Decided to get into removing the clutches, and while I'm at it need to have the lift cylinders rebuilt. Drained the hydraulics, then removed the seat, battery and down to the hydraulics and linkage. The good think is most things are 9/16 of 3/4, the bad, is some of the 9/16 bolts have very little room and can only use the short wrench. Did manage to lock 2 wrenches together to get me some more leverage .
As others have said, its best to get everything out of the way, but I had to try and do some without removing all. Still need to drain the lube, and have already dropped wrenches and had to retrieve. Doesn't look like the piston moves the arm much at all, maybe 1 inch at most. The break band looks brand new (never saw a new one) because there is a good 1/4 to 3/8 pad on it
Removed lines and the front pin came out easy, but neither of the rear pins wants to move. Have remove the bolt which does thru the back side. May be another one of those need lots of heat
What kind of tool(s) would be used to gain leverage on smaller bolts removal? Just looking at the 9/16 on the clutch cylinder, space is limited
Looking at the manual for clutch rebuild and I can see right now I don't have the tools for it. May be able to figure something out, but right now still need to get them out. The bolts on both sides have very little room to get a wrench on them, except for the outside ones by removing a plug so a socket can be used. The issue with both is the machine needs to be moved FWD/REV to gain access to each bolt. The ones on the inside can only be turned by using a straight 3/4 wrench. The boxed end has to be straight because even a slight normal angle of the standard wrench reduces the available room Anyone have any suggestions?
Both panels off Cylinder and brake band bracket removed
Got the left side brake band disconnected, now need to lift the blade and chain it off the ground. Removed the outside plugs with 3/4 impact to get and outside bolts. Need my backhoe to move the dozer fwd/rev to loosen all the bolts. Problem is I loaned the BH to a friend and now the battery's are dead, so have to go get 2 new bats. Two of the bolts snapped off on the left side cylinder. Oh goody more fun
Quote from CAT for 100% replace disk and plates is $1375 each side (parts 525, labor 850). Would be less if plates can be reused, I doubt it, but hope to find a way to get it done cheaper
Try here for steering clutch parts... http://www.steeringclutch.com/
Thanks will have a look. Maybe once I get them out I might be able to figure out how to rebuild myself. Looking at the manual I'm just not sure I have the tools to do the deed, but will see
I use a hydraulic jack under a track pad grouser to move forward or back. Moves slow, so you can put it right where you want it. Either at the sprocket, or the idler.
That doesn't seem like a bad price. I had the steering clutches rebuilt in my 931B with dry clutches and it was close to $3500 a side CAD!
That sounds like a good idea, I was thinking of using my backhoe, but a jack will do it slower. Will use the backhoe to pic the blade up and then chain off to keep it off the ground. I've going to try and use a pipe wrench on the lift cylinders nut then just take the rod in for rebuild. Waiting on buddy which has a 4 footer that will let me use it
I guess its not really that bad, and not taking into account what my time is worth, and way past what the dozer is worth by now. Bought $4500 Motor rebuild $6500 Clutches $2750 Cylinders $200 guessing and could probably do my self, just getting the nut off/on the end maybe Misc $300 Total 14,250 and I have a good dozer, just guessing thats about all its worth
What's the undercarriage like? That probably determines value more than anything but if it is better than 50% and the rest is repaired it, I'd think it would be around a 20K dozer.
The undercarriage is at least 80% if not closer to 100. Would need to know the specs, but sprockets, pads, grousers all look great. Oh forgot, also going to replace some hydraulic lines, so there is more money. They are not leaking but real old and brittle
Hey sled dog, the manual states to keep two bolts in spaced across then remove when lifting out. My question is there is very little room and just how is it possible, or more so how did you remove yours?
I'm not sure what you're asking. I take all the bolts out, bevel gear side, and final side. Sling around the hardware on the top of the brake band, then lift it out
Cat actually has straight box end steering clutch wrenches...
I have several 3/4 wrenches, I can heat one up and straighten it out The bolt thing is written in the manual, but figured just keep removing bolts until there all out and lift. I'll get it done, just going to take me longer
Got em out, and using the jack made it easy to align
Once last bolt was removed lifted them out Anyone know the thickness of the disc and steels are? Also the brake band?
