Hello newby here. I’ve been searching to see if there is an adapter to use di injectors in the 3204 pc head. I bought a spare engine to rebuild for my D3B and it uses pc injectors. I would like to either one buy adapters or make them myself. I saw some mention of Cat having the adapters but I can’t locate any. Second question could I just buy a 3208 di head and go that route. I am going to use my injecors and pump from my current di engine. Thoughts? I have almost 50 years of engine machining and building experience, modding things doesn’t scare me.
Do you have any serial numbers to reference? Those in the know might be able to help.
Pistons are going to be different for sure.
Hum… i do not have much exp with CAT IDI Versus DI low pressure, but for instance in MB engines a prechamber engine is a totally different concept… despite this brand also used same name for the diff engine… “marketing maybe” Visible things in it like , combustion chamber, pistons, rods, piston cooling, injectors, injector pump … and the not visible ones… most important is C/R as a IDI need at lest 20/1 to be functional a DI works at low as 15/1. Injector pump time and duration, IDI injection curve is way diff. The above listed differences are to be expected, which can be solved , but u also need to consider the cost and availability of this parts. As the 3304 DI is a cut from the 3306 DI which is probably the most iconic CAT engine in earth movers, and latest 3304’s grew up to 220hp with almost double power a D3 frame handles. good luck with your endeavor.
Sorry guys I mixed up things… between 3204 and 3304, Nevertheless most of the diff between IDI and DI still applies.
The eng number 3204 PC 45V12388 4N169
Why do you need another engine, why not just rebuild the engine you have?
2 reasons. We use this a lot like everyday. I don’t want to be down that long. Number 2 I’m getting old and I want a good spare engine that the others can just drop it in when the time comes. Looking at the location of the threads for the pc I think it might be out of position relative to the chamber to just adapt it for di. So I’m going to buy the correct head and go that route. Ill rebuild and sell this pc head it looks to be in great condition. Any input on how much compression I can use. Im happy with it as is it a little more couldn’t hurt. Any ideas as to the differences in the 60 hp vs the 85 na engines?
I’m just about finished with my engine. There were quite a few differences. The head and pistons being the most obvious. I used the head and rocker arms from the DI engine and bought another DI head for the spare. The cams were also different so I reused the cam from the DI engine. I also used the DI injector pump. I used 3 ring pistons instead of the original 2 ring design. That had to be a really bad idea from the get go. The PC engine had straight rods where the DI engine had tapered, this meaning the rods are tapered on the pin end. This results in the rod and bushing be very narrow at the top. The bushings are worn out in the DI rods with the tapered ends. I’m going to look for some more straight rods for the spare engine. I’ve searched to try and find out why manufacturers went to the tapered design. I think it’s so they could make the piston stronger for all of the turbos being used. A friend just blew up a Cummins in his motor home due to the bushings failing and letting go of the rod. The blocks used a different width thrust bearing but I had both so that wasn’t a problem. There was a small difference where the injector pump oils and returns oil to the pan, I was able to work around that. They are both 45V engines but many differences so I wouldn’t suggest doing this unless you have a good idea of the necessary changes. Oh the timing cover and bell housings used smaller bolts on the early engine. I had the parts for this.
Picked up the track chains today. They’ve been sitting at the truck line here in town for 13 days that’s close enough to 2 weeks for me. They’ve had every excuse in the world but they were there all of the time. I finished the engine and it’s ready to drop back in. Time to get busy. I’ve been using this for 16 months, hard labor. I noticed the fuel line from the tank is 1/4”. Where the rubber line attaches to the hard line going to the injector pump it’s even smaller, 1/4” brass fitting with maybe a 3/16 hole. Just seems small to me.
Lots of paint to remove on those new rails. Best to tighten the pads with a torque turn method. That's the best to ensure they stay tight. If any of the old pads are loose they might not stay tight on the new rails.
Well that was a timely response. I wouldn’t have cleaned the paint off, just slapped the pads on and tightened them. Thanks
Always clean off paint on pad-to-rail joints and GET before installation. You will never keep the hardware tight otherwise. Dip the thread end of the shoe bolts in engine oil and then let them drain before installing. Tighten the 4 bolts on each shoe in a diagonal fashion to 65 ± 15 lb ft then turn them an additional 120°. Master link bolts chase the threads in the master shoe with a tap first, apply copper anti-seize to the bolt threads, then tighten in the same way as the track shoes but after torquing turn them an additional 180°.
