Been watching some sales where cooked machines(fire damage) go for pennies as to sale. Many are what I would call superficial where hydraulic hoses eventually burned thru most fires starting in or around battery cables or electrical faults. I am cheap, I am also fairly poor and been a wrench so starting with a cooked machine replacing damaged skins/hoses/cables or other electrical does not bother me. Anyone else here do such work to revive old dead machines on the cheap?
I've done some small repairs like that. Like you I'm poor (5 kids lol) cheap and am not afraid to fix something. I've watched auctions and even seen some for sale by the owner. I would think the older less electronic machines would be a better candidate for our talents Junkyard
We have rebuilt a couple skid loaders that were burnt, that ruined the experience for me, if it has gotten anywhere near the engine or hydraulic pumps your just as well of sending it to the scrap yard. The never ending pump leaks and engine trouble because of melted plastic or aluminum blocking coolant passageways gets old real fast.
I tend to shy away from the smaller machines, I know all too well of the engine and subsystem plastic and aluminum concerns. I was thinking more on the lines of larger machines, D6 or equivalent or larger. More iron and steel than soft parts.
We rebuilt a large burnt hoe once. By the time it was done, it cost slightly less than what it was worth IIRC. Everything above the swing bearing was toast. It was stripped to the frame, frame was blasted and painted. Everything bolted to the frame was replaced. I mean EVERYTHING. Engine, pumps, hoses, panels, wiring etc. It was a massive job.
I would tend to think of those burnt units as parts machines, salvage what you can and scrap the rest, but I would base that on what each unit looks like and the damage..
My friend's 345BL cost $61,000.00 to replace all engine hydraulic lines and electrical looms. Cat dealer mechanic 1.5months included in the cost. Mistake he should have let machine burn to the ground, insurance would have footed the replacement cost. Cause of fire, muffler drain pipe breaks letting hot gases hit the hydraulic tubing!
Years back we had a 988A Cat at one of our plants where due to no one fixing the warning light/horn system operator drove off with the parking brake on. Yea, one would think the sluggishness would have clued him in, but the the un-repaired in that area might have caused the brake to be weak! Well oil leaks and driving off with brake applied conspired to cause some heat and fire. Don't have figures on cost to fix but seem to recall it was basically replace all hoses in that area of machine and the wiring, OH yea replaced the parking brake! Other than a lot of black nasty stuff to deal with was not too bad. Yes we did fix the warning system while in there! Like others have said it would be a different matter with something newer with all kinds of wiring and sensors to deal with and each machine would have to be inspected and judged on how intense the fire was and how cheap one can get it. Also would make a bit of difference if one was doing this for profit or to get a usable machine on the cheap for ones own use. Also how common of a machine it is, a D6 would probably be a better candidate than the same size machine by Fiat Allis or even Komatsu!
I can see both sides, get the worst cooked machine in error and it becomes a money pit but locate one not so destroyed may end up having a bidding war with the salvage companies for good parts they could sell. I am still in the debate mode internally but keeping eyes open as to what is out there.
You don't want to get stuck with a fraud case either. Say the hydraulic pump is going bad and they keep running it rather than fix it, after it blows up and contaminates the whole system sure would be a convenient time for an insured accident.
A good friend of mine 953B burned pretty good. Fire started in the front near the hydraulic and fuel tank. Insurance was going to total it and pay in the high 20K mark. He asked me what I would do which I said take the money and buy another machine. Well he decided he would fix the machine. $26K and 5 months later his machine was fixed. At that time he could've bought a nice 953B with cab and A/C for $25-30K, his is open ROPS. I found a few machines in Atlanta and told him "let's at least go look at them first", however he was hell bent on fixing his. His machine is not used daily but it's held up well so far for being roasted. Personally I would've took the check and bought another one. I don't want a machine that I depend on to make a living that has been burnt, YMMV.
At least he knew what it ran like when it ran. If you buy something not knowing when or how it ran, then fix it up to find it doesn't work because of something unrelated to the fire, then you'll really regret it.
No doubt Delmer. I advised my friend to not do it knowing the machine. There is no way I would take on a burnt machine I didn't know.
I would be leery of doing it. For the right machine, maybe, but it is easy to think you have the right machine, and the problems just keep growing. A friend of mine did a D-6R, and by the time he had it ready to use, he had spent enough to buy a good one, and plus he had a ton of time and effort tied up in it. Once you hit the electrical system, pull it ALL out and replace it. Same for hoses. Then you have to remember the seals that now leak, both internal where you can't see it, and the ones that make a mess. An old machine, maybe, but then again, an old machine can be bought pretty cheap running, and ready to use right now. There is very little upside, in my opinion.
Thanks all, believe will shy back from cooked units.
A couple months ago there was a JD650 advertised locally that had burned. I don't remember model but it was the year before all the electronics. Looked like it had burned from the radiator back to the dash. The guages were still in place though. If I remember right they were asking around 5k. Would a machine like this be a good candidate to be fixed or just a money pit?
