We had excessive thrust play in out 9h d353. We pulled the engine to find the thrust face to the rear of the crank chewed up. The bearing is a 1n4335 that's stamped also with 5nedn unan 0.63 os 0.63 us From what I found this bearing is listed as a 25 over 25 under or is it a 63 over/under? Do they make oversized thrust bearings or should we be looking for a crank? Is it possible to have the crank welded up and ground back to spec on the one thrust face? I'll be calling a bunch of crank shops tomorrow to try and figure out the best possible route on this one. The motor is still half in the frame so I can't really mic the crank or block. We were hoping for just a bearing but now it's looking like major surgery. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Best I could find is after market #MB2603AL25 which I believe to be 0.025 over and 0.025 under. The 0.63 numbers are just the metric measure version of the same. Seems there may have been a 0.050 over/under also if I'm interpreting the listings correctly but I couldn't find one.
The letters before the 063 are a date code. That bearing was manufactured in March 1990. I think your idea of talking to a crank rebuilding specialist is the correct one. If you can find one that does metal spraying there is a possibility that the thrust face could be recovered using that process and ground back to original spec.
Crankshaft failures were the end of many D9G's and H's. I'll bet that you can find a machine shop that can fix that for you.
Got to digging in my D9G parts book and found the following description for a 6N1652 bearing... "0.025 oversize and 0.025 undersize bearing for rebored cylinder block crankbore and undersize crank journals" Apparently nothing to do with thrust dimension. 0.025" = 0.63mm There is a 0.050 undersize bearing but that is for crank journal diameter only. Not sure why an oversize rebore block would be needed but suspect maybe that thrust bearing might become loose in the block.
I have always had concern about having the machine shop push a plug through the bore to ensure it is not damaged when there have been crank issues.
I did some digging as well. Basically there is a total of 0.050" available on crank journals. If the block is not damaged you can go either 025" or 050" undersize on the crank journal diameter and get bearings to fit. However if a bearing has spun and the block bores need machining oversize then you only get one choice of undersize on the crank journals, 025". Also, nothing on thrust washers other than standard.
Forgot to post source of 6N1652/MB2603AL25 bearing.... I'd check with source to make sure it is the 0.025 over and under bearing 6N1652 and not just an 0.025 journal undersize. My after market catalog is not all that clear. https://www.machinerytrader.com/parts/construction-equipment/search?partnum=MB2603AL25&pst=starts Here's another source that says they have a 1N4335 in stock??? http://www.bigironpartsllc.com/search.php?part=1N4335
For an engine of this size, age, and value, would it not be possible to get a custom bearing made? I assume from this thread you think something with one or more thicker thrust faces would be good enough? I found this... http://www.kingbearings.com/
Thanks for the info guys. So from inspecting the engine more I have come to these conclusion. In its life it has thrown number one rod through the left and right of the block. It has been welded up, very beautifully if I would say. The block looks like it had spun mains in its life. The block mains have been welded up and rebored. I'm gonna say at one point stock then .025 over. The crank is .025 under on the mains, we haven't gotten a rod she'll out. But as it is atm the bearings are pretty much as beautiful as they could be both mains and rods. The crank journals are perfect also. The play is the min in the book specs.for the main caps aND rods. We're 99% sure the thrust failed due to the failed tq converter forcing it forwards. We found a shop in Texas that said they would submerged arc weld it and re grind it stock. We're waiting for a bid from them. I have a few other shops in California getting back to me. We are tempted to low power nickle tig it and grind it with our lathe and tool post grinder. So we can get a few more jobs out of this Frankenstein engine and buy a rebuilt short block. Or find a better block to build.
Just how bad is the thrust? I'm limited to D9G spec. information which shows an end clearance of 0.012 to 0.019" new and up to 0.035 permissible. Flanged bearing half length of 3.670''
We had a wopping .130 play in it. The specs ypu listed are the same for the h. I just spoke with a diesel machine shop in California that said they will weld it up and re grind it to spec for 1200.00 We're gonna drop this crank and get it boxed up this week ans have it shipped out.
That's pretty bad alright. Who in California is in line for the job?
i've rebuilt two D9G engines and I seem to remember the thrust bearings on that engine are only on the main bearing cap. Is that correct? Are there pins on the cap to hold the from and rear bearings? On one of those engines the thrust was also partially crushed but we caught it before it damaged the crank. I also seem to remember there was a company in Colorado who could hard chrome the cranks back to standard and they guaranteed their work a couple of times.