Clean the paint off the alligator master links too and also make sure the pads are really clean before bolting them on, both the bottom and under the bolts. Easiest way to do torque turn is after initial torque use a paint marker and mark pad then turn the bolt the number of flats (on the head) to reach the required degree of turn. Each flat is 60 deg's. When I got new rails and pads I paid a couple hundred bucks extra to have the pads bolted on in the track press. It saves a lot of hassle torquing and marking every bolt.
What is GET?
Ground Engaging Tools. Cutting edges, balde end bits, etc.
Hey Nige, why copper anti seize and not nickel?
Not an expert but not sure it would matter. Some anti-sieze just says anti-sieze. You have to look closer to see the ingredients. I wasn't aware of using anti-sieze at the time I did my undercarriage but did put oil on the master link bolts. Hopefully won't have to split the tracks regardless. One of the original master links the threads stripped so I just welded it. Tracks were replaced less than 100 hours later.
Double post
Different compositions of anti seize (e.g. graphite, nickel, copper, moly) will result in different bolt tension for the same applied torque. In this case the P/N in the procedure for the anti-seize was for a copper-based product so that’s what I suggested.
Okay, so it's the lubricity of the material on initial torque that makes the difference, that makes sense. Personally I use nickel based on everything because I like to look like I just had wild sex with the tin man everytime I pick up the bottle.
I have seen some lubes for racing rod bolts so slick if you used on a stock rod bolt and tried to torque it to speck you’d just stretch the bolt into. It would never show enough resistance to get to torque spec. Mostly now race rods use length stretch measurement as the correct tightening specification.
I got it stabbed back in. Lining up the converter and flywheel was a little more difficult than I thought it would be. I tried a few times with the bolts but I didn’t like the way it was going. I didn’t want to ruin the transmission. I got it to where the lip was engaging the bell housing all of the way around, then I pulled it in with ratchet straps. It still lacked about 3/16” I slowly pulled it up with the 2 bolts opposite each other. When I got it pulled in I backed the bolts out to see if the converter was trying to push it back out. I did rotate the engine often as I pulled it in. If I ever did another one I would drill and tap the housing for an access hole so I could see and move the convert if necessary. I hope one of you more experienced ones will explain how you did this.
The official method is to remove the transmission and engine in one unit. As the engine and transmission are set on rubber mountings, it must be a whole lot easier to simply align 4 rubber mounts with bolts vertically through them, than trying to pull together an engine and converter/housing assembly inside the frame - especially with the total lack of working room that the D3 has in that area.
Always make sure with a dial indicator that you have end play on the crank after bolting anything to a flywheel. Have seen a few times before where people sucked a component in with bolts only to spin the thrust washers on the crank on start up, Then pull whole engine back down. If no end play pull back apart. Thats what my experience reminds me of. Hope she runs. Simon C
It is very beneficial to read the service manual for most things although there can be short cuts for other things. Adjusting the brakes is an example there is an easier way. A 931B the engine and transmission come out together and go back in the same way. You have to remove the transmission mounts to get everything out. The good thing is Cat has a detailed procedure for pulling the engine and trans. It would be very difficult to pull the engine (and trans.) without reading the Cat procedure. The 1 thing it doesn't mention that it probably should is to remove the oil filter because it's very easy to dent it. Even though it's easier on a dozer I wouldn't be surprised if Cat also says to remove and install the engine and trans. together.
I was typing when you posted this. As I mentioned it's likely the transmission mounts need to be completely removed in order to get the engine and trans. in and out. The shop that did my engine checked the screen on the trans. (3F 1R) and said it didn't have any black particles indicating it was likely in good condition. If you need new rubber mounts they are available aftermarket. I had one eaten up by diesel fuel. The shop left a fuel line slightly loose and a tiny leak over time destroyed the rubber. It was a good thing a cast oil pan was put on because I had to jack the engine up to change the rubber mount. The other engine and trans. mounts had to be loosened right off.
I learned that lesson when I was 16. I put an engine in my car and had the converter stacked on top of the front pump in the transmission. Fried it as soon as I cranked it up..
