I could sure use some help. Most of my work has always been in the woods, but recently we have been doing some work for a utilit/elec/fiber contractor. I’m good at the work, but I could use help to get more experience bidding the jobs quicker. I usually do good alright, but am slow to figure my bids. I need to put together some average kinda formulas for basic things. Usually consisting of trenching/backfilling. Also some basic concrete work And asphalt patching. We are in the PNW. What’s the going rate for trenching/backfilling? 2’ deep? 3’ deep? Rates for Asphalt patch over trenches (usually 2’ wide) per foot/sq ft? Concrete patches, slabs and prep Etc? I’m sure I’ll think of more as I get to them. Thanks in advance!
Where are you in terms of northwest. I did live in Smithers B.C. before just before Prince Rupert. Or are you in Washington state area. Need to know where exactly within few hundred miles as prices can change a lot from US side to Canadian Side. US dollar worth about 1.37 more than Canadian dollar right now. That is equal to some dollars per hour, Per square foot.. Simon C
We are in Wa.
Nothing?
Are you geared up for paving, or are you subbing that out? Concrete work? doing it yourself or subbing it out. What are concrete rates? Do any slabs require special concrete? How many PSI, fiber mesh? What are paving rates? What type of mix do they want. If you pave yourself, do you have a truck with a tarp? How far away are the asphalt plants? Do you have a roller with water, or a plate tamper with water. Do you know how to pave? There is a nack to it. Can you backfill with existing material? Most paving jobs require 2 to 3 inches of gravel under the pave. Same with concrete.. What are local company hourly rates? How long will it take you? If you get into hard digging, is there an allowance for special equipment rental. Here you can access government equipment rates, but it is the high end of the payment scale. Most companies work for around 80% of that rate. Does your state have such a system. Another thought is getting rid of concrete and asphalt that you dig up. Some place close to dump it. We can dump it, but it has to be covered. Mind you we could dump all season, and at the end of the year it has to be covered.
I'm not sure you are going to get much help from folks regarding what they charge. My advice would be to sub-out things like asphalt patching and concrete work. Let people that are good at that do it. Small concrete patches are not a big deal, but when you start requiring forms and such it is best to sub that out in my opinion. Make your best guess on the time that will be required, use rental equipment rates to calculate hourly rates for your equipment with labor, insurance, and transport etc. added in on top of that, and keep extremely good records of time and expense of each job that you have done. If you have employees, you will soon find that you need to charge roughly double what there hourly rate is in order to come out after you pay FICA, Workers Comp, health insurance, etc. You will make mistakes, and wind up doing a few jobs below cost, but soon you will have a database for how much time you have into various tasks. You will also learn pretty quickly that you must charge appropiately for the time it takes to plan, gather materials, get locates, and use your money to do all of these things. You may also approach things on a Time and Material Basis, although T&M doesn't allow as much of a profit margin compared to bidding things correctly. Also, it is competitive. If you get greedy you won't maintain good relationships with steady clients, but remember that your risk has a value. I know this isn't what you are looking for, but it is a start.
In addition to what CE asked (very good questions BTW) let's start with the basics like what equipment and trucks do you have to do the job(s) you are asking about? I'll sub all concrete and asphalt work out if we have to do it. Most of the times I just exclude it as there is not enough $$ on the markup for the scheduling and hassle. Oxbow as usual gives great advice on the subject, specifically this - OG we have a lot of knowledge here on HEF and more than happy to help so give us a little more background on the projects, your equipment and such.
So you're dragging around a midi or mini ex charging by the hour? For hourly work you need a minimum charge because people will ask you to bring it for fifty bucks worth of work, then say thanks! as you put in a full day on their small job. I had one joker talk me into hauling my 10 ton midi ex to his place to pull a few small tree stumps before I wised up to having minimums, my minimum on the midi ex is now $950 a day. I do not get much business at that price but dragging around a 20,000 machine cannot pay less than a thousand period. People DO NOT WANT TO PAY ANYTHING and home owners rarely have use for a $950 bill. I have done some jobs with the mid ex like a couple of land clearing gigs, culverts, and parking lot ripouts. The bobcat gets lots of work (Atlanta) and my minimum on that is three hours. It gets lots of work, and I give a half day rate. If you are bidding by the job then good luck. There's no way on earth to know exactly how long some job is going to take to any real accuracy. All you can hope for is a 3 hour window maybe. What I do is say "I think that's one days work" or "two days work" etc. Then you just use your day rate times whatever the number is. You should know what you need to make your machine break even for a work day. For my midi ex it's $950 but like I said, very few home owners are going to pay that. If I was serious about marketing it I would probably have a half day rate to grab a few easy jobs but dragging around a 20,000 lb machine gets real old for less than a thousand a day.
