First time poster, long time reader. I have a 966 b caterpillar end loader from 1964 I believe. The original engine blew and it was replaced with a d333 from a motor grader. The d333 is a small bore 4.5 inch with a block number of 7M4400 and a crank number of 8M4502. The motor grader d333 has spun a bearing and is already ground 20-20 so the crank is junk. I have been looking for a 8M4502 crank, which is a 5.5" stroke instead of all I have called on that are a 6.0" stroke. Seems this is a gray area that some 8M4502's are listed as a 6.0" stroke. It also needs new liners, pistons, and a gasket kit. It has been a nightmare trying to find decent useable parts for this old of a motor. I was wondering if the back end of the D333 that bolts to the bellhousing is the same as a 3306? I have to use my bellhousing because that's the way they drive the hydraulic pump. I can make hoses and tubes to reroute the oil, water and air lines but I can't change the location of the hydraulic pump driven from the bellhousing gears. I have a lead on a 3306 PC #23C02271 for $1000 but needs a little tweaking I think and it would be easier to get 3306 parts. Hopefully somebody has been through this before and can shed some light on my situation.
From what information I have acquired the D330c/D333c (4-3/4" bore 6" stroke) will interchange with 3304/3306 engines but the D330/D333 (4-1/2" bore 5-1/2" stroke) will not. Yes there seems to be a lot of industry confusion between the two.
These are the pictures of the bellhousing and the flat plate is of the gear housing at the drive end of the engine. The hollow gear slips over the end of the crank and gets sandwitched between the crank and the flywheel. A gear meshes with it and then another drives the hydraulic pump. A call to caterpillar came up loosely that the flat plate would bolt to a 3306 and that's how this bellhousing adapts to a 966b transmission. The plate crosses over to a 3306 in a 973 track loader. I wish there was a 3306 block nearby that I could just take the plate over to and see if it matches up for sure. Hopefully most all 3306's have the same drive end bolt pattern.
If you can direct match cross over parts your chances of conversion are way better. Beware there are oil passage plugs and connections that need to match up at the rear of the engine. Also there are differences in locating dowels.
My only other question / problem is how much horsepower / torque will the newer 3306 have? My d333 is a turbo and the 3306 is not. The 3306 is a mid 90's model I think so it will have more hp in general due to new technology but how much? The guy that owns the 3306 said it has a 3/8 plate between the head and block instead of the 1" plate. Am I correct in assuming that the thicker plate is for less compression for a turbo application? Could I put the d333 turbo on the 3306 or do I even need to? Is there a way to look up hp and torque ratings for a 3306 PC #23C02271 engine?
23C02271 was shipped 1st Feb 1990 and is specced at 150hp at 2200rpm. I can't say I've ever seen a 1" spacer plate. More info on this please?
I don't know much about the spacer plate in the 3306, I was told by the guy selling it that somebody came and looked at it and didn't want it because the spacer plate was the thinner 3/8 inch one. Apparently there is a larger plate on some variants of 3306's but I'm not sure even how thick they are, all I know is that there's a difference according to him. I don't have a picture of his engine right now but if you google a 3306, on some of them you can see a spacer plate between the block and the head. The engine I have is a 96F1256 D333T that caterpillar says is from a 1964 14D road grader. The D333t is around 150 hp also so I my not even need the turbo on it.
Same here. did some Google searching on spacer plate and did not find anything. could this be something for a natural gas engine? That said seems somewhere I had heard of an engine where they cut the counter bores in to the spacer plate in place of the block, maybe an earlier version of the design?
The original 966B D333T (4-1/2" bore) was rated at 150 hp @2,200 flrpm. (rack setting based on actual s/n) The 14D 96F1256 engine D333T (4-1/2" bore) was rated at 140 hp @ 1900 flrpm. (rack setting 0.080") Spacer plate on the late 3306 is 0.3925" thick. Don't know anything about a 1" spacer plate. Seems the range of hp your looking at will work between the three engines. Using the 3306 without turbo.
That would be great if I didn't need to hook the turbo up to it. It would be a pain to reroute all the air lines and try to get a oil line up to it and make it work. Even if the housing for the gears between the block and bellhousing is different maybe I could machine it to fit as a worst case scenario. The thick 1" head plate I don't know anything about. He said its a diesel that came out of a railcar mining crane and it had a exhaust scrubber hooked to it to run in the mine. One would generally think that a thicker plate = less compression = turbo, natural gas or lp operation, Thinner plate = more compression = diesel. Maybe someone with a gas generator 3306 would know, not sure if they even made them. I'm going to figure out shipping and probably go for it and try to make it work.
