Recently purchased a 74hp CTL; 10,800lbs with an operating capacity of 2,600lbs. I've used many skid steers over the years but this is the first purchased, trying to figure out the cost of ownership. I recognize of course this depends on the application and rate of depreciation, but I'm sure most of you have a number in mind of what it costs per hour, something to base a rate off of. What are factors you include in this calculation? My first guesstimate before getting into it is roughly $50/hr, considering fuel, fluids, undercarriage, upkeep, depreciation, but no labor. Would love to hear your thoughts and wisdom! Thanks, -Josh
74hp at 10,800 lbs??? That Hp to weight ratio seems way off. What make and Model of machine is it? That will help quite a bit lol
I would agree with 50 per hour on a CTL, they are very costly to keep running especially in the under carriage area. I think they could be the most expensive piece of equipment I own to keep running .
Sounds like a Deere 323, Cat 279, Bobcat T650, Kubota SVL-75, etc, etc. The HP is correct with a rated load of 2600 lbs, but the gross weight is off.
Sound like a Volvo MCT125c, hp and capacity are both way under ratred. I've picked up a 5500# log and it pushes like a bull dozer. How you run them will make a big difference in operating cost as with any machine. If you are hard on them they will be hard on your checkbook. Back in the trucking business the ones that drove hard had their trucks parked in font of the garage a lot.
I can tell you one thing, if your going to operate it in aggregate, you better double your initial cost.
Mountainlake got it right; it's a MCT125C, though I'm not positive how that matters, something I'd like to see compared for all brands, from what your own experiences are. My plans for it first off will be snow removal given the upcoming season. Otherwise mostly just grading, backfilling, and whatever attachment I rent for the odd job like a trencher or mower. "how you run them will make a big difference ", okay, sounds about right, so tell me - how should I run it to make it last the longest? Thanks again, -Josh
Keep your undercarriage cleaned out (especially around the drive motors behind the sprockets). Make three-point turns, don't spin your tracks and keep them adjusted. A tad loose is better than too tight, especially in sand or any other abrasive material. Push material with the full length of the tracks on the ground to avoid wearing out the rear idlers. Flip up your cab and make sure no hoses are rubbing anywhere, and that includes any lying in the belly of the machine. You're better off sleeving anything you can get to before a problem surfaces. Use zipties on anything that needs it too. I also change my final drive oil every 200 hrs. and suggest going to a good synthetic at the first change. Those suckers are flippin' expensive!
The US Army Corps of Engineers published EP 1110-1-8 Construction Equipment Ownership and Operating Expense Schedule. It is a document that describes how to calculate owning and operating costs for all types of construction equipment. The document is tailored to regions of the US, but should give you a good starting point. While it won't just provide you an answer, it will provide the framework explaining what things must be evaluated to arrive at your costs. As others have stated, the operators actions have a huge impact on your actual costs... A lot of the document is an extensive list of reference tables for different pieces of equipment. The beginning of the document explains the basic principles and calculations. This will give you a baseline however you will need to adjust it based on your actual costs.
I think what is interesting on CTL's is the first 1000 hours are really in my experience pretty low cost, considering no flat repair perhaps even cheaper to run than are tires. However the next 1000 hours are when the "Piper is paid" so to speak. At just over a grand I have had to replace an idler and as JNB did, I need to start looking at tracks in the next couple hundred hours. I am religious about changing out that final drive oil. So if your buying new the costs are back loaded, if your buying used you may get to start paying for your privilege of running tracks immediately depending on hours and condition. I imagine that I will start going through more idlers and if I keep it long enough, the finals.
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Good post, really watch those turns, spinning them around in their own length will wear everything fast.
Though I haven't found the section yet for tracked skid steers (it will take me days to get through it), that resource is quite a wealth of information - thank you! As you said however, I will have to adjust it based on my costs, which as of yet I don't really know. Interesting perspective, kinda what I thought too when I was looking. Parts for these undercarriages are attrocious, as is the short life span. I bought machine with 350 hours and everything so far appears to be in good shape, I'm hoping that with a little bit of care I can extend the piper-paying period into perhaps 1,500hrs instead. I wondered about that, making 3-point turns vs making long sweeping curves? I figure if the ground is getting torn up, so is the undercarriage; no matter whether its scuffing or digging or rutting. That is a great idea about flipping the cab up to check any rubbing wires or hoses, not something I'd have considering doing until after something went wrong, so thank you. I see everyone is a bit shy on this one, I don't share much because I don't feel I have much to contribute, but I enjoy and learn a lot out of reading your posts. I havent seen anywhere yet where it has been discussed about track tread types, mine has the wavy bars, rather than the opposing "][" style, I felt this would offer less traction in mud, but a better versatility over all, especially in the winter and on turf. Thanks again, -Josh
So its going to cost you $50,000 to run that CTL for a 1,000 hrs. Fuel is going to account for roughly 20% of that $50k. so oil changes and other service work + any undercarriage work adds up to $40k a year? If you're not accounting for labor I don't see how it could be so high.
