Hello, looking at buying a D5H and hoping for a little info. The dozer is a 4 hr drive so haven't went and looked at in person yet but the serial # plate isn't what I expected. The plate reads Hersteller Caterpillar USA D5H 8RC05789* 1993 I can decode some it but it just looks odd. Any help on what it is would be great. I've also got a question on a set of rails I found for it. The dozer needs an undercarriage and a local guy has a brand new set of rails. They have a sticker that reads a manufacturer date of 09-09-2016 and says DCF model #1020755 and say they are 46L SLT D5H-HD 3/4. The number stamped on the links is DCF 1-0930. He also has one new idler he believes is for a D5H. He's fairly reasonable on the price. Think he got them on a deal at an auction but not sure. Any help would be great.
A photo of the plate would help but based on Serial Number 8RC05789 was built in February 1993. Regarding the track links, the 8RC machine is listed as having one of three options; 36, 46, or 47 links. How many links are there on the current tracks.?
Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure on the number of track links. Hopefully I can go look at the machine this weekend. That does explain the 46L on the tracks I found. The owner hasn't sent very good pics. We previously had a Case 850G and have never owned a Cat machine. This dozer pretty rough and I'm a little concerned with getting in too deep on it.
That's not the original Cat data plate. This tractor was built in France and looks as though it may have ended up with a German customer seeing as the titles on the plate are in German and the fact that the tractor was originally shipped with German instructions. "Hertsteller" simply translates as "manufacturer". The customer could have been the German military for all I know. Looking at the arrangement of how the tractor was originally built it was not something standard run-of-the-mill. Sound suppression and a "Grader Arrgt" (built for fine dozing) are not common. Attached is a document showing the Serial Number locations on an 8RC-prefix tractor. Take a good look around the machine for them.
Thanks for the info. Nige if I can get down to look at it I'll check for the other serial #'s. The dozer has a winch also. I'll add a few pics. Like I say it looks rough.
If you find the engine plate it should be stamped with the Serial Number 12Z47620, Arrgt # 6I-2109. BTW the tracks on that machine are either 46 or 47 links. None of the photos are clear enough to accurately count them.
The tracks I found will save me around $3,500 so wether they'll fit or not plays allot into my decision. This dozer will be used on a ranch for fence clearing so appearance isn't a big deal.
hey, I got to know a few things about D5H´s during the long walk searching for one... Something rather strange with that one is the track frames, wich apear(are) to be LGP frames... but machines with those frames should be 1DD part nr , unless Nige provides a resonable explanation. A machine serial nr 8RC should be a standard track thing, lower, narrower, and shorter frames. The plate beeing german for a thing in US is quite dubious to say the least... But if u´re fine with the lenght, just be aware that LGP machines are 48 or 49 links, so count them before have a surprise. the rest good luck with it
After a bit more digging. This tractor was originally built with 37-link track goups, and by implication standard track frames. Obviously at some point in its life someone has installed LGP frames and the corresponding longer track groups. The tractor was originally built at the Cat plant in France to be sold into Germany. See Post #4 above. Used machines get shipped all over the world these days so it's not entirely surprising to find it appear in the US.
Rough? I've seen way worse. Those tracks etc have lots of life left. Place I worked at those would almost be new to us. (laugh)
It'll be fine for my use. I say it's rough to ward of any nay sayers. I've gotten the third degree on here in the past lol. The owner says undercarriage is fine for private use but needs replaced for commercial use. I need to look at it in person to get a good idea.
Most of the 4 & 5 H machines I find are LGPs. I'm wanting a standard track machine so this one is appealing to me. Is there any way to tell by looking or measuring which frames it has or just count the links? Also does anyone have any idea what that winch would be worth. They said it works fine but I don't have a use for it.
Dozer would probably balance a lot nicer if you could leave winch on….
It looks like the left track adjuster is extended quite a bit more than the right side. Either the left chain is stretched quite a bit more than the right or they have taken a link out of the right side. Make sure and count both sides. D6H LGP's have 8 roller track frames, D6H XL's have 7 roller track frames and the standard D6H's have 6 roller frames. If the D5H's follow the same rule of thumb that would be one way to tell. As said before the machine in the pics looks to have LGP track frames.
After doing some searching this dozer definitely has LGP track frames. This is why I've had so many issues figuring out if the tracks I found will fit and when pricing new undercarriage parts. Thanks for noticing. Guessing the LGP track frames will be fine on a standard frame dozer? I'm amazed at what you guys can find from a few pics. We are planning on driving down to see it Sunday. I'll report back what I find. He did say it has a leaking final drive seal, hopefully that won't be too hard to fix.
Well, we are just used to be around stuff, 2 or 3 things u can look for... that i loved to know before deciding. 1-Engine, that tractor should have a 3304 direct injected engine 120HP, and not anything alike, just cause 3304´s also came as precups and in 90HP flavour for the D4´and other road going flavours... nothing wrong with them u just need whats suposed to be there, Nige can help with ID the 3304 DI 120HP. The rest is like any other, watch blow by, smoke colour cold, aceleration and miss fire ... smoke under load, its turbocharged it should not have black smoke .... 2- This type of tractor use to show leakeage on the TXM clutch packs, nothing wrong with it... just if leakeage is too much machine will not loose brakes ... and then does start to have issues tracking and shutling... How u acertain that? work it until TXM oil goes bang 100º that should not be hard in 2h in summer pushing. Finals use to be bullet proff, the seal is easy replaceable as long as the bearings are fine. A damaged bearing can easily eat away its seat... don´t know how to check play in those without remove tracks. 3- Undercarriage in this ones is as good as the "cannons" are.... people call cannons but i don´t know any other name, if they´re done frames are worn too, pry bar and check trueness and up and down play, if they are too bad u can see the idler up and down when tracking. (pretty sure they have play,) Pry bar and check 4 idlers for play and track rolers play should not be visible, that cost money real money. Condition on this maters determines price in the end , price of repairs!!! Good Luck
I agree with Mquinista in that the 1DD series D5’s were fitted with long lgp trackframes. 8RC series are the shorter std version. I believe the series 2 1DD series also had a beefed up transmission which I don’t think was used on the 8RC model. In short,looks like you’re looking at an 8RC with weaker tranny that’s been fitted with big 1DD trackframes.This may cause you to find out any weak spots in your tranny. Don’t buy those cheap DCR track chains until you know exactly that they’ll fit.
The transmission change was made from 1DD4000-Up. However 8RC-prefix machines with S/N above 4000 have the same Part Number of transmission (3BX-prefix) as the higher S/N 1DD tractors.
Thanks Nige,so they upgraded the later 8RC transmissions around the same time if I’m reading that right?
It would appear so. @Mquinista has a 1DD-prefix machine with S/N around 6500 that has the updated transmission. The transmission S/N in his tractor and in the OP's tractor (8RC05789) are both 3BX-prefix which implies they are identical. Certainly on 1DD tractors the transmission changed at S/N 4000.
From what i found in other parts of 1DD tractors, when series II came, a lot off modifications were standardized, its very often found 8RC and 1DD´s mentioned for same part numbers. Regarding the TXM in particular it certainly have some differences as speed´s do not mach those of a 8RC, but i do not know if they made that internally in TXM or the in the diferential, (where it usually is), as finals do share same part numbers even in sprocket segments. When i was after a tractor i wanted one untouched, irespective of condition, the plan was to still be able to fix it without major changes... But in a 30Year Old iron is not an easy task, i ended up getting one with a very good engine and a fucked up TXM and HYD implement system. Of course had a lot of mickey mouse add ons but still OEM fixable. Something this one above aparently is not, only the buyer can say if its good for him....
How did you get that word to go, you’re my hero. lol i agree on the assessment of hands on valuation.
I wonder if there is anyway the longer LGP tracks are part of the "Fine Grading Group" Nige said the tractor was equipped with? If I had my choice I'd go with the XL track length. One thing I've noticed since finding out about the differences in the LGP is allot of these used dozers are labeled wrong. On LGPs I always just looked for the really wide pads but that's not always the case.
Guess what.? It is........!! So that explains that mystery. It was not originally built with a winch BTW.
Some of those 1DD series had an extra block of sorts to extend the track to 48 links.Made the cannon look well out even on new complete undercarriage. Made for a very well balanced grading tractor though
Went and looked at the dozer today. He said it his father had bought it 17 yrs ago and he got it when his Dad passed a few years back. Apparently it hasn't been used much in the last 5 or so years. It definitely looked like a ranch dozer that needed pressure washed and the small leaks fixed. He had it in an odd spot where I couldn't get out and operate it but was able to see what I needed for the price. The undercarriage was shot and needs replaced. The pads still had about an inch tread left so I'd reuse them. I wasn't surprised by this at all. The chains said Cat xxxxx on them so they could have been original? The engine seemed to run good with no smoke or blowby. Everything else seemed tighter than I expected as did the overall condition. Now for the issue I'm not sure about. The transmission acted funny in first gear. Second and third were both strong but first wouldn't always take in forward or reverse. You could jiggle the shifter or run it from nuetral to first a time or two and first was fine. He said it had done this as long as he could remember. Any ideas? The winch on the back worked and looked like it belonged on a bigger dozer. I definitely wouldn't need it so would probably sell it. It did have the LGP track frames with 20" pads and a 72" gauge width. Going to think on this one a few days.
It could be nothing more than wear in the transmission linkage joints, or maybe they need lubricating. It could even be an air leak in the pump suction side. On the other hand it could be a worn first speed clutch that requires transmission removal to fix it, in itself not a bad job. As with the worn undercarriage the transmission issue is a bargaining chip. Budget on a transmission repair/overhaul when you make an offer on it and if it costs you any less than that you're ahead.
I had similar problem few years ago Nige with my D5H 1DD. Struggled to engage first gear sometimes.Over a period of months I replaced every little linkage on the transmission doing one or two at a time when ever I went to collect the timesheets. Got the quadrant set just right and it still gave bother engaging forward .It would push very well all day long nice and clean and kept it at the back of my mind. One day,Tony was at a D8 of mine on the same site and I asked him to take a look. Told me clutch plates were worn out!. I couldn’t believe it as it was working so well,but he was right as allways. The following weekend,he took the tranny home with him and did the clutch plates over the weekend. Wasn’t expensive and the rest of the tranny was too good to go tearing into. It’s since put nearly 4000 hours on it since then with the lad I sold it to 9 years ago!! I know this because he’s considering trading it back into me for a newer D6N that’s looking for a home.
Thanks Nicky. as I said the transmission issue simply becomes a bargaining chip on the purchase price. Anyway pulling a transmission in something as small as a D5H is a pretty simple job.
Especially if you are selling the winch
I also found a 2005 D5N that is in really good shape, the undercarriage is worn but definitely usable for what we need. I'd have about the same money in it as I would the older dozer with a new undercarriage and the cab and A/C fixed. Are the transmissions similar in these dozers as far as ease of repair? I'm figuring spending 15k easy on replacing the undercarriage and getting the cab glass and AC back together on the old dozer before we find out about the transmission. The newer dozer would eventually need chains and sprockets but not all new rollers.
The D5N is a different machine alltogether as it’s considerably smaller than the D5H. Think D4H as a comparison. I think they are a dry liner engine in them too
You are correct. Here are the specs of both tractors for comparison. IMO the 3304 in the D5H is a far better engine than the 3126B in the D5N. Compared to a D5H XL (which is what I think the 8RC machine you are looking at effectively is) or an LGP the D5N is a significantly lighter tractor.
Thanks for the info. I'm not at all familiar with these smaller high track models other than seeing them in passing. This explains why the D5H I went and looked at seemed so much bigger than I expected. I'm wanting something bigger than a D5C or G but smaller than a D6H or R. A comparison size wise would be a Case 1150 or Deere 700J. I'll do a little more research today. The D5N I found looks really clean and has 7,100 hrs. I'm not to sure I want any electronics on a dozer but also know you can't stay in the dark forever. The D5N money wise seems like the better buy but the older dozers seem to just run forever if maintained. I'd be at around $40k in either machine with a good undercarriage and cab with working A/C.
JS430. I’ve just sold a D6N LGP with 6 way blade and ripper. Was a 2007 model with 15000 hours. Nice machine,tracks probably 80% worn and no component history. Sold at £41k gbp. That gives you an idea what they are going for in the UK. The D6N is very similar in size to my old D5H
@nicky 68a interesting on the price, when converted to US that's about what D6Ns go for here. Dozers are priced all over the place. I've looked at D5Ns from the low $30's up to $100k. The H machines are from $20-40k. Seems like they have a base price + undercarriage life. I'm looking at machines that need a little work so they are on the low end. I don't mind putting the time and effort in on one but hate to get upside down on a machine that's for personal use.
Thought I'd update this. I ended up buying the 2005 D5N today. The H model was a decent deal but most everything on it needed some attention. I'm already stretched then with the day job and the cattle deal and wasn't sure I would ever fit all the repairs in. I bought the D5N without looking at it since it was such a long drive, hopefully it'll be as advertised. Bought it through a Cat dealer going of their inspection. It needs chains and sprockets pretty soon but that's something I can handle pretty easy. It should be here next Tuesday. Thanks to everyone for taking time to reply and the info Nige gave was great. Serial # on the N model is AGG01763.
I hope you don't end up regretting it and that your purchase ends up being able to do the job you want it to.
Its much smaller... It should be labeled D4 , hope u have great success with it.
JS430, I bought a D5N XL 18 months ago for a chap.Ideally a D5H or D6N was needed full lgp,but no D5H’s were available that looked good.D6N’s broke the budget. Found a very nice D5N that had been well looked after,so a compromise was made and the tractor purchased. Price was £24k with good undercarriage. I keep a distant eye on the tractor and he’s very happy with it. It’s used to keep a tip tidy as and when needed.It was completely serviced after running it for 3 days and has given no more problems other than a couple of blade hoses. Yes,it could do with being abit bigger,and yes it would benefit from wider full lgp pads,but he’s very happy with it and simply chooses the dry days to level the tip area up. You’ll make your D5N work to suit your requirements and you’ll probably come to like it.
I think this size will be fine for us. The D5H was actually a little bigger than we wanted. I guess it was the first D5H I had seen and just assumed the 4H, 5H,M, and N were all the same size. We cleared over 200 acres with the Case 850G we had and put about 1,000 hrs on it. We just need a small dozer to clean up a few fences and maintain ditches and such. Most of the trees we need cleared out push fairly easy.