Your covering unfamiliar ground to say the least. Entirely different block between the D333 and D333C/3306. Be an interesting project and how it works out. How tight a space do you have on the other end as the D333C/3306 has a gear drive water pump which is not as compact as the belt drive D333 version.
Here's a picture of the rear of my D333T to compare, maybe someone might have a pic of the rear of a 3306 for comparison? There's a bit of room in the front of the engine and I may be able to move the radiator out farther if needed. Hopefully it doesn't stick out on the sides too much either but I have room for that.
Its been a while since I posted on this as I was waiting on a engine for the loader. The 3306 showed up and looks good to go. I had to remove the bellhousing from the 3306 and replace the back end with my intermediate plate, the gear train that bolts to it, the gear on the crankshaft, and finally bolt up the bellhousing from the d333. Also install the flywheel from the d333. I had to remove a frost plug at the very end of the main oil passage and put a orifice in from the d333 to oil the gear train too, Almost overlooked that part. The 3306 was a 12volt so I had to reuse my 24 volt starter which was no problem since it bolts to the original bellhousing. All the stuff on the rear of the engine was a exact fit, it all bolted up fine without any problems, the front was a different story. The front of the 3306 is about .75" shorter than the d333 so I had to find centerline of the crank and weld the brackets from the 3306 to the d333 motor mount with .75 bar stock vertical between the mounts. After it was welded up I cut away the center of the D333 bracket so this left room for the crankshaft damper and pulley to fit back against the engine. The fan pulley was part of the water pump on the D333 so of course the 3306 would be in the wrong place. I had to machine out a bracket to relocate the fan pulley up and over about 5 inches to be in the center of the radiator when it goes on. The alternator was a lot easier. I just had to drill a hole in the motor mount and make a few spacers for It and reuse the original slide adjuster. I need to finish up the compressor intake, some oil lines, the air shutoff for the injector pump, and wire it for the controls and gauges and maybe it will run!! I am in need of some information of where some of the hoses go also if anybody has a good diagram of a 3306 and where the connections go? Like the thermostat, oil gauge, air shutoff line for the injector. Also It looks like a thermal valve that comes off the rear of the engine, controlled by the exhaust temperature and it looks like it oils the water pump? Hopefully that's right? Ill keep updating when I get some more figured out. It has been a interesting project so far.
More Photos. Not sure how to get them as photos and not attachments. Hopefully people can see them
First off do you have a S/N off this "new" engine and what it came out of? In the picture below I'm at a loss to know what that box like thing on top of the head is, I marked it with a red "X". As for the thermostat it should be mounted under the casting that has four 3/8 inch bolts with the hose coming off the topped, circled it in green. Also not understanding what the "air shut off line for injector" means. All the older Cats I was around the shut off for the engine was worked by pulling the foot peddle back past a detent to put pump in "no-fuel" position. Oh just remembered the oil pressure gauge hook-up point on most of the 3306 engine I knew was and 1/8 pipe fitting near the right rear corner of the block up fairly close to the head as I recall, believe it was at the rear cam bearing area. When I say front or right and left on engine I am talking as the flywheel end is the rear and right side is if you were standing behind the engine at the flywheel end looking towards the front. So rear of machine is where the front of the engine is and left side of machine is right side of machine, at least for a loader!
That's the way I look at it also. The bellhousing is the rear and the fan is the front. The S/N is 3306 PC #23C02271. It came out of a mining crane of some sort so I don't really know the make of the machine it came out of. I am assuming it had a few extra things added to it being it was for mining service. The thing in the picture with a red x is some sort of intake box with a shutoff damper in it. I'm assuming again its a air shutoff to kill the engine. The thermostat housing that contains the thermostat, Is that where the water temp sender goes? There's some plugs there that I could plug into but was wondering if its better there or in the head? The oil pressure I kinda figured out but was wondering If I could tee it off of the main oil passage in the block on the intercooler side of the engine? I'm assuming again that the lever on the injector pump is the no fuel or fuel shutoff lever? On this engine there is a air or oil cylinder that pushes the lever over to open or shut off the fuel? It looks like it might have been a problem and was moved so it might not even work either.
That will be low oil pressure emergency shutdown.
