I've lined up some demos, but just like test driving a new car, a few minutes in the seat isn't going to tell you everything. I'd welcome any thoughts about choosing between the following. I will be using the machine for heavy farm work, land clearing, light grading, and some logging. Right now looking at getting a heavy bucket, some type of log /brush grapple, and a Marshall tree saw (or something similar). I can see a mulching head as being a possibility in the near future. Cat 299D XHP- Got to love Cat, but a dealer quote is never a happy event... Tak TL12- It looks like a no-nonsense horse Terex PT 100G- Looks awesome on paper... but I read a lot of negative comments Bobcat 870- You can't not throw in a Bobcat. Their advantage videos convinced me of one thing, they are great at marketing to people who don't know any better... Sort of scary. possibly a Deere 333D or Kubota SVL90 but they are not high on the list. I'm looking forward to hearing others thoughts on how these stack up. Thanks for reading.
I ran the Bobcat t870 and the power was good but the thing is huge. It is 1.5ft longer than most ctl and 1ft wider, no big deal till you try to fit betwen trees or have to get a bigger deck over trailer. I thought about looking at the Terex but the closest dealer was in Kansas City, 4hrs away.
I would take a spin in a Case TR320. I like mine. They offer an enhanced high flow option that ups the pressure of over the conventional high flow package. Good luck.
Cat all the way!!!...... If money is no object.
Truer words were never spoken...lol. I used to work for Cat and I have a lot of respect for their equipment, but MAN that yellow paint sure is expensive....
i have demoed a cat 279. i was not impressed at all. the front suspension is a total waste if you are loading trucks. i could get a foot of movment of the bucket going over the side of the truck due to the suspension. the other big problem i seen was that the cat was light on the rear of the machine when loading truck. grading was a little different because you could not feel all the bumps and low spots. working for a small paving company i spend about half my time in a T300 grading and loading trucks.
Thanks! Those are good points. I'm going to work that into the demo to get a feel for what you are talking about.
the one thing that i did not get to do on the demo was load it and unload it( driving forward not backing on) off the equipment trailer without a bucket or attachment. i was in to big of a hurry to get jobs done. with the T300 i have no problem doing that. that is important to me because when preping driveways i do not always have the room to grab buckets off the side of the trailer. the best part of the demo was the cold planner that they brought for us to try out there high flow. no one ever set it up right, the depth indicators where never adjusted. lol
We rented a t-300 for a couple of days last year. That machine will beat your brains out! That is the roughest riding, controlling machine i have ever ran and the controls were so stiff compared to the Cat or Case machines. I just was not impressed. Not that they are bad machines overall, but i think there are way better options out there. At least as far as operator fatigue and productivity is concerned. I guess if you are purchasing to put in a fleet where you personally never had to run the machine it would be fine, but for me these things are deal breakers.
oh i will agree about the controls and ride. just wait to you put about 3000 lbs on the front. before demoing the cat this year it was hard to get some one to demo us a a clt with high flow. the biggest reasone we have a bobcat is dealer support. i will never complain about the dealer support. between getting me the right parts i need to getting a replacemnet machine when the main drive belt blows up. all i can say is put your demo on your day to day task. then only belive half of the sales guys b.s. and then figure out what kind of dealer support each one has
You've sure got the "salesman BS" part right...LMAO. Between the Bobcat "Advantage" unequal comparisons, the Cat guys swearing it's better just because it says "Cat", and the rest of the herd that are trying to keep up, my head is spinning. I've got to say, I am sort of leaning towards that Tak. It seems that you're not paying so much for a lot of bells and whistles that you won't be using. But it's all still up in the air.
I stand behind him all the way. Am Currently running a t-300 with 1600 hrs on it Been looking at John Deere because of service access with any John Deere dealership can work on machine and price fits my range Buddy of mine purchased a kubota. He really like its and use it for his business same thing as I do but he been in it longer and have all the attachment
they all have their advantages... i grew up on bobcat equipment and i'm a pretty hardcore bobcat guy but i've run a little bit of everything... cat, tak, john deere, case, etc... the tak is a beast and i always thought if you're looking for a machine to just push all day it's a good machine john deeres have come a long, long way... i used to HATE the old john deere skid steers, i ran a 319 CTL and it was great compared to the old machines but wow it had NO breakout/curl force and of course a rough ride like every non suspended machine (deal with it) not a big fan of the case equipment i've run, ran a ct440 didn't get enough time to come up with an opinion the thing about the CAT is it's a great machine in all the little things, and a crappy machine in all the BIG things; visibility, crap undercarriage designs (both the CTLs and the MTLs), i don't like how the enclosed attachment coupler gets totally jammed up with mud, etc. demo a bobcat
Where are you located in MO?
An hour south of STL.
