Hi I was wondering if there was a old cat guru that would know how hard it would be to pull the final on an old d4, also what other old d4 series would have the same final to use in it ???? Thanks all help is appreciated
Takes the serial number of the tractor to answer that question.
7u 34825
Requires hydraulic press equipment to disassemble and re-assemble. Suggest unbolting the entire final drive assembly and take it to a shop for press work. The same final drive gear 9F5224 is used on 6U6655 to 12,682, 7U12940 to 43,645 and the 955 loader 12A1 to 7360. The same final drive pinion 8H2300 is used on 6U6655-up, 7U 13,940-up and the 955 loader 12A7361-up.
I had to get the rear of the dozer up in the air to clear it to disassemble it . The splines are bevel cut so all the puller needs to do is crack it , no drawing of the sprocket . Before you ask someone to bring their puller out to you , give the sprocket a bloody great belt with a heavy hammer . Just the once , this of course after removing the lock nut , big bugger 2and 7/8 ??? got the tee shirt and the socket .Might be loose enough . You won't need the puller to replace the sprocket but you will need to tighten the nut something terrible , 10 stone on a six foot pipe . Clean the spline , both bits really well before putting them back together , I can't stress enough that reassemble needs to be right , unlike Inters Cats stay fixed if fixed right of that age . You have a really "modern one" at 34000 plus .
Wow thanks for all the info, also will I need to remove the whole carriage on the side of the cat that I pull the final, It looks as though I would need to?
Also one more thing, anybody might now where I can acquire a final and bill gear in Oregon and maybe the seal ?
Well , no . Having the track frame slid forward is more than whats needed . That would more than likely need the centre spring removed or at least slid to the other side to allow the frame to roll along the laid out tracks , this all after removing the blade . Jacking up the back allowing the crook track frame to stay on the ground is the easy way . There are about four bolts attaching the trackframe to be removed either side of the final drive outside cap . Float your blade hydraulics before trying to jack it , large log offcuts need to be stacked . You might want to do the steering clutch part of the job before you go up on the jacks if the little cog at the top is being replaced . It has a big nut on the inside . I think it can be got at without taking out the bevel gear shaft as the steering clutch slides after removing more gear , its no small job you are taking on . Be real careful with the seals , bits no matter what as they could be slow to replace .
Ok, so If don't replace that cog gear then I don't have to pull the steering clutch? Hopefully only going To replace the bull gear and final and the seal for the final.
Here is the victim in question
There are horror stories often about sprockets installed and tightened without a proper press and ended up getting ruined when they come loose. Do not be disappointed when you experience difficulties down the road if you don't believe Old Magnets advice. That was very sound advice. Your results may be different. Even with a proper puller keep the nut part way on until it pops.
another 600 kg's to jack up with the winch , won't matter much . What ever you do to tighten the sprocket it will need to be tight . I have done it my way and it worked doing 1800 hrs of work , some in rock day after day . It was impressed upon me to tighten it well . If you are going to spend big money on labour it might pay to check the pinion bearings as done once will have it done for the life left in the machine . Being a "late" model 7u it will have a 2 piece lid over the bevel gear , transmission and clutch , much easier to work with .
Wow thanks for all info, I took some time away from work and the cat to visit family, but when I get back I will get it lowboyed to our shop and get the blade and track off and jacked up into the air. For removal of the final
Epirbalex how were you able to get the sprocket right enough, did you use a press or ??
do you mean tight enough ? . I cleaned both splines spotless , fitted then tightened the nut , no press , swung on a bar fitted with pipe . Total length 6 foot . Bar I made from an axel squared and bent to fit inch drive . Its the bar that's the weak bit in the job . I put most of my weight on it close to the end . The fella who pulled my sprocket told me I needed 10 stone at 6 ' , 140 lbs at 6' is a lot of torque . It must be possible to work out the torque and use a torque multiplier , less chance of getting hurt .If you have a choice of using a proper press that not going to be over expensive use it . My job was to see why the inside seal was leaking , turned out it was the inside bearing was chopping out . The one I bought was offered with a choice of two outer shells , one a plain sided taper shell , the other had a strong lip on it . Hopefully Caterpillar had changed how that bearing sits by the time it got to you serial number as it was expensive . If you replace it and have a choice of bearing types (makers} checking the angle of the taper of the existing one against any new one as its best to keep it the same .
Ok I see, yeah I have a local car dealership that said they would press it on, the reason I'm tearing it apart is because the track will only go about 4 feet distance before it stops, fairly certain the final is missing a gear or two....
Does the other side drive alright ? . There is an inspection plate on the bottom inside where you can see the bull gear , the missing teeth will be sitting there somewhere . Could be a while before you have to worry about refitting .
Yeah the one side is fine but the other only turns a few feet and goes the other direction and stops, how big is the inspection plate ?
I shall have a look today and check its the 7u has the plate and not my D7 .
I found the plate it was coverd in mud why I didn't see it, also got it lowboyed to the shop so I'm gonna pull the plate off and have a look, do I need to pull the blade off to get the carriage free of the sprocket ?
