OK-In the interest of fairness to my GF,I'll throw this out there---I was just installing the last row of Tri-galleys[4'x8'x18''H concrete drywells for septic leaching] in my client's back yard last week.At the excavation limit on 1 side,I come across an old but still strong well built block wall,app.20' long,running perfectly parallel to my layed out excavation-[1 galley was already installed-2 more to go].So,the woman of the house comes out,sees it and proclaims ''Oh--that's where my old swimming pool is.'' Sooooooo---I ask her if she knew the pool was there.Yup,she says,she even saw it 2 years ago when she bought the house and her GC must have buried it during the massive construction work she had done.So I'm wondering why she never told me about it.I tell my GF a day later about this and tell her it's only common sense for a homeowner to tell an excavator anything and everything about what they know is buried in one's yard before a backhoe is unleashed.She completely disagrees-says unless you're in the biz,how would one know.MAJOR arguement goes down--day is ruined. Thoughts--is it me or what? I'd like to think I'm right here.
One question--from here on out, will you be asking the homeowner beforehand if there's anything out there you should know about? If you answer yes, then it argues that you've learned a lesson about how homeowners aren't guaranteed to think about the nuances of the excavation biz. As the professional, that's one of the bases you need to cover to cover your own ass. Which kinda makes the GF right. Sorry.
No digger,I simply forgot to mention that I did indeed ask the homeowner about anything she knew about in her backyard,especially since I was coming into a second fiddle stuation where the GC who was also poorly imitating an excavating contractor was thrown off the job and rightfully so.This isn't my first rodeo there partner.I've been in the excavating biz for 36 years now--maybe you didn't know that.I'm always asking that question and always calling Dig Safely.The homeowner told me nothing of the pool beforehand.
If you asked and she neglected to tell you then unless it causes you an issue its a mute point. If siad buried object causes delay or extra expense to you the contractor it is up to the home owner to incur the extra cost. Only if you have had it staded in the contract witch the home owner has put pen to paper on. Otherwise it`s word of mouth and most time`s it`s just a fight. I don`t see why you would cause a fight over this with your GF tho Poop happens home owners wont always tell you what you need to know . You maybe could have done more and filed for past excavating permits for the property that might have shown the pool in permit form.
Ok, that changes everything. Of course you're right. The only thing you did wrong was to think that you could win an arguement with your girlfriend (and still be happy at the end of the day.). BIG mistake. :cool2 So, the next question has to be, from here on out, will you be engaging your girlfriend in discussions about this subject? If you answer yes....
There should be something in the contract that covers "surprises" that would make arguing about this with your gf a moot point (sounds like you already have that covered). I'd drop the issue altogether and ask the gf why she's really mad at you. :beatsme
i wasn't looking here for guidance on excavating procedures 101.I was simply asking for opinions regarding the arguement with my GF.But for what it's worth,that pool was built in the 50's,way before the village I was working in even had a building dep't.
when hell freezes over
Because she feels her opinion doesn't count.I'd like to think I'm a fair guy but in my mind here,this is a COMPLETE no-brainer--anyone who foolishly for whatever reason hides some known fact about any kind of buried service,item,structure,body,whatever,that is buried in one's yard where a rig will be digging is either hiding something or is a fool for not giving full disclosure.Especially since I asked up front.If that wall of the pool was over just 1 more foot,I would have had to abandon my layout which I already had 3 hours into and charged them for the extra work.But that's not the point here-it's simply common sense---that's why men are from Mars and Women are from some strange planet.My head hurts from banging it on hard objects these last few days. I'll stop ranting now.
Ahh grasshopper...and you have once again realised, that even when your right...GF or wife is always right. :cool2
Right Atco.This is priceless.She just texted me to come down stairs to watch One flew over the Cuckoo's Nest with Jack Nickelson. :BangheadCan't make this stuff up. Later.
I'd agree with atco on this one if your thinking your going to win the arguemnt the key word there is "thinking" your going to win, give it up before she becomes an ex girl friend, smile and say, yes dear your right and next time I'll try to see it your way, it helps to smile as you say it.
I never take the homeowners word on anything, its always gotten me into trouble...ESPECIALLY with locating conduits....
