questions.
I just visited Intermat fair in Paris where some of these were present. I must somewhat disagree on XGMA as those machines were beyond horrible but then again those machines were probably designed for African markets. XCMG had a nice a copy of our joystick steering except it was not proportional and in my opinnion it was missing functions, this is typical Chinese and annoying. Sany and Zoomlion had no graders present but they were years ahead of eveyrone in terms of how the machines were presented. Any experiences on Chinese Bauma, is it worth visiting?
Was SEM there i dont think they would as CAT would not like that but there grader mate you should have a look at. and the fairs are worth going to but also becareful as they tend to put show room models there and sell you something differant also mate the XGMA is really only for devloping market places. feel free to let me know if you need any help over here mate.
No SEM was not there neither, probably because CAT was. Out of interest (and to get all the CAT owners pissed ) what is the price of these SEM graders compared to CAT? If I get a chance to come over, I'll definately buy you a beer over there.
Well mate any CAT grader made in china and sold in the local market is 40-50% cheaper then what we are paying out side of china i picked up a 140H with 512hrs on it for 80,000USD i think new they are about 140,000USD new here now in saying that SEM will be around the same price as XCMG and the other big brands as all there other machinery is also they are starting to build high track dozers here at the end of this year they will be the same as the R series cat's
So now you are over here running off your chinese kool aide induced opinion too eh? YES, we do make the best damn steel in the world here in the United States, but I am sure you don't realize it because you would not know what a good high quality piece of steel was if it fell out of the hair and hit you on the head.
mate i tell you what you dont coment on my things and i wont on yours that should keep all happy
aah, here we go again.. Didn't we have this chat earlier? We are here to share opinnions on motor graders and that's what we are doing. I definately am not Chinese and that's also what the other guy claims. I've had my troubles with the people from there believe me and never did I question the high quality of JD or CAT machines. However I've got a Chinese grader herer which, YES, needed a lot of work to be approved by our European quality standards but never has had any problems with "steel parts". I think I sent you already a link where there was some proof of their quality control over steel parts? Let's talk X's and O's of metallurgy and you show us some facts or you can go to another topic praising "the best damn steel" ok?
I recall most other developing nations went through the phase where they had some quality problems. I remember things labeled "Jap crap", and now look at Japan. Regarded as among the best you can get. Koprea had a lot of bad remarks, but as of the recent years, their reputation has gone up considerably. I know there have been problems with goods from China, but even a blind man can see that the quality from there as a whole has improved. There are top quality manufacturers in the US, but there are also poor companies here. The poor ones usually fail, but they are around. There are good manufacturers in China now, and the top companies there are getting serious about quality. There are a lot more that are pumping out cheap crap, and that is what we always hear about. I have experienced it firsthand, for example, SEC buckets. I have never seen a worse bucket. But, I know there are companies there doing much better. I am sure their prices are higher, so probably less of them make it too the US. There are importers here bringing in the cheapest stuff, and they are getting what they pay for. I am proud to be American, and believe we CAN make the best in the world. I also know that we don't always DO it. There are others who make top quality steel. Some of the companies in Scandinavia are world renowned for their quality steel. I think it is tough to beat Hardox, and you will pay dearly for it. For pure volume, That said, the reason for the forum is to have open discussion, and let people have open discussions about the equipment. There is a good cause to discuss quality issues, but painting an entire country with a "junk" label is not realistic. I am sure we can all act like adults and discuss the merits of any particular machine without resorting to the disparaging remarks.
Well spoken. I'm glad to see an attempt to return to maturity at this thread. Frankly, I was nearing the end of my tolerance for the bickering at this thread. Let's get the train back on track and return to some productive discussion.
Note: The discussion of age limitations on equipment that had followed has been moved to its own thread: here.
Can someone (JGS?) tell me something about this company: http://www.sinomach-hi.info/ I've never seen or heard of these machines but it seems as if this company is huge, goverment owned, player in Chinese markets? They seem to have some partnership with Terex and aim for Western markets, well don't they all.
hey true fin mate this compqny is not a manufacture of anything they are a trading company with a good website that is about all. i know this company they used to just be called sino equipment on alibaba but i think a few people where starring to catch on that they where not tje manufacture so they made a new site a company the size of what they are talking about would be up there with xcmg xgma luigong and others what product where u looking at getting from them? maybe i can tell u the real brrand by the looks of things there bulldozers where shanghai pengpu along with there excavators also they where selling CG Backhoes xcmg graders. well thats what i know off thetop of my head thanks JGS Machinery
Hi! Actually I think you might be mistaken (?). This Sinomach rings some bells as it is the company which is buying some land from US and there where big stories about Chinese invasion http://www.infowars.com/chinese-company-sinomach-poised-to-takeover-boise/ I believe they own companies such as Tiangong and Changling which are pretty big players in Chinese grader market but I've never seen these machines in Europe. Here is the website for the Sinomach group: http://www.sinomach.com.cn/en/ I was wondering do you have any inside information on their plans, are they following the footsteps of Sany and XCMG who have invested heavily on R&D? They seem to have deep pockets as they are goverment owned?