Andy called a few days ago and said (in short) there is nothing wrong with the clutches. Will be sending them back later. So now its either the torque converter (TC) or transmission. I'm thinking TC because there has been no metal found in filters/screens, and pressures are good. There was also next to no heat increase during a stall test Would really like to figure this out and not just keep taking things apart
Guy How it going, do you have it back to in stalked, sam
Not yet, but called Andy yesterday and said they should have them shipped back soon
That is a good deal of work , one thing is to get the band a just ed to be right . I did not when I reinstalled mine , the ajustment bolt on the new brake was not enough , wating for spring to do a better job , and go tight it up, have fun .
Picked the clutches up today, hope to get to work on re-install soon
Started back on the reinstall and then remembered 2 bolts where snapped off on the left side hydraulic pistons. Welded a washer and nut as done before which didn't work this time. Couldn't get enough heat transfer I think. So took a grinder and cleaned up my mess, then drilled the bolts thru. Unable to find my easy outs so need to get some more. Worst comes to worst I can drill the hole thing out and use a longer bolt and nut.
Got the studs out and retapped the holes Have installed the clutches but just a few bolts on each end except one. Trying to figure out how to release the clutch so it can be turned to align the bolts holes. Tried to use a port-a-power but its to long. Will post pics later
Install process
Need an idea of how to get the second clutch bolts installed Need to rotate the sprocket on one side only to align bolt holes, or work clutch (20 ton maybe) so inner/outer will move. My 3 ton forklift won't lift one side using the rops. Could try the 416 but it may not do it either. Looking for ideas
Not sure what you mean by second clutch bolts? When I did the steering clutches on mine everything turned rather easily, didn't need anything special. It was a few years ago but seems we got all the outer bolts in first and then turned the whole thing to get the inner bolts. Trans. in neutral everything should free wheel. Had the machine blocked up. I can't recall exactly but I think the 2nd side required turning both sides once the 1st bolt was in. I think we lined all the holes up before putting the bolts in and then turned everything to get the bolts on top so they could be tightened.
I would put a block in front of the right track then put the jack on the back of the left track and jack till two bolt holes line up, put the bolts in then back off jack remove block and continue to jack left track till you get all the bolts in. good luck Bob
The right side is attached on both sides, so the trans cannot be turned. The track could be turned on left side if its raised off the ground. It would be easy to move with it blocked up Blocking might work if I installed the inner first and not the outer (outer holes move faster, larger diameter), but all the strain will be on one bolt when block is removed. Guess I'm going to have to raise the left side. I'm on gravel and the grousers are about 2 inches high and track will droop. I know my 955 could lift and push the rops enough to tilt it, but takes more to move it. Think I'll see if the 416 can do it
The whole point is one side turns the other don't the bolt holes line up . Remove the block both sides move, But your zoo your monkeys carry on. Bob
Took the most time to get the BH in position, gave it a slight nudge, then about 10 minutes and set it back down. If it didn't start raining I would have got all the bolts in. Just wait for another dry day, but will be a bit colder
Seems like you made it more complicated than it needed to be. You could have lifted the front with the blade and blocked it. Then used a hyd. jack and blocked the back of the machine or vice/versa. Pushing on the ROPS with another machine is probably pretty far down the list for most people.
Guess to each their own, figured the machine didn't weight much and the rops should be able to handle the load, and it did with no issue. Not sure I would try it if it was a much larger machine, but even the rops on a larger machine should be built to handle a roll over Lifting the blade wouldn't have helped because the cylinders are disconnected. At any rate 30 minutes total and was back working on it.
I know that you mean about the bolts , I had my cat up on blocks , used a come along to turn the track , axcess hole next to the sprocket , need a super long extinction , to get past the track . One thing I did learn , was the new brake liner was very stiff , and I need to read visit mine . good luck , sam.
Clutches are back in, brake bands attached. Bought a Kent Moore 3 inch flat boxed end adapter to torque inside, and it was no go. The thing just barely fits on the bolt head and after turning slightly the thing cannot be removed. Tried a few different things and nothing worked. So used 2 boxed wrenches and tightened them down good. Was able to torque all the outside bolts. Previous install stripped one of the outside holes, so one less bolt. Anyone know what the orange silicone looking adhesive is? Its on all the surfaces and appears to have been applied with a brush
To update, ordered 1540591 Loctite sealant, red Had to ask in another tread to get info and was very helpful
That's a Hi-tack gasket sealant. I thought you were looking for a brushed on orange product?