I have really bad ocd when it comes to taking things out and putting them back in. If I r&red the transmission there’s no way I wouldn’t rebuild it while it was out. It’s operating fine right now no issues. I’m always on the search for a spare that I can rebuild and have ready. I did the same with the engine. I have a fresh one in the machine and will rebuild the one I removed as soon as I have time, that will be some time though.
Is this D3 going to be working 24/7? Seems like a lot of money tied up in having a spare engine and possibly transmission. A machine used in a big mine makes more sense to have spare components. Your steering clutches and brakes aren't going to last as long as the rebuilt engine nor is the undercarriage. It generally takes years and years (decades) to put 10,000 or so hours on a D3. You don't see that many D3's with really high hours like your contemplating. A good rebuilt engine could go even longer than 10,000 hours. Your treating it likes it's going to put 20K hours on it in a few years.
I’d say it ran more than 30 hrs a week for the last 16 months. It has a ton of work to do in the next year as well. I got lucky and found a spare 3204 for $600, most people ask around $5k for a used one. I don’t have much in a rebuild since I do all of my machine work other than grinding the crank. I’ll have maybe $1200 in a rebuild and I could sell it pretty quick if I chose to which I won’t. With these aging out a spare engine will get harder to find. I don’t feel like I’ll ever have to change this one but my grandkids probably will. The undercarriage was good when we got it and we wore it out. I put steering clutches and brakes in it when I bought it. I would think many here would have looked at the pic of it torn down, no tracks, engine, or blade, and said he’ll never put that back together.
It never pays to have rebuilt major components, especially engines, sitting around for years, waiting to be installed - unless you expend some serious effort in protecting them against corrosion. I've seen fully reconditioned engines on minesites, rust up to the point where they locked up, after just a little over 2 years in storage. So you need to take major steps to protect bores and camshafts in particular, against corrosion, when in long-term storage. Oil drains off vertical surfaces after about 3-4 mths, and then the oil film is inadequate to protect against rust formation. Bores are especially susceptible to corrosion. The military are experts in long-term storage protection, so if you plan to go for long term storage of reconditioned engines, check out the techniques and products that the military use.
Doubt the machine will be around for your grand kids. New undercarriage will last maybe 4000 hours on a D3 in good ground conditions with a good operator. Engine could be good for 3 sets of undercarriage. The blade pivots and other components will likely need a lot of work before the engine is in need of replacing. Tying money up in a spare engine and possibly a trans. doesn't make much sense. A D3 isn't typically a 20,000 hour plus machine like a large dozer is.
The engine I just removed had been rebuilt. It is worn out at .040” oversize now. For whatever reason that is the largest oversize piston they offer. I’ll have to sleeve it back to standard size. I have everything to do this work and I enjoy it so it’s not an issue. My grandkids have been driving it and learning how to operate it so it’s not that far off. Getting any engine work done now is difficult and expensive if you can find anyone to do it. I’ve tried to get them interested in machine work but not much success in this area. If my grandfather had had machines when I was young you couldn’t have kept me out of the shop. As far as the blade I’ve replaced all of the bushings and pins. I’ll be bushing the u frame before I put it back on, it’s worn pretty bad. At this point I think we’ll have a fairly tight little D3B.
why anti seize instead of loctite? I’m putting the chains back on and I’m ready to start installing the hardware. Waiting on some of the bolts should be here Monday. Thanks for all of the input so far!
To supply the "friction reducing element" during the initial torquing operation. If that's not done then the final bolt tension will be off, even if the bolts are turned exactly 180 degrees after intial torquing. Also if Loctite was applied the master link bolts would be almost impossible to remove. If the threaded holes in the master link are correctly cleaned by being chased with a plug tap, then the paint is removed from everything as mentioned earlier, and the torque-turn process is carried out correctly using anti-seize the master link bolts will never come loose.
The holes in the new master links have a grease in them, not just a dab. But the threads do feel really nice. I was going to say really nice for Chinese but they didn’t come from China they are from Korea. I’ll clean them thoroughly and use copper anti seize. I knew there was a second question but I lost it earlier. How exact are the guides in each end of the track frame supposed to be? Mine appear to be quite worn, about 3/8” clearance on each side. I’m glad I asked this question and didn’t just shoot from the hip. I was thinking loctite would be better. But it might try to set up before I get the 180* if I were to torque them all before adding the 180*. Thanks
Post some photos illustrating the clearance you're talking about. Also remind me of the S/N of your tractor, makes it easier to find the info.