The tin foil hat wearing Alex Jones and the Infowars website is hardly what I would call a reputable news source, I wouldn't put much stock in anything on that site.:cool2
heh sorry, didn't check the source well enough . Would this be better: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/12/31/1472023/chinese-company-eyes-boise.html
My experience with Liugong hasn't been very gracious... Working for a sewer and watermain operation for the last 3 years for a company called Niran. They were approached by Liugong with some equipment for testing (loan) purposes. We received two Wheel loaders (not sure the model numbers but roughly equivalent to a 950) and one Rubber tire backhoe. When the RTB was unloaded one of our operators quickly jumped in to check out the features and the first thing we noted was the back window wiper... He turned it on and it didnt even cover 1/8th of the total back window surface... I wish I could explain just how ridiculous it looked almost like it was there as a joke and never meant to be used. We immeadiately started laughing and making jokes based on the fact if they cant install a wiper/wiper motor correctly what would that would tell for the rest of the machine. Beyond the faulty rear wiper I noted right off the bat how "thin and wimpy" looking the overall casting of the chassis were (more to come on that). Someone else mentioned in this thread about the poor metallurgy coming out of china and this is a MAJOR problem and he is absolutely right.... On to the wheel loaders.... the first two we received stuck in gear within the first 14 hours of operation. They had to replace both and about a week later under LIGHT load operation (literally lifting a bucket of dry dirt) the boom actually snapped in half (see the poor metalurgy post) I had taken pictures but unfortunately the phone is no longer working to post them up. Bottom line the problems I saw with these machines were many and the benefits beyond being extremely cheap were few. I would say you get what you pay for and personally I would never buy one of these TOYS. You may save money on the intial purchase but after a week or two you will be extremely disapointed. My two cents.
Thanks for this information. I've got no experience on Liugong, I've only seen those at few fairs and I believe their motor graders are similar to old models of XCMG. We've never experienced any problems in metal parts of these graders, I believe I posted some material certificate from XCMG few pages back.
XCMG motor grader is better than Liugong one in my mind
I don't post much on here but on this subject I have an opinion. The first thing I will say here is the only reason we bought a Chinese built loader is that it was cheap, I did have some reservations about the build quality and on some areas that has been proven, the main one being some electrical components leave a a bit to be desired. The things we have not had problems with are the steel, the powertrain and ant the hydraulics have performed as expected too. A friend of mine has a Luigong wheel loader and he is in the same boat, it's working fine. It should be said though that we are farmers and are not doing anywhere near the sorts of hours that an earthmoving contractor would do. The type of work we do is for the most part easy but there has been times when what we do is tough on things. After saying all that though, it is obvious to me that these types of machines would in no way stack up against a cat or whatever other big name brand you care to mention, but for what we do they are a cheap loader that comes with a warranty and seems to work pretty well. steve
XCMG machine is good. :thumbsup
China's machinery products. Serving the World
oh god why do we get so many chinese on here like this bloody hell!! can we just lock threads like this as I can only see these coming to a yelling match.
After reading some of these post I see some people for and some against Asian equipment. I have been repairing machines for thirty five years, and what I have found is that when a new product comes in to the North American market it is usauly below standard.The companies that adapt, such as Hitachi,komatsu toyota ,and so on, survive. Others that do not fail in our market.I remember the first excavators , they where big and clumsy compared to todays machines. I guess what I am trying to say is that no mater how much we dislike change, those companies will to come here and adapt will do one of two things. They will become a world competitor, or they will fail. North American operators excell in get and adapting machinery to its full potential, and the foriegn manufactures relize this. That is why they all want their product here.