When you put it that way it sounds high, so help steer me right direction. I'd expect $15/hr fuel cost, undercarriage at $10/hr, oil&filters? Depreciation at..? misc parts for repairs(Break down or damage)? I'd say that closes in on $40-50/hr all said and done, depending on each machine and application.
I have a Kubota SVL90-2. Fuel, 4 gallons/hour, currently $2.1/gallon= $8.4/hr Depreciation, 3k hour life, $10k residual, $20/hr Fluids/Filters/Greasing, $1.5/hr Undercarriage, $8/hr Incidental damages, $5/hr. Total of $42.90/hr. My average fuel burn is less than 4gph. I'll sell before I get to 3k hours and it should be worth $20k then, hopefully more. $24k to get 3k hours. 3 sets of tracks is $9k, $3700 replaces all the rollers, $1400 buys 4 sprockets, and that still leaves nearly $10k for the 4 idlers and final drives. Incidentals happen. In nearly 250 hours I've broken the front glass and replaced it with lexan. The lexan has been replaced once and will be replaced again soon. The 3 pieces of lexan cost $200 leaving ~$1k in the oops category. But, I'll likely sell it before it gets 1k hours on it. At my current rate of usage 1k hours would be paid off plus 9 months. As work ebs and flows I change my equipment. I also have an equipment dealership (not Kubota though) which I run into good deals with (buying or selling). If the machine stays suitably busy until it gets paid for and there isn't a machine I want more, I would likely keep it. If someone makes a 140hp, 14klb+ CTL... I'd be hard pressed not to get a case of the wants. Another note, some work is harder on machines than others. Dirt work is easy on the machine by comparison to demolition and mowing/mulching for example are harder. Pushing up fires is tough on air filters. My hourly rate varies somewhat depending on what I'm doing. Demolition and mowing (Ground Shark) are both $50/hr higher than my base rate. Demolition is hard on the tracks and the paint, mowing is harder on the tracks plus the $11k attachment and its maintenance.
You've got to love a numbers guy. Thanks for the rundown. :thumbsup
Looks like it is pretty close to that $50/hr rate any which way you stack it.
I'm just starting my business. I've been doing a lot of research on operating cost. I'm going with a cat 236d closed cab. My figures came to $75/hr. I'm counting insurance and financing and all, unless I'm figuring wrong?
You don't count payment and depreciation together. Insurance is a good thing to figure in, but it's a fixed cost not hourly (same as the payment) and thus isn't part of the "operation" budget so to speak (it's in the overhead with the payment). I use the deprecation figure to see if I need to make an extra payment. For sake of easy math, say $20/hr in depreciation $1400/month payment. Again for easy math, say $100 of that is interest, $100 is insurance, leaving $1200 for principle. With $20/hr in depreciation and $1200/month in principle, you can put 60 hours per month on it. If you get busy and are putting 90 hours a month on it, you need to make an extra payment every couple months. On my machine, my average usage is way below what the principle covers on deprecation. In 17 months I've paid ~$17k of principle off and put ~239 hours on the loader. That's $71.13/hr... it may be cheaper to rent rather than own at these usage levels, depending on your business model. In 17 months I've paid enough principle to be at 850 hours, assuming the 3k hour life and $10k residual from above. I'm not an accountant by any means.... it just makes sense to me like this.
Agreed Indeed _ Really quite a brilliant breakdown there 'lumberjack' _ many seemingly basic and yet well thought out points, with GOOD numbers!! Much appreciated and well done!! :yup
Thanks.
Thanks lumberjack. I've considered renting, but in my area skid steers are used a lot and it starts getting hard to find one at the rental places. It just seemed logical to me just to buy. I have a good 1 ton truck and I have a dump trailer that serves for hauling the SS and for the job. The only payment I will have is the SS. Thanks for all your insight. This is the first time I've started my own business and all the help I can get is appreciated!
I've never really considered renting a skid/ctl, aside from once when I did back in high school. 2 day rental and we put 31 hours on it. But paying $71/hr in payments over the past 17 months is at or near my threshold for it being worth having around... you can always buy another if the need arises. When I get to thinking seriously about selling it seems a job pops up to earn it a reprieve. I also bought an Ashland Ground Hog for it to do some work on my own property if I get time while it's still dry enough. I bought my first CTL to do a large house pad project. I put 260 hours on that machine in under a year and traded it in for this one. By comparison, I traded in and bought a new Kubota excavator 5 months before this machine. It has around 640 hours on it and it would be my last machine to sell. In 21 months I've paid $25709.66 off on it which works out to $40.17/hr (0% interest). The machine regularly preforms work that brings in over well over $300 per machine hour. With my felling grapple saw, the hourly rate is $300/hr (although most work is done by bid).