I am and I asked in another thread because of no response here and they mentioned this stuff HeavyEquipmentForums
I'm thinking you are referring to the sealant used on the porous surfaces of castings. Have not been able to determine exactly what was used but "glyptal" seems to fit the closest description.
Had not heard of it before, but I'm seeing a varnish or paint The orange stuff I'm seeing feels similar to silicone but thinner, maybe. It looks to have been brushed on. The openings where the clutches are have 1/4 plates that bolt over them and this stuff was on the matting surfaces. Like in this pic
OK, that's some kind of gasket sealer, not the coating used on castings.
Glyptal is used as an insulating paint for electrical applications. I have dry clutches but just used Permatex Ultra black silicone for the clutch covers because it has the highest oil resistance. I think things like final drives often use a special brush on sealer instead of a gasket.
My D3B has the orange sealant on most of the covers including the clutch covers instead of gaskets also. I assume it is a Cat product. Seems to work well.
Going to try the stuff ordered that cmark listed, think it will work
Still waiting on sealer but removed lift cylinder rods. Use a 36 inch pipe wrench and hydraulic jack on left side, and used backhoe for pressure on right to break cylinder nuts loose. Used 3/4 inch impact and 1 1/2 inch socket to break bolt free. Looks like bolt gets re-torqued to 800 ft lb +/- 80
Looking up the lift cylinder reseal kit I'm finding 8T1372 and 7X2746 in SIS which I think are the same. It does list as "contact dealer" so there is probably a new number. Can someone verify? Also looking at replacing seals in clutch valve group 5G0706, parts are: 4F7391 O ring 6F4855 O ring 3H5077 Lip seal 2P2975 O ring Will also replace the damaged test port plug 9S4182 and 3J7354 O ring
Regarding your seal kits. 8T-1372 updates to 7X-2752 which updates to 185-6588, which in turn updates to 246-5914. 7X-2746 also updates to 7X-2752, and you can guess the rest .......... The attached publication is referenced in relation to the updates.
Thanks Nige
Installed the seals on cylinders and the new bearing (wide plastic piece that is on rod end) has a gap and doesn't completely close even when using my hand to push. It should be tighter in the cylinder but still wonder if this could be an issue.
If it's the ring with a diagonal split, I don't think it's a big deal if there is a bit of a gap. It doesn't seal anything. I think it's to prevent the piston from damaging the inner bore.
Yes that's what it is, and was thinking the same thing, but since its aftermarket, wanted to check. Thanks
Need 800 FT LB Pulled my torque wrench out and it goes to only 600, need to figure out how to get 800 +/- 80 If I find an extension to extend length will use formula L x TQ / L + Ext = Wrench setting L= length Tq= Desired torque Ext= length of extension Either that of something like track bolts, torque to starting value then turn 30 degrees or so
Might have found the answer looking at track bolts. Center bolt appears to be 7/8-UNF (14 threads per inch) Shows 752 +/- 36 Turn torque = pre torque 480 ft lb then 1/3 more https://www.west-trak.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Undercarriage-Handbook-low-res.pdf
The 3/4 impact got it off but not making it the additional 60 degrees, only 30 to 35 degrees
Took cylinders to Froedge in Tompkinsville, where I had my 955 lift cylinders repaired and let them torque. All good now, going to put them back together now
Cylinders installed, clutch covers installed. Going to rebuild the hydraulic clutch valves next
Got into the clutch valves and there was a part change, so I'm looking for a O-ring The part on far right (5G-0255) was changed from have only one O-ring, to having a O-ring (item 8) and also lip seal (item 9). During this part change they also change the size of item 8 so the new O-ring is to thin. I've tried NAPA and no good, plan to try Froedge maybe tomorrow
Item 8 - 4F-7391 O-Ring is readily available from your local friendly Cat dealer for the wallet-bursting price of $2.00 ea.......... Item 9 - 6F-4855 O-Ring ipriced at $1.12 Item 10 - 3H-5077 Lip Seal priced at $5.82. Parts for both sides of the machine (2 of each of the above) total less than $20.
Thanks Nige, but I have all the parts, its just the O-ring (direct from CAT) is not correct for mine. Also have to say I messed up on the item numbers listed, but got it correct in the pic. The O-ring I need is the prior one used before the NEW item 9 was used. I don't have the part number and neither does CAT. Once they moved to the newer housing, all former part numbers where deleted/removed.