Bobcat 870 75ish Tak 250 a little less than 68k. Tak TL12 74.5k Pretty much apples to apples and all with a toothed heavy bucket. Still waiting on Cat. I'm not buying a D11, I wonder if taking a long time to get me a quote is a good indication of the after the sale service I will receive with a CTL? The Tak guy is pushing the 250 since they have a couple left on hand. The TL12s are still in Atlanta. He is saying it's basically the same machine. The 12 needed more HP to compensate for what it loses with phase IV Clean Air. Dunno. Lining up some demos for this week but as of right now, I am really leaning towards the Tak line. They seem simple, durable, and tough. I was originally thinking about a mulcher for clearing brush and small trees off of overgrown pastures. I'm now thinking that the Marshall Tree Saw might be a better route. It's a little easier on the pocket book and not as destructive as a dozer would be. I'll probably need to figure out a good grapple for loading logs on the trailer.
I just walked out of Deere dealership. They said if I wanna run a mulching head they have a cooling kit and you can mulch all you want with a 333D Deere. I got a hell of a price a deal with all bells n whistle machine with 493 hrs on it. I'm goin with Deere bc of dealership are everywhere across the nation and made in USA. It said so on serial number plate
Congrats on your purchase. That 333D looks like a fine machine.
Haven't purchased it yet. I'm getting there. Maybe he ll lower price a little
I've owned Bobcats and currenty own a Takeuchi, over the years I've run just about all brands, they all have positives and negatives. I've put quit a few hundred hrs on a Deere 333D which is a beast also. If I was in the market for large CTL I would be looking at Deere 333D, Takeuchi 250, Bobcat T770. One thing you may want to look at is the Bobcat T770 vs T870 your only talking 7-8hp and couple hundred lbs ROC which I don't think you'll notice much difference and your talking a lower purchase price, probably better resale on the T770 and smaller machine with close to the same performance. Those Bobcat advantage videos aren't total BS, Bobcat machines are the easiest to service and maintain than Taki or Deere. The cooling system seems to be alot better on the Bobcat than Takeuchi, my Taki sucks in alot more dust in the engine compartment than my Bobcat did. Now the Takeuchi comparing my machine to my old Bobcat will blow it away. As you've said its a simple, tough, no frills or BS machine. I like the U/C and track record of the Taki alot better than most, plus alot easier to clean out than bobcat. Pilot control are all hydrualic compared to most other brands being E/H. The Deere is a animal and will push like no other, a few things on the 333D it seem to have alot of electrical problem, I'm not crazy about the arms but Deere's had that design for years and I've ran them for years and have never had or heard of any problems with the arms. I would encourage you to demo all 3 and make your own decision and look at dealer service to make your decision.
Thanks for the great advice and for taking the time to post. I'm thinking I'm going to get a demo set up with the 333D too. I was thinking the Tak would out push all of them JD included, maybe I'm wrong. I guess that's what demos are for. lol. I'm drawn to the simplicity of the Taks. I work in mining with a lot of hours on machines and a lot of abuse. It's always electrical problems when the hours start adding up. It's an easy thing in a mine, just radio the shop. Me on my own with an out of warranty machine is a different thing. You didn't mention the Cat machine....
Not at all impressed with the day to day serviceability of the Deere machines. You can't remove the engine panels without the loader arms in the up position. Not much logic in this. What if the machine won't start? How do you get into the engine compartment? Your daily maintenance items- filters, dipstick, water separator, air filters, etc. should easy to get at.
That's an excellent point to bring up. It's been my experience that if it isn't easy to get to, it often doesn't get done.
That's my primary point, and the panels really aren't that easy to get in and out and they rattle after the machine gets some real time on it. Its not that big of a deal, but unless the loader arms are up you end up getting grease all over your shirt when you reach around the back of the boom to pull out or reinsert the panels.
Not true. Panels are easily slid out the back with the boom all the way down. Dipstick is up top with all other fluid fills with the hood open. Access to major components is by far better than most.
I would argue that the term "easily" is subjective. How do you get to the starter or alternator if the machine won't start? Can you clean out the radiator/cooler effectively with the loader arms in the down position, tension belts, drain water separator, etc.? I'm also not a fan of the lift path because it has limited reach in most of the lift cycle and impact unloading flat bed trucks. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but these are my observations in operating and looking them over with my buddy who is a JD salesman. I do think they did a lot of nice things over their last series- improved the A/C, air ride seat option, improved their cooling (I think they might have had the industry's poorest), hydraulic fan, etc.
when you demo a bobcat try to get one with stick and foot controls, i wouldn't have a bobcat any other way, it's even more simple than the Tak. Also ask the dealer if they can get a pre-tier IV T770 still. I agree with dirthog try out the t770, the t870 is a very specialized machine not many people need the extra size and weight. Will you ever be loading trucks?
