The decal says D10. I get that, but it's a D10 that's not like any other D10. I don't understand why people get all bent out of shape when somebody says D10L. Atleast that way eveyone knows we're talking about a D11 sized machine and not a D10N,R, or T. What am I missing here? Would it be better to refer to it as a D11? Cat could made things easy by adding an L to decal on 84W's from the beginning.
Well when it was first made it was a D10, one size above the D9H that was the biggest tractor Cat made until that point. So maybe it should've been a D10H...? Are there any still working..? The problem was actually with the D8. Over the years it had gradually got more & more HP (D8H/235 HP to D8K/300 HP where the D7 (160-180 HP) had stayed pretty much the same. The last straw was when the D8L appeared in 1982 with all of 335 BHP, almost double the D7G. So of course Cat had to fill the gap and did so by moving everything else up 1 number and creating the D8N at 285 BHP.
Yes Sukut Construction in California still uses D10's, they still have three maby four D10's. Sukut bid the first toll road in California back in 1995 and was awarded the job, 1.5 Billion Dollar job, Sukut started a new company Silverado Construction and did the toll road. Sukut would have all of there D10's in the same cut with three brand new D11's ripping for the scrapers and the D10's could not tuch what the D11's would rip. Sukut bid the job for blasting everything and Silverado never blasted anything on the toll road thank's to the D10's and D11's. The new D8R's N's what ever, are only the size of the older D7 dozers, The D8L's are the same size as the D9R's, so Caterpillar is now making more money for there 9R's because they moved all there track type tractors up one notch.
I don,t see what is so hard about this, yes it is a D10 not like any other, that is because it is the first of that series!!! pretty simple really. There is no such machine as a D10L so the people that call it that don,t know what they are on about, again pretty simple. If you want to refer to it as something it should be a D10, thats what it is not a D11, a D11 is a D11, again pretty simple.
abit like the 930 and 950 loaders, you dont call them a 930A or 950A
I think the comparison has to also include the machine weight. The D8L was the turning point and the confusion came when they downsized on the frames. 8L became 9N. Dozer size was bigger, track width and engine HP all increased but essentially an 8L frame. Another point of confusion is on the smaller Cats where they made a D4H and a smaller D4C to compete with Deere. A D4H would out push or out "everything" a D5C. Now there is some cause for confusion.
gavin84w To your question about the D10L, Yes Caterpillar did made a D10L, the difference was the D10 had a single stack, the D10L had two stacks, you can go to the Machinery trader magazine and put in D10 and the magazine will bring up the single stack D10, then you can bring up on the Machinery Trader magazine D10L and then you can see the difference between the D10 and the D10L, two stacks, the track photos still show the sprocket and the rear idler are almost straight up and down. Then the difference between the D10-D10L and the D11 was the track arrangement - they lengthened the swing frames in the photos of the D11, the sprocket and the rear idler are farther apart so this gives the D11 more track on the ground, plus the D11 had a different motor a V-8, where the D10 had a V-12. Check it out I think I'm right!
white-elephant You are right about the D8Ls and the D9Ns, the reason the D9Ns out weigh the D8Ls is the swing frames, the movement of the rear idelers farther back puts more track on the ground, that is where the difference of weight comes from, plus a bigger dozer, bigger ripper, and more horse power. The D8L and the D9Ns the hoods, fuel tanks, radiators any cosmetic parts are interchainable between the D8L and the D9Ns. The D4H I think would out weigh the D5Cs, even though the D4H has a four cylinder motor, but I don't think the D4H would weigh more than the D5M?
Oh Boy! Can't wait till Gav reads post number 7. I personally don't think there is anybody on this forum (or this side of the development team in Peoria) that knows more about the 84W series of the D10 than Gavin. And of all the history books I've read about Cat and the 84W D10, and of the on going arguments on this forum and others as well, there never was such a thing as a D10L. Those machines listed in Machinery Trader have all had new paint jobs with D10L stickers added to them. Not only have they had the wrong stickers placed on them, most have been repainted with the wrong shade of Cat yellow. Hate to burst your bubble there X Quad Skinner, but there is no such thing as a 10L. Never was, never will be. No matter how much paint, or how many stickers someone applys!
X, I am happy to bet my left and right one and the big fella that there is no such thing as a D10L, never ever has been one mate. At 84W00610 and up serial numbers was where i think they changed to twin stack. This change came about due to continual fires and heat from the 2 turbos being at the rear of the engine hence moving them out to the side and then gaining twin exhausts. Machinery trader is, well not some where i would consider the bible for accurate info, especially when it comes to machine paint schemes and "period" correct and accurate model description decals. Lots of outfits on there trying to make older machines look more modern with dodgy paint jobs and decals, all right in front of your face!! Imagine what they have done on the inside of a tranny or engine where you can,t see!!!