I just built the same one. Seems I used a o ring for a flat face cat fitting. Don’t recall the number.
O rings
Are you referring to the previous valve, the one that didn't have the roller bearing on the end of the spool. In that's the case your number 9 would be an item 5 #8F9206 seal.
No, my "current" valve is NOT the one in the pic above. The one I have does not have a lip seal (item 10), it only has one O-ring (item 9) which is currently 6F4855 and is to small
EDIT: Sorry I was getting confused between the O-Ring seal that the rod slides through, not #6 which is the seal between the head and the barrel. It's listed as #5 on this illustration, 8F-9206 Part Number. The measurements of the 8F-9206 are 12.4mm inside diameter by 2.6mm material thickness
My mistake I was looking at 17 for some reason.
Guess I missed something, 12.4mm is 1/2 inch but I think the original O-ring ID is more then 1/2 (12.4mm)
Does your control valve look like the illustration I posted above.?
No, it looks like the one in my post 62 above, but has one less seal
Can you measure the i nside diameter of the existing seal and the material thickness.?
Will do that tomorrow and post
Try a 2J0157.or a dash 208. Bob
#15 in the attachment.
Yes, number 15
Here's confirmation. The 5G-0225 (not 5G-0255 as you posted above) services to a series of new parts, one of which is the 2J-0157.
Cool beans, thanks
Turns out I had one old style and one newer style clutch valve. Both have new seals and have been reinstalled. Next question: How to adjust brakes. My manual list Rod A to be 38.4 inch (rod between brake housing and pedal pivot) Rod B 13.11 (rod brake band inside clutch compartment) Pedal Rods 16.85 (4 each) Manual is for dry clutches and I have wet (floating in oil and no spring inside compartment for disengagement)
Also list to adjust brake band so there is 3.9 to 4.4 inch of free pedal travel
Picked up this info along the way.....
This helps, thanks Oh and mine has a dip stick for the clutch/final drive
Could you ask the guy what is meant by "slack off brake adjustment until you get correct pedal travel"? IS that additional turns on the brake adjustment as in more then 1.5 turns?
Can't ask as I believe that came from "Bob, Ontario" who is no longer with us. I believe he was referring to back off the threaded adjustment of the linkage rods to get the 0.027" clearance at the cam/roller.
Guess I'll give it a go, and can always fiddle with it later if there is an issue
I'm thinking CAT did it to me AGAIN My throttle cable had a lot of slop, so looked up the part 5G2315 and bought one. The entire cable is a bit longer then the one which was one it, but that was not an issue. The problem is from where the nuts which hold the cable to the end of the cable is about 2 inches shorter Think they changed the cable original part and also changed the brackets which would put the ends closer Started bending the holder bracket to reduce the gap and have it down to about an inch. Think I'm going to have to make one, then cut off and weld up a fix
Old Magnet posted in other thread, saying to me Yes I'm cheap but now we know its a different cable then one listed. Called Boyd CAT parts and they had less info then the folks here, so was waste of time. Another mentioned to have one made at a marine or other cable shop. Sounds like a plan
Well, got her started up and used the hydraulics. No leaks on lift cylinders, but NOW I have a new leak on the angle cylinder. Ordered seal kits for them and the tilt cylinder.
All cylinders rebuilt so no leak so far (knock on wood)
All back together and clutches engage, and disengage, but brakes are not holding/stopping. Adjusted rods to shortest as they will go, and it helps, but not good. Starting to think the original adjustment was not correct either, but was working. Wonder if the original setup was tighter then 1.5 turns out on the brake bands?