When it comes to digging in the dirt, this total personal prefernce. Where te bobcat sinces is attachments. Bobcat has made attachments a main focus and there is very little additional equipment that needs to be added. 99% of attachments, the most that has to be added is the 7 pin cable, the electronics are already on the machine. The cooling is designed for high demands, nothing has to be added. The forrestry cutter is the only attachment that require a package which 90% added guards. We recently demoed a S850 against pretty much every other large skidsteer for a asphalt company. This machine runs a highflow planner all day. Per the operater, the bobcat was hands down the winner. The big cat was a close second, but failed because it's hydraulic would overheat every 15 minutes. The bobcat never did. That said, I don't want to brag the bobcat up as the hands down best machine. Try them all and the one you like is the one you buy. The attachment capabilites of the bobcat is the top feature of the machines
@928G Boy. Simple is what I like. After growing up with POS cable dozers and their "controls", any of these new machines would spoil a person. Stick/foot sounds like a good idea. I'm liking what I see on the 770 specs. I originally just compared the bigger machines from the major players since I figured I would end up using it like a little dozer half the time but when I look at the 770, I actually like it's specs a bit better. Were there a lot of changes going into tier IV? No, less than 10% truck loading. Thanks for your thoughts.
Just heard from Cat. 299D approx. 71k, 299D XHP about 78k. I think I'm going with a Marshall Tree Saw over the mulcher. So I won't need hi-flo any longer. That's a possible saver but it's a few days till I get to play with the tree saw so not confirmed yet. Things just got more complicated. lol.
TE=labradorguy;378350]I've lined up some demos, but just like test driving a new car, a few minutes in the seat isn't going to tell you everything. I'd welcome any thoughts about choosing between the following. I will be using the machine for heavy farm work, land clearing, light grading, and some logging. Right now looking at getting a heavy bucket, some type of log /brush grapple, and a Marshall tree saw (or something similar). I can see a mulching head as being a possibility in the near future. ive run equipment for 50 years.for skidsteer or loader get a jcb because of sidedoor entrance,you can always get out the door.ive had d-8 cats for years but for a small machine ive got a case 420 skidsteer with add-on tracks from right track from edmonton.compare $4000.00 to an extra 20 to$30000.00 extra on a new machine.levelled out about 500 truckloads in winter mud and ice and this spring to clean out my fish pond.saved $50000.00 by doing a lot myself.tracks are low maintainence,fully repairable,will work in mud where tires wont and have 3 to 5 times the traction.im retired but i dont mind helping not to make the mistkes i did buying the wrong equipment Cat 299D XHP- Got to love Cat, but a dealer quote is never a happy event... Tak TL12- It looks like a no-nonsense horse Terex PT 100G- Looks awesome on paper... but I read a lot of negative comments Bobcat 870- You can't not throw in a Bobcat. Their advantage videos convinced me of one thing, they are great at marketing to people who don't know any better... Sort of scary. possibly a Deere 333D or Kubota SVL90 but they are not high on the list. I'm looking forward to hearing others thoughts on how these stack up. Thanks for reading.[/QUOTE]
bobcatdan i was just wondering what kind of cold mill were you running and what was the width of the mill?
check for tipping I'm not familiar with the machines you listed,but I would suggest that you test the machines you arelooking at on different levels of Terrain. I owned a very old international backhoe /frontloader for years and now have a bobcat 753. The bobcat still scares me when going up steep inclines (you have to go backwards) and when I have to be slanted sidewise. It increases my prayer life! I just keep praying that I wont tip over. Id get myself in some precarious situations with the international but it still took more to get to tipping. My brother tipped our family backhoe so any mschine can tip. That said, the bobcat has some advantages. Because I can see the bucket and can easily gauge how effective my efforts are I find the bobcat bucket more useful than the bucket I had on the international even though the international bucket was much larger and the machine more powerful. It's small size makes it easier to do some jobs and i find myself tackling places i couldnt touch with the larger machine. I cant see pulling tree stumps with the bobcat.nor could I pull up the boulders I did with the backhoe. If you plan on using your machine logging be prepared for mud and getting stuck. With the backhoe you can usually grab a boulder or tree and pull yourself out.with the bobcat they have tracks you can put over your wheels like you do with chains. I have some but haven't. Had the opportunity to try them out. Good luck
Tons of changes going into tier IV, way more complexity. Pre-tier IV T770 engines had a fully mechanical injection system like every diesel bobcat before it, now Bobcat and the rest of the manufacturers are being forced into running electronic common rail injection and DPF filters on anything over 75hp. The new wiring harness is a scary looking thing. http://www.bobcat.com/loaders/tier4/technologies I was wondering if you were loading trucks because if you were, a vertical path machine like the T770 would really outshine vs. the Tak.
These new diesels are scary things. I don't know as much as I should about the diesels in the CTLs, but I know about trucks. I've not had a good Ford diesel since the 7.3L. The 6.0L injectors were a joke, the 6.4 and 6.7's are fuel hogs, plus those cleaning modes suck. I'm guessing the the CTL engines are probably about the same. I don't get it. We have to put up with all this crap on our engines, but the Chinese get to belch whatever crap they want to into the atmosphere...
Just thought I'd throw this out there into the Tier 4 discussion.....All JCB CTL's with the T4i compliant JCB Ecomax engine are compliant without the use of DPF or SCR. Electronic controlled engine with hi-tech combustion technology along with EGR. No after-treatment required from the largest displacement engine in a CTL (as compared to the "big 3").