And for those of you that were confused about the two different serial numbers that were issued for the D10, like I was. Thinkin that the other searil number could have been a 10L. The 76X was a narrow track gauge unit, most suited to pushing scrapers, because of its narrower width. (Cheers to Gavin for clearing that up a couple years ago!:drinkup)
I completely agree that there never was a D-10L, but, in general usage, many refer to the original with the "L" behind it, so they don't have to get into the discussion about which D-10 they are talking about. It is easy to confuse some folks, and the rebadged ones fool many, as seen in the post above by X quad operator. For those people, saying it with the "L" establishes it as the same vintage as the D-9L and the D-8L. If you are talking about a D-10N, D-10R, or D-10T, there is never(well, rarely) any confusion, but when you leave out the letter, then you get a blank stare from many people. Adding the "L" makes the explanation easier, though it is still not correct.
I work a lot with 994 Wheel Loaders, and a similar thing happens with them. There have been 3 models since it was first introduced, 994, 994D, & 994F. Normally (although incorrectly) we refer to them in conversation as the "A", "D", & "F" models so that everyone in the conversation knows which generation of machine we're talking about.
Good Morning Nige I've enjoyed running the 992C's and can't beleve how much traction the loader has in different materials. The loaders traction lever, I always ran it at 100 percent and the visibility in both directions were ausum, the brake out force on the Hydrolics were powerful and in good material about two curls and it was loaded. I can't emagine running a 994 model, the POWER has to be great and the visibility, it should make you feel like your king of the pit? Whats the smallest trucks you loaded with the 994? Any dump trucks? What gear do you run in? I always ran in first, kept the trucks close, and the hydrolics always seem to keep up in first, in second the hoist always seemed to be to slow and you had to push the brake to reve the engine up to load what ever. Nige where are you located? I'm retired, almost 50 years in the operating engineers and now live in Washington state and now enjoying being an old !!!!. I know the Grandaughter at Peterson tractor in California, I'm going to talk to her and have her look up and see if I was wrong about this D10L tractor, all I know is that if the Machinery advertises a D10L there must of been one? Mike
I am willing to put my &^%$ on the block and you are thinking that if machinery advertises a D10L there must be one? c,mon man. If they told you a GD825 Komatsu grader was better than a 16G would you believe it?
992C versus 994 ..? Simple - 992C @ 200,000lb is a Wheel Loader, 994 @ 400,000lb is a mining machine. You have to maintain them more like a shovel than a wheel loader. It's caused owners headaches over the years until they twigged to the fact that the 994 isn't an overgrown 992 and so can't be treated like one. You could run a 992C at full power on the VCTC lever, you can't run a 994 like that unless the ground is perfectly dry otherwise you'll spin the tyres off in seconds. 994 has a "Rimpull Control" where you can electronically dial the "slip" of the TC Impeller Clutch to whatever maximum you want. Our machines here never seem to get much past 65% before spinning the tyres despite the weight of the machine. 994 has a "Cruise Control" throttle that you set on High Idle then run the machine on the TC neutralizer (left) pedal all the time. The latest 994F the left pedal is fully modulated and feels just like the clutch pedal on a manual shift car transmission combined with the brakes when you press it further down. Super-smart electronics that can tell when the machine is digging and automatically sets the engine RPM to maximum Torque RPM as opposed to High Idle. You can't run the loader in anything else but 1st unless you're tramming it from one work place to another. 994 & 994D were the same cab as a 992C so visibility out of it was sh!te. The new F cab is much better. I'm currently in the Caribbean on a new gold mine project. Before that Latin America, before that Africa, Russia, India, and loads of other places, always on large open-pit mining projects. Regarding the D10L I can pitch in and tell you that Cat never built one ......... it was something "badged up" done by a rebuild shop somewhere. It couldn't have been done by a dealer, Cat wouldn't have let them do it. As pointed out above, the first generation D10 (84W & 76X prefix) went from a single exhaust stack to a twin stack at 84W610 & 76X359 respectively. A lot of people thought it was a different machine model when really it was just a development of an existing model to address heat issues that had been experienced with the single exhaust stack system. The D10 was replaced by the D11N (74Z/4Hk prefix). At the same time the switch was made from the D348 to a 3508 engine, first with MUI injection and later in the D11R (8ZR, 7PZ, & 9TR prefix, 9XR & AAF prefix for the Carrydozer) with EUI injection. Finally came the latest generation D11T GEB (std. dozer) & TPB (Carrydozer) prefix machines equipped with a C32 ACERT engine. Smallest truck I ever saw a 994 loading was a 725 articulated - and believe me I have the photo to prove it ........!! Normally a Standard Lift 994 loads 785s, a High-Lift will load 789s, an Extended Lift will load 793s, and a Super-High Lift will load a 793 with a coal body.
We're having so much trouble with 16M's at the moment I even went as far as threatening our local Cat dealer we'd send them back and buy Komatsu GD825s ...... How desperate was that..? Can't keep transmissions in the feckers ........