Here's the thread I started several years ago. Loosen the brake adjuster until you get enough free play at the pedal. To test if the brakes are dragging go on a slight downhill incline and the machine should free role. It should also free role if you drive in 2nd gear on flat ground and shift to neutral. HeavyEquipmentForums
This is my thinking as well. The previous setup was probably less then 1.5 turns on the brake band. Going to measure the brake rod just to see. You had to loosen more then 1.5 turns to get the free pedal distance, I'm not having the issue, mine is a bit more. Has been difficult to measure so having trouble there. I'm wondering if the clutch pistons will self bleed? When first fired up it felt like they where not releasing. Kept pushing peddles several times and there doing better. Need to find the other D3C adjustment posted in the other thread, I'm using the B
Found it and will add to this thread later. Have found differences in rod lengths. My break rod when shortened as much as it can is about 38.5 inches. The dry brake rod list to adjust to 38.4 inch, so my rod is longer then for the dry. The D3C spec does not list a measurement for the rod. It does show that the connection point up at the peddle it shows 4.29 inch gap between firewall and pivot, yet I have only 3.25 inch space. Will need to make a sketch to explain, more later
The D3C that Nige posted in another thread
As with my 955 I think my D3 is a mix of B and C, and looks more C model My thoughts and place chime in with yours The key to adjusting the brakes is the length of rod 5. Adjusting clutch housing rod C if not done correctly can be compensated by rod 5. Same goes for pedal brake rod 2 (dimension M). My rod 5 when fully reduced to its shortest dimension is about 38.4 inches which is what rod should be adjusted for a B model. There is no preset adjustment for the C model. Looking as thought I will need to take a die and cut more threads in the rod to make it shorted in order to get the 4 inch to firewall. The brake band adjust should also be 2.5 turns, and this I can see as to why. There is more pedal travel with the adjustment which allows the brake band to start to tighten without actually making contact with the drum
Removed rod 5 then measured, looks like I need to be able to reduce to rod to attach at 37.5 inches minimum. This is also before backing off brake band adjustment another 1 full turn (to achieve 2.5)
Bob/Ont was the guru on these smaller Cats. Your machine is a 1986 the same as mine. They still made the B's for a couple more years so it's not a mix of B and C parts. Forget about the linkage measurements in the manual. I had all that and it's a royal PIA. That's why Bob said to take the pin out of the linkage at the back, tighten brake bands, shorten brake rod as short as possible to get pin in and then loosen brake adjuster to get pedal free travel. This guarantee's the free play is at the brake band and not in the linkage. You also need to adjust the rod for the steering clutch valves as is explained. I had the steering valves rebuilt because there were flat spots on the rollers that wouldn't allow the valves to travel the full distance. This is a common problem and need a press to change the rollers.
I can tighten the band and still cannot shorten the rod enough so it will just fit, I'm still moving it forward to attach.
If you hook the rod up at the back with the front of the rod under the pedals free, can you adjust it there so the rod is short enough? You probably have to adjust it then take the pin out at the back, assemble the front and then put the pin at the back in. Is the arm at the back the pin goes into going back all the way? Maybe someone had been playing around with the brakes in the past. The big parts that bolt on (Part 9, section B-B) could have been taken apart and put back together wrong or possibly be put on backwards (opposite sides). One of mine was assembled wrong in the past (or both were set up for the same side) but I was still able to get it adjusted so it works properly. Otherwise I would have had to take it off, take it apart and put it back together the proper way. Bob advised if I could get the linkage hooked up and follow the same adjustment procedure it should be fine. It was quite a few years ago but if I recall it brought the lever the pin goes in further forward and I had to stretch the return spring at the back of the machine longer to connect it. The other side (correct side) the spring was only slightly extended at rest. The spring on the backwards one was extended approx. 1/2" at rest. Also possible that the arms on section F-F have been played with. Just one the pitfalls with buying used equipment I guess.
No, its still to long. In post 97 pic where it shows the 4 inch space, the pivot is moved to 3.2 inch closer to firewall (with adjuster 1.5 turns out) in order to attach. This gives we less room for brake. I can tighten the adjuster again but I'm short by .75 inch and don't see how I will get that much I get what your saying and took pics so it would go back together the same way. You cant place them on backwards they won't line up, I did look at it when assembling I'm going to go back into SIS to see if something shows up
Checked SIS and it shows part number 5G0371 for the brake rod but doesn't list how long it is. Tightened the adjuster down tight and connected it to drum side (also spring holding it to rear), there is about 1 inch from pivot and rod end. ********************************* Your right Dave Looked close at the first pic in post 2 and the one which is on the right side has paint on the lever, the one that's in there now has no paint, and the one on the left does. Time to take it back apart, thanks again
Great, glad I could help. I did the first one and it went great. Got everything bolted up to do the other one and it was way off. I thought about taking everything back apart and taking the assembly apart to retime it (for lack of a better word) but after consulting Bob decided if it works I'll leave it. Just have to remember one side is different than original. Machine steers great and brakes don't drag.