I’ll get them tomorrow. And with the weather nicer I’ll look better on the gear case for the real number, but it’s about 24y1750
Based on our previous discussion my dozer has 6 rollers, 3 fwd 1 rev, wide tracks. So you came up with 24y1500-1700 based on the serial number from the engine. Here’s a pic of the chain to front frame clearance. I’m trying to wrap my brain around the statement “the pin pulls the bus”. I’m guessing looking at the track the outer pin is pulling the next section???
OK, you were not thinking of the same locatkion I was. See below. There are shims #14 below the guide plate #15 on both sides. The gap "7" on the 2nd illustration should be a maximum of 1.5mm. Add or remove shims to achieve this.
Maybe the illustration below will help. This is looking down on the chain from above, for forward movement of the tractor the chain moves in the upward direction. The sprocket tooth bearing on bushing #10 on the top pin joint transfers the force to the Pin #11 the outer ends of which which are pressed into the two cranked links #4 & 5, and this "pulls the bus". At the same time the bushing #10 is pressed into the narrow end of the two cranked links #8 & 9 and is effectively pushing them.
I have already removed all of the shims (14). I’m going to have to modify the plates (15) to close that gap.
Plates #15 are likely to be heavily worn on the lower back side of each one. Building the back side of each plate back up again until it was flat would probably do the trick.
The tracks had paint on them.
If the paint is thin, paint crush when put to work may not pose a problem - particularly on a small tractor. But when you have a thick paint coating, and especially on larger and heavier machines, cleaning the mating surfaces between the shoe and the link, is crucial to prevent the shoe bolts coming loose later. When you work on rocky ground, and ripping, is the real test.
Don’t worry I’m paying attention when folks that know more speak. Nige said the master needs to be clean! Welder Dave and others said get the paint off of the chain. If I had just torn this down and seeing the paint still visible I would have put the pads right on.
When you install the chains just bear in mind that there is a "right" and a "wrong" way round to install them. There have been quite a few insances of folk posting photos of machine undercarriage where someone says in response "did you realize the chains are the wrong way round.?" The photo below is correct. Pins at the front of each link and the narrow end of the cranked links at the back.
Im installing the track nuts with the flat side towards the track. I was thinking the rounded side would allow the nut to spin rather than lock against the track. I read where I should be installing the rounded side towards the track. Is this correct? Is it a self locking feature? I have been line boring the u frame for repair bushings. I saved this for last on my maintenance list cause it’s a pain!
It seems backwards but I seem to recall Cat saying to put the rounded corners against the rail. Otherwise there's no real point of having the rounded corners in the 1st place. I'd guess less chance to come loose from a less than perfectly flat rail surface.
The rounded side of the nut is a perfectly neat fit against the rounded seat in the link and it simply ensures the nut is held tightly as you spin the bolt shank - and it then stays tight. The rounded corners improve the area of contact with the link. Cat have gone one better (2018), with another improved track shoe nut design, again. https://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2018/0105216.html
https://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2018/0105216.html Is this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^what you call justifying a large corporation paying you the big bucks? I wonder, does CAT pay by the word? Just thinking out loud. Now back to the regular scheduled programming.
LOL! This is what patent attorneys do, to earn their stellar salaries! You can't leave anything out, in case a patent-jumper finds a loophole! Benjamin Holt and Daniel Best fought themselves to a virtual standstill over patents, in the period of approximately 20 years, before they decided to merge to form Caterpillar Tractor Co in 1925! I once read where Ben Holt spent $475K on lawyers in just one year, to fight patent infringements! (about 1914, IIRC). To give you some idea of values, a new Model T Ford cost around $450 in that year!
You see none of you actually took the time to read the patent. Just as I thought when I was installing the nuts on this particular set up the flat goes to the track. The rounded side allows the nut to rotate. It needs to be installed with the flat side towards the track. I have no idea why they don’t just make both side s flat. My chains are flat and do not have any type of ball pocket that would increase clamping. U.S. Pat. No. 3,726,570 to Wetherill et al. discloses a track nut with specialized geometry. More specifically, the track nut has one end that is substantially circularly shaped and another end that is square shaped. This geometry fool proofs the assembly of the nut into pocket of the track link so that if the nut is reversed such that the circular portion is in the pocket, the nut will rotate with the bolt, preventing tightening of the bolted joint (see FIG. 3 of Wetherill et al). However, if the nut is properly installed in the pocket of the track link, the nut is held in place, allowing tightening of the bolted joint (see FIGS. 1 and 2 of Wetherill et al). This construction helps to ensure that when the nut is properly installed Thanks again OZ
Apologies for my error. It's been a long time since I last installed track shoe bolts, and I didn't physically check my tractor because it's 90kms away from me - and I was relying on my faulty memory! Some machines do use the rounded edges of the nuts against the track link. Thanks for the memory jog, and the correction!