When I put in the 23C02271 S/N in SIS this is what I see: Not sure about the PC NA and High Compression designation. To me NA would mean Naturally Aspirated, in other words Non-Turbo engine. Was a turbo going to be used on this installation? A little more digging does show that this engine had a mechanical emergency shut down system for over temp or low oil pressure which I would guess is what controls that lever on the fuel pump.
That's interesting that it lists it as a D333c. The original D333C is a turbo but the new 3306 does not have a turbo on it. It says 150hp on the tag on the engine and the original D333C was 140hp so I should be fine I think. I had never thought of a low oil pressure shutdown but now it makes sense. There's also what looks like to me a thermal activated valve on the exhaust manifold with a few oil lines running to it also. I would believe it to be the over temp shoutdown also that sends oil to the emergency fuel cutoff shutdown solenoid.
Here's a bit more info that may or may not be of any use:
And to just confuse things more I took a look at the piston page on SIS and see this: Not sure if that is important, but don't think there is any place in Iowa that is half way to 4,000 feet!
Hopefully the altitude doesn't matter much for this engine. My survey last year put my altitude at 700ft. I wonder why the engine would spec out as a high compression engine when it was supposedly a mining crane that would almost be assured to be low altitude? Unless they just spec high compression and more fuel to get 150hp out of it? I was also told it had some sort of air scrubber behind it also for mining, not that it really matters for what I'm doing though.
Wish I could answer that, it was strange to me too. Maybe the mine was up at the top of a mountain?
I finally got the 3306 engine loader running!!! It fired right up after pumping the primer for a little bit and about 7 seconds of cranking it over. I had to weld a 1/2 pipe fitting to the intake to go to the air compressor inlet, hook up the Bendix air compressor governor, and finish up the little bit of wiring to the engine. I put a gauge on the oil pressure port at the engine and It has about 70 psi of oil pressure so I thought that was good although not sure what they should actually be for pressure. I was wondering in the attached pictures what the little port with the brass plug goes to? It originally had a brake flare fitting in it and not really sure where it went to as this is a different setup. I'm also looking for a cap for the road sign blockoff plate for the accessory drive if anyone knows a part number or a source for one. The sign is holding but I would like a more permanent solution. I also had to custom make the radiator adapters to fit up to this engine, the top one is 1/4 plate with a 2-1/2 od pipe welded to it and smoothed out. The bottom one was a 3/8 plate 3 bolt flange with a 2-1/2 pipe fabricated to a 90 out and a 45 at the end to hook up to the bottom of the gear driven water pump. Making them wasn't too bad cause I own a machine shop. I was just hoping my welds held and didn't drain 25 gallons of coolant onto the city street! Ill get some more pictures when I get the intake filter and exhaust fabbed up and installed. Thank you to all for your help on this, it is very much appreciated.
I'm back again. The loader and the 3306 are running decent, used it to load some rocks and concrete from the yard the other day and it worked pretty good. It's blowing some white smoke when I rev it up a bit but when its at a steady rpm whether revved up or at idle it doesn't smoke. The oil pressure is at 100 psi and I was thinking that this might be the cause of the smoking? It looks like it might be seeping some oil out the exhaust cause it looks burnt oily on the underside of the exhaust pipe. Has this ever happened to a engine before? Maybe I got a oil line in the wrong place or not hooked up correctly? Also I need to put a winter heater system on this engine. Its a 110 volt plug in type unit with a heater and a pump to circulate heated coolant thru the engine. The heater has a 3/4 inlet and a 3/4 outlet and I was wondering if anybody knows the best places on the engine to hook up the inlet and the outlet? I'll get some pictures of the loader and engine loaded up soon. Thank you all for your help.
The white smoke is most likely unburned fuel, from late timing or bad injectors, or? The turbo can leak oil too, I wouldn't worry about your oil pressure or oil lines wrong causing the smoke. If the turbo doesn't have oil pressure it will let you know soon enough , same with anything else that's not getting oil pressure. Are you talking about the common tank style heater?, or something that looks like it cost a grand originally that you pulled off a hospital genset? because those common tank heaters are called "circulation" heaters, but they don't circulate unless you install them to thermosiphon. There's no pump, but as long as the lines slope up towards the engine, then the coolant will circulate on it's own. You want the hose from the lowest spot on the water jacket of the engine going into the side of the heater, and the hose from the top of the heater can go to anywhere else on the water jacket. If you can get about 2' of height in the hose coming off the top, then the heater will lose less heat to the air because it will stay closer to the temp of the engine from the stronger circulation.