Just got them switched and the pedal feels firm so think I should have brakes. The rods are now out past even but still there. If it wasn't so hard to remove the clutch plates I would remove them and lengthen the rods under them, that would give me some more thread. Will adjust for pedal travel tomorrow, I'm tired
Its working and brakes work much better. Have adjusted peddles to about 4 inches. Peddles are higher then first time and could back off some more but need to move it around some then decide
If it free rolls you should be good.
Well the left works great, the right no so much. Fwd/Rev press left brake and left track stops and we turn. Press right brake and both sides stop at low idle. At higher rpm with right brake ON it will start to turn but slowly. Sounds like I'm not getting full engagement on left clutch. The left clutch valve is the newer design, right is older. Need to get the pressure gauge out
Looks like I need a new clutch valve on right side (this is an old style) 400 psi on left and next to nothing on the right
Maybe it can be rebuilt for less money?
Just talking out loud in case I'm missing something I replaced all the o-rings while it was out. This one was originally on the left side and the test port (in my other thread) on the clutch piston was buggered up and couldn't test before. This was part of the reason I decided to pull the clutches. I was working but not very well before. I checked the Hyd tank and bevel gear and don't see any changes so assuming its not the clutch piston
Was the roller replaced? If it was only ran a little a slight leak at the piston might not be noticeable. You could take the brake band support bolt out and look to see if there's any oil in the case.
Which roller? If you mean like the roller on end of valve, there isn't one. Its old style like in post 69 Guess it could be a slight leak at the piston but figured I would see some pressure but gauge stays at zero. Other side shows 400 psi Called Boyd CAT and original right valve is 5G0145, and has been changed to 1468034 They have one in stock for $1,560.00 Did some searching and there is none on the net except maybe avspare and supply.parts but those places don't look good. Also no price listed
Also I have a dipstick in the bevel gear and clutch section. Its 3 compartments but they all flow together.
Roller #13 in post 62. You said that's what you have not what Nige showed in post 69. It needs to be pressed out. I forgot you had wet brakes.
I have one of each type, and the roller is on the left side. Have old style with no roller on the right. I'm going to remove the hydraulic line going from valve down to piston and connect gauge direct to the line.
Someone replaced it with an old one before you? I'd try to find a proper used one. I think the pressure comes from a common pump.
I would like to find a used one. Did one search and traxx used parts wants 1450.00 for a used one At any rate it is the valve, with gauge direct connection I'm getting about 125 psi on a 3500 psi gauge
That's a crazy price for a used one. You could try a place like Finney or maybe Offroad Parts that Nige has mentioned in other posts.
Have check some and will look into those also if I can find them Did find Finney
A 5G8121 (RH) valve is $483.60 new at Regal.
Part number isn't correct, but part number has changed several times according to dealer. Got a link?
That's for a later D3C valve which you said your later version LH unit was??? This would be a RH match.
OK, mine shows up as the new style (not the original) when looking at SIS. I sent an email the CAT to ask them if its the smae/similar and will work
Looked in SIS and CAT on line and it shows as indirect replacement but no drawing
Later D3B and D3C look to use the same valve OM listed but could have been upgraded to a newer part number. Cat seems to do that a lot. Price is definitely more reasonable.
This is the mate to the valve Nige posted in post #77
Looking at what I could find 5G-8121 is for a higher serial number than the OP's. I think the correct one is 5G-0145. Might have to scroll up to the top of the page. It shows the different options. Maybe Old Magnet can price that one. https://avspare.com/caterpillar/sebp1252/sebp1252030/#SEBP12520301
Unable to clarify and don't know if the ports are in the same configuration (in/out/return). Hope it could work and appears from avspare drawings that they look alike, but doesn't list everything
That fits your serial number. There's some other parts diagrams on avspares that might show more or maybe someone with SIS could post more details.
Here's the info on the D3C valves. or the 5G0145
5G0145 like I posted above fits AllDodge's serial number 27Y3918. 5G8121 starts at serial 27Y4543. Maybe below will show enough. It will go bigger if you click on the small pic. https://avspare.com/caterpillar/valve/5g0145/
5G0145 valve
Thanks OM. Would you have a price for it for AllDodge?
Already there in post #131 Seems the stem o-ring didn't match to the LH valve currently installed, that's why I'm suggesting the 5G8121
Sorry OM I missed the price is the same. Should the 5G8121 valve be an upgrade/interchangeable with 5G0145 that should have came with the machine originally? Pricing seems pretty reasonable compared to what AllDodge found.