Are you serious! bah ha ha ha. I expect to see your little green "logged on" light turn grey promptly.
Enough about the other half,if you asked the question and was given a resounding "no" then the home owner is responsible for any additional cost you incur in completing your scheme of works,however if they say "to the best of their knowledge " it a horse of a different colour................................................. "Common sense is not common practice"
Hey Turney443, If I understand you correctly, you were basically hoping for a little understanding and support from your GF about how this homeowner had made your job difficult by her nondisclosure. I myself feel that it adds insult to injury when you tell someone who you feel should be sympathetic about the injustices of your day and they immediately seem to see things purely from an opposing view to yours. I have been there and it drives me crazy. When you just want to vent a bit about a wrong doing and suddenly you seem to be fighting with your ally. Baz
The simplest way to avoid any of the problems is to have a work authorization order in which it states any additional problems unknown to the contractor are the responsibility of the home owner and he is responsible for paying, mine have that clause written right in them and once its signed I don't care what I find or how long it takes they are gonna pay the entire bill no questions asked and its a done deal I could care less what I was told or not told, its whatever it takes to get the job done and whatever supplies are needed and if its a bid job I still have that clause in it I just add on the additional costs and expect payment. I also have a cluse written in the contractor calculates the bill and since they've already agreed with that by signing it, theres really nothing to discuss, they agreed ahead of time to pay whatever I billed, the longer it takes and the more complicated it gets the more goes into my back pocket. I don't look at it as aggrivating I look at it as dollars that are flowing my way. As for common sense, I like Stock's slogan of Common sense is not common practice, how true that is.
"the longer it takes and the more complicated it gets the more goes into my back pocket. I don't look at it as aggravating I look at it as dollars that are flowing my way." I agree with what your are saying, but it can still be frustrating when even though the client is paying, after you have discussed with the client that he is happy with your excavation size, prior to trimming up, and he then turns around after you have finished, left the excavation pristine, and just managed to get your machine out of a difficult spot,while he watched your every move only to then say, "can you just make it a bit bigger".:guns Yeah you get paid more, but at that point I would rather walk away than earn a few extra dollars and a headache.(although the customer is always right, so you bite the bullet) I usually need to vent after these experiences. Hopefully my wife understands.:crying Baz
Oh ok well if thats all we can do in this thread. Maybe its just her time of the month and she hates all men and everything you say Just like mine.
Baz, I'm one up on you guys, my wife works with me and I send her to deal with the owner while I make it all work, she's the one who's dealing with them while I'm dealing with the job frustration and at the end of the day we go home and just say, let it go and tomorrows another day and start again, she's the one telling me the customers always right and give them what they want no matter how impossible it is, and yes the part of it being done and then they chaange thier mind, it kills me everytime but you do any add on's they want and just smile knowing its costing them a lot more money and most times makes no sense at all. My wifes the one tellling me its job security, mellow out and take a deep breath, just do it because its what we do, and move on. Shes figured up one time what all these rediculous add ons and oversights on the owners part ended up making us one year and after I saw the dollars involved from that day forward I've never looked at it the same way, it puts it in a whole different perspective than I'd ever seen before so from that day on the jobs never done until the owner gives the deciding factor that he's happy and we're moved out. I always got into the mind set of the task at hand and she persuaded me into thinking the entire jobsite at hand and not just focus on the perticular task and thats the only way I could stomach undoing all I'd just done to add something here or there and then redo it again, sounds stupid I know but its the only way I've found from going crazy.
You haven't been reading correctly.My ONLY point here was about my other half.PERIOD.
BINGO---Give that Aussie a cold Fosters!!!!!!!!! My GF is an English teacher who is brutally way too honest,NEVER,ever,can just flow with the punches and BS a little.Thanks,baz
The home owner is responsible for everything that is on their property. Any hidden suprises that crop up are on the owner. If it is a fixed bid that comes under the heading "Change Order". I have learned to make sure that the customer Knows that before I started.
No cummins--not at all with mine---just too honest for her own good sometimes.I think ALL women while in HS need to take the chapter in HOME EC on'' how to stroke men's egos.''