There is no turbo on this engine, In the manual for the D6C I have with a 3306 it says low oil pressure is 20 psi so i was wondering if normal oil pressure is around say 40 psi? If its 0 or 100 though ill take 100. As for the heater after looking it up online it says circulating but I believe it to be of the thermosiphon style. Attached are pictures of the oil stains down the exhaust tube and the side of the block. I was thinking I could pull the top square head pipe plug on the water pump and that would be the suction? Then pull the one next to the top of the oil filter in the picture and that would be the return? If not this engine has coolant lines going through the exhaust manifold per the steel braided lines in the pictures too. What about teeing it in to that somehow?
More pictures of the project. I also need to repack one of the lift cylinders on this machine so if anybody knows the seal kit number for one of these I would appreciate that too. It seems that putting the engine in was the easy part but hooking up the weird accessories to the engine is the hard part. It also has a cab heater but I think I can tie that into the coolant lines that come off of the exhaust manifold. The one is close to the cab so it wouldn't be too bad to hook another steel braided line to the heater in the cab and return it to the block I could put a bypass valve on it too so it didn't have to go to the cab heater for warming up the engine.
Looks like you did a good job its always the details that take time there should be a block heater to screw right in
That sure looks like motor oil on the exhaust. I was thinking it would be unburned fuel, but that would be more sooty. I don't know what to think of the oil pressure, does it go down when the engine gets warmed up? Those plugs will work as long as they don't trap an air bubble. Ideally you want the cold water to come out of the bottom of the water jacket, and the hot to go into the middle horizontally (like cylinder 3 or 4 , it can go high or low, only difference is how low you have to hang the heater to get the same circulation)
I work on lots of generators that usually have tank type thermosiphon heaters. I see them plumbed all sorts of ways but mostly just hook the low side of the heater to a low port on the engine and the high side to a higher port. Any convenient block drain and a heater outlet seem most common.
Good day Ferrret, just want to know whether you finally completed your installation of 3306 engine on your 966B wheel loader. Did it work well on the 966B after installation
I did but it has issues. It doesn't have quite the power that the owner seems to think it used to with the d333. Even though the hp is close to the same maybe the turbo gave it a snappier response. It moves good and has quite a bit of torque but I think it could dig better also. The owner seems to think that it would spin all 4 tires when digging into a pile of dirt but I don't see that happening with a 32,000 lb machine. It still has 100 lbs of oil pressure which is a little issue but it runs. I was discussing it with some mechanics and was possibly thinking that maybe 100lbs of oil pressure was hindering it from producing more power as it was robbing combustion but not really sure. We were also possibly thinking of tapping a oil pressure regulator or a flow control into the pressure line on the side of the block to reduce the oil pressure and see if it has a little more power. I had to fix the air brakes a while back so its been a off and on project for the last year. The mechanics and me were also wondering if the D333 with the turbo revved a little higher than the 3306 and maybe this would cause the transmission pressures to be different and make it a little slower and slip some?
thanks for your response , I bought a 966 machine two weeks ago and I got to know some days ago that it's a 1967 966B. The machine runs fine with enough power. I want to know whether the engine parts are readily available like 3306 and whether the engine is workable just like the 3306 engine
Parts are available but they're scarce and expensive. The crankshaft was bad on the D333 and cost $2000 for a new one. The ones on ebay won't work, They screwed up listing them and the journals are different somehow. The 3306 is a really common engine and parts are readily available. The whole 3306 was $1000 compared to just a crank for $2000 so it was a no brainer to put a different engine in.
Hello all again, I'm back to working on the 966B again. It doesn't have the get up and go as it used to so I'm looking at a rebuild. It has a lot of blowby and is sending oil out the exhaust so I think the oil control rings are shot. Could it possibly something with the valves too? The engine has a tag on it that says SER# 23C02271 3306 AR# 1n2469 Perf spec OT3188 Power 150Hp The block number is 7N5456. Not sure if its a "n" in the AR# cause the tag was scratched up a little bit. Been looking at a kit for this engine with a Kit # 3306 8N3182. Was wondering if anybody has info on the kit and if the parts in it will work for my 3306?
Engine Arrangement Number is actually 1W-2469. See attached. 8N-3182 is listed as a piston body for a lower compression (17.5:1) engine. Your engine is 21:1 compression ratio and uses an 8N-3184 Piston Body