Morning and thanks guys. I sent a request to spare parts and they also are showing the 8121 number. There cheapest is 700 for the 5G0145 and 734 for the 5G8121 I'll buy it from Regal
Regal doesn't have either one of the parts.
The 2 other places found at spare parts have a 2 week lead time (coming from Japan) and then could be more. Bought the $1700 part from CAT, coming from Corbin and should have it tomorrow Back out to the machine and take it back apart
What's wrong with the valve you have? There's not much to it. It is a variable pressure control valve. Are you sure you have the stroke adjusted right?
As a non-expert I believe its so worn that even the O-rings are not sealing it up. I replaced all the o-rings and nothing is leaking outside, it must be doing it inside. Connected the gauge on the output port direct and slowly moving the peddle and watching the piston move in/out andd I cannot get more then about 125 psi. This tells me its leaking internally
Can you set up the valve to check with compressed air and observe leakage? Did you check the springs? Should be a spec somewhere for the spring rate.
Dave, I do have 2 different valves but its not the real old one with just the plunger, both have the rollers, and I did remove during rebuild. The housing is a bit larger on the newer one. The one with the larger housing may be the 146 part. Just hooked the valve up to compressor and its leaking bad. Constant leak with rod full out and get worst as it goes in Just noticed my compressor slowed down and stopped, think I need to fix it. Hope its the motor and not the compressor, but didn't smell any smoke
Regal couldn't get the valve? Nothing on Machinery Trader parts? I would think there's a few D3B/C or 931B/C sitting in wreckers yards. Price from Cat is crazy but if your machine steers properly won't have to worry about it again for a long time.
Talked to the parts guy at Regal and gave him all 3 part numbers and still no good. Yep the cost is up there but agree shouldn't have anymore troubles with that area. Only have the other 200 parts which are still 50 years old
Check the dismantled machines list on Machinery Trader... https://www.machinerytrader.com/lis...hines/list/manufacturer/caterpillar/model/d3b
I already ordered the part
Part could be coming in today and got to thinking about the difference in old/new. They are different sizes so making adjustment for the rod won't be that much, but the mount in a bracket. The bracket are different sizes, so the chances will also need another bracket is high
New control valve 1468034 looks just like one replaced on left side. They have 1/8 NPT on top/bottom and AN6 ORB plugs on sides. Don't understand why and assume they just fill with oil from hydraulic system Will need to shorten rod about 2 inches Will need different bracket 8Y4021 which was able to get used from Boyd CAT for $27
That valve is from a much later D3C, D3C LGP, XL Series lll Tractor. s/n 6SL, 7XL, 9TS Machine. They have a lot more involved valve plumbing.
Good to know, guess I'm just lucky it also works on mine
The new valve was first used on later serial numbers of D3B's in 1986, the same year as the machine in question. I posted that earlier in this thread but AD decided to go with a newer valve to match the other one that was replaced. It needs a different bracket and I don't know if it will require different linkage arms. Maybe it's an improved valve so is worth converting everything over?
Sorry if I misunderstood a comment, but I have not been able to get any other valve except the one I got. The original, and 2 other revisions were no where to be found, and I got the last one of this type in KY. I didn't know it was the same as the left until it arrived
OM gave a part to match the other one that had been replaced. I would think it's an improvement. It just sucks that's it's not a direct replacement.
Don't know what to say Parts that came back from request from spareparts.com were at a minimum of 3 week wait from USA sources, and upon review they had some bad reviews. One in FL and other in WA, and read the FL takes paypal only and not credit cards which was a big flag for me. Got another offer from Russia and was not going to take that one So I looked for 5G0145, 5G8121 and one other CAT gave me (forget the number but was for D5 and larger tractor) and 146-xx and decided to buy the $1600 part Once new part came in found out I need a different bracket. CAT found a used one for $27. Hope this all works because not fixing it means I have about a $12,000 paper weight
It should all be fixable. Someone made the other new valve work so this one should to.