Again, cross border stuff, but here, even subbing under large companies, requires you to have some type of safety program if you have employees. Field Level Hazard Assessment cards, toolbox talks. Incident reports. Someone on site has to be trained in first aid. Certification in trenching, confined space. We can't even bid government work without being core certified in safety
Usually small pads for generators and containers for power/switch gear and the trenching between them for power etc. sometimes these are in parking lots and the asphalt gets patched. Plate compactor with water will be used. We have considered buying a smaller roller tho. Usually we use our current mini ex, wacker and and dump trailer or Sometimes our dump truck. Usually we sub out the asphalt cutting but will use a hot saw for additional trimming/adjustment, if needed.
That's a nice list of equipment for the scope of work you describe. When you say small pads for generators and containers I am assuming skid gen's and conex's? Equipment rates vary widely across the country as they should since what I have to account for in cost may be very different from what you have to account for. FWIW: Mini-ex with 18"-24" bucket 3' deep including backfill is around $7 per FT plus 15% markup. Mobilization is not included in that price. I do very little if any unit price or hourly work so take that with a grain of salt. If you are trenching across an asphalt parking lot need to haul off the trench spoils and replace with crushed stone it's a simple formula of LxWxD plus swell % on the spoils and compaction/waste factor on the structural fill. Simple formula to calculate retainer wall or trench excavation. Average swell factor for our soils is around 20% and we get 15 CY on truck. Here's a very simple section of a spreadsheet I made to estimate storm sewer for a project. On the same sheet I have type of material, quantity and price of all the pipe, structures, castings, ect. that tie into the lump sum material line. No clue on asphalt patching. Here 6" concrete paving patch over 6" stone base would probably be in the $15-20 per SF range with a minimum charge? Just guessing. What's the average depth on your asphalt cuts? Depending on the depth and linear footage of cutting you may want to look at a walk behind saw like this one - Husqvarna FS 400 LV Concrete Flat Saw | Husqvarna US Our robust FS 400 LV is a convenient all-round petrol push floor saw. The adjustable handle ensures an ergonomic working position. Perfect weight distribution www.husqvarnaconstruction.com I bought a used one similar to this one from UR for $1500 IIRC. Little saw has paid for itself over the last couple of years. With that being said if we have a lot of LF or thick asphalt/concrete we'll sub it out.
I work around some bigger tilt wall jobs. I have been told that the site contractors will bid some of the main site work under or at cost to get on the job. They then make their money off of change orders and site issues. I have a friend that has about 25 men and lots of iron he never does tilt wall sites because he keeps his cost per yard too high to compete. Big risks in big concrete pours. I saw a concrete plant remove and replace a pour (30k sq ft pour 7"s thick) in savanahha this year. Over 100k mistake because the plant guy forgot to add retarder to the mix and it cracked. Concrete company used their own dump trucks and excavator to remove it.
There are highway contractors that do the same. Some must have bigger law departments than our state. I hate the "make the money off the change order" approach. I'm not saying that it isn't good business, just that I don't care for looking for ways to take advantage when a contractor ought to be looking for ways to be the solution to the problem at a fair price. I suppose a lot has to do with whether or not a contractor is looking for repeat business on long term relationship with the client.
Or - The client is not looking for a long term relationship with a contractor and just wants the cheapest price. One of the many reasons why I prefer a negotiated/design build relationship with GC/owners. Once a relationship is established it is the the most cost efficient means of project delivery. It's just hard to get all parties to the table sometimes.
Good point.
yeah usually skid mounts. Conexs sometimes and stick built sometimes of similar dimension.