double post
Despite how the nuts are placed tightening is the most important aspect. Proper torque of track bolts is of paramount importance. You can't just take an impact wrench to the bolts. If the bolts come lose they will likely never stay tight after being replaced. If too tight could snap. Torque turn is the best method but time consuming. I bought new pads because I had a lot of loose pads on the old rails. Pads were really good as far as having little wear but the holes were no longer round and the pads not perfectly flat anymore. It was worth it to me to pay a couple hundred bucks to have the new pads installed on the track press using a calibrated torque wrench and then turning an additional 1/3 turn ( if I recall). Different size track bolts will have different torque turn specs. It's as important as having having all mating surface clean and flat.
OZdozer I definitely was not correcting you. I was only pointing out what I learned from your link. But I did read about putting the rounded side against the track which seemed like a bad idea for my tracks hence my original question. I have not noticed any real wear on the mounting surface on the pads. I have seen a few with ovaled holes which I will bush back to the correct size before I install them. And I will follow the torque turn method. I’m in the short rows now, I expect it to be mostly finished this week. I did take a crow bar and check for movement at the ball on the blade. I have about 1/4” up and down movement. It’s not loose but it’s not what it should be either. I cut the cap about 18 months ago.
Ovaled holes on the pads indicate they have come loose and could be problematic even if bushed.
They’ve definitely been loose. I’ll bush them with what’s called a hat bushing. This style of bushing incorporates a made on washer that will restore the clamping surface and the bushing will restore the hole diameter. I made and installed a bunch of these on jumbo jet engine mount holes where corrosion had taken them out of limits. On aircraft you can’t just pull a repair out of your (thin air). It’s has to be from the manufacturers repair manual or an engineering approved procedure.
They obviously moved around a bit so may or may not be an issue. Hence why proper torque is so important.
I have another question. I was filling my final drives and noticed the oil was running out as fast as I was pouring it in where I had the sprockets off. 24y machine the seals are 5p9120 the metal part of the seal is 5p9121. When I had it apart they looked fine so I didn’t mess with them, but when I had the hubs clamped down 8n my mill to replace the sprockets I disturbed them and I guess caused the leaks. The original rubber o rings 5p9120 look great and I wanted to reuse them even having new ones in hand. But we decided to go with the new ones. I checked the metal seal faces against each other to make sure I hadn’t wrapped them. Everything looks good. My question is the way they are made they don’t just pop into place. I lubed them up cleaned everything thoroughly. Do I just let them set sticking out and let the pressure from installing the sprockets push them into place.
The mistake you made was lubing the Toric Rings before installation. Do a search for “Duo Cone Seal installation”. That should give you all the info you need. In case of any questions post back. EDIT: Try this thread - HeavyEquipmentForums
Before I realized you need a big puller to pull the sprockets I took the caps off the end of the sprockets. One side leaked maybe 3 tablespoons, at the most, of oil through the splines overnight. I didn't consider it too serious so put some RTV on the cap and put it back on. Without the sprockets on might be why the oil poured out as fast as you put it in. I could see duo-cone seals leak if lubed but not as fast as you poured oil in.
I watched several videos. I like this one best. I’m going to try this first, if that doesn’t work I’ll make a tool to press it in. But I’m pretty optimistic about this way. One was saying all of the machined area needs to be in very good condition. Well we all know a nearly 40 year old dozer ain’t in pristine condition. Making tools like that is one of the things I did on jumbo jets. I watched a Cat video and he popped it in with the tool and a rubber hammer. The last thing a want to do is bend the thin stainless ring.
Are you talking about pressing in the halves of the Duo-Cone Seal.? The seals on your machine are small enough for Willie's zip tie trick (thread linked above) to work quite easily. One thing not to do. Do NOT under any circumstances polish the ramps where the Toric Rings sit. They have to be rough in order to work correctly.