8Y4921 Bracket Valve installed left side Cut the rod down about 2 inches and threaded rod All back together and placed dozer on a hill and in neutral it rolled a little but not much. So loosened the brake another half turn to let it roll easy. Turns much quicker Will need to run a bit more but still has some issues in second and third gear, but is better. Probably just going to live with it. It does fine in first, just 2 and 3 does not have any power. Hey its a farm dozer
2nd and especially 3rd need lots of throttle to have any kind of power. Remember it's a powershift with torque converter not direct drive like an AG tractor. I usually downshift to 1st when digging unless it's loose topsoil or something. I've got some rubber to keep lines form rubbing together too. It looks like only 2 bolts could be used for the new bracket? Even on flat ground if you drive in 2nd at full speed it should coast a bit if you pop into neutral. Glad it's working.
It could be I'm not giving it enough throttle, will need to work with it some more, thanks for the help
Just for curiosity here's how those later valves are plumbed in later applications...
Your not kidding when you said there is a lot going on. Pressure comes in on the same point but the rest is all different
I agree that it’s worth 20 all day long I paid 16500 for mine with new undercarriage but was unaware of steering clutch issue at the time I still think I got a fair deal
I wish my dry clutches looked that clean not oily though that would be bad
Hi thanks for the images of inside the drive. Wondering if you recall when you had it apart.? On the outside of the clutch cylinder in pic above, the bleed screw or bolt… mine is broke off and leaking bad, just wondering if you have any info
That's listed as a test port, I don't remember loosing it to bleed. Don't remember what the thread is, but I think it's just NPT
Ok great. Thanks for getting back to me. I will see if I can drill out and get bolt out and replace it.
I don't know how close the piston is behind the plug
Yes that’s my only worry..
Well I got the plugs out and replaced with o/m from cat.. no more leaks. Thanks for your help. Only issue I’m having now is left steering clutch isn’t locking up. Not sure if I need to bleed the air out of the 300psi system coming from transmission to the clutch cylinder. Or if I need to adjust breaks when I stepped on the breaks today on a downhill only the right track stopped. Any info on adjustments?
Check the left steering clutch valve under the seat.
The clutch should stay locked up until the clutch cylinder releases it when pedal is depressed. When pedal moves half way down the clutch cylinder disengages clutch pack. When it moves further the brake band engages. As WD mentioned check the valve and also pedal adjustment
The steering clutch valves are under the floor basically attached to the brake pedals on this machine
The pedal should engage the steering clutch almost immediately. I think there’s only like a 3 second of an inch play before you hit the steering clutch and then it takes another couple inches to fully engage the valve. You should immediately feel the clutches release, but there’s a lot going on From the moment you push that till it actually disengages the clutches if you’re engaging that pedal, then you can check at the test port that you had to fix for proper pressure. One side is working though that tells me your pump is good. It may be that your steering clutch cylinder is not adjusted well enough to disengage the clutches, there’s an adjustment on the linkages to get that set just right once you get that far though you’ll need to pull the cover off under the appropriate side To check that adjustment
Steering clutch should be fully disengaged with pedal about half way down. There is a spec. for clearance of the rollers on the valves. I think .015" but not positive. You don't want the steering clutches partially engaged with the pedals all the way up.
With some more investigating and adjustments I got it! Ended up following procedures for adjusting the brake band. Working good now. Topped up transmission oil which seems to have helped as well. Going to replace transmission filter and oil. I find it slow climbing in reverse out of a Ravine.. may just be the age of the old girl. Thanks for all the comments and help with these issues!
AllDodge I was going to try and weld a nut on those test ports (as I thought they were broke off. I ended up drilling them and trying an easy out. Worked great old owner installed grease nipples in the holes… which didn’t hold up to the mud and rocks etc. thanks for your help with figuring that’s issue out. Cheers
Reading back through this thread, it looks like the roller clearance is .027".
Wow, this thread is a real treasure trove of information. I just wanted to thank everyone who contributed all of the detailed information. I just picked up a 1981 D3B SN 27Y1185. She has steering and braking issues on the left side and I'm planning to tear into it soon. All of the great information in this thread will will be very useful!
First thing to check is the rollers on the steering clutch valves. They can get flat spots that don't allow the clutches to fully release. The pins have to be pressed out that hold them but it's an easy fix if that's the problem.
yes sir, I'm gonna spend all day looking it over tomorrow and I'll check that
Welder Dave, just as you said, I've got flat spot on my clutch valve rollers. I bought all of the parts to rebuild the valve but I hit a snag and could use a little guidance. Do you mind checking out my post over here? HeavyEquipmentForums