Quality diesel of west Sacramento.
You are correct the thrust bearing is a flanged half shell lower bearing on #7 journal. The inserts are located by tabs (no dowels). The bearing cap is dowel located to the block. I'm thinking the shop in California, Sacramento area is an outfit named "Chrome Craft" or something like that but could also be something in the LA area. I would think hard chrome would be the preferred repair. OK, just now read it is Quality Diesel in Sacramento. I've not heard of them, could even be a rename of the place I mentioned. Been awhile.
This one is a half shell that has the bearing and thrusts cast as one peice. It fits on the cap. There are no pins to hold them I'm place. I have seen the site for the company doing the chrome coatings of the cranks. We are really tempted to have that done. Seems like a smart idea. Any idea on the cost of such service ?
I'll try look up chrome craft. I agree chrome would seem to be the best option.
This is a somewhat of the off the wall idea but if getting the engine back to working condition "So we can get a few more jobs out of this Frankenstein engine and buy a rebuilt short block." How about this: Could you make new thrust washers to get end play back close to "standard" limits. Then replace the lower main bearing with one that does not have the thrusts made one piece to it? I know it would be a bit of a bodge repair but if you were only looking at a few hundred hours use it might work. I hate to think what the shipping costs for a D353 will be. Not like it will fit in a flat rate box from the PO!
That is what I was thinking, too. Unless the crank thrust face has turned into a bearing shaver and there is nobody local who could clean it up.
Yes. It is still Chrome Craft.... I'm pretty sure that's who Cat uses for their stuff so might be pricey. http://chromecraftreman.com/
We thought about grinding down and counter sink bolting on a wear surface back to original specs. We have a lathe that can swing it and a good tool post grinder. But it all sounds iffy when you have to take the machine out on jobs and rely on it not failing. This situation has already done a number on wearing the con bearings unevenly. We will throw a new set of besrings in it also. we want to find a better engine when we can afford to but would still like to keep this engine as a spare in the shop incase we ever get stuck. Knowing it's fixed proper is peace of mind. The welded up block is worrysum enough. We might just try to locate a good block with a standard set of mains and build one our selves or just buy a reman. Shipping is not to bad via sea freight. We brought over a new set of tracks from Oklahoma and it was about 2k total the move them.
Shoot I have to get back to another shop on monday. They said they have a few good d353 cranks laying in their wearhouse they would sell. Maybe we could just score a crank.
If you could score a good crank (straight & standard size main/rod journals) that would be probably the quickest and most cost-effective solution. I may also have some documentation regarding crank inspections and tolerances in respect of straightness, etc, if you're interested.
Thats the thought I have been having. I know this block was welded up and I can only hope they changed the crank out. I would really appreciate the info on how to measure it. Would you happen to know where they stamp the part number on the crank? I'm trying to locate it before I reach out to the shop with the cranks. Thanks.
If it threw a leg out of bed then I'm as sure as I can be that the crank would have been toasted, the big end that locked up would most certainly have been totally welded to the crank. In those circumstances even a regrind wouldn't be likely to put it right, As regards where the Part Number is marked on the crank - no idea, maybe OM could come up with something.
Gary, I sent you a message. Did you receive it..?
Nige, I've always wondered why the D353 had a lot of crankshaft problems. I have to wonder if it's because those engines lasted for so long and were rebuilt several times in their lifetime that metal fatigue was the ultimate cause of failure, and not really a design problem. I know a lot of them were worked around the clock in mines before the D10 came along.
Should be raised number on one of the rod throws. Latest would be a 2P2800
So the crank is still in the block. It's stripped down except for the bellhousing. We had to order a better puller to get the governer timing gear off. So far we found all the pistons are cracked. Number one cylinder has a big split in it. I'm guessing they ran the engine hot with poor fuel pressure or bad injectors or a bad pump. It's odd because the block was welded on number one cylinder in the past. I'm thinking the issue with the fuel was not corrected? We also found #4 and #5 on the head have cracked from the injector hole to the exhaust valve seat. The spacer plate is also bad on #4. It just started to attack the block. This things a train wreck. :/ I'm glad we ignored all advice of local businesses to "just run it"
An outfit in Portland OR. had 2 D-353 take out industrial motors for sale a while back. Bob
We have been looking at a few. Thanks for the heads up.
Keep an eye on Government Liquidation for engines. Don't see any right now but I've seen several low hour D353 engines sell there. http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/search?cmd=results&fromsearch=true&words=engines