I cleaned the years of rust and dirt off with corse sandpaper. I’ll reclean everything and give it another go tomorrow.
Also you have to make sure the seals are square after each half is installed. Cat usually sends a go, no-go gauge and a wire adjusting hook with a new seal assembly and instructions for Duo-Cone seals although I haven’t bought seals for 20 years so maybe they don’t anymore
Not any more they don't.......... We were discussing this on another thread not long ago. Seal halves installed too far.? It wouldn't surprise me when the OP said earlier he had lubricated the Toric Rings "to aid installation". You'd be more likely to break the ring, or at least crack it. They are not stainless steel AFAIK, and tend to shatter very easily. That's why it's so important to install them correctly.
If nobody has mentioned it, on a good set of seals, the contact surface will be fairly narrow at or toward the outside edge.
Seems like the newer ones, well that might be an odd term as the newest ones I touched were in about 2014!, are formed steel where the earlier ones say back in the 1970's appeared to be cast material. I know those cast ones could have sharp edges on the OD of the sealing surface. I do recall the little go-no go red plastic gauges they supplied at on time, might even have one in a drawer in the tool box. Did more than a few of those from the 988A loaders up to the 769D haul trucks. Main thing I tried to do is clean off all oil from area the rubber ring touched. Also seem to recall using starting fluid or some other fast drying liquid to help get them in to place. Don't recall any leaking after assembly and did brake jobs on a few 988A's with the boom from a tire truck, the tier guy was good!
That would be an absolute do not do. Duo cone seals need to be set before assembly, never use the assembly to "press them in place". You need to install the duo cone seals in both halves of the assembly making sure they are perpendicular to the center line of the assembly all the way around and make sure the toric rings are not rolled or twisted. Make sure there is no gap where the rubber of the toric ring meets the lip in the assembly. And as others have stated, do not lubricate them with oil or grease. The only thing I do different is spray a light coat of silicone spray lube on them and let it dry. Silicone spray lube is a dry lubricant and helps with the friction when installing them without special tools.
After cleaning the bores I am bushing them. There’s too much rust to attempt to reuse them as is.
I see there are different bores for the seals. . I see no evidence that mine had a radius or tapered bore so I’m just sleeping them back straight as in the left image. I’m guessing the go no go gauge y’all mention is a u shape bracket that rests on each side on the seal and the wire is the no go part, close?
The surface(outer)that the toric rings bear against has to be tapered smaller as it gets deeper in order to put enough pressure on the seal ring to work
Got photos of the inner housing and the inner side of the sprocket ring.? According to the Parts Manual they look like the image below. TBH I've never seen a conventional Duo-Cone seal (of which this is one) where the housings for the Toric Rings did not have a ramp. Also please post photos of the wearing surface of the two steel rings so that we can see the size of the contact patch. It's actually a kind of L-shaped bracket with "steps" on one side. The end sits flat on the part in which the seal is installed and the steps are used to determine the height of the face of the steel ring above the component. The key is getting the face of the ring the same height around the whole 360-degree circumference. Different "steps" on the tool are used for different seal heights as per the application.
See the attachment for some more information on how Duo Cone seals work, installation, & operation. There is also some data on dimensions that might be useful.
It also has to be rough enough to allow the Toric Rings to grip.
Are the seals that hard to install especially for a 1st timer?
I would prefer to say that first you need to understand how these seals work, and once you understand that you will be in a position to know what’s required to install them. Go back to the 3rd post and read the thread I linked. It’s effectively a guide to installing them.
Installing the seals would be easy if the bore in the sprocket and the bore of in the hub (6s3192) on the final drive were in good shape. They are 40 years old and rusty. I didn’t want to disturb them when I initially had it apart because I knew there could be surprises when you start unlayering the onion. I did notice as I was machining the sprocket for a repair sleeve there was taper. I was thinking it was just how if eroded from the rusting. I still am thinking I have bushed it back to the smallest the tapered bore would be all of the way down so I should have good compression of the seal. I am going to measure how much compression I have between the metal faces of the seals and determine how I’ll proceed. The 6s3192 are cheap so that’s not an issue I just wish I had then on hand. I need to be working on dirt and not the dozer. I do understand now from discussing this especially with Nige how the seal works and why not to oil it.