A lot would depend on how intense the fire was, would need to check for lots of things. The biggest thing would depend on who was doing the work to fix. Someone with no experience paying a mechanic would surly loose their shirt. Where a guy who has worked on those very machines for the last 20 years, and was in no hurry, might see it as a bargain. Kind of like some of the snow blowers or walk behind lawn mowers I have out int the barn. There are four blowers and three mowers all in working condition. Most money I have put into any one of them might be $150.00 and some less than $10.00. If I was paying someone to repair them with a labor rate of $50 to $75 an hour most might have been better off in the scrap bin. Wife thinks I'm crazy for not just going out a buying say a new snowblower, but she has no problem spending hours playing solitaire on the computer while I'd rather be working on that old Ariens that will clean off the driveway.
KSH, I can relate!! Wife sits and sits watching TV, usually reruns of reruns that I know have been seen three or four times but she insists she has never seen! She hates when I can quote the next comments from the 'actors' where she becomes angry as to how I knew that. I could make a old hard mechanical machine 'better' but probably not more than just functional and perpetually in need in no way would I take on a electronic machine.
I would like to have someone with an old skid steer just parked in need of some work decide they wanted it out of their yard, say something like an 1840/1845 Case! Nice simple basic machine. Could do all kinds of odd jobs around the property with one of those!
Also know what you mean, I need a good barn/feedlot cleaning machine
I've bought parts off of used machines in the past with the idea of rebuilding and selling them. It works pretty well for heavy cast iron parts that didn't turn blue. Hydraulic pumps, swing and travel motors usually just need some lapping, bearings and seals and will work fine. As for the whole machine I wouldn't touch on if it got hot enough to melt the aluminum parts off the engine or burned out the cab to the point of blowing out all the glass. I don't think I'd ever touch a power shift transmission from a burned machine. Too many little parts to replace.
If the steel got too hot will weaken it, especially if it was doused with water while being at a high temp.
Another reason not touch burnt machines is Viton seals unless you want to loose limbs
On burnt machines. Knew a logger who found his log skidder had burned. Not badly enough to deflate/ ruin three tires. One tire was bad but not "wire on a rim". He bought it back from insurance and put it back together. Even though it went out without help from a fire department the castings all moved. Seals failed and cracks developed in strange places. He wouldn't pass on a problem, telling everyone it had burned. He advised against using anything from a burned machine. I've read in WNYF (NY City fire department training magazine) that cast iron losses 50% strength over 1100°f and it never gets it back. Don't know how valid that information is.
In another post, I was asking if I needed to replace a D5G undercarriage with all Cat components. I found a burnt D5G with what looks like an almost new off brand undercarriage under it. A undercarriage salesman guy told me he wouldn't buy it. He said the seals and plugs for the SALT tracks would be toast. Would experienced people in here agree with what he told me? I can get the undercarriage really cheap.
no you do not need to use Cat parts, but they do give a little better life. 1 ) are they salt tracks ? 2 ) how bad did the d5 burn ? 3 ) was it just the engine or the cab or were the tracks cooked too ? 4 ) how many hours do you run the machine ? salt rails will run quit a while with no oil in them, if cheap enough , buy them and run them to death and then buy a new under carriage .
1- They are salt tracks 2- Motor and cab. Doesn't look to me like it got on the tracks that much. All I have seen is photos. Will be there at 9am tomorrow getting the Sweeps off of it. 3- I'll attach a photo - tell me what you think. It looks like whoever owned it just put new rails on it and used the old pads. 4- I own a company that sells flooring online - WeShipFloors.com I just grade my own properties, so not much. I'm probably going to buy them. The segments look brand new to me. It got hot behind the tracks for sure.
If you buy and run them just keep an eye on them, maybe shoot each pin with an infrared thermometer after running it for awhile. Any warm or hot ones may have lost the oil. If you want to be darn sure take them to Cat and have them re-sealed. Then you know.
I think they'd be OK. It would have to be a pretty big and hot fire to got enough heat to take the seals out on the undercarriage. It looks like there's still wood or grass stuck in the rails. There's still paint right above where it did got hot. The undercarriage does look almost new except for a bolt missing from the sprocket segment.
Even the final drive looks as if it may have survived. There may be a bob or two in that.
I'd be signing the check and smiling all the way home!! Only thing new I would buy, split link bolts to reattach them.
did you get the rollers also? if your chains are as bad as you say the rollers are probably tired too
Tracks, Sweeps, Screens, segments, 2 upper rollers, 2 double flange rollers, 2 single flange rollers. The rest of the rollers were shot.
When you put the segments on your sprockets make sure they are squeaky clean, no paint on any mating surface and use new Cat bolts.
I'm going to sell the screens I bought. That burned D5G was an enclosed cab model. It's not as easy to install them on an open cab as I thought it would be. I have both sides and the rear - plus all hardware. New from CAT they are over 3k.