I jacked mine up so the sprocket would clear the track frame , Left the blade in place . I am picking you will have to remove the pinion thus needing to remove the bevel gear housing lid . That's best done with the dozer level and it would be harder to change to a level job after starting a jack up .More so if yours is a one piece lid going up to under the pony motor . So blade off including push arms , jack under the front and back , sprocket will still need to be up abit to clear the chain . I think I even needed to take off the pony motor starter pulley to let the lid up being a one piece lid ,may have been another job , and the air cleaner of course . Are the bolts holding on the plate into the bullgear still able to take a spanner ?
I haven't pulled the front cover off yet, I'm really hoping I don't have to pull the clutches out because it's got rops and to get the cover off the clutches is a tough job I think, I'm gonna try and do it with out taking it off first if I can, I pulled the inspection plate and sure enough there was a tooth laying in the bottom.
Was there a lot of filings , chips of meatal in the oil ? A nice clean sharp break will determine the extent of the job and its cost in bearings and pinion replacement The tooth should be from the bullgear as you are getting about one turn of the sprocket in movement before the gap in the teeth stops it driving
A bit off thread here but I betcha I'm the only other person on HEF who knows where Akitio is.
I think it was gear off the final it looks pretty big, yeah There was a bunch of metal filings in the bottom as well
Pretty rare to take a tooth off the bull gear without buggering up the pinion to. I'd figure on going in to the steering clutch compartment.
What about the old Sherwood house in the back of the Branscombe blocks , that's mine and I've done it up a bit .
Magnet's right , time to have a look at the bevel gear housing lid and establish if its a two piece lid with the gap between the transmission and the bevel gear area . Some earlier dozers had their lids cut by band saw . It will be a much reduced job if its a two piece lid .
I believe it's a two peice lid, I'm really hoping I don't have to pull the bull gear, but if I do I guess I will...... how hard is it to find the master link on the track ? Also where is akitio ??
If the pin is like mine it will have a small hole in it holding a cone . People before me cut a small amount off the plate next to the pin to mark it , he welded his initials on a plate after he welded trackbar on all the plates as well . To remove pin move dozer till the pin is about bottom quarter rear on the sprocket , I welded bits of pipe to hold the drive to punch out the pin onto the plate , punch just abit smaller than the pin being removed . Somebody may have put a bolted joiner link on her if you are lucky .
Akitio is on the east coast , north island New Zealand , little fishing village .
Can any possibly find these any more ?? Would like 2 preferably, both track tensioners and front idler. Possibly in Oregon ?? I figure I'm gonna be tearing might as well tear the other track off as well and fix that.
Update.....
Anybody know why there is all that wear on the shaft ?
looks like the inside bearing has collapsed or just gone , how are the housings , was the bull gear wearing against one or both . Looks like the lid to the clutches and bevel gear will be off .
The bearing was there and intact but maybe some debris was rolling around inside it, the nut on the of shaft was really loose, why would I pull the lid to steering clutches ?
with the amount of metal in the oil all the bearings that oil touches will be shot . Its hard to see just what the pinion is like but I would think it would need replacing . Its better to get a matching pair of bullgear and pinion in any event .
Ok so I realized that back of the bull gear where the bearing was being held broke off so that's why it's all scared up, and the piñon looks like it's in great shape, not gonna lie only into this cat for a couple hundred bucks and all honesty it's only ever gonna be used to play around on a couple times a year don't really want to pull the steer clutches .....
Does this cat look like a wide gauge cat ?? I believe that's same as my cat, it has the same first two letter number combination as mine 7u do you guys think the final is the same as my cat ??
nobody ever wanted to pull the lid off a D4 for fun . Even if the pinion is alright the bearings have had grinder paste in them .
Found this for sale near my house what's it worth ?? Broken motor mount and leaks oil out it, Diesel engine runs good track and chain, case terra track, overall fairly worn out owner thought scrap metal price ?
Giving up on the D4? Out of the frying pan into the fire lol...
No I was just getting my final drive, and seeing what you guys thought the other cat was worth
Don't know of ANY part on that machine still available. Good luck as I see it as worse than my Allis for parts.
Ok gotcha, so I talked to the guy today and he said the front motor mount is broke off, so is that a repower or can someone fix it by welding it ?
Will have an old style Case 4 cyl in it, which is now a Cummins but I do not think much interchanges one to the other even in the early changeover years.
Got my new final, just waiting on some bearings to get here to finish up, what kind of oil should I use in the final drive ? Also I have two dip sticks one on like the front of the tranny and one like middle kind of back, what should I use in the them and how can I clean them out, diesel ??
I used 80-90 in both my '7u's , one had it in when I got it the second had 120 oil , it was possible to stand a rod up in the 120 stuff . Chap long dead now told me when these things were new 30 grade oil was used but because the finals used to get hot the D4's went to 80-90 . Out of interest how much did the inside bearing cost you . We are gouged by Caterpillar if you are not a pet contractor .
The race was 90 and the bearing I think was 200 I believe, why does my cat have 2 dip sticks on the tranny ?? I also have another good final if anybody is interested and some other random parts to sell
Correction the race was 240 dollars and the bearing was 117
comparable to what I paid with exchange rate differences early '90's
If one of the dip sticks is down by your right foot it's for an oil clutch fluid level.
Ok what should I fill it with ?
Current preferred would be 30 wt TO-4 spec (Transmission Drive Train Oil) Original would have been SAE 30 wt engine oil
Hi sorry to revamp this old thread but I was wondering how I can acquire an 2 bolt hyd flange for my cat ?