Good afternoon Gavin84w When I was working for Silverado Construction in California in 1996 they had four D10s and two D11Ns in the same cut and I would sware two D10s had D10L stickers on the fuel tank and when I looked at the Machinery trader they have a section for D10s and D10Ls, so I have to eat crow on this one. McCoy Construction had one D10 and a D11, Rassmussen had a older D10, and Silverado had ther four D10s and two D11s. Haven't seen any D10s up here in the Washington state sence I moved up here in the last twenty years, Scarsella Brothers out of Seattle has four sets of Quad D9Gs, now thats a unusual sight and they still run them on ther bigger jobs, I ran one for three years on there HWY 395 job back in 1995. Do you see a lot of D10s in your area? Where are you located. Well its time for diner and I'm having crow. Mike
Nige Sounds like you enjoy working in mines all over the world and the 994 is a joy to run. Where do you call home? which country was the neatest to work, and I supose you work all kinds of hours? Nige have a nice day. Mike
"Home" is the UK. Well that's where my house is. I don't get back as often as I'd like but funnily enough I'm off back there tomorrow (Thursday 7th) because my 2nd son is getting married in a week or so. We always said that in Product Support our working hours were "26 hours a day, 9 days a week" ......... Plus ca change as the French would say, it'll never change while there are still operators buggering up equipment. If I had to pick a favourite country it would be Chile. I first went there for what was planned as a 3 month stint and ended up staying 9 years. In the photos of at least one of the 5 x "D10L's" listed in Machinery Trader you can clearly see "D10" logos on the fuel tank, plus the ad carries the Serial Number - 84W00816. I think we've done this one to death. G'night .........
I agree in the designation of the D10 as an unofficial D10L in conversation. This being that D10 can also be used generically. Cat made a 621. Many people refer to this as a 621A even though it was just a 621. Later Cat came out with a 621B. If someone says 621 would you know specifically if they were talking about a 621 or a 621B or a 621E or a 621F or a 621G or an upcoming 621H? I have Caterpillar produced literature that refers to a 621 (23H) as a 621A. D10L would mean more to more people than the D10 84W. The lettering implies generation. Why know 621C or 621D? Because they ran the 621B until they updated the other products (631s, 651s) to E models. The D10 84W was closer to the generation of the D9L and D8L.
That is desperation maximus for sure!!!
I've also heard afew people refer to them as "twin stack" D10's also
theres afew "loan" 16Ms doing the rounds in WA while all the customers machines are going though our local CAT dealers for warrenty work
If you agree, then i am afraid to say you are wrong. If someone was talking about a 621 then to me it would be a 621 with a V8 engine and an outboard rear axle retainer. If some one referred to a 621B to me it would be a 3406 equipped machine, i am sorry but to me it is that simple, that is why they have a letter designation to identify them after the first model which if it is given any designation it would be as you say an "A" model, therefore if anything the 84W D10 should really be refered to as a "D10A". The lettering and generation thing is drawing a long bow in the Case of "L"lettered tractors, the only reason the D9 & D8 had it is because it was a natural progression from there last models, the D10 never had a last model so it can not be an "L" At the end of the day if you go by Cat,s numbering system there can be no confusion as to what is what, it is only when people dream up there own stuff that it gets all &^%$#@ up. Very much like a track loader always being called a Drott, an artic truck being called a Moxy and a skid steer loader being called a Bobcat. It is just bull$hit and we should be educating people not letting them go off and be wrong because they heard someone else say it. Flame away.
I use to have a easy conversation when talking about D10's. I would always refer to the 84W/76X as "twin stack D10's, that worked until they upgraded the D10R with the "twin stacks". Now since D10's are scarce everyone refers to any generation as a D10, regardless of series. It's nice when you say something about a D10 & someone answers you back with "you mean the 84W? Then you know you are talking with someone who know tractors.
Dug Overburden When I worked for Fulton He ran D9L's for pushcats and double pushed on the 657's-51's all the time, I got stuck on a D9L pushing a couple days, and then when I worked for Scarsella out of Seattle I ran a D10R and with a dozer on it and I could not tell the difference between the D9L or the D10R yet when you take the D9L or D10R and work them beside a real D10 or D11 the size difference, they look like your working next to a D6 just (comparing size).
Amen to that Chris!
Yair...not much into remembering models and numbers but what was the scraper I ran for a few days in PNG (late seventy's). It had what I think was the smoky 621 vee eight up front with a straight six down the back. No one seems to know about them but an outfit out of Moresby had a few apparently.
Komatsu rulez.....just sayin
is QTOT related to Quik Trax of Texas?
I love those 1 liners with no substance behind them as to what they mean, always amazes me why the more expensive product is more popular than Komatsu
I think he was just stirring the pot. Vinci Pacific had a D10 they still ran back in 07. It was on Hot dirt moven SOB.
Hahahahaha, a comedian!
yes the one and only....................