XCMG in Chile offered me a job position with them. Went to see the workshop and of course machines. Some have Cummins (from China) engines, ZF transmissions and Meritor axles, but those depend on work range. For heavier and harder they use the already mentioned items and for not so heavy job they use all chinese. BTW hydraulics are Kawasaki. I saw one wheel loader (in size like CAT 970) with 10.000 hrs. All chinese and it looked good. Now the type of work was not so heavy. Said to me bulldozer were bad, they wont sell them here. They are really ugly and look like they came in a time machine from 1945. Backhoes are not good also, not as bad as bulldozer, but they wont try them. So basically they are trying to sell cranes, excavatos and wheel loaders. About spare parts the problem from my point of view is not availability, it is if you get the right one. Now if you need engine overhaul, with same price you get the new chinese engine. Also with spiders, you get cardan/spider. The problem down here is that Finning and Komatsu are all focused with the mining area in the north part of the country, so small/middle size customers are not a priority and that's why Hyundai and Doosan are getting in the market. For a small.medium size guy, these machines might work (price I mean). They use them 3-4 years and get new ones (sometimes in some areas customer force you to have machines from a certain period, like 2010 and up). Now my doubts are if you take them to work with rock or hydr. hammer, don't know how long will resist
My company carries Liugong, and I can say that when they first entered the american marker they were still building to ROW (rest of the world) standards. Now though they are building on par with the big guys. They built a giant new facility with the sole purpose of building loaders to American standards. We have had zero frame failures and have seen no metallurgical issues. They also come standard with a 3year 3000hour bumper to bumper. Another thing Liugong has going for it is that it invested heavily in American talent, with their american division ran by Americans, and ones with 20-30 years with companies like Cat, Case, and Komatsu. These guys take feed back seriously too, for example when they sent the first excavator over to show us, its paint was so so. We told them and every unit since then was perfect. They are running Cummins engines, zf trans, trusted and true components. We also do rentals, and have had about a dozen units on rent long term in some pretty tough operations and have had no failures other than a couple loose nuts on a console. With the quality I see now and the prices they are offering i see Liugong dominating the wheeloader market in the next five years.
B.S. B.S. B.S. and have paper work and emails to prove it. no support no warranty on parts (350HR hyd pump) I got told by factory reps in Houston TX its running fine on youtube we do not see a problem with it ...well I guess you get what you pay for low pressure hoses just because it says ZF,cummins,parker it's not the same been there tried to cross it.live and learn
We have never had any problems with Liugong owning up to warranty issues of course we havent had many, they bend over backwards for us, we are also their biggest dealer in north america though. I dont know who you dealt with but if you purchase from us we would send a mechanic to you and fix anything that might go wrong. If you say it is broke we come out and look, and if it is we fix it period. I can also say that all hoses are high pressure hoses made by Alfagomma in Italy, and they have been making high pressure hoses for 25 years. They are the same Cummins, you can go to any cummins dealer and get parts.
ALso what does youtube have to do with it? did you take a video of the machine?
Chinese products are good for about one year max and are mostly garbage.
that my point what does a youtube video have to do with standing behind a main hyd pump failing with 350 hrs on it
Firstly mate i just want to say is that Alfagomma if them Sany machines are getting made in china or shipping the parts to the States and putting them together there then all your Alfagomma is made in china not Italy that is why we use Eaton Aero Quip on our machines as all Alfagomma hoses now in china are manufactured here Eaton is not they are made all over the joint Parker is the same only some of there very small low pressure stuff is made in china and an easy way to tell with parker if it is made in china is see if they have put there name on it. Well if they aren't they say made in Italy on them. that my point what does a youtube video have to do with standing behind a main hyd pump failing with 350 hrs on it That is strange, if you don't mind I would like to see the emails they sent you.
Trevor Wrench i 2nd that i would like to see the emails from LuiGong showing that they are not backing it up or anything. The only way i could see this happening and only Maybe ! is that he imported the machine from china himself from a trading company or something like that. Also mate the Alfagomma hoses here in china have made in italy on them also some of them anyways and they are allowed to do that in china because of some agreement they have with the imports beauro here in china but I guess you never know they might be importing it but it makes little sense to me unless Alfagomma has become very chinese in making 2 levels of product 1 level for domestic use and 1 level for export? But all i know is that we do not use them as all the stuff they have tryed to sell to us has been made in china and we do not have faith in the brand compared to others such as Eaton or Parker. But I do know that some SEM and XCMG and XGMA loaders there base models use the hose from Alfagomma along with some local brands.
Looking over our new 835 loaders they seem to be half and half. Larger hoses Are alfagomma while the smaller hoses inside the machine are Parker and most of the valves and componets are also Parker. We havent had any hose problem on ours here in the states except that they use DIN fittings on many of the hoses. It isnt bad, it is just less common here and when a mechanic is on the road and doesnt have the right fitting he has to go to a hyrdaulic hose shop to get one. As for the guy that mentiond that it might say zf, parker, cummins, it isnt the same. I talked to our Cummins rep, he told me that they have had manufactring in china for 20 years and today a large amount of Cummins comes out of China and that it is all the same. They build different tiers for different countries but it is not cost effective for them to build multiple grades of engines with multiple different parts. So if you get a 6.7 cummins tier3 its the same across the board.
I have find a video from a chinese type grader, PY9130: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPvYjGhRtYk