To reiterate/summarize my machine lost all speeds forward and reverse couple weeks ago. P1 and P2 showed no pressure. Removed finals pushed on trailer and got it rolled into shop. Took back cover back off trans today. Don't see any oil leaking anywhere other than where Torque converter returns to main case way in front. A guy would think with cover off that has all the taps for pressure checking starting the machine would be a disaster but it don't spit any oil out besides when i took it out of "park" and raised rpm some it spit some out the hole circled in red. Took the priority valve apart today, completely disassembled appears perfect. Trans oil filter is clean, rolled engine over with throttle off and oil feeds through filter housing and priority valve housing with valve out. Took oil line off the trans clutch control section of pump and just rolling the engine over it spits oil out. I don't think that really gives me a good indication of if the pump is good or not tho but just thought id check. What else can i do? Just take the pump off? Also the inlets i circled in blue is that where that main trans clutch control section of pump feeds then? thank you all
Did you clean the strainer do you have pressure to your steering clutches
just changed the powertrain oil 10 hour ago and the cleaned strainer then. Im not sure how to get a pressure reading at steering clutches will check service manual
I suggest that you should have a good read of the system operation document to understand how the steering and brakes get priority over the transmission when it comes to the oil supply.
i have done quite a bit of reading in the service books. i know the priority valve feeds the brakes and steering first. i just can't tell if the flows I'm detecting are just being fed from section b of the pump through the filter housing and back to a connection that feeds back through section A or if section A is actually pumping. thanks !
IIRC Mark250 posted a photo of a blank plate that could be used to isolate the brakes/steering oil supply to help diagnose the powertrain. It could have been on a thread related to a D5H I’m not sure.
i will look thank you!
One other question when looking at transmission pressure chart it specifys p1 and p2 pressures to be checked with “load piston plug installed” what is that and is that maybe something I’m missing ?
The load piston plug is installed by default (it is part of the control valve). It is only for any test requiring the load piston plug to be removed that you have to be aware of. Here's a link to the thread. It was a D4H with different symptoms but the principle is the same. You can isolate the brake/steering systems in order to determine whether or not leakage there is causing problems in the transmission. HeavyEquipmentForums
Thanks!
Checked pressure at steering/brake control valve. Nothing. Checked pressure at filter head had about 35-50psi at mid idle. Oil won’t even run out p1-p2 ports just open running which I assume is because priority valve doesn’t have enough pressure to open up to them.
looking at thread on the D4H problems. My back plate on the trans does not have the resonator he found to be a problem... ?
The reason I linked the D4H thread was nothing to do with the symptoms (totally different to yours) and everything to do with how to fabricate and use a blanking plate to close the oil supply to the steering/brake in order to eliminate that part of the system for diagnostic purposes.
right i understand. just was curious if i was missing that piece
In post #30 on Page 2 of that link Mark250 describes in great detail how to make that blank plate. If you are losing pressure somewhere it might be worth a try to do that on your tractor in order to completely eliminate the brake & steering systems as a potential source of leakage.
Took pump off today, disassembled. Appears perfect. Took pump drive assembly out of torque converter case also appears excellent. Pump to main case suction hose is perfect. I might slap that back on and try the block off plate I guess! One question, could I take the priority valve spool right out and see if I get some flow to trans control?
I’m starting to think that tranny is coming out.No scientific reason,just gut feeling unfortunately
I ran into this awhile back. To check trans pressure you need to tap into the steering valve. The test port on the filter housing is lub pressure only. I sounds like you have my problem. A broke line between priority valve and steering valve.
Ok I have checked the pressure tap at steering and brake control valve and had no pressure. Would those lines you picture in the housing be on top or at front side of machine? I assume front since priority valve is there
They are inside the rear case of the machine and it requires the transmission to be removed to gain access to them.
Right! I’m going to try to push some air through the feed for priority valve and see if I can hear anything
I don't know if you can get anything like a borescope in through the hole made by removing the rear access cover for the transmission (Post #1), but the tubes in the case are located to the left side of the transmission as indicated by the arrow. See Post #32 in the thread I linked on Page 1 for the photos of the inside and to give you an idea of the location.
I found a broken line inside just like your talking about. Just used a flashlight and blew some air through hose. Going to pull the trans soon. I assume to replace the hard line I need to pull filter manifold and steer/clutch control manifold off front of case or how are these hard lines connected? Thanks everyone !
Oh no, you are not going to get away as easy as that...... 1. The tubes are not found in any Parts Manual and getting numbers for them are extremely difficult. Even dealers have been known to struggle. 2. The tubes are installed in the case by inserting the end of the tube in the bore in the casting then expanding the end of the tube using a tool known as a tube expander (funny that) to swage the tube in place and so prevent the installed tube leaking. 3. Some tubes also have a sleeve installed in the rear case inside which the tube is installed. Others just install directly into a machined bore in the case casting. 3. Each different diameter of tube requires a different tube expander tool. I can see a range of Part Numbers for different tube diameters from 3/4" right up to 2½" in diameter. Having said all that, most people resort to some type of welding to repair cracked tubes in the rear case. I've seen a procedure involving silver soldering also. The thing is that those tubes vibrate quite a lot and whatever repair process is used it has to be capable of standing up to a fair amount of vibration without re-cracking. Check your PMs BTW.
Ya I had looked through book and couldn’t find them lines ! Wondered about availability. Thank you very much. I will get trans out and see exactly how/where it broke
Just cross your fingers that the crack in the tube isn't right next to the case casting or worse still extends inside the bore in the case. What diameter are those tubes anyway.? ¾" or 1"
Nige is rite. Call cat. Tool has to be ordered in and installed by cat. Tube is only 70 dollars or so. The one I had installed broke about 4 months later. Didn’t get a picture but it can go in two ways. Put it in opposite of how the picture is and weld a bracket on and put a rubber lined strap around it for vibration. Nige should had the part number in his messages from me. It’s a 8g number for the tube. Remove filter housing and steering valve and trans before cat gets there.
Tubes will be in frames section in sis and a little difficult to find
Number 11 I believe. Sorry I did find some pictures
Awesome! This helps so much. How does a guy remove inner axle?
Got trans out. Line is broken off within hole on its exit to brake/clutch valve
In that case you might be better to have the dealer install the correct Part Number of tube for you using an expander tool. Any attempt at welding the cracked tube inside the bore in the case is likely to shrink the tube when the weld cools and make it loose in the bore, so it would still leak. So you'd be out of the proverbial frying pan into the fire.
Those tubes are paper thin. It’s a fair amount of work for all Of this not to mention where it will break down a again. I would contact cat and get the swedgeing tool on the way. The last one I did the tool took about a week to arrive. You may have to get the tc department involved to help the parts and service departments
ill be calling them in the morning. Thank you all!
Part Numbers for those tubes are going to depend on machine Serial Number. I don't ever recall you posting yours......... EDIT: Found it in another post - 1DD1003. So for that S/N the tubes are not shown in the illustration of the 6Y-5313 Case & Frame As. In another resource (that does not have illustrations) the tubes all appear to be the same Part Numbers as those listed for the higher Serial Number machines 1DD4000-Up. There are 10 Part Numbers of tubes ranging from 8G-0311 to 8G-0320, exactly the same as those in the illustration MBar posted above.
I believe its pipe 11 in the photo
got the pipe ordered my dealer is getting in contact with cat for the tool. they want me to haul it in of course
With the axle shafts pulled it's towable - but no brakes......!! Make sure that the necessary sleeves are ordered at the same time as the tube. I get the impresison that each end of every tube in that rear end has a sleeve, it's just a matter of figuring out which Part Number it is. How about a photo looking into the back of the case to illustrate the failed tube.?
you can make a tool a rod with a 5/8 bolt welded to it insert rod and screw it in to axle
Your dealer must be a joke. It’s a 30 minute job with basic hand tools to put the tube in. It would take longer to chain it down on a trailer.
I normally reach in through the rear cover and slide the axle to where I can get to it. But I’m a small guy
They've probably never done it before so want to turn the tube installation into a dealer service personnel training exercise......